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Replies: 39
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Tiger Spirit [9819]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 8:58 PM
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A lot of us have known it for a while now.
But tonight it was on full display for all to see.
We were completely outclassed tonight. Just terrible.
Here’s the worst part to me:
Watch the demeanor of both coaches throughout the game.
Kelsey looks confident and positive, and truly looks like he believes in his players.
BrownLLLL mopes around and constantly looks disgusted with his players.
It’s the worst I’ve ever seen…in any sport at any level.
He acts like if the players weren’t so stupid and if they would just listen to him, then his job wouldn’t be so hard. He could totally steal $2.5 Million a year from Clemson.
Well screww you, dude.
We’ve got to get rid of this clown.
But now we’ll never get Pat Kelsey.
He’ll coach the rest of his career at Louisville and will win at least one national title.
Way to go, soy boy Neff. You just keep on with your meaningless corporate babble.
You have failed Clemson basketball.
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110%er [3857]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 8:59 PM
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Brownell isnt going anywhere.. hes probably winning 20+ games again this year. we are stuck with him forever.
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1st Rounder [629]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:00 PM
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You must have never seen Paul Johnson
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National Champion [7812]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:00 PM
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That’ll never happen. Brownell is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:05 PM
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Brownell has been to 2 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8. Kelsey has been to zero. He's not the Saban of basketball but give him credit
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Tiger Spirit [9819]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:08 PM
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This is Kelsey’s first year at a non “mid major” program.
Watch what he does.
You got a pretty good glimpse of it tonight.
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:09 PM
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Until he does it he still has zero. Clemson basketball isn't the mecca of the sport. We don't get top recruits. Far from it.
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National Champion [7812]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:12 PM
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Hard to get top recruits when you don’t have a great recruiter. All these junk $EC programs are all of a sudden top 25, but yeah it’s hard to do anything when you have no round ball history. That’s just a bad excuse.
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Tiger Spirit [9819]
TigerPulse: 71%
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LOL okay.
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL ] |
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Well he’s now 1-0 against BrownLLLL as an ACC head coach. And it wasn’t real close.
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: LOL okay.
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:17 PM
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Not going to argue with you. The team played bad tonight. They will will win 20 games lose in ACC tournament and then sometime in NCAA. Tennessee lost by 30 tonight. They will bounce back as will we.
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Game Changer [1748]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL ] |
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What does Tony cuppochino say? Coot!
Are we in or out? Post a link jackhole. Waiting…again.
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Tiger Spirit [9819]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Thanks for being a fan.***
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:12 PM
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Game Changer [1748]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Thanks for being a fan.***
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:21 PM
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Coot
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Tiger Spirit [9819]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Okay sweetheart.***
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:23 PM
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Orange Phenom [14707]
TigerPulse: 81%
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Joined: 1998
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Re: Okay sweetheart.***
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:23 PM
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you are a pathetic pos
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Tiger Spirit [9819]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Thank you!!***
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:25 PM
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Ring of Honor [21671]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 13002
Joined: 2018
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Dynasty Maker [3221]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:17 PM
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The debate between the realist and Brownell supporters is always amusing. At the end of the day, Brownell has won zero conference championships or national titles. While making a sweet 16 and elite 8 were outstanding, zero major championships in the trophy case. I understand our history hasn’t been the greatest, but he’s been coaching for 15 years at Clemson. He has had time to build. Enough with the excuses. His pattern is to underperform and then go on a run to save his job. Same pattern under Tommy Bowden in football. Had we stuck with him, we never would have experienced the amazing run filled with countless ACC championships and 2 national titles that were won by Swinney. I say all of this to hopefully make the point, that fans have a right to expect more from Tiger basketball.
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:23 PM
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The difference is Clemson football has a history of winning football games. The potential was always there. Clemson basketball has never been good. I don't care what the school decides to do with Brownell, but he has done a good job at the school.
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Game Changer [2025]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:26 PM
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Keep him if you are satisfied with overall average performances and an occasional big win. Some of us have higher aspirations.
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:29 PM
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Again I don't care what they decide to do with him. But he has done better or the same as any other coach that has ever coached here and it makes me chuckle that people think that a coach will actually come here that will do any better. I used to think like that 25 years ago but I've come to realize this is what Clemson basketball is they will never be any better.
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Dynasty Maker [3221]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL ] |
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Clemson had not won a conference title since either 1990 or 1991 before Swinney. They also stopped being a powerhouse after the 80s and were plagued by decades of inconsistency. Dabo literally built it. To say that because we were good 30 years prior is the reason Swinney was successful seems illogical. Brownell has had 15 years. How many coaches at Clemson would still be coaching regardless of sport if they still hadn’t brought in a conference title in a decade and a half? My bet would be not many.
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:33 PM
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Top flight players are not going to come to Clemson to play basketball. As much as I would love to see an ACC tournament title or a final 4 it will be almost impossible to do, and Brownell has been closer than anyone else.
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Paw Master [17487]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 11240
Joined: 2007
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:38 PM
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It’s a logical fallacy and if you believe it then you have no reason to watch or care what we do.
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:43 PM
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I love Clemson basketball and have watched them for 40 plus years. Because I've watched them for 40 years I know we're not getting those players and it doesn't matter what we do or how much NIL money we have it's not going to happen there are other places with more tradition that they will choose to play. It's unfortunate but that's the world that we live in.
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Paw Master [17487]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:49 PM
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To whatever extent your pessimism might have been valid in the 80s into 90s, the rise of mid-majors with the advent of one-and-done players fundamentally changed college basketball. NIL and the portal only make it even more wide open. Clemson is one of the biggest brands in college sports. To concede at basketball, one of only 2 revenue sports, is irresponsible.
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Dynasty Maker [3221]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL ] |
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Purnell made the conference title in 2008 in a tougher ACC with less talent, no NIL, or transfer portal opportunities. Transfer portal has allowed schools like Clemson to land top players like Girard from Syracuse. Brownell needs to step up his game. We all want the same thing. The ACC is down this year and Clemson has their opportunity. They can’t continue to play like they did tonight.
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Ring of Honor [23364]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 14158
Joined: 2013
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We just went to the Elite 8. You cannot have that attitude.
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL ] |
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He has a very talented roster. And I keep hearing we’re a Top 2 or 3 team in the ACC and the league is down. Well win, dernit! Have higher expectations and quit making the frickin’ history excuses for him! If this is one of the “best eras of Clemson Basketball,” WIN GAMES LIKE TONIGHT!!!
~JKB
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Dynasty Maker [3221]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: We just went to the Elite 8. You cannot have that attitude.
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:34 PM
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👆🏽this fan gets it!
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: We just went to the Elite 8. You cannot have that attitude.
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:35 PM
[ in reply to We just went to the Elite 8. You cannot have that attitude. ] |
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I agree tonight was a bad night. But it's hard to play consistent basketball over a 30 game season. Teams will have bad nights. They will bounce back.
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Dynasty Maker [3465]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: We just went to the Elite 8. You cannot have that attitude.
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:52 PM
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I agree tonight was a bad night. But it's hard to play consistent basketball over a 30 game season. Teams will have bad nights. They will bounce back.
Board acts like each game is Clemson basketball should be winning by 30+. Losing sucksss but jeez not every loss makes Brownell the worst coach in history.
This the same board that goes crazy when Clemson loses a football game and think Dabo just hyucks it up at the clubhouse after and doesn't care anymore.
We really need a dumper board 😂 helll put a pumper board too to make it even.
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Ring of Honor [23364]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 14158
Joined: 2013
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CU Guru [1557]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
Jan 7, 2025, 10:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL ] |
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The debate between the realist and Brownell supporters is always amusing. At the end of the day, Brownell has won zero conference championships or national titles. While making a sweet 16 and elite 8 were outstanding, zero major championships in the trophy case. I understand our history hasn’t been the greatest, but he’s been coaching for 15 years at Clemson. He has had time to build. Enough with the excuses. His pattern is to underperform and then go on a run to save his job. Same pattern under Tommy Bowden in football. Had we stuck with him, we never would have experienced the amazing run filled with countless ACC championships and 2 national titles that were won by Swinney. I say all of this to hopefully make the point, that fans have a right to expect more from Tiger basketball.
Had Donte Grantham not gotten injured in 2018, I think Coach Brownell had his Final Four team that year. They might have won the whole thing, but if he is playing, I think the Tigers take Kansas in that game and then win the next one to go to the Final Four. So, Brownell, to me, actually did build a legitimate and truly capable “Final Four team”
By 2018, so it took him eight years instead of five, which is what the impatient haters would quickly point out while dismissing just how difficult, historically, it has been to consistently recruit winning basketball players to Clemson. The woeful historical record of Clemson basketball bears that out.
(Incidentally, before last year and during my lifetime, I had only ever seen but three Clemson teams that were legit Final Four material (1989-90 team, 1996-97 team, and the 2017-18 team with a healthy Grantham).
Coach Brownell has accomplished something I NEVER thought I’d live to see. He won at Chapel Hill. Then he did it again against a very good UNC team. They were, if memory serves, a “1 seed” last year. That, by itself, gives ANY Clemson coach an extension of at least 3-5 years of additional grace, in my opinion.
Coach Brownell first ten years were a struggle, mistly, and I think that’s a fair assessment. However, if you look at the last seven (effectively the “second half” of his Clemson tenure, I submit he has proven to be about like a successful “new hire.” This decade he has produced highly competitive and effective teams. He gets bashed for his first ten years, but if you look at the state of things as they were when he was hired (at the end of Purnell/2010) he took Purnell’s guys to 20+ wins and the NCAA Tournament, when he had better players. After that, if we are fair, I think it was going to be a struggle for most anyone to produce serious basketball teams at Clemson in the few years that followed. Barring the ridiculously absurd fantasies, like Kansas and UNC levels of cheating, along with the successful hire of a Bill Self, Calapari, or Patino type hire (the perfect coach type for the requisite levels of necessary cheating) made by Clemson, it would still have been very difficult to turn Clemson into a legitimate player in the basketball realm.
The putrid history of Clemson basketball, I think, has always made recruiting especially difficult. However, toward the end of his first ten years, his teams were winning more games, and since 2018, he has been to two Sweet 16s, and one Elite Eight. Therefore, if we judge Coach Brownell in the last seven or so years, his teams have made marked improvements with three NCAA Tournaments appearances (and it should have been four became Clemson got hosed in 2023). It would be very foolish to oust Coach Brownell at this point. His effective use of portal assets have greatly changed things, and the only way Clemson basketball was EVER going to improve was to acquire a solid and program building and sustaining coach (who actually wanted to stay at Ckemson) and was allowed to build. I think he has done that, and we are finally seeing the fruits of that in his second decade at the helm.
Whenever Coach Brownell and Clemson do part ways (through his retirement, I hope) I think the next coach is going to find it tremendously EASIER (provided it’s a good coach and hire) to recruit, build, and truly thrive as a basketball coach at Clemson. That’s the thing I think his haters refuse to even acknowledge. He really has turned Clemson basketball around. It’s not a joke and doormat anymore, and that’s a very good thing. Go Tigers!
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Dynasty Maker [3221]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
Jan 7, 2025, 10:45 PM
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One could also argue that his teams have become more talented recently because of NIL and transfer portal opportunities. Talent can mask coaching mistakes. Clemson is a national brand that everyone recognizes and some of that is owed to the success of football. Men’s basketball is being supported and given the resources to be competitive. Nothing wrong with fans becoming frustrated with inconsistent performance and hoping to have a chance to win a conference title in a weak ACC. Not many coaches regardless of sport would still be coaching at Clemson if they couldn’t win the conference in a decade and a half.
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Paw Master [17487]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:36 PM
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Just a quick note. Louisville was utter trash the last two seasons finishing over 200th and 300th in the NET back-to-back seasons. Kelsey has done a complete rebuild. The team is 100% transfers. Louisville had 5 ACC wins combined the last two seasons finishing last both years. He’s won 4 ACC games in 5 tries and owns the tiebreaker for 2nd place in the ACC. And before anyone says it’s easier to win at Louisville, why were they so awful the last two years?
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Game Changer [1906]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:38 PM
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Because they had a scandal lost a legendary coach and the entire program transferred out. Also note that Louisville has a deep rich basketball tradition which Clemson does not. That makes it easier to rebuild.
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Paw Master [17487]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
Posts: 11240
Joined: 2007
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:44 PM
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So they were hurt by the entire program transferring out but not by the entire program transferring out? Because it just happened. And the scandal happened in 2017. This is the 4th (technically 5th) head coach since then. Why weren’t the others more successful if the school brand matters so much? How does Kelsey make such a dramatic turnaround compared to coaches with as much or more success (Chris Mack was a hot name) if the brand is what ultimately matters?
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Ring of Honor [21671]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 13002
Joined: 2018
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Re: Pat Kelsey > Brad BrownLLLL
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Jan 7, 2025, 9:39 PM
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Speaking of meaningless babble…
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National Champion [7121]
TigerPulse: 100%
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$2.3mil > $3.5mil***
Jan 7, 2025, 10:36 PM
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Replies: 39
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