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Replies: 27
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CU Medallion [20552]
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The Peter Principal
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Dec 31, 2024, 9:57 PM
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IMO, Wes Goodwin is a great example of the Peter Principal; a theory of people being promoted till they reach incompetence.
It is often seen in the military where officers who are successful at personnel management or tactical skills often get promoted to a level where they no longer do what they are good at and are placed into developing strategy, a role for which they are unsuited.
Wes Goodwin obviously had a good tactical mind but was never going to be a strategic leader. Unfortunately it is sometimes impossible to demote somebody to their previous position. We will miss Wes on his former capacity.
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Varsity [127]
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Re: The Peter Principal
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Dec 31, 2024, 10:01 PM
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Well said!
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Ring of Honor [23435]
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Re: The Peter Principal
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Dec 31, 2024, 10:05 PM
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I would argue his strategy (planning) for the game was OK, his in game changes (tactics) were awful.
🤓
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CU Medallion [20552]
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Correct.
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Dec 31, 2024, 10:26 PM
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But I was trying to make the point as simply as I could.
The funny thing about the Peter Principal is that it often prevents people from being placed in a role where they belong. A CEO might not have been a great line manager or Financial officer but has the right natural skills to select key personnel and manage the vision of the company.
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Rival Killer [2945]
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Re: Correct.
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Dec 31, 2024, 10:36 PM
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Not saying this is Dabo, but not not saying it either (he skipped grades).
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Ring of Honor [23435]
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Re: Correct.
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Dec 31, 2024, 10:41 PM
[ in reply to Correct. ] |
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I worked for the gov't for 35 years and saw a lot of the Peter Principle. 🤣
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Game Changer [1627]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Peter Principal is based on successive promotion until you reach
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Dec 31, 2024, 10:24 PM
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Your level of incompetence. Goodwin went from analyst to DC skipping multiple steps of the ladder. He is a great example of friendship nepotism rather than the Peter Principal.
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National Champion [7636]
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Wes is an "in the box" guy. And he will shine once again when he gets back in.
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Dec 31, 2024, 10:42 PM
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I do not believe he will be a solo DC again at the collegiate level. That is ok.
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Valley Protector [1467]
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Re: The Peter Principal
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Dec 31, 2024, 10:42 PM
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Sorry to be the grammar police here, but it’s principle instead of principal. Jut take it with a grade of slaw.
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Game Changer [2005]
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Re: The Peter Principal
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Dec 31, 2024, 11:23 PM
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Work on your spelling. No one on this board wants this type of input from you. Button it!
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Tiger Spirit [9358]
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Re: The Peter Principal
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Jan 1, 2025, 12:49 AM
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Doesn't bother me, I aprecciate proper gramher
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Mascot [22]
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Re: The Peter Principal
Jan 1, 2025, 1:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: The Peter Principal ] |
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WELL, speak for yourself. I am often embarrassed by the spelling, punctuation and other errors that are committed by some who post on this site, particularly when so many claim to be Clemson graduates. So, I hope there are some who care about this sort of stuff.
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Dynasty Maker [3182]
TigerPulse: 62%
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Dabo went off the rails on stupidity after the 2nd natty
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Dec 31, 2024, 11:01 PM
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in terms of hiring coaches. I guess he thought he couldn't do anything wrong at the time.
How do you hire someone with such inexperience as the leader of your defense? He had ZERO experience leading people.
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Clemson Conqueror [11262]
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Re: Dabo went off the rails on stupidity after the 2nd natty
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Dec 31, 2024, 11:13 PM
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He thought he had the key to the Culture of hiring Clemson personnel and/or maintaining very stable coaching. The recruits liked the story and it appeared to work so keep the motion rolling. Dabo has found out that this was not the winning formula so you have to rethink your personnel which is what he is doing. Experience and former success is a lot more important than just having Clemson ties. Good story but don't create wins.
I love Spiller but not as a coach. He should have been able to tell Dabo that Mafah couldn't play. Surely should have had backups more ready than having to pull a WR. Grisham may have redeemed himself this year but jury still out.
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Dynasty Maker [3182]
TigerPulse: 62%
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Re: Dabo went off the rails on stupidity after the 2nd natty
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Dec 31, 2024, 11:49 PM
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I agree in that, you don't want to have a lot of coaching turnover, and he felt Wes would stay 5+ years. But, as a top 5 program at the time, you can't take such a huge risk. I could see if Clemson was a top 25 program trying to climb the ladder, but that wasn't the case.
You have to hire someone proven in that situation. That decision, ended up wasting a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball.
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Offensive Star [317]
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Re: Dabo went off the rails on stupidity after the 2nd natty
Jan 1, 2025, 5:21 AM
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Speaking of coaching turnovers look at Saban, his staff was a revolving door
full of coaches turning over. He always produced a winner, Saban
operated the law of giving and receiving ( some say law of
reciprocity ) very well. He will be known for giving coaches
second and some third chances to resurrect their careers.
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Clemson Conqueror [11772]
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Re: The Peter Principal
Dec 31, 2024, 11:21 PM
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Facts. Good day. I said good day!
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Legend [6672]
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Re: The Peter Principal
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Jan 1, 2025, 12:41 AM
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I think/hope Dabo seeing what an experienced coach like Matt Luke can do with a unit in just a few months has opened his eyes that the friends/family hiring philosophy isn't a great idea moving forward. Being a coach at Clemson is a plum job for alot of people so why we refuse to entertain hiring them so we can hire whichever good old boy was a nice player for us in the past has never made a lick of sense.
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TigerNet Immortal [169272]
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Its most common in the business world,
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Jan 1, 2025, 12:45 AM
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And is worth 15+ points each and every time someone posts it on here because all the goobs who have never heard it before in the grease pit at Midas think it sounds deep and scientific.
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Game Changer [1800]
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Re: Its most common in the business world,
Jan 1, 2025, 5:02 AM
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Agreed and it's painful to watch an engineer thrust from a PM to Principal position. No true leadership, just knowledge and skills to manage a project but not to lead people.
Natural leaders are hard to find.
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Game Changer [1941]
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Re: The Peter Principal
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Jan 1, 2025, 1:17 AM
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I never will understand why Dabo gambled away the dynasty he worked so hard to create.
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Clemson Icon [26874]
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The smartest people are those who recognize their talents
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Jan 1, 2025, 4:49 AM
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and continue to refine and develop them rather than seeking roles for which they really aren't suited.
Mickey Andrews at Florida State comes to mind, as he knew his specialty was defense, so he stayed put under Bobby Bowden. Honestly, I suspected Brent Venables might be overreaching when he accepted the Oklahoma HC job, and told close friends as much. He was in his natural element, using his talents to the max at Clemson, highly successful, greatly feared by opponents and worshipped by the Clemson family. What made me think that was the number of years he was in a DC role...a long, long time for a person standing on the sidelines, so to speak, waiting on a particular HC job to open.
Clemson's reputation after those two national titles afforded the opportunity to bring in most anybody we would have wanted to takeover when Coach B left, and frankly, I wasn't convinced such a key position should have been filled with somebody with on-the-job training. We and the team were used to seeing a raging maniac of a genius on the sidelines...a show in of itself...chomping at the bit to charge the field and tackle somebody! I felt we needed a replacement with that kind of passion at the very least, more preferrably a DC eating buckets of iron ore and sh*tting molten steel railroad spikes on national television. A DC that would put the fear of God into our defense, resulting in sh*t-stained britches every time they missed an assignment. Why? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IN THE HELLLL WINS BALLGAMES, FOR GOD'S SAKE! I like Wes, thank him for his efforts and wish him well. But, he just wasn't the man for what we needed in a DC. Period.
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Game Changer [1800]
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Re: The smartest people are those who recognize their talents
Jan 1, 2025, 4:56 AM
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Yes Sir! 💯 agree!
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Game Changer [1941]
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Orange Blooded [2579]
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OK, I'll bite....
Jan 1, 2025, 10:30 AM
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applies to B. Venables as well?
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All-In [10400]
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Re: The Peter Principal
Jan 1, 2025, 10:54 AM
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Almost every person in a leadership position had to pass through the threshold of individual contributor to management. They are promoted on the basis of job performance in the IC role with the thought they can transition to being a leader. Unfortunately it is not an exact science as the success rate is not great. For example, most thought Jeff Scott would be successful as a HC and no one thought Dabo would win two NC’s at Clemson. Using hindsight to judge if someone should have been promoted as if you knew it would not work out is silly at best.
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All-Pro [772]
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Re: The Peter Principal
Jan 1, 2025, 12:22 PM
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I think it's the opposite. Great at strategy, but trash at coaching what he develops to achieve tactical results.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [99461]
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Your hypothesis depends upon your belief that WG has been fired.
Jan 1, 2025, 1:10 PM
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I'm not sure that is the case. Those calling for Wes' head are assuming that other team's fans, programs and coaches hold the same view of Wes as those here who have dumped on him.
I don't think it's practical to make that assumption. We'll see.
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Replies: 27
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