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Webmaster [∞]
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New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 22, 2016, 7:01 AM
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Tiger Spirit [9287]
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find the best team in USA on kick
Feb 22, 2016, 7:16 AM
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Offs and returns. Hire him. Period. Also get a kicker that boots it out of endzone.
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CU Medallion [18892]
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this***
Feb 22, 2016, 8:18 AM
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: find the best team in USA on kick
Feb 22, 2016, 8:27 AM
[ in reply to find the best team in USA on kick ] |
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Facts is that the Tigers recruiting staff were given the name and film of one kid who kicked it off into the end zone virtually every time and to my knowledge he didn't get an offer. Maybe they brought in someone just a good but this candidate was capable of doing just what we want---literally zero returns unless the receiver team wants to gamble!
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Orange Immortal [68087]
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The NCAA limits the number of coaches...
Feb 22, 2016, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to find the best team in USA on kick ] |
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each team can have (nine) and Clemson is at the limit so barring someone getting fired, which isn't going to happen, hiring a special teams coach isn't an option.
That said, we do need to find a kicker who can boot it out of the end zone EVERY FRIGGIN' TIME.
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: The NCAA limits the number of coaches...
Feb 22, 2016, 9:07 AM
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The NCAA only limits the number of coaches that are "on the field" during games. A team can have as many as they want otherwise.
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Orange Immortal [68087]
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I believe that's paid coaches....
Feb 22, 2016, 10:07 AM
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so to navigate around the rule many programs, mostly from the $EC, have hired numerous "strength and conditioning" coaches which at one time, was not regulated by the NCAA, but now because of the $EC skirting the rules, it currently is.
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All-American [564]
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Re: find the best team in USA on kick
Feb 22, 2016, 9:20 AM
[ in reply to find the best team in USA on kick ] |
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I agree we need to find a kicker who consistently boots it out of the endzone. All too often big returns have occurred when the kicker kicked the ball short. Also for when we are the receiving team on an onside kick, we need guys out there who aren't afraid of getting hit. They need to attack the ball and not give the other team a shot at getting the ball. I know these things are easier said then done, but each one of these has occurred far too often for the last several years.
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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WHAT player have you seen that was afraid of getting hit?***
Feb 22, 2016, 9:42 AM
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Asst Coach [700]
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Kyle Parker
Feb 22, 2016, 10:17 AM
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 Just kidding...Not really!
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Legend [6896]
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Kyle Parker - injured - cracked ribs in Auburn game - was
Feb 22, 2016, 11:01 AM
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never the same again - not revealed until end of season. Have you ever had cracked ribs? One of the most painful injuries I have ever had. And he was speared as replays showed over and over. No flay by incompetent "acc" refs. Tigers would have won that game against National Champs Cam led team, and our season would have been so much better! Please don't scapegoat Kyle!
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Asst Coach [700]
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Valid Points, but...
Feb 22, 2016, 12:38 PM
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It was also clear that after the hit he realized that his baseball career could be jeopardized by a football injury and he played out the rest of the season afraid to take the hit. The coaches should have given more opportunity to Tajh Boyd.
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Walk-On [106]
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Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 22, 2016, 7:33 AM
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The article specifically states that Dabo can not go out and hire a special teams coach. Why is that? Why can't Dabo hire a special teams coach? What restrictions are there?
We have a ton of personnel that are dedicated to all types of things. Special teams does not take a third of the plays or a third of the clock, but it absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt influences the offense an defense. Just think about, if we did have a kicker that put it in the end zone a lot more consistently, those returns to the 40 yard line would be significantly less. Say the defense stops them and they punt. Now we are starting inside the 20 most times. Look and see how many times we started inside the 20 and had to drive the entire field. Some of these times we settled for a field goal. What if we would have started on the 40, would we have gotten in, would the kick be more manageable? No one will ever know, however the point is, special teams is a very critical component of every football team that can not just be: oh we will figure it out.
Point is we need a true and dedicated special teams coach, why can't Dabo hire one as you stated in the article? Alabama has a sports psychologist, the Clippers have an asst equipment manager for 11 players (I know it's pro, just thought it was funny), and 20 teams have special teams coaches. If we are going to be elite, this is a problem, let's fix it. Also, Dabo has, is, and will do a fabulous job and I will never doubt him. Frank Beamer and VT have not been necessarily relevant the past few years, when Beamer chose special teams as his special project.
Thank you for writing this, and for hopefully starting the discussion. I am eager to hear what everyone thinks.
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Game Day Hero [4515]
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So you're saying hire a special teams coach,
Feb 22, 2016, 7:45 AM
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that can kick the ball out of the end zone.
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Redshirt [99]
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Game Day Hero [4340]
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Colleges teams are limited to a set number of coaches
Feb 22, 2016, 8:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve ] |
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Typically, the RB coach or the TE coach is also the Special teams coordinator. If you noticed, a lot of the coaches on staff have dual roles. BV - DC and LB coach, T.Elliot - RB and co-OC, J Scott - WR and co-OC, Streeter - QB and Recruiting Coord. Caldwell coaches the OL. Those guys typically have that 1 job. Brooks and Hobby coach DTs and DE. Those guys are the best in the business. You'd be a fool to have those guys do much else with the coaching jobs that they do (although Hobby supposedly helps with Special teams currently). Reed just does DBs. He's got Safeties and CBs so that's probably enough for him. Pearman just has TEs. He should be the guying doing the heavy lifting on Special teams on this staff. He has not gotten it done.
Dabo has also said he would take a stronger role in coaching special teams, but I don't think this is a strength of his (unlike a guy like Beamer) and he has plenty on his plate being the head coach. The only other option is to get a Grad Assistant that's really strong in special teams to sort of lead that group if Pearman can't get it done.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: Colleges teams are limited to a set number of coaches
Feb 22, 2016, 8:25 AM
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It's also my understanding that there are several other coaches, i.e. Venables and Hobby, that do coach certain aspects of the special teams. Pearman is the coordinator but does not do all the coaching. Maybe some of you should lay off and stop making Pearman the scapegoat. Dabo is ultimately responsible.
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Game Day Hero [4340]
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All I'm saying is Pearman should be leading that group
Feb 22, 2016, 8:36 AM
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BV should not be responsible for that group. He has plenty to do. Hobby has the ability to help, but we've churned out beast DEs like they grow on trees. He is elite at his job so I don't care if he doesn't add a ton to our Special teams. Pearman just has TEs and they have consistently been one of the weaker aspects of our team (last year they did finally improve some though). He needs to be the guy that leads that group.
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CU Guru [1197]
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Re: Colleges teams are limited to a set number of coaches
Feb 22, 2016, 9:15 AM
[ in reply to Colleges teams are limited to a set number of coaches ] |
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Dabo is "that guy" for us. He's listed as in charge of ST.
He's been successful in everything he's ever tried. I have faith that he will jump into ST problem with both feet! Dabo is the man and he knows it has to improve
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [107525]
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TigerNet Elite [74529]
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Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 22, 2016, 7:41 AM
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I've thought we dont get enough out of our punt and kickoff returns given the level of skill guys we have either
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110%er [6662]
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Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 22, 2016, 7:55 AM
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Old news. Clemson is elite right now. Our special teams need attention. The difference between having a Pinion doing the kickoffs and a Huegal doing the kickoffs is glaring. Case in point, Clemson allowed 48 kickoffs for 933 yards returned Pinion's last year. Last year, 71 for over 1700 yards. We were 25th in the nation Pinion's last year, 115th last year. Kick off return coverage can improve in that area alone.
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TigerNet Elite [74529]
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Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 22, 2016, 8:27 AM
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I was talking about Clemson returning the ball
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CU Guru [1512]
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Game Day Hero [4340]
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Best option is probably to improve kickoff personnel
Feb 22, 2016, 8:28 AM
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You're kickoff coverage team is usually made up of linebackers and DBs. We have the Linebackers now to improve special teams IMO. The Davis twins should not be the main kickoff guys as they were last year. You need at least 2 really fast guys as your Kickoff Safeties. Last year it was Green and Kearse. We all know that Kearse looked like he had lost a step or two the 2nd half of the season and that really hurt us.
Next year I fully expect Muse, Chad Smith, and Tre Lamar to be welcome additions on special teams. Ryan Carter should definitely be on Special teams. I have know idea why he isn't on that unit. I personally would put Feaster on the Kickoff team as one of the Safeties. It would be his job to catch anybody that broke free.
Shalski could be the key though. If he can win that kickoff job, we'd have a legit linebacker as that 11th man on the kickoff team instead of a kicker. That could be huge.
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Dynasty Maker [3559]
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Who? Who? Who is responsible for the debacle?***
Feb 22, 2016, 8:36 AM
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CU Medallion [19850]
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Go on-side every time & go on 4th down. Eliminates the issue***
Feb 22, 2016, 9:11 AM
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All-Time Great [97714]
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stoP it...Gut eR Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Feb 22, 2016, 9:15 AM
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Or else...I mean it!
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CU Medallion [19850]
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Thinking out of the box! Like at a clearance sale!
Feb 22, 2016, 9:23 AM
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Dou you think anyone else wore these shoes? Does not smell like new leather.
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Game Day Hero [4387]
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Beating a dead horse
Feb 22, 2016, 9:21 AM
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The coaches know this was the weakness ... why do we have to bring this up ? They will fix it ... why don't we put football on the back burner for now and just talk about Basketball, BaseBall and the need for a Wemem's Beach Volleyball Team ... or perhaps politics and how Donald Trump will be a refreshing change
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [107525]
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because spring practice starts in a week and it's important?
Feb 22, 2016, 9:22 AM
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just spit-ballin' here of course.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [107525]
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IF "pinion" handles the KO duty in 2015, adjusting for TB%
Feb 22, 2016, 9:21 AM
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while all else remains the same, clemson would have given up ~58 returns @ 24.85yds/rtn for ~1441 yards.
that 1441 total yards moves clemson from 127th to 120th in the ranking. if one of the scores is replaced by a TB[generous?], lowering ttl yards accordingly brings clemson in at the ~112th spot.
more touch backs is a good thing, but there's a lot of work to be done to eliminate the busts.
and yeps, volume is not the friend of KOCD, so fire ScElliot?
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CU Medallion [18225]
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Makes too much cents...stop it. Do you mean to imply...
Feb 22, 2016, 10:01 PM
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...that the quality of coverage on a returnable kick is important? Just crazy talk.
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National Champion [7108]
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Kickoff Coverage Teams Have To Improve ----
Feb 22, 2016, 9:28 AM
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What??? You Don't Say......
Surprising that it took this long to notice.
We have had returners just getting massive amounts of chunk yardage to just returning it to the endzone 65% of the time on us.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Giving up TDs on kick offs is only part of the story ...
Feb 22, 2016, 9:49 AM
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Giving up a TD on kick off coverage is a disaster. It's a glaring stat that gets noticed by everyone immediately.
But what about giving up KO returns that don't produce a TD immediately, but set the opponent up near mid-field instead of the 25 yard line?
We've given up a ton of those over the past few seasons.
Even if the opponent doesn't get any points from a long return, they still have the advantage of keeping your offense bottled up deep in it's own territory.
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Re: Giving up TDs on kick offs is only part of the story ...
Feb 22, 2016, 10:28 AM
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I specifically remember the N.C. State game. It seemed like every time I looked up State had the ball near mid-field. Too many short fields put a ton of pressure on the defense. One of the reasons Clemson's defense tired near the end of the year. Touchdowns are great, but they definitely need to be complemented by strong D and specialty teams, especially for a team with championship aspirations.
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All-Conference [411]
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Guys - this cost us the Championship - they HAVE to fix it!
Feb 22, 2016, 10:03 AM
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and BTW - nothing against basketball or baseball, but football will ALWAYS be THE topic of conversation.
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Legend [6896]
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AGREE!***
Feb 22, 2016, 11:50 AM
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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the onside kick is on Dabo -
Feb 22, 2016, 10:58 AM
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Stop making this mistake of blaming it on anyone else!
Head Coaches approve alignment on kick-offs for virtually every team, college and pro.
The call Saban made is why he's one of if not the best - he got Dabo on that one, and it made the difference in the game. You simply tip your hat on that. Nothing more need be said, and crying about it makes us collectively look like whiners. Let it go.
That being said, 3 kick-off returns for TD's in one year is outrageous, and there were several others that came down to a saving tackle past the 40. Needs to get better for sure, and I have no doubt the it will.
Regardless, I'd rather have our coach over any other any day of the year, win or lose.
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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Who did Dabo blame it on? Also when was he crying?***
Feb 22, 2016, 11:29 PM
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Clemson Icon [25336]
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Re: the onside kick is on Dabo -
Feb 23, 2016, 6:44 PM
[ in reply to the onside kick is on Dabo - ] |
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> Stop making this mistake of blaming it on anyone
> else!
>
>
> ... he got Dabo on that one, and it made the
> difference in the game...
>
Sorry ef, but I offer these:
Two TD passes to a little used - and wide open - TE for TWO touchdowns; a 95 yd ko return for a TD; a 'potentially missed' tackle in the backfield that resulted in a 60 yd gain to set up a final score AND kill LOTS'o clock; failing to stop Coker on 3d and 5 to force a field goal; Scott not pulling in a potential TD toss; DW4 forcing(?) a throw into tight coverage/safety over the top for an int... (have I 'pulled ENOUGH band aids' off the Natty loss yet IOT make a point!?)
But there is NO WAY anyone can point to ANY of the 'single plays/events' above and to say 'the onside kick' is why the game was lost. And HAIL, I am NOT pointing fingers or busting our Tiger's chops - or Dabo's chops on this, but if ANYONE were to ever give you the above scenario and occurrences in a football game, you would think that the final score would have been 40 - 6 in favor of the team on the 'plus side' of all of the above...
Just sayin'! And believe me, I want to move on, but even with all that, they only lost by FIVE!!
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Legend [6896]
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Did not Coach Swinney say last year, he would take care of
Feb 22, 2016, 11:05 AM
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special teams! Somehow, they need new coach besides Swinney and really work hard to find better kicker! And I have no doubt that Swinney and coaches will work hard, but new blood/brains needed as "hard work" last year did not work!
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Rival Killer [2736]
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Thank you, David, for bringing this glaring issue into the spotlight.***
Feb 22, 2016, 12:41 PM
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Game Changer [2003]
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Re: Maybe it's just me
Feb 22, 2016, 12:54 PM
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But on kickoffs i would make it a priority to find someone who can kick it to the fat fan who is out of the end zone. Just sayin.
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Offensive Star [321]
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Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 22, 2016, 1:19 PM
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This doesn't even need to be an article. If this isn't fixed big time for 2016, then it won't matter how good we are on offense and defense. Special teams has been a complete failure from Dabo to the players.
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Freshman [5]
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Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 22, 2016, 1:49 PM
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Was Lakip the primary kick-off man when he wasn't suspended? Maybe someone with more knowledge of that than me could find out. If that was the case, what effect did his absence have one the kick-offs?
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Freshman [5]
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Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 22, 2016, 1:54 PM
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Should be "on" the kick-offs.
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Rival Killer [2976]
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Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 22, 2016, 3:38 PM
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I'm just glad that Special Teams are getting more attention, for whatever reason. Been an issue with for a long time.
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Walk-On [129]
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Re: New Story: Inside the Numbers: Kickoff coverage teams have to improve
Feb 23, 2016, 5:04 PM
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Strategically you don't want to Kick it out of the end Zone you want to kick it one hash close to the 3 yrd line with alot of hang time to pin them inside the 15 anything other than inside the 15 is poor special teams play. The 10 is the preferred mark. Into the end zone with no hang time is bad. We haven't had a punt return man that can catch it on the move in a long time that is were Justin Miller excelled he caught the ball in stride. I say hire Beamer as a consultant for spring and summer to coach the coaches and hire miller to coach return personnel for spring and Summer
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