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Dynasty Maker [3496]
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Was Jesus sinless?
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Apr 18, 2025, 7:46 PM
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If so why did get baptized?
Mark 1:4, 9
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
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Top TigerNet [32158]
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Re: Was Jesus sinless?
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Apr 18, 2025, 8:08 PM
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As always, it depends on who you ask...
"Does Peter in Acts 2:38 say that forgiveness of sins is received when one is baptized? This verse has been vigorously debated within Christianity since the time of the Protestant Reformation.
The majority view throughout history, including that of the reformer Martin Luther, is that baptism is the point at which one receives forgiveness of sins.
Beginning primarily with Huldrych Zwingli, the Swiss reformer, there arose a large segment of Protestantism that continues to argue that baptism, while maybe important, does not effect forgiveness of sins and is therefore not necessary for salvation."
Similarly, the Jews saw baptism differently in their time. It seems to have been a 'common' man's version of Jewish priest purification rituals. So to them it was a step on the way to forgiveness, but not forgiveness.
It's another case in the Bible, or any religious text of "Am I understanding now, the way they understood then?"
Context and social change matters.
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Top TigerNet [30354]
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Baptism is a public profession of your faith ... it is not a requirement
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Apr 18, 2025, 8:14 PM
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I would point to the thief on the cross to support this.
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Dynasty Maker [3496]
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Re: Was Jesus sinless?
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Apr 18, 2025, 8:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Was Jesus sinless? ] |
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“ there arose a large segment of Protestantism that continues to argue that baptism, while maybe important, does not effect forgiveness of sins and is therefore not necessary for salvation."
That’s exactly what I was taught growing up, and this may be the first time I’ve noticed that particular view may not jive with what John the Baptist taught.
“preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.”
The wording there seems to indicate that the act of baptism is what washes away one’s sins.
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Top TigerNet [32158]
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Re: Was Jesus sinless?
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Apr 18, 2025, 8:56 PM
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The phrasing is tricky, but I think it's meant to be read as...
preaching a "baptism of repentance" for the [future] forgiveness of sins.”
That seems to be the meaning based on the context. JTB was (or had been) a Jew, and he didn't seem to be doing anything that pixxed the priest class off, so I assume he was more or less in line with Jewish ideas.
If he said he was forgiving sin, or even channeling God, he would have been in the same pot of hot water Jesus found himself in. And might have died before he got his head lopped off.
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Top TigerNet [30354]
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Of course ...
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Apr 18, 2025, 8:18 PM
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2 Corinthians 5:21
1 Peter 2:22
Hebrews 4:15
1 John 3:5
Every reference in the old Testament regarding the spotless Lamb.
Message was edited by: clemchem®
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Dynasty Maker [3496]
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Re: Of course ...
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Apr 18, 2025, 8:42 PM
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Yes I know there are places in the New Testament that claim Jesus was sinless. I’ll just point out 3 of those 4 passages were from a man who never knew the historical Jesus.
The question is, why did Jesus feel the need to go to John to be baptized?
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Top TigerNet [32158]
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Re: Of course ...
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Apr 18, 2025, 9:08 PM
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That's actually the real question.
Jesus seemed to think it was part of a bigger plan. There WAS a bigger plan, but it has nothing to do with baptism, that I know, at least in the Jewish tradition.
So, either Jesus, as God, knew the secret plan, OR, Jesus interpreted JTB as a part of the plan.
The plan included tip-offs to the coming messiah. That's why the priests specifically ask JTB
Are you the prophet?
Are you Elijah?
Are you the Messiah?
Curiously, Jesus says JTB WAS Elijiah, though John himself said he was not.
My question is "What was the theological relationship between Jesus and JTB?
Was JTB simply a messenger announcing the arrival of Jesus? Or was he a mentor to, or inspiration for, Jesus.
Welcome to faith...
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CU Medallion [20157]
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"Permit it to be so, to fulfill all Righteousness"
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Apr 18, 2025, 10:42 PM
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If you understood the sacrificial system from the OT you would have a glimpse of what that means.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101840]
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