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CU Medallion [19700]
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The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
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Feb 1, 2025, 7:17 PM
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The Answer: Yes.
He can't please everyone.
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Paw Master [17822]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
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Feb 1, 2025, 7:19 PM
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Yeah...pretty much most things we want him to do.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
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Feb 1, 2025, 9:21 PM
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We are to please Him, not Him please us.
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Paw Master [17822]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
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Feb 1, 2025, 9:26 PM
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Because he won't please us and he won't do what we want or wish, because there is nobody controlling that exactly, other than ourselves, timing, situations, genetics, intelligence, creativeness, but nobody in the sky. There may be a power in the universe, but praying is just a form of meditation for ourselves that can manifest into results, but it's just us.
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Top TigerNet [31807]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
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Feb 1, 2025, 11:14 PM
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It’s a funny joke but also a poignant observation…God’s ‘power’ stops at our Free Will.
He can’t make us think or do anything, and if he did, we’d no longer be us.
That is, if I hate broccoli and God makes me like broccoli by force or coercion or even influence or persuasion, am I still me? Because I don’t like broccoli.
There’s a bit of Theseus’s Ship in that too. How many planks do you have to replace before the ship is no longer the same ship?
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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And I'm totally, 100% fine with that.
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Feb 1, 2025, 11:31 PM
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But if so, we have to accept that means God is not all-powerful, and there are some things he cannot do. I'm just trying to understand how people can claim God is all-powerful and can do absolutely anything he wants, and then name things he can't do or had to do.
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Paw Master [17822]
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Re: And I'm totally, 100% fine with that.
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Feb 2, 2025, 12:16 AM
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If he exists he is either not all powerful, or all powerful and we don't really have a relationship with him. Either way it's up to us.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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And again, there are those on here who are playing a game by refusing to
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Feb 2, 2025, 1:03 PM
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answer that question "Is God all-powerful, or not?" by suggessting there may be other options. Or, they answer that he is indeed all-powerful, while at the same time claiming he has to do certain things, and can't do them any other way.
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CU Medallion [19700]
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Confusing the term "Can't do" with "Won't do" is the divide
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Feb 2, 2025, 1:56 PM
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Just because God won't do something does not mean He can't do it.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Of course it doesn't. Zero confusion there on my part.***
Feb 2, 2025, 7:46 PM
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I'm just stating what others are claiming. I have provided direct quotes.
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National Champion [7118]
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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And the answer to that is very simple and easy, and doesn't require any deep
Feb 4, 2025, 10:39 AM
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philosophical theorizing or convoluted, twisted explanations. The answer is ...
If God is all-powerful, there is nothing he can't do, including making a rock he can't pick up. Otherwise, by definition, he's not all-powerful. Period.
And that's not ME placing limits on God. Words have meaning, and "all-powerful" means what is says. Now, I would agree that we can't begin to fully comprehend God, and therefore human language can't adequately describe him; but that's an entirely different matter than whether or not God is all-powerful.
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Dynasty Maker [3236]
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Re: And the answer to that is very simple and easy, and doesn't require any deep
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Feb 4, 2025, 1:36 PM
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Being all powerful would not include doing things that are illogical or make something more powerful.
Like making a rock he CAN'T pick up. That would be making something more powerful, which would be impossible for an all powerful being.
You can't say a being is not all powerful because he doesn't have the power to create a being more powerful.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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I disagree.
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Feb 4, 2025, 9:34 PM
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If God had to allow sin, evil, hate, suffering, hell, or the devil as part of his creation, or had to sacrifice his own son before he could forgive man for sin (fulfill the law), all of which I've been told he had to do, then by definition (if he had to or had no choice) then there is something greater than him, something he can't do anything about, that limits him and his power.
FWIW, I've also been told that what we call logic does not apply to God, so he should not be limited by or subject to such a concept.
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Dynasty Maker [3236]
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Re: I disagree.
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Feb 5, 2025, 12:46 PM
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I agree with you about sin and pain and suffering. If he was all powerful he could stop that.
Supposedly it won’t be in heaven, so why not just create heaven from the start?
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National Champion [7118]
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Paw Master [17822]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
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Feb 2, 2025, 5:51 PM
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Explain?
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Dynasty Maker [3236]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
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Feb 2, 2025, 7:22 PM
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He believes in predestination…that god either chose you or didn’t. Based on Romans 8:
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”
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Rival Killer [3043]
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We have a choice in the matter....
Feb 3, 2025, 2:27 PM
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God's salvation is available to all of us. But we have to choose to receive it.
The bible is full of examples of humans exhibiting free will. Some to good effect, and some to bad.
Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."
Revelation 22:17
"The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life."
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Dynasty Maker [3236]
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Re: We have a choice in the matter....
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Feb 3, 2025, 2:52 PM
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This is what has always frustrated me. When two believers disagree and they both use scripture to validate their belief.
At what point do the passages become contradictory?
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Rival Killer [3043]
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Humans will always disagree on stuff.***
Feb 3, 2025, 3:56 PM
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Dynasty Maker [3236]
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Re: Humans will always disagree on stuff.***
Feb 3, 2025, 7:09 PM
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This seems like a pretty big deal…whether or not god chooses you or you have a choice yourself.
I’m not sure if Jesus ever said anything about predestination so basically this is just the words of Paul.
So is Romans the word of god? It seems to say what Reynolds believes it does.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Humans will always disagree on stuff.***
Feb 3, 2025, 9:07 PM
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I believe the Pauline Epistles are The inspired Word of God. You don't. We just have to disagree on that.
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Dynasty Maker [3236]
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Re: Humans will always disagree on stuff.***
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Feb 4, 2025, 6:39 AM
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I didn't say either way what I believed. What I'm getting at is how can two believers come to a different conclusion, both use the bible to prove their belief, but still simultaneously both believe they are reading the word of god?
The passage in Romans seems to confirm your belief in predestination, or at least that Paul believed it. If gosmitty doesn't believe in predestination, how can he still believe Romans is the word of god?
It literally says the word "predestinate".
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Humans will always disagree on stuff.***
Feb 4, 2025, 3:43 PM
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I just remember from past posts that you don't consider Paul's writings as inspired inerrant.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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This is a great example.
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Feb 5, 2025, 9:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: Humans will always disagree on stuff.*** ] |
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Good, honest people, who pray and study the Bible and go to church and do their very best to have a relationship with God and do his will, disagree about the Bible and what it says, what it is, and what it means.
What I see is people ultimately choosing, for one reason or another, to believe certain things about the Bible which fit their preconceived ideas and biases, and best satisfy their questions. And they all believe God is guiding them.
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Rival Killer [3043]
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Interesting comment in light of this discussion:
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Feb 5, 2025, 10:01 AM
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You said, "what I see is people ultimately choosing...."
That's Free Will right there.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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It sure seems so.
Feb 5, 2025, 10:28 AM
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Just one more example of something good, honest, devoted people disagree about.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: We have a choice in the matter....
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Feb 3, 2025, 9:10 PM
[ in reply to We have a choice in the matter.... ] |
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The Calvinism vs Arminianism debate has raged since Arminius. We won't settle it here.
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National Champion [7118]
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110%er [3836]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
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Feb 3, 2025, 5:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do? ] |
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If you have no free will, and God ordains ALL that comes to pass as Calvinists believe, including sin, how are you responsible for your sin?
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
Feb 3, 2025, 9:15 PM
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Man is responsible because God says man is responsible.
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110%er [3836]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
Feb 4, 2025, 3:45 PM
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That sounds less like Scripture and more like what John Calvin would say.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do?
Feb 4, 2025, 3:49 PM
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We could debate part of this, but mans responsibility for his sin is not debatable.
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National Champion [7118]
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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One of the books that was written by man and chosen to be included
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Feb 4, 2025, 9:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Question: Is there anything God cannot do? ] |
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in the canon many years later by other men says that God says so. It also says he isn't (predestination).
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101133]
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He can't lie.
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Feb 2, 2025, 1:42 PM
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In fact, If he says it whatever it is becomes true. While we think in terms such that what we believe is true actually what we call truth may be false. If we can see how truth is relative to what we believe we relate what God says is relative to what God believes to be true, or perhaps what He knows to be true.
It's not. God is not relative to truth; truth is relative to Him. Along with truth being relative to God so is holiness, virtue, love and many other things we think are relative to how we define those terms.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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There you go! So he is not all-powerful. I know it pains you to say so, but it's
Feb 2, 2025, 7:59 PM
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sad to watch you twist and dance so desperately to make it make sense. I definitely respect your commitment and refusal to accept anything that challenges your belief. But, nothing you said there disputes or changes this:
You named something God CAN'T do. You named one of his limitations. You said God is not all-powerful without saying it. You just can't admit it.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101133]
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What I believe is not a factor of truth.
Feb 3, 2025, 6:02 AM
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Before God saved me I believed as you believe. My family moved during every school year except the 2, 11 and 12th years. I walked to church because we only had one car and my my mother didn't drive. We walked to the nearest church which was often a Church of God or Baptist.
I, like you, knew church doctrine. I visited many different denominations and adopted what I chose from several. During my first few teenage years I decided to do something other than church. I beieved what I believed which wasn't any further from the truth than most.
When I got saved I started reading the Bible in obedience to God. I was miserable except when the scripture reinforced the fact that Christ had saved me and at times the reading made me wonder if I was really saved or just trying to play the part.
One day God spoke to me while I read the passage from Corinthians 2:
"2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."
I wondered how such a great man, the source of much of the NT was able to say that so I prayed about it. God spoke to me and said 'You are going to unlearn everything you know and I am going to teach you all that I want you to know.
He's still working on that promise. My instruction textbook is the Bible. 2 Timothy:
" 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
What do you think I've studied, church doctrine? Common sense? Things written about the Bible by men? Opinions of preachers, teacher or those who assume positions of spiritual authority? Rationalizations to fit preconceived determinations?
I read such as those, listen to those who speak and even give thought to rationalizations, and preconceived determinations but when I weigh them on a balance with God's Word on the other side they more than often fall short of what God specifically instructed me to take my precepts from, His Word.
I hope all those who believe in Christ as their savior will take that attitude for those who don't are blown about by every wind of doctrine and easily deceived, misguided and certain to stumble.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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So, your beliefs are based on your unique experience, which resulted in your
Feb 3, 2025, 11:19 AM
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decision to accept your interpretation of a particular version of The Bible, and based on your belief that God was speaking to you and guiding you.
I think that's beautiful, and I respect that 100%. I can't dispute it or say you're wrong.
My only problem with that is, people can be led to believe pretty much anything if they abandon common sense and logic. I believe that looking inward (which is where we find God), and remembering that we are spiritual beings above all else is why we are here. We don't have to abandon common sense and logic to do that. In fact, I don't believe God gave us a brain just to trip us up and confuse us; I think it can prevent us from falling for nonsense and absurdities, and believing things that are wrong about God. Our "heart" and soul is the map, where we locate and connect with God, and our brain is the steering wheel that keeps you out of the ditches and going in the right direction.
Just my thoughts and opinions.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: There you go! So he is not all-powerful. I know it pains you to say so, but it's
Feb 4, 2025, 7:18 PM
[ in reply to There you go! So he is not all-powerful. I know it pains you to say so, but it's ] |
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Philosophers have dealt with this for thousands of years. The questions asked about God must be rational questions. One of the classic questions is "Can God kill himself?". It is an irrational question.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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It's also irrational to claim that God is all-powerful and then claim
Feb 4, 2025, 11:26 PM
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he's not, and then claim he's both.
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Rival Killer [2806]
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Get rid of cancer in children? Or cancers in general?
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Feb 2, 2025, 8:33 PM
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Or tsunamis that wipe out a quarter million people. Or quell evil. Or pretty much anything else negative.
There very well May be a god, but in my opinion he’s not as active in this world as many care to believe if so
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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God certainly doesn't prevent or end evil or suffering.
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Feb 2, 2025, 8:59 PM
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It's reasonable to ask why. In fact, I think it's unreasonable not to. We'll never really know in this life, but with common sense and simple logic, we can rule some things out. To suggest that we can't apply common sense and logic when trying to understand God would mean that virtually anything could be true about God, as we'd have no objective basis for eliminating any of them, aside from our own biased thoughts and feelings.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: God certainly doesn't prevent or end evil or suffering.
Feb 4, 2025, 4:30 PM
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I Cor 2:14
CSB
But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
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Top TigerNet [29021]
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He can't do anything that is logically impossible.
Feb 4, 2025, 7:17 PM
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He can't draw a square circle.
He can't make a stick with one end.
He can't dig half a hole.
He also cannot act contrary to His character.
For example, He can't lie.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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So, he is limited by the laws of logic that rule the physical universe
Feb 4, 2025, 10:12 PM
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he created. Sounds like he created something more powerful than him.
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Top TigerNet [29021]
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Nice try.
Feb 4, 2025, 10:33 PM
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When you have to resort to that sort of argument, it shows just how weak your position is.
But, thanks for playing.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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?***
Feb 4, 2025, 10:49 PM
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Top TigerNet [31807]
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Re: ?***
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Feb 5, 2025, 11:25 AM
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Your question is a pretty good one, and one asked by Einstein, too. That is, why are there universal laws at all, and not just 'magic?' Why is there a Sun, and not just 'light?' Why does the earth have to tilt to have seasons? Couldn't God just make seasons 'magically?'
Einstein's version of the question was more along the lines of "Having made laws for the universe, is God bound by them? And if not, then why have them at all?
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Re: ?***
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Feb 5, 2025, 12:28 PM
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I'm no Einstein, butt
I understand that, and I'm fine with that, and have been the whole time. My point is, if we take that position, that God is subject to his own laws, and can't break them, then we are declaring that God/God's power has limits, which means he is not all-powerful.
If that is not the case, and God's power has no limits, then nothing can happen without his consent, and he doesn't have to consent to anything.
I'm not saying it's one way or the other. My whole point is, it can't be both. Yet some seem to suggest that WE can't apply limiting qualities to God using limited human logic, and it very well could be both. That's absurd to me because part of THEIR premise is that God has limits. Futhermore, it means that logic and reason can't be used to rule out any claims made about God, no matter how absurd they may be.
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Top TigerNet [31807]
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Re: ?***
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Feb 5, 2025, 1:12 PM
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It's also impossible to say "God is all-powerful" without one knowing all things.
It's sort of like a jumble of puzzle pieces on a table, and I walk up and say "One piece is missing." How do I know, unless I know what the whole picture looks like when it's finished, and then I can see a piece is missing?
That is, one would have to know just as much as God, to fully assess if God knows everything. Or, be as powerful, to definitively say he's all powerful.
One could say he knows MORE than us, or is MORE powerful than us, but I don't think anyone can say he's 'ALL' anything, unless they are 'All' themselves.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: ?***
Feb 5, 2025, 4:43 PM
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Look at Num 23:19.
It does not say God can't lie, It says He won't.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Right. But, while we can't say God is all-powerful because we don't know
Feb 5, 2025, 5:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: ?*** ] |
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all things, and therefore there may be things he can't do, if we say there are things he can't do, then we are saying he is not all-powerful.
In other words, we can't possibly know if he's all-powerful, but we can know if he's not.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Right. But, while we can't say God is all-powerful because we don't know
Feb 5, 2025, 5:33 PM
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What, within the realm of logic, can He not do?
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Be both all-powerful and not all-powerful, as we understand "all-powerful".***
Feb 5, 2025, 6:31 PM
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Be both all-powerful and not all-powerful, as we understand "all-powerful".***
Feb 5, 2025, 6:36 PM
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He is all powerful. I have never said nor do I believe He is anything less than all powerful.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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You are 100% free to believe that, and it may very well be true.
Feb 6, 2025, 12:14 PM
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But, you can't possibly know that, it takes a leap of faith, and there's nothing wrong with that. If true, by definition, evil exists entirely by God's choice. If many souls suffer for eternity in the fires of hell, then that's true only and entirely by God's permission, or by his design, not because it's necessary for any reason.
I don't pretend to know the answer, but it seems that God wants evil and Satan and pain and eternal torment for some reason, even though he could accomplish any end goal without them.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: You are 100% free to believe that, and it may very well be true.
Feb 6, 2025, 12:32 PM
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His plan is His plan. His reasons are His reasons.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: ?***
Feb 5, 2025, 4:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: ?*** ] |
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God can do whatever He wants to do. He does not want to break His own laws. He is not Bi Polar or Schizophrenic.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Does he do things he doesn't want to do?***
Feb 5, 2025, 5:19 PM
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Does he do things he doesn't want to do?***
Feb 5, 2025, 5:26 PM
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Want is an abstract word, but God does what He wants to do and only what He wants to do.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Okay. God does whatever he wants, and only what he wants.
Feb 5, 2025, 6:29 PM
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So God wants to allow sin, satan, and hell, and he wanted Jesus to suffer and be a sacrifice before forgiving us of our sins. He doesn't/didn't have to do any of that. It's all what he wanted.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Okay. God does whatever he wants, and only what he wants.
1
Feb 5, 2025, 6:42 PM
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Yep. Sure did.
“It pleased the Lord to crush Him”
Isaiah 53:10
(Prophetic verse about the crucifixion)
I am a high Calvinist. My theology and soteriology has no problem with God being just who he is.
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Re: Okay. God does whatever he wants, and only what he wants.
Feb 5, 2025, 7:03 PM
[ in reply to Okay. God does whatever he wants, and only what he wants. ] |
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Isaiah 66:18-24
New International Version
18 “And I, because of what they have planned and done, am about to come[a] and gather the people of all nations and languages, and they will come and see my glory.
19 “I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations—to Tarshish, to the Libyans and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. They will proclaim my glory among the nations. 20 And they will bring all your people, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the Lord—on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels,” says the Lord. “They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the Lord in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites,” says the Lord.
22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
God reveals His Glory through His wrath and righteous judgment.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Wrath?
Feb 5, 2025, 8:18 PM
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Why would God be angry?
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Wrath?
Feb 5, 2025, 8:44 PM
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He is a wrathful God.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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About what?
Feb 5, 2025, 9:04 PM
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He knows everything that is going to happen, and he could prevent it from happening if he wanted to. Why would he be mad?
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: About what?
Feb 5, 2025, 9:11 PM
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He is a wrathful God.
He is a sovereign God.
He can be mad if He wants to be mad.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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But why would he be mad about something he knows is going to happen
Feb 5, 2025, 9:25 PM
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and then allows to happen? It sounds like he wants things to happen so he can be mad. Not saying he can't or shouldn't be; just clayifying and trying to understand.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: But why would he be mad about something he knows is going to happen
Feb 5, 2025, 9:38 PM
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I told you read Romans 9. God demonstrates His Glory in many ways. One of the ways He demonstrates His Glory is through His wrath.
Read the Exodus account where God showed His great glory by ravaging Pharaoh, whose heart He had hardened.
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Re: About what?
Feb 5, 2025, 9:14 PM
[ in reply to About what? ] |
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Read Romans 9.
His wrath demonstrates His Glory.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Interesting.
Feb 5, 2025, 10:18 PM
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His wrath is a conscious choice, made in advance to serve a purpose; that's not the way true wrath works, as we understand it. Wrath is vengeful anger that is the result of being wronged.
It's interesting to me that God would choose to allow sin and evil in the first place, and desires to be angry and wrathful, especially if it's so he can be glorified, and considering he could do it without all of that. I've never heard it put that way before, and have always been taught that God opposes those things, not wants them.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Interesting.
Feb 5, 2025, 11:11 PM
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You read Romans 9 yet?
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Yes.
Feb 6, 2025, 9:49 AM
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Paul is concerned that Jews are not accepting Jesus as Christ the savior. Salvation comes strictly from accepting Jesus as savior, embracing and following him as such. Merely adhering to Jewish law won't cut it.
Here's a summary of the whole book of Romans:
Book Summary
The book of Romans is the New Testament's longest, most structured, and most detailed description of Christian theology. Paul lays out the core of the gospel message: salvation by grace alone through faith alone. His intent is to explain the good news of Jesus Christ in accurate and clear terms. As part of this effort, Paul addresses the conflicts between law and grace, between Jews and Gentiles, and between sin and righteousness. As is common in his writing, Paul closes out his letter with a series of practical applications.
https://www.bibleref.com/Romans/9/Romans-chapter-9.html
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Yes.
Feb 6, 2025, 12:34 PM
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Did you read Romans 9?
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Yes***
Feb 6, 2025, 1:16 PM
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Yes***
Feb 6, 2025, 1:39 PM
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Then it should be pretty clear.
God is sovereign.
His love shows His Glory.
His wrath shows His Glory.
His mercy shows His Glory.
His justice shows His Glory.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Yes***
Feb 6, 2025, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to Yes*** ] |
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Romans 9:21
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Interesting.
Feb 6, 2025, 1:47 PM
[ in reply to Interesting. ] |
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God didn't author evil. God hates evil.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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And were right back to this . . .
Feb 6, 2025, 2:25 PM
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You agree that being all-powerful, and able to do absolutely anything he wants, he doesn't have to allow evil for any reason. He could accomplish absolutely anything without it.
Why does he allow it? Why does he allow anything he hates?
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Re: And were right back to this . . .
Feb 6, 2025, 2:34 PM
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Because that was His plan. Romans 9 tells you the vessels of wrath were for His Glory..
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Right. His plan all along was for us to suffer, completely unnecessarily, so
Feb 6, 2025, 3:02 PM
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he could be glorified. We are not here out of love, or to be loved; we are here to glorify God. If we don't, we will be punished with eternal suffering. Any love he may have for us is conditional, based on how well we do that.
While I don't agree with that, everyone is free to that opinion; most just won't come right out and say it, or even admit it to themselves.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Right. His plan all along was for us to suffer, completely unnecessarily, so
Feb 6, 2025, 3:16 PM
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Romans 11:33-36
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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I totally agree that we can't begin to comprehend and understand God.
Feb 6, 2025, 3:54 PM
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But, if we don't believe, rightly or wrongly, that he loves us, as we understand love, then we can't possibly be expected to love him, much less trust or believe him. Sure, we could respect him out of fear, but that's very different from love. Love can only happen naturally and with zero intent.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: I totally agree that we can't begin to comprehend and understand God.
Feb 6, 2025, 4:15 PM
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Our love is a reverential love.
Matthew 10:28
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Re: I totally agree that we can't begin to comprehend and understand God.
Feb 6, 2025, 5:49 PM
[ in reply to I totally agree that we can't begin to comprehend and understand God. ] |
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This is what it boils down to. You understand who Jehovah is. You understand what The Bible says. You disagree with how Jehovah rules His creation, so you are going to rebel and not submit to His Lordship.
You keep saying you don't understand. You understand, you just don't like God's rules.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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No, I don't think those are God's rules.***
Feb 6, 2025, 7:04 PM
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Re: No, I don't think those are God's rules.***
Feb 6, 2025, 7:24 PM
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You are a general atheist. You are seeking a God who confirms to what you think he should be. The God of the Bible does not fit in your box. Good luck finding the deity who conforms to your standards and expectations.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: No, I don't think those are God's rules.***
1
Feb 6, 2025, 7:25 PM
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I meant theist, not atheist. Spell check got me.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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None of us, including you, knows a whole lot about God.
Feb 6, 2025, 9:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: No, I don't think those are God's rules.*** ] |
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All we can do is use everything we've got, or perhaps everything God gave us, including knowledge, experience, feelings, observation, study, prayer, etc. to form and shape a concept of a God. You have done nothing different.
Yes, I'm human, and my unique life experience and brain chemistry shapes my thinking and my beliefs, including beliefs about God. Just like you and everybody else.
If God speaks to me or reveals something to me, in a way that leaves no doubt, then I'll be listening and following. But when other people tell me things about God, it gets filtered through all of the things mentioned above. Some of it is subconscious, but some of it is very intentional, and I don't apologize for that.
For those reasons, I respect your beliefs, even if I disagree.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: None of us, including you, knows a whole lot about God.
Feb 7, 2025, 10:32 AM
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Yep. What I am saying is the God you seek is not THe God of the Bible.
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Re: None of us, including you, knows a whole lot about God.
Feb 7, 2025, 12:49 PM
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I seek God, whatever he may be, the best way I know how. I think the Bible is a mixture of truly, divinely inspired spiritual truth, along with man's attempt to explain and understand God while saddled with the same limitations you and I and everybody else has. I think much of the Bible reflects those limitations, as well as the errors and biases that come with them.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: None of us, including you, knows a whole lot about God.
Feb 7, 2025, 1:00 PM
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Good luck in finding what you seek.
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Orange Immortal [63304]
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Re: None of us, including you, knows a whole lot about God.
Feb 7, 2025, 1:06 PM
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I'm in a good place, accepting of our limitations. Thank you for a sincere and reasonable discussion.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: None of us, including you, knows a whole lot about God.
1
Feb 7, 2025, 1:26 PM
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Thank you as well.
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National Champion [7118]
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Re: Okay. God does whatever he wants, and only what he wants.
Feb 5, 2025, 7:06 PM
[ in reply to Okay. God does whatever he wants, and only what he wants. ] |
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Romans 9:22-24
New International Version
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
We are saved for God's Glory.
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National Champion [7118]
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