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Dynasty Maker [3128]
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Game Changer [1639]
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Empty cans always rattle the loudest.
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Jan 24, 2025, 8:51 AM
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A ignorant fool is always quick to let you know.
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Rival Killer [2665]
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Thanks for the heads up***
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Jan 24, 2025, 2:37 PM
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Game Changer [1639]
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You finally showed up I see.
Jan 24, 2025, 10:05 PM
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Nm
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Orange Immortal [68736]
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Brownell is a fine coach...
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Jan 24, 2025, 8:59 AM
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if you're perfectly content with fourteen years of largely inconsistent and mediocre results.
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Orange Phenom [14985]
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Re: Brownell is a fine coach...
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:02 AM
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What about post Littlejohn Facility upgrades?
There is a difference...
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Orange Immortal [68736]
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You men like that time...
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5
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:10 AM
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during the 2022-23 season when Clemson was left out of the NCAA Tournament field because of a handful of head scratching Quad 3 and 4 losses, and then got embarrassed by Morehead State in the first round of the NIT as a double digit favorite at home?
Just axing for a friend.
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All-In [10775]
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Re: You men like that time...
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:38 AM
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during the 2022-23 season when Clemson was left out of the NCAA Tournament field because of a handful of head scratching Quad 3 and 4 losses, and then got embarrassed by Morehead State in the first round of the NIT as a double digit favorite at home?
Just axing for a friend.
I would counter with a sweet 16 and elite 8 appearance also noting in 22-23, he won 23 games and tied for 3rd in the conference. If you think we will all of a sudden become Duke or Kentucky, you will be disappointed. What CBB has built since LJ was remodeled and funding for NIL became a thing, is a good basketball program that we can be proud of unless your only goal is to fire our basketball coach.
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Dynasty Maker [3575]
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Re: You men like that time...
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Jan 24, 2025, 1:40 PM
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Brownell is coaching in the midst of probably the worst stretch of ACC basketball history. There are a grand total of 3 ACC teams in the top 30 with us being 30 and Louisville at 25.
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Game Day Hero [4501]
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Re: You men like that time...
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Jan 24, 2025, 5:08 PM
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2 things can be true at once...
yes, the acc is down. BUT, Brad Brownell is great coach who is well-respected among college basketball. He has taken Clemson, with a dismal basketball history, and put as a contender for the tournament year in and year out.
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Top TigerNet [28124]
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Orange Immortal [68736]
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So in your mind...
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Jan 24, 2025, 11:31 AM
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two solid years erases the 11 or 12 previous years of mediocrity and inconsistency? Admittedly, things appear to be trending in a positive direction. It's just unclear if CBB is improving or the rest of the league has regressed.
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Game Changer [1952]
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Re: So in your mind...
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Jan 24, 2025, 11:59 AM
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“unclear if CBB is improving or the rest of the league has regressed.”
If you watch Clemson’s participation in March madness last year, things will be / should be a little more clear for you.
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Orange Immortal [68736]
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I've watched very closely over the last 14 years...
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Jan 24, 2025, 2:22 PM
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and nothing I've seen convinces me that CBB, on his best day, is anything other than an average coach.
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Tiger Spirit [9969]
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Valley Legend [12521]
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Go on twitter and respond to PJ directly if you disagree even better,
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to Brownell is a fine coach... ] |
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don’t do it anonymously let him know who you are big guy
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Ultimate Tiger [33012]
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i would gladly if PJ Hall wants to post on tnet..
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Jan 24, 2025, 10:31 AM
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i refuse to install twitter, tig tog, or Facebook
this is the only social media i do.
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Valley Legend [12521]
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Then why engage in discussion about things you have no desire to be a part of?
Jan 24, 2025, 11:03 AM
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If all of those things are evil then just ignore everything that happens on em.
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Ultimate Tiger [33012]
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your post (the 1 i responded to) wasn't about the evils of social media
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Jan 24, 2025, 11:33 AM
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it was about responding to PJ hall directly which i would gladly do on TNet.
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Valley Legend [12521]
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The whole thread pertains to something posted on Twitter
Jan 24, 2025, 12:19 PM
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You responded to the OP not just my post.
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Ultimate Tiger [33012]
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i responded to the OP's topic with a post to the OP***
Jan 24, 2025, 12:27 PM
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TigerNet Icon [148306]
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Which happens to be on Tnet.***
Jan 24, 2025, 2:58 PM
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CU Guru [1503]
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Re: Brownell is a fine coach...
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Jan 24, 2025, 1:07 PM
[ in reply to Brownell is a fine coach... ] |
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So illinformed.
We feel slightly sorry for you.
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Orange Phenom [14343]
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Re: Brownell is a fine coach...
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Jan 24, 2025, 1:46 PM
[ in reply to Brownell is a fine coach... ] |
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We had a good year last year and we are doing great this year. I am very happy with where we are today and feel strong about the future. There is no reason to complain about the state of the current program.
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Dynasty Maker [3179]
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You should have just stopped at BroWnell is a fine coach
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Jan 24, 2025, 3:59 PM
[ in reply to Brownell is a fine coach... ] |
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Instead you had to show you are clueless. Have you seen the history of Clemson basketball? Have you seen the lack of fan support and the constant haters who love to bash BroWnell and his program? Closing in his third straight 20-win season. Purnell did four in a row. Nobody else came close. And BroWnell has had just one losing season and has produced more 20-win seasons than any other Clemson coach. Go and ahead and spew -- because he's been here the longest and the ACC sucks. You are pathetic. And yes the W is capitalized for a reason.
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Dynasty Maker [3491]
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No, Cobb, YOU are pathetic.
Jan 24, 2025, 4:07 PM
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1. History has NOTHING to do with current state and potential.
2. The basketball program has plenty of support. Certainly enough money and fans to CONSISTENTLY succeed at the highest levels.
3. You’re right - the ACC is a shell of what it once was and you have to be an idiot to not understand that affects Brads numbers.
With the elite 8 last year, maybe we can say, after 14 subpar seasons, that Brad is doing the job he’s expected to do. Now, can he do it consistently? The jury is out.
Btw, are you capable of being less of a divisive hack-A?
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Ultimate Tiger [33012]
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Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:03 AM
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and so do people on Wikipedia . i accept both as facts.
Clemson Tigers 2010–present
2010–11 Clemson 22–12 9–7 T–4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2011–12 Clemson 16–15 8–8 7th
2012–13 Clemson 13–18 5–13 11th
2013–14 Clemson 23–13 10–8 6th
2014–15 Clemson 16–15 8–10 T–9th
2015–16 Clemson 17–14 10–8 T–7th
2016–17 Clemson 17–16 6–12 12th
2017–18 Clemson 25–10 11–7 T–3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2018–19 Clemson 20–14 9–9 T–8th
2019–20 Clemson 16–15 9–11 9th
2020–21 Clemson 16–8 10–6 T–5th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2021–22 Clemson 17–16 8–12 10th
2022–23 Clemson 23–11 14–6 T–3rd
2023–24 Clemson 24–12 11–9 T–5th NCAA Division I Elite Eight
2024–25 Clemson 16–4 8–1
Clemson: 280–193 (.592) 136–127 (.517)
Total: 447–278 (.617)
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Orange Phenom [14985]
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Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:08 AM
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But again look at before 2016-17 and after when upgrades on facilities. There is a difference especially if make the NCAAT again this March.
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Paw Warrior [4667]
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Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:18 AM
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The past two years has shown BB was figured out the transfer portal. I give him credit for using it to his advantage. With that being said if the portal didn’t exist he’d be gone by now. I will say I’m going to wipe the pre portal years out of my brain now because it appears he’s figured it out. Time will tell.
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Legend [7093]
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Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:20 AM
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but the portal is a thing, so your argument is moot
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Ultimate Tiger [33012]
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Dynasty Maker [3179]
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He is meeting everyone's expectations
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Jan 24, 2025, 4:01 PM
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Except for the Lunatic Fringe.
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Dynasty Maker [3491]
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One good year isnt enough to say hes meeting expectations.
Jan 24, 2025, 4:10 PM
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Runs in the NCAAT should be expected with the support the program has.
The only thing Brad has been consistent at is being inconsistent. Let’s see how this season goes before you crown him anything but slightly above mediocre, because in reality that’s what the body of work shows. Let’s at least see two consecutive seasons of success before you carry on with the divisive jerk schtick.
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All-In [10775]
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Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet ] |
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The past two years has shown BB was figured out the transfer portal. I give him credit for using it to his advantage. With that being said if the portal didn’t exist he’d be gone by now. I will say I’m going to wipe the pre portal years out of my brain now because it appears he’s figured it out. Time will tell.
By figuring it out, do you mean being given sufficient funds to bring in quality talent? I ask as the portal is not a riddle to be solved but the coach has to have the NIL funding to be able to compete.
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All-American [559]
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Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
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Jan 24, 2025, 12:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet ] |
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"If the portal didn't exist" lol. Yeah and if we didn't recruit elite QBs we wouldn't have any football national titles in the 2010s either, but we did and we do.
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Ultimate Tiger [33012]
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there's always going to be something
Jan 24, 2025, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet ] |
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luckily i don't have to make $20 mil decisions like this.
i don't even want to so Nef doesn't have to worry about me coming after his job.
I don't see any perks worth my while outside of getting better seats and parking for all my family and friends.
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Game Day Hero [4512]
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Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
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Jan 24, 2025, 9:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet ] |
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I dont think it had nearly as much to do with facilities as some want to claim.
One could point to the increased wins the first 2 years after LJ and make the connection that was the driver. But then how would you explain the pretty big dip the next 3 years (Y/E 18-20)? Did LJ all of a sudden lose it magic? BB averaged 16 wins those 3 years and 17 before LJ was updated.
Also if you draw that line you suggested BB went from a 55% coach before LJ updates to a 62% winner since, or about 2.25 games per year better. We are for sure slightly better recently but I think its more NIL and Portal than LJ upgrade or him being more than a very average coach.
If we have no vision of winning ACC titles with some frequency or ever threatening for a NC, then we just have to admit we collectively have settled for 'average'.
This is BB year to win a ACC title, its do or die time because I suspect the ACC rebounds as a whole in the coming years.
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CU Medallion [19725]
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Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
Jan 24, 2025, 10:32 AM
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I definitely agree that the portal has been a real boon for Brownell. He's experienced a lot of defections over the years from his HS recruiting and he can now plug in those gaps with immediacy instead of being a cycle behind. Having more success overall with the program as a result may also better incentivize our homegrowns to stick around longer.
It was a tough decade plus as a fan - but what's past is past. The overall game and mechanism has evolved in a way that Brad can better mesh with it seems - so good for us.
Go Tigers! Beat the Hokies!
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Tiger Titan [48400]
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Paw Master [17534]
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Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
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Jan 24, 2025, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet ] |
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The much bigger difference is post-portal and NIL. It is clear that he is adept at finding players who fit his system and acclimate quickly. This benefits him because he has a long track record or being very poor at developing first year players. It allows him to maintain a higher performance standard while putting less pressure on freshmen. The question becomes how good is he capable of making his team through this method. The ACC no longer offers any kind of litmus test. If we make an early exit from the post season, 15 years and the 2nd highest salary in the conference is an awfully big investment for someone whose high water mark is an elite 8 and one back-to-back NCAA appearance.
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Hall of Famer [8403]
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Dynasty Maker [3512]
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Re: Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet
Jan 24, 2025, 10:11 AM
[ in reply to Hall has the right to post his opion on the internet ] |
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and so do people on Wikipedia . i accept both as facts.
Clemson Tigers 2010–present
2010–11 Clemson 22–12 9–7 T–4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2011–12 Clemson 16–15 8–8 7th
2012–13 Clemson 13–18 5–13 11th
2013–14 Clemson 23–13 10–8 6th
2014–15 Clemson 16–15 8–10 T–9th
2015–16 Clemson 17–14 10–8 T–7th
2016–17 Clemson 17–16 6–12 12th
2017–18 Clemson 25–10 11–7 T–3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2018–19 Clemson 20–14 9–9 T–8th
2019–20 Clemson 16–15 9–11 9th
2020–21 Clemson 16–8 10–6 T–5th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2021–22 Clemson 17–16 8–12 10th
2022–23 Clemson 23–11 14–6 T–3rd
2023–24 Clemson 24–12 11–9 T–5th NCAA Division I Elite Eight
2024–25 Clemson 16–4 8–1
Clemson: 280–193 (.592) 136–127 (.517)
Total: 447–278 (.617)
Huh...so if you consider it like this...we have pretty good odds that Brownell makes it to the Sweet 16 when making the big dance.
Half his appearances are Round of 64 and the other half is Sweet 16 or better. Do any coaches have a 50% shot of making Sweet 16 or better in the postseason? Brownell might be in rare company. Not bad 😂
[I'm gonna post this now - if you want to argue look in the mirror because I'm simply poking fun that half our tourney appearances under Brownell are Sweet 16 or better which is kind of neat.]
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Ultimate Tiger [33012]
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Paw Master [17534]
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Re: this is the best i could find to answer your question
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Jan 24, 2025, 11:18 AM
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Put another way he makes weekend two of the NCAA 50% of 29% of the time. That’s not good enough (imo) to be the longest tenured coach and highest known salary in the conference (Duke salary is unknown but I don’t think reports they are paying $9+ million credible). It’s time for hardware.
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All-American [559]
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Re: this is the best i could find to answer your question
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Jan 24, 2025, 12:04 PM
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So what's the solution? Fire the guy who is 8-1 in league and going to win 20+ games for the third year in a row... which has only happened once ever at Clemson?
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Ring of Honor [22398]
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National Champion [7799]
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personally, i'm happy with where we are in hoops
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Jan 24, 2025, 10:29 AM
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we've never been upper echelon in the ACC (for the majority of my life.) We were perennially in the bottom 3rd. So to be competitive for a chance at March Madness is as good as it has ever been here at Clemson. BB has a pretty good grip on how to fill needs with the portal and the guys he recruits are better than when i was at school there (Shyatt.) And when i watch I feel like we should have a legitimate chance to win.
Anyone complaining these days are just doing it out of habit i guess.
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Playmaker [353]
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Re: personally, i'm happy with where we are in hoops
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Jan 24, 2025, 11:47 AM
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the ACC has been a way better conference for all my life, i was a freshman in 89 when THE ACC was loaded . The current ACC is a joke so finishing in the top 1/3 is not much of a goal this year. The fact that we are 16-4 and not even ranked tells you all you need to know. we are viewed as an average team in a terrible conference. time will tell if the experts are right about us or not. Brownell has benefitted from the portal and recent guys like Hunter and HALL but he is still an average coach. Seeing him play with 6 players or not even realizing the shot clock was at 7 the other day at Pitt just proves this. Too many times we come out of timeouts and have a ### possession. I am sorry but that is a direct reflection on coaching . Just think about it, how can a team be 16-4 in the ACC and be unranked???? I am afraid the experts without orange colored glasses on see something we dont. hope i am wrong but time will tell.
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Dynasty Maker [3179]
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You
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Jan 24, 2025, 4:03 PM
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are wrong.
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Game Changer [2006]
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Tiger Spirit [9838]
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Re: PJ Hall responding to your average basketball "fan" on tigernet
Jan 24, 2025, 11:50 AM
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If PJ Hall actually had a trophy from his time playing under Brownell I'd be more inclined to believe him
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Game Day Hero [4512]
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Re: PJ Hall responding to your average basketball "fan" on tigernet
Jan 24, 2025, 12:00 PM
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Perhaps he is just happy he didnt get the Joe Girard treatment?
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TigerNet Icon [148306]
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He grew up a Tiger.
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Jan 24, 2025, 1:10 PM
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Varsity [146]
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Re: PJ Hall responding to your average basketball "fan" on tigernet
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Jan 24, 2025, 1:24 PM
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You can make the arguments that Clemson has improved over the years under Brownell and the ACC has dropped off to a degree. For instance, attached is a trend plot of the relative ranking of ACC teams from the 2011-12 season until this season. This ranking represents the ranking from an analysis that compiled the offensive and defensive efficiency of teams in those respective seasons. The highlighted trends are for Clemson and the median ACC ranking (due to the skewness in the data). You can easily see that Clemson has improved particularly from the 2016-17 season until now with a couple blips. However, you will also note that the median ranking of the ACC teams drops from the 2018-19 season.
Source: https://evanmiya.com/?team_ratings
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Game Changer [2006]
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Re: PJ Hall responding to your average basketball "fan" on tigernet
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Jan 24, 2025, 5:25 PM
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Thanks for posting. I love that PJ and others still speak up when they don’t have too.
Go Tigers!
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Playmaker [353]
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Re: PJ Hall responding to your average basketball "fan" on tigernet
Jan 24, 2025, 7:29 PM
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Brad please just focus on VaTech tomorrow and get off the message boards . Are you actually arguing that the ACC is actually a good league ?
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Game Changer [2006]
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Re: PJ Hall responding to your average basketball "fan" on tigernet
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Jan 24, 2025, 7:38 PM
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Shouldn’t you be making another post about how bad we suck while winning games? Need some examples?
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Freshman [1]
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Re: PJ Hall responding to your average basketball "fan" on tigernet
Jan 24, 2025, 11:39 PM
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Angry old guys on message boards never understand that their constant complaining EVEN when things are good make them look like this.
Valid critiques are fine but this idea that Brownell is some bum that needs to be fired today is laughable. It seems like a lot of people here are mad they are being laughed at.
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