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Tiger Titan [47445]
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I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 12:34 AM
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There was absolutely no excuse for keeping Kelly Bryant in the game after it was clear he was hobbling. I'll give Dabo the benefit of the doubt and assume that Kelly was not limping earlier today, although an argument could be made that Kelly shouldn't have played at all. Regardless, after a couple of series Kelly was clearly limping when running and walking. We were no longer able to run the ball, and Kelly was a sitting duck on pass plays. He took several hard hits, resulting in a worsening of his ankle injury and then a concussion.
It was painfully obvious early in the game Kelly had no business being out there. He could have permanent damage to his foot as a result of continuing to play on it. He could also have permanent neurological damage from the concussion. I know that the team wants to win, but the health of our student-athletes should always come first and it clearly didn't tonight.
In addition, playing someone who is hurt to the point that he is severely limited in what he can do sends a bad message to our backup QBs that the coaches have more confidence in a very hobbled and limited Kelly Bryant than they do a healthy backup.
I'm not nearly as upset about losing the game as I am the horrible way the QB situation was handled tonight. Best is the standard, and we fell way short of that standard from a coaching perspective tonight. We're Clemson, we're better than that.
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Letterman [289]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 12:37 AM
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I think after that 3rd down run where it was clear he couldn't run I would've told him if you run again and are limping I'm taking you out
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All-Pro [763]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 12:38 AM
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Amen!!! I agree 110%
As a father, that made me sick to my stomach. He owes that family an apology.
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Letterman [289]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 12:39 AM
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He's probably already reached out to the family. Dabo has a lot of class and hes shown it a lot in this postgame
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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All-TigerNet [12506]
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wonder if you said the same thing
Oct 14, 2017, 12:41 AM
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After DW beat the coots with 1 ACL. His career was ruined. His life will never be the same, right?
Oh, wait.
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All-Pro [763]
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Re: wonder if you said the same thing
Oct 14, 2017, 12:49 AM
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Watson wasn't limping to the line of scrimmage and just taking a beating. He had control of that game and I don't even think he was sacked. The problem isn't playing him if he's able, the problem is seeing that he is in trouble and not pulling him.
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Tiger Titan [47445]
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I don't recall Deshaun limping at any point in that game.
Oct 14, 2017, 12:54 AM
[ in reply to wonder if you said the same thing ] |
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You couldn't even tell his knee was injured, and it clearly did not affect his play. That is a far cry from Kelly Bryant tonight. He was noticeably limping when both walking and running, and it clearly affected his play as well as the team's play.
You're reaching, man.
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Heisman Winner [86421]
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Torn ACL VS. sprained ankle??***
Oct 14, 2017, 12:56 AM
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Clemson Sports Icon [54694]
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Two very different injuries.
Oct 14, 2017, 5:51 AM
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Hard to work around a sprained ankle.
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Orange Elite [5491]
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Re: Two very different injuries.
Oct 15, 2017, 3:46 PM
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And it's not hard to work on a torn up knee? Wow
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Ring of Honor [23873]
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No... its not.
Oct 15, 2017, 3:53 PM
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You lose lateral movement with a torn ACL, but it can actually be completely torn and not hurt that bad. Nor do you risk doing further damage. You only lose lateral movement.
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Ring of Honor [23873]
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Oh, and if you want to argue...
Oct 15, 2017, 3:54 PM
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that came from my FIL who is a Clemson fan and doctor. I asked why risk it... his response was this... and that there was no risk.
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Orange Blooded [2111]
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Tiger Titan [47445]
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No, I'm complaining because it was inappropriate to play KB
Oct 15, 2017, 4:02 PM
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given his injury and clear difficulties walking, running, and carrying out his QB duties. The outcome of the game has nothing to do with it. The point is that I care more about our players and their livelihood than I do winning a football game.
Also, since you want me to "come stronger," I'm a medical doctor and can tell you that playing on a torn ACL is generally not going to make it worse, provided that the knee is stabilized (as Watson's was). In contrast, playing on an ankle sprain can significantly worsen it. The fact that Bryant was in obvious pain and was moving worse as the game went on is very concerning.
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Orange Elite [5491]
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Re: I don't recall Deshaun limping at any point in that game.
Oct 15, 2017, 3:45 PM
[ in reply to I don't recall Deshaun limping at any point in that game. ] |
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What game were you two watching. Watson came out of game limping twice. Dabo will lose a lot of sleep worrying about you two idiots
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Tiger Titan [47445]
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I don't really care whether Dabo values my opinion or not.
Oct 15, 2017, 4:05 PM
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My self worth isn't tied to what Dabo thinks about me.
I'm not really sure why you posted that.
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Game Changer [1663]
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Orange Elite [5238]
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Re: wonder if you said the same thing
Oct 14, 2017, 4:45 AM
[ in reply to wonder if you said the same thing ] |
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Torn ACL and Sprained ankle are two different injuries.
Tajh Boyd played his senior year of HS with a torn ACL.
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110%er [3717]
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Re: wonder if you said the same thing
Oct 14, 2017, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to wonder if you said the same thing ] |
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He had a torn ACL. He couldn't tear it again and wore a brace to protect other the ligaments. He was much more mobile than KB and after the first couple of possesions he wasn't mobile at all.
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Paw Warrior [4786]
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Paw Warrior [4786]
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Obviously you’ve never had knee ligament issues
Oct 14, 2017, 9:51 AM
[ in reply to wonder if you said the same thing ] |
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A torn ACL cannot get damaged further, especially with a brace. A sprained ankle can get worse. DW4 wasn’t limping. KB was.
I played a whole soccer game a week after damaging almost every ligament in my knee and was fine with a brace. Can’t do the same with a sprained ankle.
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CU Medallion [19658]
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Agree Judge. The most excellent Coach Dabo took the week off
Oct 14, 2017, 12:42 AM
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He has a much publicized trip to Bama this weekend. He "played it safe" by starting an injured and immobile running QB. He demonstrated next-man-up is not relevant at QB. And he lost to a really bad but fired-up SYR team we beat by over 50 pts last year. With Dabo not all-in, the players were not all-in; they know the signs. Hope to see KB get well soon, yet still believe HJ gives Clemson the best chance to advance to the playoffs.
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Team Captain [489]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 12:47 AM
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I don't disagree as I was calling for Kelly to be pulled in the 1st QTR when it was obvious he could not run.
Coaching seems to be like the corporate world where most managers promote people with Seniority. Our coaches decided Stoudt's experience gave him the edge over DW4.
This seems to be that our coaches gave the benefit of the doubt to KB but not believing their eyes when KB really couldn't go but wanted to give it his all.
Dean
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Dynasty Maker [3331]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 12:50 AM
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I agree somewhat. None of us cried when DW beat SC with a torn ACL though. That being said KBs strength is his running. DW could sit back read and pass. This should have been seen in practice.
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Heisman Winner [86421]
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You sound like the coots after DW4 played with a torn ACL
Oct 14, 2017, 12:54 AM
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in '14.
Though, we supposedly have more capable backups now evwn if we've seen no evidence of it yet.
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Tiger Titan [47445]
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Doctors determined that it was safe for Deshaun to play
Oct 14, 2017, 12:56 AM
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on that knee. He played well, with no affect to his play. He wasn't limping nor limited in any way.
Bryant's injury was clearly an issue early in the first quarter, and worsened with every series. He limped badly when walking and running. He was very limited. He shouldn't have been playing.
Sometimes it seems that you like to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. I don't see how you are okay with what happened tonight.
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Heisman Winner [86421]
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Deahaun hardly ran at all that game. He came out once
Oct 14, 2017, 1:04 AM
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and Stoudt threw an interception. Plus, Scott came in and ran the wilcat a few times.
Still, I agree about tonight after seeing KB2 run the first time, but no WAY was he in more danger of getting hurt than DW4 in '14.
I disagreed about playing KB2 because he couldn't run and that's so much more of his game compared to DW4.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Doctors determined that it was safe for Deshaun to play
Oct 14, 2017, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to Doctors determined that it was safe for Deshaun to play ] |
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I agree. It was obvious that Bryant was hurt from the beginning. The Syracuse coaches knew that fact. Did we make it the injury worse? I hope not. Bad coaching decisions and a lackadaisical attitude by our team cost us this game.
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Orange Elite [5491]
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Orange Beast [6278]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 12:54 AM
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Well said. Can't disagree.
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Rock Defender [50]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 1:05 AM
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I felt the same way. It was almost painful to see him out there at times. What made it worse was he was a lame duck. Whereas he can evade tackles (or clean hits), he was getting pounded today. I'm sure his family is not happy with how today's situation was handled. This is unlike Dabo, not sure what happened.
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Letterman [199]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 1:21 AM
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It's almost like Dabo was trying to get back at the fans or students who haven't been showing up/staying the whole games this year. Perhaps trying to humble the team and the fans?... Makes you wonder. From the QB management to the Defensive mistakes, this was very out of the ordinary type of night.
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Letterman [168]
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Now that's the dumbest thing I've read so far
Oct 14, 2017, 6:10 AM
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Go to bed and get some rest so you can think clearly.
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All-Pro [744]
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 1:15 AM
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Judge: I agree 100% with your post. Dabo is a finer guy and a good coach but he isn definitely bull headed when it comes to certain things as in not even giving HJ a chance. If I'm advising the kid it's transfer asap. Trevor L. just might look art this and say : so I'm not going to get a chance to start next season because I'm a freshman!
Our play calling is beyond horrific and Eliott and Scott need to explain where the heck the "rest of the offense" has disappeared to. Our total job of coaching tonite was horrible and certain ly raises some major questions in my mind.
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Letterman [199]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 1:23 AM
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yes reminds me of when he started Cole Stout over DW against Georgia.
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All-Pro [744]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 15, 2017, 10:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight. ] |
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Poor decisions were made in the game. Poor execution was evident. But, the rest is poor fiction and nonsense. If you really are a Clemson fan then my concern is with fans like you!
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National Champion [7910]
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it's true, saddened by his lack of judgement
Oct 14, 2017, 1:43 AM
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Very disappointing from Dabo.
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Team Captain [499]
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It was almost like Bryant had pissed some people off
Oct 14, 2017, 4:52 AM
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And they were punishing him to teach a lesson
Not saying it was....just felt like it
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Orange Blooded [2425]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 5:16 AM
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One of the worst decisions I've ever seen made.
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Clemson Conqueror [11251]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 6:00 AM
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Kelly wanted to be in the game and he could have checked out at any point. A couple of years ago, I broke a bone in my foot playing in an intense game of pickup basketball. Everyone present heard the bone snap. After I walked it off, I moved from playing guard to a post position so that I could finish the game.
Individuals with a strong competitive drive will play though injuries. I was more determined to win after the injury and looked to punish anyone trying to guard me. My foot healed fine with no long term problems and his will too. The concussion was a freak play that couldn't have been predicted. I was actually surprised at all the b!tching on the boreds with no concern about his well being.
The plan was for him to be a pocket passer and he needed to throw the ball away to live and fight another down. I doubt that he would have played in the second half after he twerked his ankle. We have some great back up quarterbacks, but no one wants to break one in while on a run for the championship.
There's allot of overreacting on the boreds tonight... Surprise, surprise. I would trust my child with Dabo without question. Furthermore, I'm not going to get on tigernet and second guess everything that he does because he's earned that much from me. We still have a path to the playoffs and we'll be in contention for the foreseeable future. Everyone take a deep breath...
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Hall of Famer [22966]
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Oh, good grief***
Oct 14, 2017, 7:12 AM
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Orange Blooded [2111]
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just so we're clear
Oct 14, 2017, 8:06 AM
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You were fine with DW beating the Coots with Torn ACL but mad that KB wanted to play with a sprained ankle.
DW was hobbling that whole game but we looked good and he won.
Don't be stupid
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Tiger Titan [47445]
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Yes, I was fine with it because I understand the difference
Oct 15, 2017, 4:11 PM
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between a torn ACL and an ankle sprain.
A torn ACL is torn; it isn't going to get worse with activity. The risk in continuing to play with a torn ACL is damage to the other ligaments of the knee, which is essentially nullified by the use of a proper brace. This is what Deshaun wore against the Gamecocks. Sure, he was probably playing thorough pain, but he was not risking his long-term health by continuing to play on it.
A sprained ankle is a different animal. Continuing to play on it can make it much worse, and lead to long-term problems.
In addition, Deshaun was playing well and showed no signs that he was having trouble moving and carrying out his duties. Kelly was limping when walking and running, and was not nearly as effective as a result.
He shouldn't have been out there once it was clear after a series or two that he was worse.
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All-Pro [744]
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Re: Yes, I was fine with it because I understand the difference
Oct 15, 2017, 10:11 PM
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I agree Bryant should have been pulled once he was limping and not very mobile.
But, you lose credibility by saying Watson did not show signs of having trouble and being able to carry out all his duties that he could before injury.
You are being a bit harsh in your judgement.
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Legend [6768]
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Losing Respect is too Strong...Especially on Dabo
Oct 14, 2017, 8:15 AM
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Dabo made a bad decision on continuing to play Bryant. No question. I agree and that decision certainly affected his mobility and contributed to his concussion.
Playing hurt is normal in sports. If Kelly Bryant had played a lights out game limping around everyone would have been commending him for his "Heart".
To lose respect over a bad coaching decision is harsh...He has the cred to not have to play a player out of desperation to keep his job...He made a bad decision.
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Tiger Titan [47445]
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Fair enough.
Oct 15, 2017, 4:13 PM
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My use of the word respect was too strong, especially as it relates to Dabo - who I respect a lot.
In hindsight, I don't think he consciously thought, "Kelly is hurt, and continuing to play him might damage his health, but I want to win so I don't care." But that is the way it appeared to the casual onlooker.
I do hope that Dabo reflects on this and realizes his mistake. I'm sure he was caught up in the moment, as he is a competitor. But it was very hard to watch from my vantage point.
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Recruit [96]
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Re: Fair enough.
Oct 15, 2017, 11:46 PM
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> My use of the word respect was too strong, especially
> as it relates to Dabo - who I respect a lot.
>
> In hindsight, I don't think he consciously thought,
> "Kelly is hurt, and continuing to play him might
> damage his health, but I want to win so I don't
> care." But that is the way it appeared to the casual
> onlooker.
>
> I do hope that Dabo reflects on this and realizes his
> mistake. I'm sure he was caught up in the moment, as
> he is a competitor. But it was very hard to watch
> from my vantage point.
That's not how it looked to me. Kelly isn't a china doll. If Kelly had told Dabo he couldn't play, Dabo would have taken him out like he did in the Wake game.
The concussion wasn't related to the ankle being sore.
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Dynasty Maker [3559]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 8:23 AM
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Maybe the only person on this board who:
1. Actually played football (HS RB)
2. Tried to play on a severely sprained ankle
3. Have had a blown ACL
For me, the sprain ankle was as debilitating as the blown ACL.
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Orange Blooded [2877]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 8:59 AM
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Ankle is more limiting when it comes to mobility. kB couldn’t even slide or fall out of the way Deshaun was still moving around just fine.
Don’t disagree with the start, but should have been pulled after that run to the sideline
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Dynasty Maker [3284]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 14, 2017, 9:09 AM
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I'm not slamming Dabo in any way. Players want to play and tell you they're fine. My observation early in the game with KB not able to run at all, our offense was severely limited.
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Orange Blooded [2573]
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thnx, now I don't have to post it
Oct 14, 2017, 10:06 AM
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"can't put trust in men"
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Orange Immortal [60018]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 15, 2017, 3:01 PM
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How much respect did you lose for Dabo when DW4 beat the coots and broke their streak, while playing with a torn ACL!!!!
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Tiger Titan [47445]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Again, for the eighth time:
Oct 15, 2017, 4:18 PM
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A sprained ankle and a torn ACL are two very different injuries.
A complete ACL tear, which Deshaun had, isn't going to get torn more by playing on it. You can live your life, including playing football, with a torn ACL. The risk of playing with a torn ACL is having a secondary tear in another ligament, which is why a specific knee brace is worn. Deshaun had this on, meaning that it was safe for him to play the game. Playing put him at no further risk of knee issues, in the short-term or the long-term.
An ankle sprain is not self-limiting, and can get significantly worse by continuing to walk or run on it before it is healed. This is why it was not a good idea for Kelly to play on it. He got noticeably worse as the game went on, and at that point it was even more imperative that he be taken out.
Thanks for your post, but the two injuries aren't comparable at all.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 15, 2017, 3:35 PM
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Judger: I'm with you which means you'll get a lot of s....on this site but fact is most on here no little about football let alone about injuries. good post.
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Tiger Titan [47445]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Thanks.
Oct 15, 2017, 4:20 PM
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I am not surprised by the internet machismo on here. I get it, it's football, rub some dirt on it, play through the pain, etc. But I don't feel that most people are thinking about it in terms of Kelly's future - not only in football, but in life.
I would rather protect our players from further injury, even if it means losing the game.
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CU Guru [1511]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.***
Oct 15, 2017, 3:41 PM
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CU Guru [1511]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 15, 2017, 3:41 PM
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We were at the game 90 minutes before kickoff. It was obvious during warmups that KB could not cut. He could barely run along the sidelines without limping. He should have never played. Our D was never set. The HUNH Cuse O kept them off balance all night. Both of these situations are the result of POOR COACHING, SOMETHING we have not seen in many games.
Reply
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Orange Immortal [65287]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 15, 2017, 11:55 PM
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Johnson should have started. Period.
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Recruit [96]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 16, 2017, 12:19 AM
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You don't have any basis for that claim. You aren't seeing him in practice.
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TigerNet Champion [118115]
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 16, 2017, 12:23 AM
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I would not worry about that one thinks
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Orange Immortal [65287]
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Recruit [96]
TigerPulse: 16%
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Re: I lost some respect for Dabo tonight.
Oct 16, 2017, 1:03 AM
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You aren't the coach. Given Dabo played Watson from the star his freshman season, splitting time with Stoudt, he would have played Hunter 2nd if he thought Hunter was much better than Cooper.
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