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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:50 AM
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I have to think that the fact that he was willing to is a sign that he doesn't trust the offensive staff's (whoever that is) choice in going to that same failed well once again in virtually every critical situation. I think it's telling that Cade would pull (pun only partly intended) such a bold move. Maybe Dabo and/or Riley or whoever is making these decisions should consider that Klubnik, however wrong he was to go rogue, is so sick of the stale decision making that he was willing to chance it.
I acknowledge this is speculative. I could be wrong. Maybe Klubnik just made a quick decision for some other reason entirely and calculated poorly. But it seems to stand to reason that this might be unlikely in such a critical game-deciding situation unless he had grown distrustful of the playcalling M.O. and the OL's ability to get the job done.
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Ring of Honor [21640]
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:53 AM
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Don’t think you’re wrong at all, people keep trying to call him selfish but if you’ve watched that kids interviews he’s the furthest thing from selfish. I think he just wants to win and has zero trust in his OL just won’t say it. If he had an OL like he did in HS we would be undefeated right now. Now with saying all of that I would bench him the first couple of series next week. However good the intentions might of been you just can’t do that until you’ve earned it which he hasn’t.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Yeah that's a good point . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:01 AM
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he doesn't come off as selfish at all. I don't take his decision is a self-absorbed attempt to show-boat, but a move of frustration that the staff and OL keep running their chances into the ground.
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All-In [10894]
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Re: Yeah that's a good point . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 3:00 PM
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He explained that he had the exact same defensive look he had against WF where he walked into the Endzone and thought he could do it again. He didn't realize Miami was using QB spy with LB or Safety. I forget which one tackled him.
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Legend [6944]
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sssssshhhhhhh
Oct 23, 2023, 9:56 AM
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it was DJU's fault
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Ring of Honor [21640]
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Re: sssssshhhhhhh
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:58 AM
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Some of it was but no where near as much as people tried to make it. They’ve started to do the same thing with Cade. Guess it’s the new thing we are gonna do to every QB/player
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Dynasty Maker [3107]
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Re: sssssshhhhhhh
Oct 23, 2023, 3:04 PM
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Let's stop with this. We are starting to sound like USuC thinking every next QB is the savior.
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Solid Orange [1322]
TigerPulse: 81%
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:57 AM
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Yep, I think Dabo is calling plays, and it seems like he's lost the team, or at least some of our key personnel. We've seen Cade, Shipley, and Wiggins all do things this season where they did something that wasn't very "Clemsonlike" and then ignored Dabo when he confronted them about it. Cade is too young to have leeway to change the play (a coach is stupid if they get mad at a senior QB changing the play at the LOS, but a sophomore is a different story), but he evidently felt Dabo's call would fail (and to be fair, they always do), and felt he had a better chance calling an audible.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Yeah, well said . . . and I don't even
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:59 AM
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exactly "blame" CK for wanting to try something different, even if I don't support him taking liberties he hasn't been given.
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Ring of Honor [21640]
TigerPulse: 100%
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All-In [10894]
TigerPulse: 100%
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From the moon***
Oct 23, 2023, 2:55 PM
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Athletic Dir [1142]
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:59 AM
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CK2 recently went on a hike during the bye week where he reportedly ran into Bigfoot, did Bigfoot plant that "call your own play" in CK2's head?
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Is "Bigfoot" code for
Oct 23, 2023, 10:00 AM
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"sketchy offensive line" or "stale playcalling" or "unreliable short run game between the tackles," ?? 'Cause if it is, then my answer is "Yes."
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MVP [539]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
Oct 23, 2023, 10:08 AM
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It's never just one play that cost you the game. Let's not forget after the Shipley fumble in the 1st half. Miami takes it 85 yards to the house on a running play. The cane RB then fumbles, which is recovered by a Miami wr, who also ran 85 yards. Total hustle.
I'm not sure cade went rogue. It looks like an option read That was called. Cade keeps it and run s to the short side of the field. I'm sure cade has run that play 1 million times in his career. It just happened fast in the heat of the moment. Shipley also got stuffed on the same play on 3rd down
Cades pretty good the lose is not all on him.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Well . . .
Oct 23, 2023, 10:14 AM
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it's got nothing to do w/ only one play costing you the game. I wouldn't one play costs you the game either, but that's only true from the 30,000 foot overview perspective. From the perspective of the import of any given play in the context of that moment, one particular play can, indeed, be decisive, given all that came before.
As for as Cade going rogue - I have no idea on my own if he did or not - I'm simply going off of what Dabo indicated in his press conference - that it was a handoff and not an option.
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MVP [502]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:17 AM
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You might be on to something. It just looks like(to the untrained eye) a few players are trying too hard to make a play. Cade and Shipley come to mind. And more than a few are not putting forth much effort. Not much passion on this team. Remember Wilkins, Ferrell and Skalski? Those guys were leaders. XT is a prime example. A fifth year senior violating team rules? That shows no respect for his coaches or his team and certainly not a leader.
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Orange Blooded [2260]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:19 AM
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I absolutely don't blame him at all. Shipley and the OL have yet to prove this season that they can get a yard when they need one. Cade is out there just trying to make a play to win the game. It's a lose-lose. Coaches don't trust Cade, and Cade doesn't trust coaches.
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110%er [3640]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:29 AM
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I do think Cade and our RBs don’t trust the Oline. For good reason. How many times was first contact on a RB atleast 1 yd into the backfield? It’s tough to see/find the seam in the Dline when you barely get started before the initial hit. Mafah in particular looked tentative on Saturday. I think that’s the main reason we didn’t see him in the 4th quarter getting carries.
Is Haynes still injured? That’s the RB we need to counter a stacked box. He’s the only one with the jets to run wide on a quick defense like Miami or hit what little of a hole the Oline can create for less than a second.
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Athletic Dir [1143]
TigerPulse: 97%
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I think lack of trust in OL more so than trust in coaches
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:24 AM
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If you can't run it in from the 1-2 yd line in 3 downs, he questioned why 4th would be any different.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Right, but aren't those two things related . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:27 AM
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"The OL can't block, but the staff keeps calling that play **anyway,** and thus, I don't trust their call." That's sort of how I was understanding the mistrust aspect of it.
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Standout [248]
TigerPulse: 100%
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MVP [528]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:26 AM
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Part of the problem is that Riley runs the same plays over and over with usually no positive results. What he needs to do is determine what the teams strenghts are and call plays accordingly like letting Cade move within a moving pocket allowing Cade to see the whole field. There are other receivers open but with the scheme Riley uses now Cade is only executing and focused on the first read only. Cade is built to have flexibility to run or pass to whoever is open. Thats his strength . Let the big Tiger loose and success will happen.
In addition when you need a yard use the QB sneak as Cade is a big strong guy or let Mafah power it in. Shipley is no power runner . He is best used to catch short passes where he is then elusive and at his best.
Message was edited by: motownusa®
Message was edited by: motownusa®
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Legend [6923]
TigerPulse: 100%
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he completely misread the situation -
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:36 AM
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the TE wasn't blocking to support that play he ran. If he was, maybe he blocks the LB and lets CK outrun the DE? Odds are Shipley would have scored, so he royally F'd it up.
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Orange Immortal [68086]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2001
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^^^^THIS^^^^
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:47 AM
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Miami defended it well and Cade completely misread the defense. The running lane for Shipley to score was wide open to the right side of the line.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Well, maybe, but
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:49 AM
[ in reply to he completely misread the situation - ] |
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I'm not defending the X's and O's decision, or even the idea of him going rogue at all. It's just that if he was willing to do that, that doesn't seem to say anything good about him trusting the plan, or the OL.
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Orange Immortal [68086]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Here's a thought...
Oct 23, 2023, 10:45 AM
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When you call a read-option play, which is a designed run where the quarterback can either keep the ball or hand it to the running back based on how the QB reads the targeted defender, CALL A DESIGNED HANDOFF AND TAKE THE GUESSWORK OUT OF THE QBs HANDS.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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I agree . . . but
Oct 23, 2023, 10:55 AM
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isn't that what Dabo was suggesting he did in the presser? He said "it was a give all the way." And later, that it was "it was a handoff - 100%." I've got no access to inside baseball here, I'm just going off what Dabo said.
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Orange Immortal [68086]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I'm simply saying...
Oct 23, 2023, 12:05 PM
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if it's a design handoff to the RB, then take away the read option part and call it as a designed handoff to the RB. Eliminate the guess work and the judgment by the QB.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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No, I hear ya . . .
Oct 23, 2023, 1:34 PM
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that makes total sense as a thing to do, but from what Dabo said, that's exactly what was called - a designed hand-off, not an option. Right? At least that's what Dabo said. But if he's right, that still doesn't prevent a QB from tucking and running if he wishes.
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Tiger Titan [47445]
TigerPulse: 77%
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It was a called run rather than RPO.
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Oct 23, 2023, 1:58 PM
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That was because in the FSU game, it was an RPO even though the coaches wanted a run. They were trying to take that choice away from Cade. LOL.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Exactly. That's what I said . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 2:48 PM
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Dabo and Cade both have explicitly said it was a called run so that he couldn't take off himself based off the choice of an option play. Some other poster on here said they weren't sure Cade even went rogue (implying it **was** an RPO and he just made a choice). But as per Dabo and CK's post-game comments, it was a run play, not an option play, ergo, if that's the case, then CK **did** go rogue.
That being said, calling a hand-off doesn't absolutely prevent a QB from tucking and running. It's just that if they do, it will be a totally rogue move, and not an RPO judgment call.
In any event, I don't endorse CK doing that, but I think Dabo ought to reflect on the (apparent) fact that his QB is so sick of the dumb playcalling in light of the OLine's unreliability that he's willing to go rogue. So, lay down the law with Cade, by all means, but reflect on why CK even did that in the first place.
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Paw Master [17095]
TigerPulse: 91%
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That's what they did...what are you not following?***
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Oct 23, 2023, 3:27 PM
[ in reply to I'm simply saying... ] |
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Orange Elite [5433]
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Thats a total load of crap
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Oct 23, 2023, 11:09 AM
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You just don’t do that. Don’t care if you believe in the play call, the o line, or whether the right running back is in the game.
You go out there and run the best dang run up the middle you’ve ever run
And have some situational awareness - it’s 4th down with everything on the line
I’m obviously not Dabo, and he’s going to do it his way, but he’s got a discipline problem that needs to be fixed quick because that’s a cultural cancer that will lose more than the 2 games it’s cost us a shot at already.
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Well, I agree that he ought not do that . . .
Oct 23, 2023, 1:38 PM
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I'm not justifying it. But the motivation for why he'd do something like that is worth learning a lesson from. If he's so bereft of confidence in their call and the OL's ability that he'd take the chance on something like that - that's not a good sign. Dabo may need to lay down the law about the chain of command and how much leeway CK has, but he also may need to reflect on the fact that Cade isn't the only observant person out there who has not trust in Clemson's ability to eek out a yard in a critical situation.
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Game Day Hero [4170]
TigerPulse: 62%
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This is at least the second time Cade has done his own thing
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Oct 23, 2023, 11:24 AM
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Coaches coach, kids play
You do the play the coach called
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Dynasty Maker [3265]
TigerPulse: 94%
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True but . . .
Oct 23, 2023, 1:36 PM
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that misses the point I'm making. I noted that I don't support Cade going rogue (and for the reason you just said). Howvever, the fact that he was motivated to go rogue raises a worthy question as to why? Is he just a troublesome showboat that doesn't follow the rules? Or is he frustrated about the play-calling in light of the OL play . . . maybe.
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Orange Blooded [2377]
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Re: True but . . .
Oct 23, 2023, 1:48 PM
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Others summed it up. It’s discipline, respect. For what ever reason players feel empowered to do what they want. This is unacceptable unless they are given that choice.
There is lack of accountability at so many levels. This type of stuff didn’t happen 3 years ago. A culture of optionality is cancerous. Dabo must regain control and create discipline.
Even if Cade didn’t reit the play or Oline. If discipline and culture existed, he would never have done it on the first place. Tho is a big problem that has to be reigned in IMO.
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Game Day Hero [4373]
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
Oct 23, 2023, 2:50 PM
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Just one more clue that points to the fact that the coaches have lost control of the team as well as the trust
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National Champion [7729]
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Re: I don't support Cade going rogue . . . but . . .
Oct 23, 2023, 4:14 PM
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Yep ^
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Replies: 38
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