|
Replies: 33
| visibility 2781
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
List here things that either exist aganst God's will, or things he battles
1
Apr 8, 2025, 2:13 PM
|
|
against but has not yet been able to defeat or overcome, or things he doesn't like but is forced by a higher power to allow - Go:
|
|
|
|
 |
Clemson Sports Icon [59264]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 32403
Joined: 2002
|
Logic.***
1
Apr 8, 2025, 2:21 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
TigerNet Icon [151777]
TigerPulse: 100%
68
Posts: 67931
Joined: 2000
|
Science.***
1
Apr 8, 2025, 2:31 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [41714]
TigerPulse: 100%
57
Posts: 14605
Joined: 2013
|
Common Sense***
1
Apr 8, 2025, 2:59 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Spirit [9994]
TigerPulse: 100%
44
|
Lust****
1
Apr 8, 2025, 3:43 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20157]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
|
Nothing exists against God's will
3
Apr 8, 2025, 4:27 PM
|
|
Everything that needs defeating has been defeated AND, there is no higher power forcing God to do anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
I tend to agree.
3
Apr 8, 2025, 6:58 PM
|
|
God has decided that he WANTS sin, evil, child rape, war, disease, murder, etc., and everything else that exists, to exist, as opposed to all other options available to him, and his options are without limit.
Any concept of God must account for that, as far as I'm concerned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20157]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
|
God wants sin? Perhaps, He only permits sin.
1
Apr 8, 2025, 8:06 PM
|
|
... because His creation wants it so badly, even though there are [those warnings] about punishment for sin.
Who knows, though, right? Maybe, if you have a chance to stand before Him you can use the old "You didn't make it very clear, what You wanted. So, I only did the best I could with what I had to do it with" stance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
If God has unlimited choices, then to permit is to want. There would be no
2
Apr 8, 2025, 10:43 PM
|
|
reason to permit anything he does not want.
Or, maybe that's the wrong concept of God altogether. Maybe God doesn't want, think, decide, reflect, approve, disaprove ..... maybe that's US projecting ourselves onto God. A god who can have absolutely anything he wants, would have everything he wants, unless he wanted, in this case, to have some major disapointment.
Maybe God just IS, as in "I AM", and is complete and has no wants or desires.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20157]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
|
Re: If God has unlimited choices, then to permit is to want. There would be no
1
Apr 8, 2025, 10:48 PM
|
|
Ok. You keep running with that if you like. I will stick with the Protestant Bible (Christian) for answers concerning what God has revealed about Himself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
Of course; I respect that.
2
Apr 8, 2025, 11:20 PM
|
|
I grew up in that tradition, so I'm very familiar with it, but as I became an adult there were too many questions with no good answers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
National Champion [7134]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
Posts: 10815
Joined: 2003
|
Re: I tend to agree.
Apr 22, 2025, 9:14 PM
[ in reply to I tend to agree. ] |
|
EVERYTHING that exits is in Gods will. Nothing exists outside His will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
So you think that it's God's will that sin and all forms of evil exist,
1
Apr 8, 2025, 11:11 PM
[ in reply to Nothing exists against God's will ] |
|
even though God has unlimited choices?
I was always taught that God hated sin and was always more or less engaged in an ongoing battle against evil. Turns out, that's not true at all. Instead, it's God's will that those things exist, and they serve some purpose in his plan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20157]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
|
God does hate sin...
1
Apr 9, 2025, 12:44 PM
|
|
He also hates useless and foolish debates and controversies about scripture.
Well, Scripture says to avoid them at the least, so there is that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dynasty Maker [3494]
TigerPulse: 78%
34
|
Re: God does hate sin...
1
Apr 9, 2025, 1:01 PM
|
|
Why didn’t Jesus ever mention “scripture”?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20157]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
|
Did Jesus ever read from Scripture?
1
Apr 9, 2025, 5:23 PM
|
|
Did Jesus ever say, "It is written"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dynasty Maker [3494]
TigerPulse: 78%
34
|
Re: Did Jesus ever read from Scripture?
1
Apr 9, 2025, 5:52 PM
|
|
That was before any of the New Testament was written.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
How is it useless and foolish to try to understand God's true nature?
2
Apr 9, 2025, 7:44 PM
[ in reply to God does hate sin... ] |
|
Just because I disagree with you and have questions doesn't mean it's foolish or useless. At least to me it doesn't. I thought that you were interested in the subject as well, based on your participation in the discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20157]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
|
It is never useless or foolish to seek understanding of God
2
Apr 9, 2025, 10:52 PM
|
|
And I think it is perfectly fine that you disagree with me, or anyone else. It is foolish to keep trying to force your opinion into mine and then tell me, as you have before, I'm not interested in having conversation with you because of your contorted comments that I walk away from.
Perhaps you and I just have two different thoughts on what a conversation entails. That's ok, too. Right?
It is ok, as well, for me to say, "Been there, done that" with you and simply leave it at that, right? Same as you could with me, right?
In the end, I still wish you the best.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
I appreciate that, and wish you the best as well, and I totally understand
1
Apr 10, 2025, 9:17 AM
|
|
and accept that everyone has different thoughts and opinions. It's one of the cornerstone of what I believe, so that's not a problem for me at all. I'll gladly respect your decision to walk away, but I'm not forcing or contorting anything. The way I see it, we have both willingly engaged in a conversation, and we get into this circular "merry go round" (tip of the hat to CU) where you claim things like God is all-powerful, but there are some things he HAS to do a certain way, or in this case, that God hates sin, could eliminate it with a snap, but doesn't. When I challenge that or ask why God allows things he hates when he doesn't have to, you claim I am forcing my opinion on you and "contorting", then you walk away. It's obvious to me you don't have an answer, or aren't willing to share it, so you claim I am forcing and contorting, then walk away as if you are taking the higher ground.
The truth is, you don't have an answer for why God not only allows things he hates when he could accomplish absolutely anything without those things, but also why he included those unnecessary things as part of his creation, and CHOSE a creation that included sin and evil.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
Me: Why does God want things he hates?
2
Apr 10, 2025, 9:58 AM
|
|
HC: He doesn't necessarily want them, he just permits them.
Me: For God, everything is a 100% free choice, unless there is something else limiting his choices. Given that, why would God choose things he doesn't WANT and include them in his creation?
HC: You are contorting the argument and forcing your opinions. Therefore, I'm walking away.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dynasty Maker [3494]
TigerPulse: 78%
34
|
Re: Me: Why does God want things he hates?
2
Apr 10, 2025, 10:57 AM
|
|
Like above where I pointed out Jesus said “it is written” before the New Testament was written.
Also, Jesus was talking about specific passages within specific books within the Old Testament, not the Old Testament itself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [32158]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
|
Re: Me: Why does God want things he hates?
1
Apr 10, 2025, 11:47 AM
[ in reply to Me: Why does God want things he hates? ] |
|
I see this as a classic run-in between the Oral tradition and the Written tradition. There's the way we 'think' things are, from sort of a social context of tacitly agreeing with others, and there's the black and white of what's written.
In my old church, the congregation would have flipped out over the proposition that God allowed evil, though they themselves taught me about the temptation of Adam and Eve, and of Jesus himself after his Baptism. Where does temptation lead except to sin and evil?
The conflict grows deeper when one looks as verses like Isiah 45:7. Which clearly says God creates evil. And further still, in texts like Jubilees, it gives a full accounting of WHY God allows evil...because Satan himself asked God and got approval.
Jub 10:9
"And the Lord our God spoke to us (the angels), so that we might bind all of them (the evil forces).
And the chief of the spirits, Mastema, (Satan) came and said:
“Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them listen to my voice and do all that I shall say to them. For if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men. For these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment (who knew Satan got to judge, too?), for great is the wickedness of the sons of men.”
So, God left 10% unbound, to tempt man and sow chaos and evil. Issues like his were the exact rub between the Sadducees and the Pharisees 2000 years ago; what is the common, cultural understanding vs. the precise written word?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [20157]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
|
Re: Me: Why does God want things he hates?
Apr 10, 2025, 7:29 PM
[ in reply to Me: Why does God want things he hates? ] |
|
lol. Of course, there you go again.
Clearly.... you are persistent, I will give you that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [25930]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 14800
Joined: 2001
|
Re: Nothing exists against God's will
3
Apr 9, 2025, 2:22 PM
[ in reply to Nothing exists against God's will ] |
|
Giving each of you guys one upvote. Still dizzy from past God-didn't = God-cant merrygorounds. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24019]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 16121
Joined: 2024
|
Re: List here things that either exist aganst God's will, or things he battles
2
Apr 9, 2025, 6:06 PM
|
|
He can't defeat anything. He has no control over humans, because either he doesn't exist, or we do what we want.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [32158]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
|
Re: List here things that either exist aganst God's will, or things he battles
Apr 9, 2025, 8:41 PM
|
|
I guess I'd say Free Will, assuming Predestination isn't the case.
If we do have Free Will, God can punish us after the fact, but he can't stop us before the fact - or chooses not to.
And if we don't have Free Will, well, that's a whole other discussion then. Then God is kinda playing solitaire.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [101840]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98901
Joined: 2009
|
'...it's not the will of God...'
1
Apr 10, 2025, 5:05 AM
|
|
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
2 Peter 3 vs 9
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
Okay - that's fine. So to be clear, you believe God loves us, but
1
Apr 10, 2025, 10:36 AM
|
|
intentionally created and designed an existence which included most of us spending eternity burining in hell. If he loves us, why do you think he did that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [101840]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 98901
Joined: 2009
|
Everone here knows that I've explained all this to you more than once.
Apr 12, 2025, 8:49 AM
|
|
If you promise this will be the last time you ask this of me I will submit and explain it one more time. Promise this will be the last time and I'll proceed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [64405]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49078
Joined: 2000
|
You really haven't. You give your explanation, which only raises more questions,
Apr 14, 2025, 5:28 PM
|
|
to which you respond "I've already answered" (you haven't), then walk away, acting as if I'm being obstinate.
If you will explain why God allows things he hates, like sin and evil, and agree that it's totally unnecessary (not because he has to), I promise I won't ask you again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
National Champion [7134]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
Posts: 10815
Joined: 2003
|
Re: '...it's not the will of God...'
Apr 22, 2025, 9:18 PM
[ in reply to '...it's not the will of God...' ] |
|
That is simply a confirmation that He will redeem His Elect.
|
|
|
|
|
|
National Champion [7134]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
Posts: 10815
Joined: 2003
|
Re: List here things that either exist aganst God's will, or things he battles
Apr 21, 2025, 5:38 PM
|
|
Nothing and nothing
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [32636]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
Posts: 16536
Joined: 2014
|
Re: List here things that either exist aganst God's will, or things he battles***
Apr 22, 2025, 7:31 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 33
| visibility 2781
|
|
|
50
