|
Replies: 22
| visibility 2892
|
Clemson Conqueror [11874]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
|
If states can ignore the rules of an athletic governing
Sep 18, 2024, 1:05 PM
|
|
body, if the rules in no way violate state law, why couldn't the State of Georgia overrule the Augusta National on who they have to invite to play in the Master's Tournament, or more specifically change the USGA & R&A Rules of Golf to their liking. Silly comparison, but does a group of colleges that get together and agree to rules and regulation not have any weight? Of course, the NIL was a legal issue, not and NCAA rules issue (although the NCAA did forbid payments to athletes ..... basically unconstitutional.
|
|
|
|
 |
Tiger Spirit [9997]
TigerPulse: 57%
44
Posts: 13115
Joined: 2006
|
Re: If states can ignore the rules of an athletic governing
1
2
Sep 18, 2024, 2:37 PM
|
|
You answered your own question with the silly part. Who owns Clemson? The answer is the state of South Carolina. Who owns Augusta National? The answer is it is hard to say but it is a for profit corporation and many LLC's and neither the state nor the federal government has any dotted line control because this is the United States.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Conqueror [11874]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
|
Re: If states can ignore the rules of an athletic governing
Sep 18, 2024, 2:57 PM
|
|
Oh, so the government would never insert themselves in the matters of a private organization. Got it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
Agreed...and in addition
1
Sep 18, 2024, 6:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: If states can ignore the rules of an athletic governing ] |
|
Private entities can limit memberships, invitations, and invites to
participate. They pay all of the athletes unless someone wants to keep his amateur status.
The football analogy is backwards from what Augusta National does.
This law guarantees that the athletes will get paid. They won't be defrauded of market value by someone else de icing that they don't deserve to get paid.
So...apples, meet oranges.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24892]
TigerPulse: 94%
54
Posts: 17252
Joined: 2002
|
Marlborocountycoot = cutigerinflorida = bluffton orange man
Sep 18, 2024, 8:36 PM
|
|
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
Give back the GEE. You didn't earn it******
Sep 19, 2024, 11:16 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
You answered your own question.
1
Sep 18, 2024, 2:45 PM
|
|
"Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate
Under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different."
"The NCAA is not above the law."
SCOTUS Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Concurring opinion
NCAA vs Alston
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Conqueror [11874]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
|
Re: You answered your own question.
Sep 18, 2024, 2:56 PM
|
|
I conceded that the NCAA nor anyone else can prevent someone, student athlete or otherwise from being paid for their name, image, or likeness. That, in my opinion, is different than an organization that sets its guidelines that everyone agrees to play by the same rules. I remember the case where the PGA Tour would not let Casey Martin take a cart as their rules prohibited it. Casey took the PGA Tour to court and won because of the American Disabilities Act, but otherwise probably would not have prevailed. If what the NCAA rules state is not illegal, then I wouldn't think any state could make them change their by-laws. I'm probably wrong, but the government of any state overriding a legitimate association whose members have agreed to rules that are not illegal should not be valid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
It's not different...
1
Sep 18, 2024, 4:36 PM
|
|
When the rules violate federal or state laws.
It's not just NIL or revenue sharing.
Recruiting, transfer portal, Title IX, etc.
That's why the NCAA is in the hook for $$ billions in the House case settlement.
That's why their "tampering" rule is still on their books, but can't be enforced.
That's why they are shut down in the Tennessee/Virginia recruiting case.
"The NCAA is not above the law".
SCOTUS Justice Kavanaugh
|
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [1169]
TigerPulse: 100%
26
|
Re: You answered your own question.
1
Sep 18, 2024, 3:05 PM
[ in reply to You answered your own question. ] |
|
I understand the legalities here, but why would this not also apply to high schools that charge admission to get into games? The student athletes are also providing a service for which the schools are collecting money... And being that they are children, would child labor laws come into effect? This could eventually get messy! Not a lawyer here... Just asking... I'm all ears 
Message was edited by: northernVAtiger®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
There are many states that have lH.S. NIL.
1
Sep 18, 2024, 4:38 PM
|
|
Some have laws against it.
They may get away with it based on how they legally treat minors.
On those states, sooner or later, a smart guy is going to have a good attorney lined up and fine the lawsuit on his 18th birthday whine he's still a H.S. senior.
|
|
|
|
|
|
National Champion [8008]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
Posts: 15919
Joined: 2001
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
Yes, they are. They work long hours.
1
Sep 18, 2024, 5:51 PM
|
|
Extremes of physical labor. High risk of injury. Strength, speed, and mobility conditioning.
Yeah, it's work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Cub [12]
TigerPulse: 100%
2
|
Re: Yes, they are. They work long hours.
Sep 18, 2024, 6:11 PM
|
|
It’s also voluntary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [23209]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 13036
Joined: 2007
|
Re: Yes, they are. They work long hours.
3
Sep 18, 2024, 6:14 PM
|
|
All work is voluntary, unless you're a slave or a prisoner.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
Voluntary? No. sequitur.
1
Sep 18, 2024, 6:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yes, they are. They work long hours. ] |
|
They are entitled to fair market value.
They didn't get it for decades due to the NCAA's bogus definitions and illegal rules.
The NCAA has lost every court decision having anything to do with their sports model. There are good reasons for that as Justice Kavanaugh so succinctly put it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
Now let's apply that to your job.
1
Sep 18, 2024, 6:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yes, they are. They work long hours. ] |
|
You work it voluntarily. Ergo, your employer can just decide to stop paying you but still make you show up and work your ### off for him.
Sauce for the goose...
Because...anything else would be nauseatingly hypocritical of you. 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Conqueror [11874]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
|
Re: Yes, they are. They work long hours.
Sep 18, 2024, 6:20 PM
[ in reply to Yes, they are. They work long hours. ] |
|
This is not about their work and being paid for it, but rather NIL. The Tennessee judge's ruling basically said a college cannot be compelled to NOT tell a recruit how much their NIL cooperative is willing to give them, as it is an antitrust issue. It basically prohibits a recruit from knowing his true value if he is not able to find out what he will receive.
The billions that the NCAA will have to fork over is because of them not being able to cash in on their NIL due to NCAA rules, not because they were not paid to work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Asst Coach [812]
TigerPulse: 90%
23
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
They absolutely ARE workers.
1
Sep 18, 2024, 6:12 PM
|
|
You obviously never were a college athlete of you don't understand that it's work. Hard work and lots of it.
I'll take the Supreme Court's 9-0 decision in the Alston case over your baseless claim.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
It's not "ignore".
1
Sep 18, 2024, 6:30 PM
|
|
It's "apply" the law and overturn illegal a TS or policies by anyone or any group that violates the law.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19074]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 13917
Joined: 2009
|
Regardless of state laws or court decisions,
Sep 18, 2024, 7:15 PM
|
|
you would think that the NCAA could at minimum enforce eligibility for post-season championship play based on adhering to an agreed upon set of rules from its members to participate. Programs can pretty much do whatever they want at this point in terms of roster building but to have that team be eligible for sanctioned championships in the postseason would be a different matter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2851]
TigerPulse: 71%
33
|
The NCAA doesn't sanction the playoffs or the championship.
1
Sep 19, 2024, 2:35 AM
|
|
The playoff committee does.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 22
| visibility 2892
|
|
|
50
