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Orange Blooded [3624]
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The Homeless Problem
Sep 14, 2022, 10:03 AM
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People always talk about solving the homeless crisis. There is no way to solve that issue and it will only get worse. Its kind of like the war on drugs, its here to stay. On that note, we should clamp down on that southern border in attempt to stem the fentanyl crisis. Anyway, anyone really think we can clean up the homeless problem? If so, how?
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Top TigerNet [28533]
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Re: The Homeless Problem
Sep 14, 2022, 10:10 AM
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The vast majority of the chronically homeless are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol and/or mentally ill. That's the problem you have to solve.
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Oculus Spirit [41658]
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Bring back Bull St and Dorothy Dix
Sep 14, 2022, 10:21 AM
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for the crazy ones
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Ultimate Tiger [35112]
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Our hometown homeless mission, Roof Above, has seen great
Sep 14, 2022, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: The Homeless Problem ] |
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success with its housing-first model of providing housing stability as a foundation for sobriety, whereas the traditional model requires people to get sober first -- which is incredibly hard when you're living outdoors.
https://www.roofabove.org/substance-use-treatment-program-with-housing/![]() Substance Use Treatment Program with Housing SABER Treatment ProgramWe honor the profound worth of each life and believe recovery is possible.Our SABER treatment program, which began in 2006, offers substance use treatment to men experiencing homelessness and struggling with addiction. Abstinence-contingent, rent-free housing is offered for nine months while participating in the program.Program Overview Combines three months of treatment (psychoeducational classes and individual and group therapy) ... Read More
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Tiger Titan [48519]
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Roof Above is a great mission indeed~!***
Sep 14, 2022, 11:10 AM
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Top TigerNet [28533]
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Re: Our hometown homeless mission, Roof Above, has seen great
Sep 14, 2022, 11:13 AM
[ in reply to Our hometown homeless mission, Roof Above, has seen great ] |
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Haven't heard about this. I have done some mentoring with Moore Place. Not ideal living conditions but it beats the streets, and there is no sobriety requirements to stay there. They offer therapy as well. This has had some pretty good success. A roof over their head, intensive therapy, and mentorship seems to be the way to success in a lot of these situations. But ultimately, these individuals have to understand their own role in creating this life for themselves. If they don't, there is usually no recovery.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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Ultimate Tiger [35112]
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They also just opened a new facility that I think is based
Sep 14, 2022, 11:24 AM
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on Moore Place's model. One of the hotels they purchased and retrofitted.
But biggest of ups to you for your volunteer efforts. But not surprising. You have a good heart there Sir Fuller.
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Top TigerNet [28533]
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Re: They also just opened a new facility that I think is based
Sep 14, 2022, 11:35 AM
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Shhh... You might ruin my reputation 
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Orange Blooded [3624]
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Our hometown homeless mission, Roof Above, has seen great
Sep 14, 2022, 12:37 PM
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We will need to commit billions. Are the taxpayers ready for that?
More so than sending billions ( of unaccounted money) to other countries? Absolutely!
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All-In [10637]
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Orange Blooded [3624]
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Re: It is a vicious cycle. How can you get a job with no way to
Sep 14, 2022, 1:16 PM
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Clothing too. Maybe burned out with no rest etc etc. They are a mess.
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Orange Blooded [3624]
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Top TigerNet [28453]
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California's plan to house them at the Carlton Ritz
Sep 14, 2022, 10:16 AM
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is not working ?
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Tiger Titan [48519]
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MAGAts be like
Sep 14, 2022, 10:25 AM
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Gridiron Giant [15773]
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Re: MAGAts be like
Sep 14, 2022, 1:01 PM
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What's wrong with working for a roof over your head? Is that a foreign concept to you?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: The Homeless Problem
Sep 14, 2022, 10:31 AM
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Open border equals more drugs equals more homeless. Let’s get more mental health help to the ones who will receive it. Let’s close the border to slow down the biggest source of homeless status.
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Tiger Titan [48519]
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^^^^thinks the border is the^^^^
Sep 14, 2022, 10:35 AM
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"biggest source of homeless status"
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: ^^^^thinks the border is the^^^^
Sep 14, 2022, 10:39 AM
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My goodness what a typical democrat response. I said drugs are coming across the border so let’s slow that down. Drugs, alcohol and mental illness are the biggest causes of homelessness. Yeah, sometimes bad luck but that usually ends up in a temporary homeless situation. Any time someone even hints at working on the root cause of a problem there’s always a democrat to stop it. Problems have root causes. My gosh use your brain for once.
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Top TigerNet [28453]
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maybe he's saying the fentanyl is helping reduce
Sep 14, 2022, 10:41 AM
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homelessness by its lethality ?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: maybe he's saying the fentanyl is helping reduce
Sep 14, 2022, 10:43 AM
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If that’s his point maybe he has a case.
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TigerNet Legend [145341]
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Drugs are pretty far down the list.
Sep 14, 2022, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: ^^^^thinks the border is the^^^^ ] |
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From NATIONAL LAW CENTER ON HOMELESSNESS & POVERTY
Causes of homelessness
Insufficient income and lack of affordable housing are the leading causes of homelessness:
o In 2012, 10.3 million renters (approximately one in four) had “extremely low incomes”
(ELI) as classified by HUD.35
In that same year, there were only 5.8 million rental units
affordable to the more than 10 million people identified as ELI.
36
o Additionally, only 31 out of every 100 of these affordable units were actually available to
people identified as ELI.37
After paying their rent and utilities, 75% of ELI households end up with less than half of their
income left to pay for necessities such as food, medicine, transportation, or childcare.38
The foreclosure crisis also played, and continues to play, a significant role in homelessness:
o In 2008, state and local homeless groups reported a 61% rise in homelessness since the
foreclosure crisis began.39
o Approximately 40% of families facing eviction due to foreclosure are renters; the problem
may continue to worsen as renters represent a rising segment of the U.S. population.40
For women in particular, domestic violence is a leading cause of homelessness.41
According to the most recent annual survey by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, major cities across
the country report that top causes of homelessness among families were: (1) lack of affordable
housing, (2) unemployment, (3) poverty, and (4) low wages, in that order.42 The same report found
that the top four causes of homelessness among unaccompanied individuals were (1) lack of
affordable housing, (2) unemployment, (3) poverty, (4) mental illness and the lack of needed
services, and (5) substance abuse and the lack of needed services.43
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Campus Hero [13596]
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Re: Drugs are pretty far down the list.
Sep 14, 2022, 10:52 AM
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Ok now- what is the cause of the insufficient income?
This is a major fork in the road into how left vs right solve problems.
Give a man a fish or teach a man to fish?
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TigerNet Legend [145341]
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Yes, the fork in the road is that
Sep 14, 2022, 11:12 AM
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Republicans don't want to spend money on fish OR fishing poles, because being poor is the fault of the poor. Don't act like conservative politicians and their constituents are suddenly willing to open the purse strings for mental health and work training programs. Abbott tried to blame the Uvalde shooting on lack of mental health for a good 2-3 days, before somebody pointed out that he slashed the Texas mental health budget by $211,000,000 for 2022. He quickly abandoned that tact.
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Tiger Titan [48519]
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Top TigerNet [28533]
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Re: Drugs are pretty far down the list.
Sep 14, 2022, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to Drugs are pretty far down the list. ] |
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I have done pretty extensive work with the homeless. I cannot remember a situation that a chronically homeless person was not either addicted to drugs or mentally ill.
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TigerNet Legend [145341]
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Right, but the conversation is about causes of homelessness,
Sep 14, 2022, 11:24 AM
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and far more often than not, substance abuse and addiction is a symptom, not a cause. Are there cases where somebody in a good situation (job, home, etc.) becomes addicted to opiates/fentanyl (the most common) and loses everything? Sure, but it's a small percentage compared to people who become homeless for other reasons, and THEN try substances as a means of mental escape from a helpless situation, subsequently followed by addiction.
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Top TigerNet [28533]
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Re: Right, but the conversation is about causes of homelessness,
Sep 14, 2022, 11:33 AM
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Soo... You have spoken with a large number of homeless people about their predicament?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Drugs are pretty far down the list.
Sep 14, 2022, 11:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: Drugs are pretty far down the list. ] |
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Same here. They can show all the “studies” they want but when you go to the trenches you see the primary root cause is substance abuse.
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TigerNet Legend [145341]
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Again...cart vs. horse.
Sep 14, 2022, 11:26 AM
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You're not grasping it, and anecdotal evidence is NOT superior to statistical fact-based studies.
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Top TigerNet [28533]
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Re: Again...cart vs. horse.
Sep 14, 2022, 11:30 AM
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When you have a really large population and nearly 100 percent of that population meet your criteria, that's pretty good statistical evidence.
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Ring of Honor [21278]
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Re: Drugs are pretty far down the list.
Sep 14, 2022, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Drugs are pretty far down the list. ] |
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And that's the problem. How do you help someone who's completely cooked their brain with crack, or somebody who's so far gone into schizophrenia his brain literally looks like Swiss cheese to a CAT scan?
I mean, this is the brain of a drug addict. How do you help this guy?
Also, the brain of a developed schizophrenic, versus a normal human brain:
There's not much of either there to work with. Those people are...broken, for want of a better word, and we simply don't have the science or capability yet to put them back together meaningfully. Doesn't mean we have to stop trying to figure out how to help them, but that's also where we are now and that's the reality we have to deal with today.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Drugs are pretty far down the list.
Sep 14, 2022, 12:43 PM
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And that's the problem. How do you help someone who's completely cooked their brain with crack, or somebody who's so far gone into schizophrenia his brain literally looks like Swiss cheese to a CAT scan? I mean, this is the brain of a drug addict. How do you help this guy? Also, the brain of a developed schizophrenic, versus a normal human brain: There's not much of either there to work with. Those people are...broken, for want of a better word, and we simply don't have the science or capability yet to put them back together meaningfully. Doesn't mean we have to stop trying to figure out how to help them, but that's also where we are now and that's the reality we have to deal with today.
I thought dems was for criminal social rehabilitation?
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Ring of Honor [21278]
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Re: Drugs are pretty far down the list.
Sep 14, 2022, 1:07 PM
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Dude, I've never been a Dem.
I'm a Reaganite RINO who leans Libertarian. And as a Libertarian I loathe it when bums get in my face and demand money.
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Tiger Titan [48519]
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I am not a democrat. try again***
Sep 14, 2022, 10:52 AM
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Well with your views you missed a great opportunity. By the way.you boys believe what you want. I’ve talked to and worked with a LOT of homeless people. You’re not going to tell me drugs and alcohol is not a major factor.
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Tiger Titan [46022]
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Tiger Titan [48519]
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MADFA
Sep 14, 2022, 11:01 AM
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make America drug free again?
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TigerNet Legend [145341]
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Re: MADFA
Sep 14, 2022, 11:13 AM
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Orange Immortal [61555]
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Homelessness is caused by a combination of other,
Sep 14, 2022, 10:48 AM
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deeper and more fundamental problems, primarily mental illness, addiction, and the breakdown of the family unit. I would even say that the breakdown of the family unit drives or contributes to the other two, mental illness and addiction, not only increasing their likelihood, but also how they are handled when they occur. I realize it's not 1959 with Ward and June Cleaver, but I think we should acknowledge the importance of a modern version of family which offers ongoing support, nurturing, and stability, the lack of which drives a lot of today's problems and can only come from the family unit. Everything else is a bandaid.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Homelessness is caused by a combination of other,
Sep 14, 2022, 10:58 AM
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Ok so now you’re going even deeper into a root cause and I think what you say is very accurate. Trying to discuss root causes with democrats is futile however. The broken family is absolutely a huge factor as you said. The broken family is a massive problem in the black communities especially. Someone will call that a racist statement but black leaders who actually have a set of balls say the same thing.
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Ultimate Tiger [35112]
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And mass incarceration b/c of a drug war that
Sep 14, 2022, 11:01 AM
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disproportionately impacts minority communities (by design), is a big reason for those broken families.
It's why conservatives should be getting behind justice reform. Reforming laws that put family members in prison for petty, non-violent offenses (like simple possession of pot) perpetuates a cycle of poverty and crime that taxpayers end up paying for.
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Orange Immortal [61555]
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I support decriminalization of weed 100%. Addiction is
Sep 14, 2022, 12:31 PM
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another problem altogether, and I support laws that are designed to punish those who sell and use deadly, dangerous drugs, even if those laws have never eliminated the problem. That has always affected lower income people disproportionately, but that doesn't mean the laws are unfair. I would argue that the deemphasis on the importance of the family unit drives the poverty that drives a lot of other problems, including the ones we're talking about here. I also support comprehensive, ongoing rehab as a first response to personal users as opposed to incarceration, but at some point personal responsibility must be the expectation, and the odds of that improving go up greatly when solid family units are the norm.
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Ring of Honor [21278]
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Re: The Homeless Problem
Sep 14, 2022, 11:11 AM
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The question to me is: where do you want your homeless problem? They have a massive, negative effect on society. These tent cities that are springing up are cancers and have to be gotten rid of. You can't have a clean city people want to live in with those popping up like mushrooms. Homelessness at scale utterly destroys communities. One pushy bum can make you never want to go to a park again or even walk down the street where they are, and in places we have hundreds or even thousands of them wandering the streets.
I don't want them in our cities. We can't afford to have them in our cities.
So I think you build camps. Blochouse-style, closed off, almost refugee camps. Vigorously watched with CCV cameras and plentiful cops/guards to keep things from degenerating into barbarism.
If you can't prove proof of residence somewhere, you get rolled into one of those, period. Homeless people are not hard to spot. And you should never, ever be allowed to build a tent or a box.
Those camps need to have have three tiers, IMHO. Group One, where a homeless person would arrive, needs to be the unsorted general population that will eventually filter into one of the two other groups. They get clean, single-person, absolutely minimal microtel-style accommodations where they have a safe place to sleep and lock up their stuff, and they are subject to regular drug tests and monitoring from social workers. If they pass their drug tests and show that they're complying with the program, trying to better themselves and put themselves back on their feet for a length of time - call it 60 days or so, long enough somebody who's faking it wouldn't be able to fake it for - then they qualify for assisted living and can move out to the top tier...call it: "People worth spending time and resources on." Those kind of programs already exist and they do work...if the person is willing to work the program.
Folks who are violent, though, and won't stay clean, who won't cooperate or try to sort themselves out, get rolled into the Bad People Camps. I think you further have two subgroups there...one group that's chronic drug users who aren't dangerous to anyone except themselves, and the violent ones. Obviously you treat those two groups differently.
You won't have great numbers or success rates with folks in the Bad People Camps, but if there's a way to save a determined drug addict who won't help themselves, I don't know what it is, and people who are dangerous psychopaths and violent sociopaths don't deserve help anyhow; it's just a matter of time before they hurt someone - a lot of them hurt others every day, some of those predator bums are savage towards other homeless people and anyone they think they can hurt - and wind up in prison.
Yes, liberals would scream and yell about all this: To them I say: concentrate on helping the ones who just fell on hard times and have some interest in helping themselves. And there absolutely needs to be a path to dignity back to those people.
But the tent cities and the homeless in our cities have to go...and we also have to be hard enough to be willing to give up and contain those who have given up on themselves, or are too damaged to function in this world as well. Good intentions aren't going to save a guy who's baked himself over the last 15 or 20 years on meth or bad crack and now has an effective IQ of 50 or 60, or who has paranoid schizophrenia and could flip out and try and kill somebody on the street with a hammer, and that's who we've got wandering around in our cities right now. Those people are currently beyond our ability to save. I hate it...but how do we actually help them?
And why do we keep pretending we can?
That's what I would do, personally.
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Tiger Titan [48519]
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since we can't use Yucca Mountain for nuclear waste,
Sep 14, 2022, 11:17 AM
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why not move the homeless there and let them evolve a new subterranean existence?
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Orange Blooded [3624]
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Re: The Homeless Problem
Sep 14, 2022, 11:30 AM
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I am sure the majority of people that are homeless have substance abuse problems. Some have bad credit or a record and are denied housing. All of that said, there are people that have jobs, tons of them, that are homeless living in their cars, especially in California. There are a bunch of Disney workers that live that way. They cant afford housing with their pay.
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Top TigerNet [28533]
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Re: The Homeless Problem
Sep 14, 2022, 1:53 PM
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Wait, wait, wait - I thought that California was a Leftist utopia. It's odd that it is the wealthiest and poorest state in the country.
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Ring of Honor [21278]
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Re: The Homeless Problem
Sep 14, 2022, 7:55 PM
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That's actually its problem.
Silicon Valley alone represents the largest concentration of wealth known to man, at any point in human history. Huge chunks of the world's wealth came streaming right into Big Tech's coffers over the last 40 years or so, completely distorting the California (and West Coast) economy in ways nobody ever anticipated or possibly could have planned for.
If you want to see human misery concentrated, make big changes, fast, to a local economy. The ripple effect of this one was more like a tsunami, and it's literally been felt up and down the West Coast.
Partisans look at that kind of thing and apply red labels or blue labels to things. I personally see a whole lot of unintended consequences. Too much success, too fast, and especially too much growth, is particularly devastating to locals when it happens. They get priced out and thrown to the wolves, overnight, and they often drown if they have nowhere to go.
I really like that show Yellowstone. That show kind of sums up what happened to California, and is now going after ranchers like the Duttons in Montana, as all that out-of-state (mostly California!) capital comes surging in, threatening to overwhelm every aspect of Montana ranch life as wealthy investors look to build second homes and ski resorts and airports...and incidentally, price the locals completely off their land by both fair means and foul. It also shows how it's like trying to hold the tide back with your hands to stop it.
Money seems to be pretty much unstoppable.
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All-In [10637]
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Homelessness is not a major problem in US America
Sep 14, 2022, 11:38 AM
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If it were - we wouldn't be letting thousands more people in per day.
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Orange Blooded [3624]
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Re: Homelessness is not a major problem in US America
Sep 14, 2022, 11:42 AM
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Those guys put 20 people in a room and work picking apples or what not in brutal conditions. They generally all pull together as a community. We had to close some large disgusting chicken plants in Iowa because the illegals were the only ones who can handle the work and the conservatives chased them all off. Same thing happened with the watermellon fields in Alabama.
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All-In [10637]
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See? That room with 20 guys in it could be a home for a
Sep 14, 2022, 11:56 AM
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US American family.
Seriously though - if we need slave labor to run the disgusting chicken farms, apple orchards, and watermelon fields - assign work visas...
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Orange Blooded [3624]
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Re: See? That room with 20 guys in it could be a home for a
Sep 14, 2022, 12:08 PM
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I agree.
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Orange Blooded [3624]
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Re: The Homeless Problem
Sep 14, 2022, 1:11 PM
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I forgot to add that I am sympathetic, but I used to live in the belly of the beast in CA, OR, and WA. Even lived in NYC. I dont believe the problem will ever be fixed and I think it will just get worse. Even many people that somewhat have it together are only being without a paycheck or two from being homeless.
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