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Replies: 69
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Webmaster [∞]
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New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 2:15 PM
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110%er [6575]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016***
Feb 3, 2017, 2:21 PM
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Top TigerNet [29053]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016***
Feb 3, 2017, 2:27 PM
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I will be forwarding this to the Heisman Committee.
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TigerNet Elite [72597]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 2:26 PM
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In my opinion the best man did not win, the system is broken. I will shed no more tears about it. Everyone should move on.......I have!!!!
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Valley Legend [12312]
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TL;DR
Feb 3, 2017, 2:39 PM
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NULL.
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Orange Immortal [65122]
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truth.***
Feb 3, 2017, 2:47 PM
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Paw Warrior [4757]
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I read it, but...
Feb 3, 2017, 3:15 PM
[ in reply to TL;DR ] |
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These guys needed an English major to help them with the prose and the pacing. They could've used about 4x as many paragraphs, to break up the droning tone of their message. It was a laborious read, though well-intentioned. 3 out of 5 stars. Would not read again.
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Hall of Famer [8712]
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Re: I read it, but...
Feb 3, 2017, 5:12 PM
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Agreed. It was a very challenging read. Great content, poor presentation.
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Orange Blooded [2527]
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Re: I read it, but...
Feb 3, 2017, 6:03 PM
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I found it easy to read. I thought the writing was excellent.
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Clemson Conqueror [11163]
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Re: I read it, but...
Feb 6, 2017, 1:44 PM
[ in reply to I read it, but... ] |
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The original article was broken up more, and properly done. I believe it was condensed for space reasons. It's quite wordy.
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Clemson Conqueror [11163]
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Re: I read it, but...
Feb 6, 2017, 1:45 PM
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And, you don't place paragraphs for paragraphs sake. The paragraphs were placed properly when the narrative changed. The original article did this properly.
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Paw Master [17045]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 2:52 PM
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Those are the longest paragraphs know to literature.
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Freshman [7]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 2:54 PM
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I quit following this travesty after the way Peyton Manning was treaty!! Look at where he is today's!! Anybody remember who won that year.
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Fan [38]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 4:32 PM
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Charles Woodson. I hated that Peyton didn't win but at least Woodson was a legit player
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All-TigerNet [11860]
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Would this have been written if DW4 won?
Feb 3, 2017, 3:01 PM
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Even with the voters turning in early ballots?
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Scout Team [83]
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Yes, eventually. None of these arguments are new.
Feb 3, 2017, 3:13 PM
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Seems like I hear/read these same laments every year. Only the names of the authors and athletes change.
That doesn't mean the argument lacks validity...I think the authors are correct. Unoriginal perhaps, but correct.
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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Heisman Winner [81125]
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I like these professors a lot more
Feb 3, 2017, 3:10 PM
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than the dooshnozzle that tried to throw Dabo under the bus
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Athletic Dir [1126]
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Re: I like these professors a lot more
Feb 3, 2017, 3:17 PM
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If it's all about regular season stats why do we need voters? Just get computers to do it...then central michigan or Charleston southern could have a winner one year. Ridiculous!
Deshaun Watson embodies what this trophy should be about, and it's slow regression due to the Johnny manziels of the world is capped off with LJ being gifted a trophy when he could not hold DW's jockstrap. This makes it officially the new "chicken curse". Sad considering heisman coached here...he's rolled over in his grave a bunch over the last few years.
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Clemson Conqueror [11733]
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Re: I like these professors a lot more
Feb 3, 2017, 3:20 PM
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Agreed. But I sense the ESECPN morons will continue to drive the narrative. Let's all hope they don't drive their cars this way.
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Ring of Honor [23794]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Giving Latoya Jackson the Heisman was a joke.***
Feb 3, 2017, 3:33 PM
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Varsity [232]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 3:40 PM
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Everyone knows a mistake was made... some are just too vain to admit it. But giving credit where credit is do... some have also admitted a mistake was indeed made.
As one true Alabama fan put it after their loss: "we saw what a true dual threat looked like last night."
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Rock Defender [50]
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A very lonnnngggggg read, but true...
Feb 3, 2017, 4:03 PM
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The Heisman Trophy is a joke and I wonder what Lamar Jackson is thinking now... He knows he was not deserving after the performances DW4 had en route to bringing the National Championship Trophy back home to Clemson.
The year before should have set the tone. The 3 finalists were DW4, Derrick Henry and Christian McCaffrey. Derrick Henry was awarded the trophy. Last time I checked, the Heisman is not awarded to the best position player, but the best overall player in college football. IMO, had Derrick Henry been injured, Alabama could have simply reloaded from their stable of horses, i.e. Bo Scarbrough, and not miss a beat. We all know what Deshaun can do in the passing and running departments, plus coming up big in clutch situations. And McCaffrey seemed to be able to do it all - rushing, receiving, punt returns and even passing. It is crystal clear that DW4 and McCaffrey were the catalysts for their respective teams.
I, for one, have totally lost interest in the Heisman. As the authors have made clear, the award is tainted and needs to be cleaned up.
GO TIGERS!!!
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Orange Immortal [60185]
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Re: A very lonnnngggggg read, but true...
Feb 3, 2017, 7:12 PM
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I remember when it was said that a Heisman winner couldn't come from a team with 2 or 3 losses, that has now become a real laughing stock!!!Like I've said many times, the Heisman award goes to who ever was the choice of the media!!!
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Freshman [2]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 3:49 PM
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Great article and proves the point of ESPN being overrated.
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All-TigerNet [12666]
TigerPulse: 86%
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That award lost a ton of luster by not having Watson as the
Feb 3, 2017, 3:52 PM
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2016 winner. Their methods for choosing a winner were exposed as outdated, careless and whimsical. It's their loss, not Watson's.
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1st Rounder [645]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 3:53 PM
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I used to keep up with the Heisman race and who won, actually giving it credibility, that it amounted to something. That type of thinking will now be replaced a change of the channel.
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Athletic Dir [1179]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 4:18 PM
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It's called the Hypesman trophy now; John's gonna come back and haunt some posers and idiot voters.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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in 1980 USuCk's George Rogers won the Heisman
Feb 3, 2017, 4:25 PM
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and also participated in the greatest Clemson - USuCk game ever
as the 5-5 upstart Tigers demolished the 8-2 Coots by a score of 27-6.
in 1981 many of those same Tigers went out and won a first Natty for the school,
and in 2016 the Tigers got themselves another trophy.
please tell me again why the hail I would give a skunk's patootie about the Heisman Trophy...
haven't watched that inane presentation in 15 years.
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Clemson Conqueror [11733]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: in 1980 USuCk's George Rogers won the Heisman
Feb 3, 2017, 4:31 PM
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Honestly, I think giving a skunk's patootie would be way too much.
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Orange Immortal [60185]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: in 1980 USuCk's George Rogers won the Heisman
Feb 3, 2017, 7:19 PM
[ in reply to in 1980 USuCk's George Rogers won the Heisman ] |
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Good for you, I haven't watched since the CJ debacle. They, the voters couldn't have been that wrong by mistake, that was planed and carried out to the fullest. And to add insult to the travesty, they wouldn't even invite the true Heisman player to their fraud party!!!
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110%er [6938]
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Orange Blooded [2575]
TigerPulse: 90%
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You forgot to mention the most important thing
Feb 4, 2017, 7:22 AM
[ in reply to in 1980 USuCk's George Rogers won the Heisman ] |
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he shouldn't have won it. Herschel should have, had better stats and impact, but they gave preference to Rogers b/c he was a senior.
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Scout Team [171]
TigerPulse: 94%
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LJ effectively locked down the Heisman . . .
Feb 3, 2017, 4:51 PM
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when Louisville hung 63 on Florida State. In fact, Louisville was penciled into the College Football Playoff that day too, but then they ran into a buzzsaw in Death Valley on October 15. Yet, even after Louisville came out on the losing end 42-36, all the scuttlebutt from the pundits & self-styled "experts" was that "the better team lost" or that "Louisville got robbed by the officials". Afterward, whenever Louisville blew out some team, it was just more validation of a decision that had already been made. And whenever Louisville struggled against a purportedly "lesser" opponent but came back to win - remember their 32-25 win against UVa - that was spun as a "Heisman moment". And when Louisville started to fade down the stretch, losing to Houston & then Kentucky, that didn't even get talked about - this race is over; just get those Heisman ballots in now!
Clemson & DW4, by contrast, were regarded with suspicion, contempt even, by the same cadre of talking heads all season long. As the authors noted, they latched on to less-than-spectacular performances against Auburn & Troy (a game in which we had some issues with our O-line) to build a narrative that "Watson had regressed" & that
Clemson was not a "playoff-caliber team". The overtime win against N.C. State just fed this narrative further, especially after Louisville blew them out the following week. (That one especially hurt DW4's chances, because millions of people were watching a game we almost lost & in which he threw a pick-6.) Frankly, I suspect this attitude had its roots in an anti-ACC bias among much of the college football pundit class, who were skeptical of us because we were failing to blow out every ACC opponent we faced, while Louisville (for a time at least) was. As we all know, Dabo Swinney has never deliberately run up the score on an outmatched opponent, while Bobby Petrino won't hesitate to do it. Perhaps this factored in as well - that we never tried for "style points".
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Paw Master [16793]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Great article that says it all but I do have this one....
Feb 3, 2017, 5:52 PM
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...conjecture. It has no basis and I'm only writing it here because I had been wondering....
Does DW4 giving praise to God for his success have an effect that is negative in the minds of some voters? I do know there are certainly some folks who get in a tizzy when "God" in mentioned.
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CU Medallion [18256]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Good question. I would be surprised if it played much of...
Feb 3, 2017, 7:42 PM
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...a role in most voter's minds, but I'm not naive enough to think it did not have at least a minor effect on some of the 929 ballots. Who knows? Just my guess.
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110%er [6321]
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Scout Team [171]
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That didn't prevent Tim Tebow or Eric Crouch from winning it
Feb 3, 2017, 8:24 PM
[ in reply to Great article that says it all but I do have this one.... ] |
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Why would one would reflexively assume that a player's public expressions of faith would be held against him in such a manner? There's certainly no evidence to suggest that this was the case.
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Valley Protector [1480]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Changes
Feb 3, 2017, 10:02 PM
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MUCH has changed in America since those days..remember the camera cutting away from Dabo when he was thanking God, I believe after the ND game last year. Americas thoughts on religion have changed for the worse. And that's sad.
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1st Rounder [645]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Changes
Feb 4, 2017, 10:55 AM
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I don't so much agree that Americas attitudes on religion has changed as much as the media trying hard to sell an agenda.
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1st Rounder [645]
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Re: Changes
Feb 4, 2017, 10:58 AM
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Have...
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Asst Coach [875]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 6:18 PM
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This year's Heisman proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the award is a joke, period. DW4 earned the prize he really wanted, the one he and his teammates won on the field, the Natty.
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Associate AD [1013]
TigerPulse: 100%
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CJ Spiller also says "Hey!"
Feb 3, 2017, 6:53 PM
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I lost all interest in the award when our man, CJ, didn't even receive an invitation to the award ceremony.
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Hall of Famer [20289]
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He didn't receive an invitation because he wasn't a Finalist
Feb 6, 2017, 3:08 PM
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And the finalists are chosen by votes. I learned that while researching the Finalists this season. Once I read the process, it made me much less angry about CJ being "snubbed" as we have said all this time.
4. How are the finalists determined?
This is one of the most misunderstood parts of the Heisman process. You will often hear media or fans complain that a certain player was snubbed by not being invited to the Heisman ceremony. But the finalists are not determined arbitrarily. Starting from the understanding that there will always be a minimum of three finalists, whether or not more will be invited is determined by how close the fourth-place finisher's point total is to that of the third place finisher's, how close the fifth-place finisher's is to that of the fourth-place finisher's and so on.
In the 2008 Heisman vote, for instance, Florida's Tim Tebow finsihed third with 1,575 points. The fourth-place finisher, Graham Harrell of Texas Tech, totaled 213 points. Because of the huge gap between those totals, Harrell was not invited to the ceremony, which featured just three finalists. In 2010, Kellen Moore's fourth place finish of 635 points brought him much closer to LaMichael James' third-place finish of 916, so Moore was included as one of the four finalists. The fifth-place finisher in 2010, Justin Blackmon of Oklahoma State, had just 105 points. There was a clear demarcation of support between him and Moore, so the finalists were capped at four.
In other words, the closeness of the point totals determines the final number of finalists. Where major gaps exist, that's where you get a cutoff.
http://heisman.com/sports/2014/9/15/GEN_0915140346.aspx
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Orange Immortal [60185]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 7:02 PM
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Clemson has had in the last decade Two True Heisman football players, and both of them was embarrassingly over look by true to the word bias voters that wouldn't know a Heisman candidate if they were ran over by one. The Heisman Trophy award has become nothing more than a POS trophy voted for by more POS calling them selves sport announcers and sport enthusiast. A total blind person could sit in a stadium and listen to the reaction of the crowd and tell who the best player was, better than Heisman voters could that watched and listen to game....
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Paw Master [16793]
TigerPulse: 100%
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But LJ hurdled a 'cuse player!
Feb 3, 2017, 7:04 PM
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Those 'cuse players are virtually unhurdleable.
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Game Day Hero [4369]
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Re: But LJ hurdled a 'cuse player!
Feb 4, 2017, 1:08 AM
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Great comment. Literally made me LOL.
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All-Conference [433]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 3, 2017, 7:35 PM
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I predicted that Watson would be Clemson's first Heisman winner his senior year of high school. I stand by that. He was clearly the best player in the country. Jackson didn't win the Heisman. He was anointed with it.
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All-In [27366]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Only one that can't even pose like the trophy.
Feb 3, 2017, 8:55 PM
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Pretender. Perfidious. Pitiful.
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CU Guru [1270]
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That will be a 30 for 30 Story one day.
Feb 4, 2017, 6:58 AM
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ESPN could take this well-written article and make a 30 for 30 special immediately. Thanks Guys!
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Clemson Conqueror [11142]
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Like that is going to happen, when Espin is the biggest
Feb 4, 2017, 7:32 AM
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perpetrator of the fraud!
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Orange Blooded [2575]
TigerPulse: 90%
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While I appreciate the effort
Feb 4, 2017, 7:32 AM
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the reality is that the article is written by 2 Clemson professors so it's a waste of time in the sense of influencing people nationally with an unbiased POV. Deshaun's INT's and slow first half really hurt him, and the Heisman doesn't recognize the best player in the country down the stretch b/c of early voting. Not sure if our professors brought up anything new. If anything the award should emphasize the lost and forgotten phrase "excellence with integrity" embedded within its description.
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Paw Master [16982]
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Re: While I appreciate the effort
Feb 4, 2017, 7:47 AM
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Well, a L'ville alum isn't going to write the article. All points raised are valid. LJ may be the absolute worst selection in ages. He was a one-man show. Virtually any player who is a one-man show can pile up stats. LJ had zero Heisman moments, unless you want to count the last second heave versus UVA. That's it. DW4 had more moments than all of the other finalists combined...not even close. No one will remember LJ ten years from now...but folks will still be talking about DW4...and watching his magic performed weekly.
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Rock Defender [73]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 4, 2017, 7:44 AM
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Yea the heisman is a joke anymore. I always heard best player in college football.....Deshaun. Then it became best player on best team..... again Deshaun.so now it is who espn thinks is the eye test guy. Done with heisman trophy , even though some day I think a Clemson guy will win it . It is broken
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Varsity [201]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 4, 2017, 8:23 AM
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Numbness comment is spot on. Check last year's Sports Illustrated covers with Clemson on them versus this years. Night and day difference in occurrences. The media is after "new" and "fresh". Clemson became "old hat". And they made these voters feel that way about Watson. Watson should have won - no question.
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Rival Killer [2916]
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Re: New Story: The Great Heisman Heist of 2016
Feb 4, 2017, 8:57 AM
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Points are well made and true, but I started to get disinterested when I kept reading the same points over and over, just stated in different ways. This seems like a second draft that needed a third party to edit it way down to make it more succinct and thus, powerful.
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Standout [337]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Jackson also fumbled & lost the game to UK
Feb 4, 2017, 9:52 AM
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And had poor showings in other games at the end of the season: Houston.
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Oh snap, dis crazy y'all.***
Feb 4, 2017, 10:02 AM
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Standout [312]
TigerPulse: 81%
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Clemson should decline any future Heisman award invitations
Feb 4, 2017, 10:08 AM
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It's obviously not for the best college athlete any more.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: Clemson should decline any future Heisman award invitations
Mar 28, 2017, 10:13 AM
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Best idea I have heard !
LOVE IT
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Ring of Honor [23488]
TigerPulse: 100%
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The short version...
Feb 4, 2017, 11:17 AM
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Clemson's guy didn't win. The process is problematic. We are mad. Something should be done to prevent this from happening again.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103579]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I gave the phone to my son
Feb 4, 2017, 2:51 PM
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He's in second grade and thinks he can read and comprehend anything. I told him if he could read this AND understand it AND recall it, he can skip vocabulary and English until college. He didn't last long.
Probably one of the most pedantically written pieces on sports I've ever read. Not surprised they're history professors. At all.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103579]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I gave the phone to my son
Feb 4, 2017, 2:51 PM
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He's in second grade and thinks he can read and comprehend anything. I told him if he could read this AND understand it AND recall it, he can skip vocabulary and English until college. He didn't last long.
Probably one of the most pedantically written pieces on sports I've ever read. Not surprised they're history professors. At all.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103579]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2002
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tiggity
Feb 4, 2017, 2:51 PM
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He's in second grade and thinks he can read and comprehend anything. I told him if he could read this AND understand it AND recall it, he can skip vocabulary and English until college. He didn't last long.
Probably one of the most pedantically written pieces on sports I've ever read. Not surprised they're history professors. At all.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103579]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
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Joined: 2002
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tiggity
Feb 4, 2017, 2:51 PM
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He's in second grade and thinks he can read and comprehend anything. I told him if he could read this AND understand it AND recall it, he can skip vocabulary and English until college. He didn't last long.
Probably one of the most pedantically written pieces on sports I've ever read. Not surprised they're history professors. At all.
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Clemson Conqueror [11142]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
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Joined: 2014
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You can say that again!!!***
Feb 5, 2017, 2:52 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11163]
TigerPulse: 100%
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That, was the greatest article ever!
Feb 6, 2017, 1:43 PM
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The only thing I would have added was the difference in character. Deshaun being the kid you pray your daughter brings home. Lamar being the one you run out of the house with a shotgun. We were blessed with Watson for three years. We may NEVER witness such greatness again!! Thank you, Deshaun! You're my Heisman winner!!
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Freshman [10]
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Re: That, was the greatest article ever!
Mar 28, 2017, 10:08 AM
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Agree , very well writte, concise and and to me , absolutely no question. Changes should be made.
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1st Rounder [619]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Can we stop being butt hurt over this? He got the trophy he
Mar 28, 2017, 10:18 AM
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wanted!
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CU Guru [1947]
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I posted this on Dec 30th....
Mar 28, 2017, 10:31 AM
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After these playoffs are over and we've won the NC,
Posted: Dec 30, 2016 12:01 PM
mark my word, all of the national talking heads are going to be lobbying for the Heisman voting to be moved after the bowls are over. You heard it first here.
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