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YOUR BALANCE
So my 6 year old comes home from school today
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So my 6 year old comes home from school today


Feb 26, 2015, 3:59 PM

Asked, as usual what he learned today.

Answer: "Don't steal from the Earth"

Intrigued I asked him for an example of stealing from the Earth. He said cutting down trees was stealing from the Earth. I then asked him would it be stealing if you replanted the trees. He looked puzzled at that point. I said what if you cut all the trees down in an area and then replanted baby trees to replace them. Would that be stealing. He said yes. I said it's "borrowing", and that is what paper companies and timber companies do.

I then went on to explain to him about the term "renewable resource" which he may never learn it appears. I then showed him a aerial map of our land and showed how tracts had been selectively harvested. I explained that we cut trees every 10-15 years on the land in certain areas and replant, and rotate the harvest to another area 10-15 years later as it matures. This way we harvest trees, but they all regrow. We are therefore BORROWING from the Earth. I also explained that this is how he will end up going to college if he's smart enough to regurgitate all the BS he is being taught.

He was also shocked to learn there are more trees now in the United States than there were 100 years ago BECAUSE trees are a renewable resource and are being replanted responsibly, where MANY years ago, when his GRANDFATHER WAS BORN during the depression, people started to understand the principle of replanting timber.

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True about 100 years ago, but not even fathomly close to 400***


Feb 26, 2015, 4:02 PM



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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


ya, lets go back to the stone ages ;-)***


Feb 26, 2015, 4:06 PM



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You probably just need to go back to the point


Feb 26, 2015, 4:08 PM

Where we said, "ah man, we're running out of trees, better plant some new trees so we don't end up like Europe."

Also, not all trees are created equal. Production pine and old growth forrest are two separate things completely.

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It's not only the amount of trees that matter, the entire


Feb 26, 2015, 4:09 PM [ in reply to ya, lets go back to the stone ages ;-)*** ]

composition of the forest have changed because we have suppressed natural disturbances.

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


I say we all live in mud huts***


Feb 26, 2015, 4:14 PM



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Cam dreams of that day***


Feb 26, 2015, 4:15 PM



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at least we wont have to worry about cable bills


Feb 26, 2015, 4:18 PM

then

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Nope all you need is a bible and candle***


Feb 26, 2015, 4:24 PM



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I say we close golf courses and plant trees


Feb 26, 2015, 4:09 PM [ in reply to True about 100 years ago, but not even fathomly close to 400*** ]

Golf courses have to be taking up what, 80% of potential tree habitats? ####### things are everywhere man.

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Or dry up Hartwell and plant trees


Feb 26, 2015, 4:14 PM

looks ready for seedlings!



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Hey, we've got water these days


Feb 26, 2015, 4:20 PM

Despite the Corps. of Engineers best efforts to keep it low. Plus, you can't have a Bassmasters on Boscobel.

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And the fact communities are built around them


Feb 26, 2015, 4:18 PM [ in reply to I say we close golf courses and plant trees ]

entire lives are raised and lived in homes and neighborhoods built around the idea of "a game of 18 holes with varying levels of grass lengths that's played with a ball and stick."

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My grandfather told me a story about golf one time


Feb 26, 2015, 4:26 PM

Now, he was a great man, smarter than any of us could ever hope to be...

He said he used to be an avid golfer, it was what many of his friends did, and he enjoyed it himself. However, he found himself on the golf course one hot summers day, frustrated with his play. He said out of the blue something just clicked, he picked the ball up off of the tee, walked down to the hole, and dropped the ball right on in. I don't think he ever played golf again in his life after that. We theorize that was instrumental in our family becoming the lake people we are, without that moment, both my father and myself could have been ###### to dress preppy and sweat our ##### off with people we don't really like that much on a golf course for the rest of our lives....And we would have thought we liked it.

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Ummmm.....define fathomly


Feb 26, 2015, 4:36 PM [ in reply to True about 100 years ago, but not even fathomly close to 400*** ]

Land and Forest Area

It is estimated that—at the beginning of European settlement—in
1630 the area of forest land that would become
the United States was 423 million hectares or about 46
percent of the total land area. By 1907, the area of forest
land had declined to an estimated 307 million hectares or
34 percent of the total land area. Forest area has been relatively
stable since 1907. In 1997, 302 million hectares—
or 33 percent of the total land area of the United States—
was in forest land. Today’s forest land area amounts to
about 70 percent of the area that was forested in 1630.

Since 1630, about 120 million hectares of forest land
have been converted to other uses—mainly agricultural.
More than 75 percent of the net conversion to other uses
occurred in the 19th century.

Oh...and the link from the USDA FWIW:
http://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/briefings-summaries-overviews/docs/ForestFactsMetric.pdf


Message was edited by: Tiggity®


Message was edited by: Tiggity®


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fathomly =Algore***


Feb 26, 2015, 4:56 PM



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If she's a hollerer, she'll be a screamer.
If she's a screamer, she'll get you arrested.


I like redistribution better ;-)***


Feb 26, 2015, 4:05 PM



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You do lose "old growth" ecosystems


Feb 26, 2015, 4:10 PM

but neat story, nonetheless.

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There was just clearly a lot left out.


Feb 26, 2015, 4:30 PM

That is true about the old growth ecosystems, but a planted timber plantation with mostly pines and some mixed hardwood is still an infinitely better ecosystem than a corn field (thanks ethanol).

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I agree with this somewhat


Feb 26, 2015, 4:43 PM

However, when you start exchanging old growth timber for planted timber plantations, it's not exactly equal even if you plant more trees in the timber plantation.

I have no issue with timber production and I commend you for actually explaining something to your kid, I'm just arguing the finer point.

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Considering the hundreds of millions of more people we


Feb 26, 2015, 5:06 PM

have today, and the fact that we produce 25% of the world's industrial timber, and have the world's most productive agriculture, and we still retain 70% of the original level of forested land....that's pretty impressive. Parks are important for preserving old-growth habitats, and some private land owners do also, but the hysteria my son is being taught is frightening.

And them my wife chimes in, as always, with the fact that her family clearcut some land and did not replant it because her great aunt needed medical care. I asked her if they left any trees. They left the hardwoods. I then informed her that this was good, and in the long run would be better than if they HAD replanted it with pines, because in 50-100 years through natural regeneration, that will be a nice hardwood tract and superb deer habitat.

The whole ethanol thing irritates me however. I don't understand the environmental cost-benefit analysis of ethanol at all. An oil well takes up between 5-10 acres of land. Habitat totally destroyed. The rest is available. It takes hundreds of acres of corm planted in a field void of trees, to produce the same fuel for cars, and it's inferior anyway...and kills small engines.

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I think we're on the same page


Feb 26, 2015, 5:10 PM

I have no problem with timber farms. They serve their purpose. It sounds like you know something about timber. Am I correct that the quick money in logging is in old growth forest and not in timber farms?

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The big money is.....


Feb 26, 2015, 5:29 PM

Hardwood brings a higher price (more money) but grows much MUCH slower and is not easily "farmed". My knowledge is mainly as a landowner. I'm not a forester, but we have one for our tract. About 1/3 of our land is natural/old growth hardwood, and about 2/3 is planted pines. My 3g grandfather, 2g grandfather, grandfather, and father have left the hardwood tract alone as it makes a very nice deer habitat. The pines are planted, thinned about every 12 years, and will probably be clear-cut when I retire, as my father did. That paid for Clemson for me. I think when I ever get around to clear-cutting, I will push the stumps into rows and burn them before replanting. This is more expensive, and my dad did not do that when he replanted. If you get rid of the stumps, the replanted trees will grow faster, and better overall.

We have some old live oaks that were planted on our land by Colonel Joseph Glover, prior to the Revolutionary War. Also on the land is the cemetery for Col. Isaac Hayne, who also owned part of the tract. Back then they had a lot of the land cultivated for rice. The old channels and dikes for the rice fields are still discernible in the woods. I am pretty sure the rice fields were abandoned sometime before or around 1800. The oldest live oak on our land is over 400 years old, and still sits beside the area where Colonel Glover's house used to sit. Go digging around and you can find all kinds of stuff in the dirt. As a kid I found an old belt buckle...the big square kind like the pilgrims wore. The British burned his home shortly after they hung Isaac Hayne in Charleston, but the tree remained.

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Yes, hardwoods grow much slower


Feb 26, 2015, 5:37 PM

However, if you have no interest in replanting them, it doesn't really matter how fast or slow they grow, and are not really a "renewable" resource unless you have a few hundred years on your hands.

I'm just trying to give the teacher some benefit of the doubt. I think she was probably talking about something completely different than timber harvesting and did a terrible job of scaling the argument down to kid level. Or she might just be a libbie trying to brainwash children...I don't know her personally.

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My son came home thinking cutting trees was "stealing from


Feb 26, 2015, 9:42 PM

the Earth". I know his teacher personally (unfortunately), I know what he was taught today, and what he wasn't taught.

Meanwhile, he has homework every night, and his "writing" homework is 4th grade level and his math is preschool level. But that's another issue entirely.

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Maybe the teacher was teaching about the Amazon?


Feb 26, 2015, 11:18 PM

Because I think most would agree the clear cutting down there is stealing from the Earth. But the general idea of cutting down trees is a bit absurd without the narrowing of context.

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If we didn't cut down trees to make paper, how would Barry


Feb 26, 2015, 4:11 PM

sign all those executive orders?



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Uhhhh, the same way


Feb 26, 2015, 6:34 PM

Bush signed all those signing statements?

Either way, the gubmint is a mass murderer of trees...

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...I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.


And just a btw the way...


Feb 26, 2015, 6:37 PM [ in reply to If we didn't cut down trees to make paper, how would Barry ]

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

Obama sux, but he ain't the first to try legislating from the Opal Orifice.

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...I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.


If we could just plant industrial hemp in this so called


Feb 26, 2015, 4:18 PM

free country of ours, we could leave many more of the trees for the huggers to hug.

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“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov
Panta Rhei Heraclitus


Re: So my 6 year old comes home from school today


Feb 26, 2015, 9:49 PM

we are doing far more destructive things than cutting down trees. Half the worlds animals have gone extinct since 1970 and our oceans and atmosphere will never be the same as they were 100 years ago, at least not in our lifetimes.

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