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Orange Blooded [3166]
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(Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 2:18 PM
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After the past 3-4 years, I believe Clemson is a really REALLY "good" program on the verge of being a GREAT program. With the departure of Winston from FSU, and with the rise of D Wat at Clemson, I believe that winnable games against FSU, Louisville, GT, and S Car are all that stand between us and a very real possibility of making it to the national championship next season. If Watson can provide the boost to make up for a year of "retooling" the offensive line, and the talent in our front seven on defense (that has been waiting its turn) lives up to expectations, I really believe (with the schedule and state of other teams) that next year will be one of our best shots to run the table.
That being said- if our goal is TRULY a national championship, and not 8-10 win seasons against an ACC that doesn't have more than a few POWER programs, then we need to run our program the same way that national championship contenders run their programs. My point is this- Would Alabama, Texas, Florida, Notre Dame, or Southern Cal hire Jeff Scott as their offensive coordinator? (or anyone that has absolutely zero experience doing that job?) Don't get me wrong- Chad Morris has no head coaching experience on a college level, and he was a great hire for SMU... but WE'RE NOT SMU. We're a good enough program that we should be hiring PROVEN TALENT. People who have been there, done that, and we don't have to guess how good they can be, because we have seen them do it on the big stage. I love Jeff Scott as a recruiting coordinator. I loved Billy Napier as a recruiting coordinator as well. Did we do Billy a "favor" by thrusting him into the role of an OC at a big time school in a power 5 conference with no experience? We didn't want to lose his recruiting, so we gave him the promotion to keep him around, and we lost him anyway- his recruiting, as well as 2 season of offensive production and a DISMAL season as a result- one that nearly got Dabo fired...
I actually do like Jeff Scott in the role he is currently playing. If he wants a raise, I'd be the first to give it to him after the job he did with the recruiting class. I'm sorry, but if Jeff wants to be a power 5 OC, he needs to go be an OC at a mid level school and prove himself. If he thinks he's outgrown the role he is currently in at Clemson (which he hasn't been doing very long), I think he should go out, test the waters, and find someone who wants to promote him to OC, b/c I guarantee you it won't be a prominent power 5 program outside of Clemson, SC. We need to hire someone who is proven, not play the guessing game. We're too good for that. If we want to win in the big leagues, we've got to stop playing bush league politics and giving jobs to people b/c we're friends with their daddy or because of their "personalities and friendships". Especially jobs that are THIS crucial to the success of the team. It's not like Dabo is Spurrier and he can just hire his son as an OC because he's really the mind behind the scheme/play calling... Our head coach is a CEO and our OC will have to be the brains and the leader of our offense. This could be a VERY hard lesson for Dabo and Jeff if this mistake is made... I just hope Dabo learned his lesson the first time with Billy... but even if he did, forces above his head may be pulling the strings here. This is the type of decision that will really show where we're headed as a program though- whether politics and the buddy system are more important, or whether we're ready to take the next step and demand more as a program and start making professional hires instead of playing good ole boy politics.
Based on the fact that T-Net is already running support ads for why Scott is the right decision and not even listing candidates, I think I already have my answer...
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110%er [9143]
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I think you make good points - if you notice........
Dec 2, 2014, 2:30 PM
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in most cases national championship caliber program go have truly proven people (not always - of course there are exceptions). But to go into an OC job having never been one is a major step.
Don't say it - I know Dabo was made HC and he had never been a coordinator much less a HC at a smaller school. But time will tell if Dabo has what it takes to get us to the top (that's another discussion for another time).
It's like with Venables - we probably could have promoted someone into the DC's job but Dabo went to Oklahoma to get Venables who's done a strong job.
Who knows about Scott? He could be great considering he learned behind Morris but then he could be like Bobo at Georgia who's had several rocky years as their OC.
I have to hope that Dabo will do what is really necessary for the program, whatever he decides that is.
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110%er [5915]
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Re: I think you make good points - if you notice........
Dec 2, 2014, 2:55 PM
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The defense was broken and Dabo went outside and found a good one.
Four years ago, our offense was broken and Dabo went outside and found someone to fix it.
I don't think our offense is broken now, maybe Jeff Scott has learned enough to go with him.
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Orange Blooded [4111]
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He has also been in the system w/ Chad and knows the players***
Dec 2, 2014, 3:02 PM
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CU Guru [1950]
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Let's see:
Dec 2, 2014, 3:07 PM
[ in reply to I think you make good points - if you notice........ ] |
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#2 Oregon- OC Scott Frost (never been an OC elsewhere) #2 Oregon- DC Don Pellum (never been a DC elsewhere) #3 FSU- DC Charles Kelly (first time being a DC at FBS-level...has been an FCS DC) #4 TCU- OC Jarrett Anderson (never been an OC elsewhere)
That's just from what will be this week's 4 playoff teams. Half of the coordinators from the playoffs will have never been a coordinator anywhere else at the FBS level.
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CU Guru [1950]
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Re: Let's see:
Dec 2, 2014, 3:10 PM
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scratch that TCU obviously has Doug Meachem this year as OC (who was OC at Houston last year)....you can't trust Wikipedia...
So 3/8 coordinators from this week's top-4 fit the criteria.
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CU Guru [1950]
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Re: Let's see:
Dec 2, 2014, 3:12 PM
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Kirby Smart of Alabama fits as well though....so there's the 4 of 8.
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110%er [8681]
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Re: Let's see:
Dec 2, 2014, 6:31 PM
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Pruitt was also a DB coach before becoming a dc at fsu
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CU Guru [1857]
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Would you agree that....
Dec 2, 2014, 2:32 PM
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we are that REALLY good on the verge of great team because of our coaching staff? Should we get rid of the young and unproven HC that we hired? I say that sarcastically, and to be honest, it's not even a good comparison of the level of experience prior to a promotion between Jeff Scott and Dabo Swinney. I say we let this GREAT HC make the decision, and see where it leads us. He wants to be in that NC playoff just as much if not more than you.
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110%er [7176]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 2:33 PM
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you go get the best you can afford
thought HC already learned this lesson
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All-Conference [445]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 2:41 PM
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The last OC we hired was 1 year out of coaching high school football, not a bad hire. I say forget it. Let the people making the big bucks make that decision and then hold them accountable. Of course that could change if you lay your credentials on the table and prove you are better qualified to make the call.
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110%er [7176]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 2:45 PM
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we are in a situation contract wise where we can't hold him accountable
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Orange Blooded [3532]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 2:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long) ] |
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DW4,Mike Williams,'Tay Scott, Wayne Gallman and others, will make Jeff Scott one of the best OC's in tha' country !!!!!___________just like Sammy,Nuk,& Bryant,made him one of the best WR coaches !!!!***_______________Let us know your pick, soon Dabo and end all this chatter ****
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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In that case, let me be the OC
Dec 2, 2014, 2:51 PM
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and I'll be one of the best OC in tha' country !!!!!__________
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All-TigerNet [14923]
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While I'm not sold on Scott as OC, I don't think
Dec 2, 2014, 2:50 PM
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the fact that those programs ostensibly wouldn't promote someone within for a coordinator position or the fact that Scott "doesn't have any experience" are good reasons not to hire someone.
If you recall A LOT of people were vehemently opposed to Chad Morris and Dabo being hired for exactly those reasons "no experience"--Dabo was obviously a position coach and Chad had practically no CFB experience.
You roll the dice anytime you hire someone. A proven commodity can be a flop just as easily as a home run (Rodriguez at Michigan, Hawkins at Colorado, Holtz at USuCk). And vice-versa (Chad Morris). Experience or lack thereof alone is not a great reason to hire someone.
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Orange Blooded [3430]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 2:57 PM
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Agreed 100%. The main problem I have with Scott is the fact that we have Deshaun Watson. It's such a large gamble. If he comes in and is a second Billy Napier, we may have wasted the most talented quarterback Clemson has ever had.
Is that a risk we're willing to take?
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110%er [6694]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 3:12 PM
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On the other side of that, with Scott Watson will still know the system inside and out (because it will be the same terminology, reads, etc.) and will just stay in stride.
If you bring in someone new sometimes the players don't react well to that and that could negatively affect Watson.
Kind of depends on how he handles it.
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Legend [18629]
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Your basic premise is flawed ... "proven" is a debatable
Dec 2, 2014, 3:04 PM
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concept and no guarantee of similar performance in another situation. Many cases of "unproven" working exceptionally well.
Thare are cases that support "proven" and "unproven".
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Associate AD [838]
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Remeber Kevin Steele?
Dec 2, 2014, 3:06 PM
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The assumption is that the best coach is the one that is not currently on the staff and comes with lots of experience. That is not always the case.
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CU Guru [1263]
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Dabo was not a proven head coach...
Dec 2, 2014, 3:06 PM
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...it's worked so far.
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Orange Blooded [4903]
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Better the devil you know. I would agree if we were in a
Dec 2, 2014, 3:16 PM
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bad position like we were with defense before BV. However, Scott has studied under CM and been successful in every facet of his career. I would rather take someone that knows our system, players and culture. "Proven" OC and other coaches have ways of failing.
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Orange Blooded [3037]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 3:31 PM
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I totally agree your opinion is unpopular. That is about all I agree with from your post
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All-American [551]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 3:35 PM
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Chad Morris had no REAL OC experience except for a year at Tulsa, hardly a prime resume point for the job at Clemson. I'd say Chad was a great hire at Clemson just like he is as HC at SMU. Your logic seems more about "Hey, we already pay the most for an OC, lets go hire the best and hope for the best". Give some examples of who you think fits your requirements and then we can debate what they have over Scott, that's all I'm saying!
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Orange Blooded [4367]
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You hire the best person for the job, period.
Dec 2, 2014, 3:49 PM
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However, in many cases, you identify that person based on potential if you think that person has a high ceiling, and believe that that person will develop quickly in the role.
Just because someone doesn't have proven experience doesn't mean they are not the best fit for the job. Other factors to consider would be continuity within the program and the best hire for the next few years, not just for next year.
I think we can all say with very little stretch that Jeff Scott will be head coach someday. He is more than proven as a recruiter and as a position coach, and has head coaching lineage and NC coordinator in his DNA. It would be hard to find anyone in the country with a higher ceiling than Coach Scott.
Add to that the weapons that he would have at his disposal, which will allow him to make some mistakes (which Dabo will quickly correct if necessary), and it starts to look like a no brainer to me.
I would disagree with Dabo hiring Coach Scott without at least an informal canvassing of other available candidates, but I have no issue with him hiring Coach Scott if he feels that is the right decision. He has learned his lesson with Napier, and is highly motivated to win an NC. No one has more at stake on this hire than Coach Swinney.
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Orange Blooded [3166]
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well...
Dec 2, 2014, 5:47 PM
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that answers that...
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Oculus Spirit [95616]
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This is a slap in Dabo Swinney's face.
Dec 2, 2014, 6:27 PM
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Has he proven himself as a HC? Has he proven he's capable of selecting talented coordinators? Has he proven he's capable of finding and landing talented players?
Now he can't promote one of Clemson's faithful because 'we need a proven coordinator?' Gimme a break.
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All-American [570]
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Its all about the talent you recruit...
Dec 2, 2014, 6:37 PM
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Look at Artavis this last weekend...I mean...come on man. Sammy Watkins....Nuk Hopkins.......CJ Spiller. We've had success because yes...of decent playcalling, but man, I think its because we have playmakers and we have recruited top athletes...Guess what...JS is a heck of a recruiter... If he calls decent plays and keeps in check during the game...I think Dabo is gonna show you all its about character when it comes to coaching.....and it comes to top recruiting when it comes to taking the team to the top. We are on our way. Clemson is coming - SA
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Varsity [247]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 2, 2014, 12:43 PM
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You are not all in. Find another team.
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All-In [25721]
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I understand your points, HFT, but we have to remember
Dec 3, 2014, 7:10 AM
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how Dabo was hired and how that may affect his thinking.
While some of us may know a good bit about Jeff and/or Tony, the fact remains that few, if any of us, know as much about them as our HC. I know that I don't.
Therefore, I will support the decision, wishing both Jeff and Tony great success. We'll get to see them in action soon enough.
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110%er [5490]
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Re: (Unpopular) Thoughts with regard to the OC hire (long)
Dec 3, 2014, 7:52 AM
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So what you are really saying is you know more than the head coach! You would run around throwing money at guys and risk losing Jeff to SMU when in reality you have no clue.
I love how some of you THINK you know more than Dabo LMAO he's won more games than anyone since Danny. When are you going to start trusting that our head coach is one of the best in the whole d@mn country.
The man knows football just like you know fries so get behind him or get WAY behind.
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All-In [49899]
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The points are well-taken but at the base, flawed
Dec 3, 2014, 8:03 AM
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The supposition is that by stepping outside Clemson's program we could automatically improve the product.
In 2010, that was an obvious requirement on offense. After 2011, that was an obvious requirement on defense.
I would counter that neither would be obvious now. Both offense and defense are solid and have an excellent identity. Rather than stepping outside the program, I would contend that if the staff can produce a person to continue that identity, that person would be a better choice than an outside face that would need to learn the nuances.
Dabo feels he has the staffing to do so ... and since it's his multi-million $$ job on the line, I respect his decision.
In addition, were we to step outside and pull in another hot-shot OC (which I have no doubt we could do) what is preventing us from stepping on this carousel again in a couple of years?
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CU Guru [1150]
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Re: The points are well-taken but at the base, flawed
Dec 3, 2014, 8:10 AM
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Point reverend. Might i add, i like what hood said , Scott and Eliot are the types to, if successful, have long loyal careers at clemson.
Worst case scenario i see: us only winning 8 games, we move Scott and Elliot back to position coaches and bring in a big proven name
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