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Replies: 60
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Clemson Icon [26916]
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DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 16, 2024, 8:08 AM
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Last year Oregon State was 8-4 and averaged over 400 yards per game on offense.
This year
128th in total offense
274 yards per game
124th in scoring offense
15.3 points per game
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Associate AD [1001]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 16, 2024, 8:11 AM
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Great question. Oregon State had a very good offensive line and running game that complimented a "game manager" in DJ.
I'd say its Mike Norvell.
1) Over evaluating DJU
2) Overuse of the portal
3) Most likely losing the locker room due to 1 & 2 failing
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Rival Killer [3090]
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I reuse of the portal??? Not even.
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Sep 16, 2024, 8:22 AM
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They lost tons of guys between graduation and transfers. What was Nor ell supposed to do, use a 55 player roster now?
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Ring of Honor [21238]
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Re: I reuse of the portal??? Not even.
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Sep 16, 2024, 8:34 AM
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"They lost tons of guys between graduation and transfers."
And this occurred due to overuse of the portal.
When you overuse the portal you make your roster artificially older and higher classmen which leads to huge numbers of departures. Which leads to over use of the portal. Rinse repeat.
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Valley Protector [1455]
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Now Stop That
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Sep 16, 2024, 1:06 PM
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No such narrative-busting logic is allowed regarding the portal!
+1
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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No one on this site is advocating for overuse of the portal
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Sep 17, 2024, 11:10 AM
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We are advocating for plugging holes.
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Tiger Titan [46595]
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Say it again for the people in the back not paying attention.***
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Sep 17, 2024, 5:33 PM
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Valley Protector [1455]
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Re: No one on this site is advocating for overuse of the portal
Sep 18, 2024, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to No one on this site is advocating for overuse of the portal ] |
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But how do you effectively plug holes with a better player without tampering? Are you in favor of tampering, or do you believe that it’s simply necessary to play that game. I think that is the crux of why Dabo has not filled holes; he is not willing to go there.
Just my opinion. I don’t oppose filling holes, but it just seems like a non-starter in the current environment.
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Legend [6983]
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Orange Blooded [2219]
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Re: I reuse of the portal??? Not even.
Sep 18, 2024, 6:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: I reuse of the portal??? Not even. ] |
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Sounds kuat like earlier eras when recruiting junior college players was all the rage. You end up with chemistry problems and rosters that are so in balanced it wrecks the program.
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Game Day Hero [4379]
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Re: I reuse of the portal??? Not even.
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Sep 16, 2024, 9:19 AM
[ in reply to I reuse of the portal??? Not even. ] |
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Their 5 star QB of the future transferred out when they brought DJ in...
It's almost like people leave when you overuse the portal...
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Ultimate Tiger [37812]
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Re: I reuse of the portal??? Not even.
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Sep 12, 2017, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to I reuse of the portal??? Not even. ] |
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Over use is what gave him your quoted 55 man roster. Try recruiting and possibly keeping most of your roster for at least 3 years. Just a thought.
Things like this was predicted. Few more issues will arise in the near future. Stay tuned.
Bluffton OrangeMan
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TigerNet Legend [145403]
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CU Medallion [19359]
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Well props to Jenn Sterger on your post rehash***
Sep 17, 2024, 5:50 PM
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Clemson Icon [24892]
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Letterman [198]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 16, 2024, 8:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board. ] |
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FSU is very bad upfront on both sides of the ball. They can't run the football or pass protect DJ. There defense can't stop the run or pressure the quarterback. Mike Novell trust the guys he have on the roster, which and they're not good enough.
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CU Medallion [19702]
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Both; on another note congrats on the Gators continuing to suck
Sep 16, 2024, 8:17 AM
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I am hopeful that brings you some joy during these troubling Seminole times.
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Gridiron Giant [15962]
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Oregon St had a great OL last year and ran the ball really well.
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Sep 16, 2024, 8:20 AM
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FSU OL is worse than DJ.
DJ doesn't process quickly. Combine that with a terrible OL and here ya go. Also, Benson is the only WR on the team right now.
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Orange Elite [5161]
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Its both
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Sep 16, 2024, 8:27 AM
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FSU Oline is horrible
And DJ was just an average qb with a top 5 OL last year
Cannon for an arm but he’s got the slowest footwork of a Power 5 qb I’ve seen in a long while.
Great protection with his first read open, and he’s great. Get him on his back feet with some pressure and take away his first option and it’s a total train-wreck.
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Gridiron Giant [15907]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 16, 2024, 8:32 AM
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Like it or not it is always the coach. Players win games coaches lose them.
GO TIGERS!!!
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Orange Blooded [2145]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 16, 2024, 8:37 AM
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FSU has got to get back to building the program through recruiting and not going out a buying a roster every year in the portal. As long as they are slaves to the portal, you are going to have drastic swings in the talent pool from year to year. It takes much longer to build a program through recruiting and unfortunately the fans many times aren’t patient enough to wait for the results. I just remember the days when FSU fielded a top 5 recruiting class every year. They have the brand and tradition to do it. Jimbo Fisher was the downfall of FSU and it hasn’t recovered.
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Orange Blooded [2235]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 8:40 AM
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^^^^ this…
But that’s advice for the next coach…Norvell won’t be given the time…barring a miraculous improvement this season or next…
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Orange Elite [5294]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 17, 2024, 5:34 PM
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Norvell will be there for awhile. Even FSU boosters are not going to pay 65 million to get rid of him. FSU got out ahead of most using portal guys but now they are not get to get that talent thru the portal as easy.
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Orange Blooded [2235]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 8:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board. ] |
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^^^^ this…
But that’s advice for the next coach…Norvell won’t be given the time…barring a miraculous improvement this season or next…
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Clemson Conqueror [11340]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 9:05 AM
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What's been the response on the Nole Board?
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National Champion [7562]
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What was response from Nole fans on the site ??
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Sep 16, 2024, 9:16 AM
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interested to here how they perceive these troubled times.
I will say this and that will be all. Anybody who truly thought DJ would be the answer at FSU was not paying attention for the past 3 seasons. 8-4 at Oregon State, but look at the teams they beat and then look at the teams he lost against. Same with Clemson, simply could not beat better competition and unfortunately has not even come close to being a top ranked QB out of high school.
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Game Day Hero [4379]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 9:17 AM
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The coach, the QB, and half the team left Oregon State, right?
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Clemson Icon [27997]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 9:25 AM
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Last year Oregon State was 8-4 and averaged over 400 yards per game on offense.
This year
128th in total offense
274 yards per game
124th in scoring offense
15.3 points per game
Jonathan Smith is a h3lluva coach....
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Offensive Star [321]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 9:28 AM
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I think it is both. We all know DJ is still doing DJ things at FSU. There is a reason he is on his 3rd College team and its not because of Academics.
In regards to Norvell, he hasn't really built a program at FSU. As of 9/7/24 they had the 34th best '25 recruiting class. Last year's team was great because they hit on the portal. This year they haven't hit on the portal. They also had an established leader at QB in Travis Jordan, which they don't have right now. Norvell has to build a foundation through recruiting, otherwise he is going to be on his way out of FSU. This season could outweigh last season in terms of hurting/helping the program. I also believe that when schools sign so many players via the portal, it kind of says to the recruits, why do I want to go there as they are just going to sign someone via the portal to possibly take my position.
With that being said, FSU is very bad on both sides of the ball. It's not just DJ's fault. But I do hope DJ is still the starting QB when Clemson plays FSU. There will be a little added juice for the Tigers if he is the starter.
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MVP [525]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 17, 2024, 11:15 AM
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Deptula covered this in depth after Noles lost to BC. Basically he said (to ‘Noles fans), “You can’t replace a team full of good players at virtually every position with a bunch of players who are not as good and expect the team to perform as well.” That’s what Norvell has done.
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TigerNet Elite [73501]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 9:36 AM
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On the other side of the ball their DL hasn't been very good against the run as I recall. I did not do in depth analysis
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Tiger Spirit [9956]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 16, 2024, 9:51 AM
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It’s almost never one thing so blaming DJ for an assortment of issues is unfair. Building half a team from the portal is high risk and high reward. Last year you got the reward and this year the risk. The HC is responsible for the program so an 0-3 start after being picked to win the conference is on him as he chose how to build his roster.
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Offensive Star [323]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 9:53 AM
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Oregon St lost their HC Johnathan Smith left there. I am sure they have a new OC as well. He may have taken his offense with him.
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Solid Orange [1330]
TigerPulse: 100%
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DJ, DJ, and probably DJ. He is a below average quarterback, with a coolness
Sep 16, 2024, 10:04 AM
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of attitude that doesn't inspire anyone when the chips are down (or up for that matter).
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Orange Immortal [67569]
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The PAC 12 wasn't exactly know for having stellar defenses.***
Sep 16, 2024, 10:12 AM
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National Champion [7350]
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Couldn't be happening to a better flash in the pan coach.
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Sep 16, 2024, 10:28 AM
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I do feel bad DJU didn't pan out and prove the critics wrong. Hopefully he has successful career lined up after college.
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Playmaker [379]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 10:31 AM
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While I believe that Norvel is to blame for a lot of the roster issues with FSU, DJ has a big part in the offensive woes.
This season DJ is 56/99 (56.6%) for 666 yards (6.73 YPA) with 1 TD and 2 INT. Boston College currently ranks 38th in total defense, Memphis 11th, and Georgia Tech 55th. I broke down last season by stats against teams he played ranked in various ranges of Team Defense. His numbers are pretty much the same.
Against Power 5 Teams 100th or worse in total defense (Stan, Cal, Colo)
43/68 (63.2%) for 738 yards (10.85 YPA) with 8 TDs / 0 INT
Against Power 5 Teams 50-99 in total defense (Wash and WSU)
32/65 (49.2%) for 362 yards (5.57 YPA) with 1 TD / 3 INT
Against Power 5 Teams 1-49 in total defense (Oreg, Utah, UCLA, AZ)
63/114 (55.3%) for 908 yards (7.97) YPA with 6 TD / 2 INT
If you strip out AZ and UCLA from that group, 33/60 (55%) for 424 yards with 2 TD / 2 INT
Games against Group of 5
34/55 (61.8%) for 523 yards (9.51 YPA) with 4 TD and 2 INT
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Gridiron Giant [15630]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 10:42 AM
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DJU, before this year, had a ~ 30 and 10 record because the coaches knew and used him the only way they could win with him. I would say Norvell knew what he was getting and should have adjusted accordingly.
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Campus Hero [13979]
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IMO it's both and I'm doubtful there is a near term fix to either.
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Sep 16, 2024, 11:26 AM
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After Saturday's loss, Norvell said "it's up to us to get what we see in practice to happen on the field during gameday". Eric MacLain on the ACC Huddle correctly recalled "that is the exact same thing we heard almost every week from Dabo Swinney at Clemson for 2 years" during the DJU era.
That is 2 coaching staff's with the same problem - DJU is apparently a practice All American but on gameday, for whatever reason, fails to translate what he does in practice to the field in game conditions. At this point - I don't think it is fixable and Norvell is going to live with his bad decision to put all his eggs in the DJU basket.
The second, and bigger issue, is the culture Norvell has nurtured at FSU. His over reliance on the portal to bring in starters has produced a "mercenary culture" where it's not about a love of FSU or their teammates but a love of what FSU can pay them.
That mercenary culture goes largely unnoticed when things go well and the team is winning - but in a losing locker room that mercenary culture will eat their innards out. As we saw last year - the moment FSU was out of the playoff picture - all those mercenary's dumped them for their own self-interests and UGA crushed them in the bowl game.
Simply put it's not about FSU team pride - but simply a transactional culture where every man is out for himself. Even when DJU struggled at Clemson - we were able to lean on our team culture and ended up winning more than we lost. Norvell's FSU has no sustainable culture to lean on and the result is 0-3 against folks whose talent level is way below that of the FSU mercenaries.
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Ultimate Tiger [37812]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 16, 2024, 11:32 AM
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Norvell went undefeated last year until his team quit before the bowl game.DJ came in and they are 0-3. DJ is the primary problem. He is not a good QB. Heard Clemson coaches can’t develop this or that, BS spewed by folks that like to complain about everything. 3rd coach and still looks like the same QB that was at Clemson.
Norvell does deserve some blame as well. Why go after the guy? Why is he starting? Those 2 questions are head scratchers imo.
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Orange Beast [6534]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 16, 2024, 11:36 AM
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Why would a recruit go there? Work hard and buy in to the program just to get replaced by a transfer. It's not a sustainable model.
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110%er [4039]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 11:47 AM
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It’s DJU. He was only slightly better at OSU than he was at Clemson and faced inferior defenses. DJ is an average power 4 QB
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TigerNet Legend [145403]
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All-Time Great [97799]
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My thoughts are that both are part of FSU's problem.
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Sep 17, 2024, 1:39 AM
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The foundation of the problem with FSU football this year isn't DJ. DJ is being consistent with what he's done in the past. THe foundation is Norvell's ego which led him to believe that he could either fix DJ or hide DJ's inefficiencies.
There is redemption for your coach, Bret. He has learned a humbling lesson about himself. A man's gotta know his limitations.
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Clemson Icon [27372]
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Commissioner [1255]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 16, 2024, 12:22 PM
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The real problem is neither. The underlying problem is that Florida St. does not have enough weapons to threaten the defense. Defenses don't have to worry too much about about getting beaten deep, and they can concentrate on defending the run and the short passing game.
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Ring of Honor [23744]
TigerPulse: 100%
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If Portal Players were used cars, FSU was sold flood damaged cars.***
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Sep 16, 2024, 12:25 PM
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Orange Blooded [2396]
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Re: If Portal Players were used cars, FSU was sold flood damaged cars.***
Sep 16, 2024, 12:28 PM
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Will be interesting to see if after their game this week if some players opt out and enter the portal.
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National Champion [8049]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Norvell. Hands Down.
Sep 16, 2024, 12:39 PM
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DJU is not a good QB. We all can see that. He has moments where you think; the light has come on(Wake game, ND game) but he is mostly a bust.
Norvell guessed right with Coleman and Wilson and Travis. To me, as a Carolina Panthers fan, I would like to see J. Travis under center rather than Bryce Young. J. Travis had that "it" about him - period. Take him away and last year and all the "The Noles are back talk never happens"!
Norvell is FSU's biggest issue.
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CU Guru [1582]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 16, 2024, 12:57 PM
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FSU has a long list of problems.
DJ is one of those problems.
Norvell is responsible for all of the other problems.
I’m not gonna spend any time listing the problems.
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All-Pro [728]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
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Sep 17, 2024, 12:53 AM
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I have to agree with the majority here. FSU is smack dab in the middle of the biggest and deepest recruiting hotbed in the Country. If you have to resort to filling out a roster with portal players/mercenaries in Florida of all places, that's not on the players. Thats 100% on the coaches. Especially with the history and pageantry of Florida State. There is no reason FSU should not be in the top 15 even in their worst years with the amount of talent on their doorstep.
If there are any teams in the Country who should never have had to worry about using the portal it should have been Florida and Florida State. At least imho.
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Head Coach [963]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 17, 2024, 10:47 AM
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DJ-PHOOEY-BUMBLE-ALL-DAY
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Head Coach [963]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 17, 2024, 10:57 AM
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When you hire a bunch of mercenaries, you purchase a double edged sword; history proves this over and over.
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Head Coach [932]
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 17, 2024, 11:06 AM
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How many people left Oregon State after they were omitted from a power conference?
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Orange Blooded [2388]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Norvell.
Sep 17, 2024, 11:06 AM
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The buck doesn't stop in DJU's locker, it stops at Norvell's desk.
Dude lived by the portal last year, and is dying by it this year.
Sad to see FSU become a clown-car program similar to the one Sanders has created at Colorado.
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National Champion [8049]
TigerPulse: 100%
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**Remember cancelled game**
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Sep 17, 2024, 12:36 PM
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The buck doesn't stop in DJU's locker, it stops at Norvell's desk.
Dude lived by the portal last year, and is dying by it this year.
Sad to see FSU become a clown-car program similar to the one Sanders has created at Colorado.
The way FSU cancelled that game b/c they was scared of the A-whooping that was coming. It's not sad to see where they are "at all" to me.
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Clemson Icon [26916]
TigerPulse: 100%
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For those who asked, consensus on the Nole board was...
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Sep 17, 2024, 12:52 PM
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... varied, somewhat. But, in general, very negative for both.
DJU stinks. He should be replaced immediately.
Norvell totally and completely blew it in his evaluation of DJU. Never should have recruited him.
DJ isn't the only problem, but he is the QB so he sets the tone for everyone. Time for him to be benched.
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Orange Elite [5294]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 17, 2024, 5:29 PM
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Wholesale use of the portal will cause inconsistency from year to year. Sometimes you guess right and sometimes you don’t.
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Commissioner [1240]
TigerPulse: 73%
27
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 18, 2024, 6:00 AM
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Why don't you go back there and stay? The FSWTC has been a pain in the butt everywhere and your meager association with CCC has some Clemson folks thinking we're as special as you wannabee!
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110%er [3674]
TigerPulse: 100%
35
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Oregon State lost a whole lot more than just DJ
Sep 18, 2024, 11:37 AM
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They lost their coach and lots of key players transferred.
Their program was gutted and filleted when the Pac 12 collapsed, so the year-over-year comparison is completely invalid.
Give Norvelle another year.
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Redshirt [91]
TigerPulse: 100%
10
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Re: DJU or Mike Norvell? I asked this on a Nole board.
Sep 18, 2024, 2:22 PM
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It is a combination of both. The new portal guys are just not as good as Norvells last group. DJU was way overated coming out of high school. Obviously the locker room has to be disfunctional at this point. FSU should bench DJ and see what other QBs on the roster can do. If that doesn't help then Norvell is the Answer.
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Replies: 60
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