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Orange Immortal [64405]
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I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
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Apr 21, 2025, 10:58 AM
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run around and play, and enjoy the outdoors. He's such a good boy and I love him. However, I only built the fence 2-feet high because I love him, and I want him to have the freedom to jump over it and run off if that's what he wants. There's a busy highway just on the other side of the fence, and I know if he jumps over it, he will be run over in no time, so I train him not to jump over the fence, knowing he will do it anyway and suffer a horrible death. But because I love him, I sent a high $$$ trainer, (The Dog Whisperer) to work with him and and try to teach him not to jump over the fence. Dog Whisperer said "Why don't you just build a higher fence - problem solved?" I said "I want him to have the freedom, the choice to jump over the fence". Dog Whisperer "I'll do the best I can, but you know he's going to jump over that fence and get run over". I said "Yes, of course". Can't say I didn't give my sweet boy every chance though. He made his choice, like I knew he would, and got smooshed, because I love him. At first I chose to be angry, then I chose sadness. If he'd only listened and accepted what I tried to teach him. Now it's time to get another sweet dog and repeat the process, and hope this one listens better. I know sooner or later one will, and he will deserve to stay with me.
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Dynasty Maker [3494]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
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Apr 21, 2025, 1:33 PM
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That’s a pretty good analogy.
The way I’ve always thought of it is if I I had a cage full of rats…on one end is a tunnel that leads to freedom, on the other leads to a drop off into a fire.
A person who did this would be called sick.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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Absolutely. It is sick.***
Apr 21, 2025, 1:46 PM
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 21, 2025, 5:33 PM
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I am a Calvinist so I don't disagree with your point.
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Dynasty Maker [3494]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 21, 2025, 8:29 PM
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CU Medallion [20157]
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Would you also say that the dog that keeps jumping the fence can also
Apr 21, 2025, 7:41 PM
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sees the fence, just like people who see God, and jumps it anyway to do their own thing despite the danger, just like people with God. I mean like, dogs love to chase cars just like people like to chase.... Anyway, do you also think the dog would dig under the fence if it was too high to jump, or find some other way out of the fence, just like people do to "escape" God?
And, is it really the dog owners fault to begin with? I mean, they didn't build the road and that seems to be the real problem, right? A road was once just a path that someone thought would work better as a road. It would make it easier to move faster too... and add cars. Ideas that people made real.
I dunno, just rollin' with it but, do you think it was God who made Adam and Eve eat the apple, or was it them getting "around" the fence because they wanted to? They had an "idea" about how things could be better but really just made it worse?
Just curious how deep you go with your "analogy" BUT, I am not going to try to make the fence higher for you after you respond... if you do.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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That's what I do for things I love. I fix it so they will die horrible deaths.
Apr 21, 2025, 8:29 PM
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Of course I could prevent it and protect them, but I choose to let them die that way. I gave them a chance to obey me and they blew it. I tried to teach them, but they made the choice, so they had to get crushed by traffic. That's why I have dogs.
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 21, 2025, 8:36 PM
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"There are many things that I don't understand."
-Billy Graham
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 21, 2025, 9:27 PM
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Not understanding something is no reason to believe it if it makes zero sense.
But hey, if you believe I can love my dogs while not only allowing them to die horrible deaths when it's totally unnecessary and could easily be prevented, but also designed it that way from the start, you are free to do so. Not a whole lot of understanding is required.
Message was edited by: Smiling Tiger®
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Dynasty Maker [3494]
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 21, 2025, 10:00 PM
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faith
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Dynasty Maker [3494]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 21, 2025, 10:17 PM
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Those dudes that fly planes into buildings have faith too.
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CU Medallion [20157]
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Everyone has faith
Apr 22, 2025, 7:46 AM
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that they are right about who God is or, that there is no God at all.
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
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Apr 21, 2025, 10:01 PM
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what is rain
-noah
lol
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110%er [3896]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
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Apr 22, 2025, 5:05 AM
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Wouldn't your analogy work better if your dog could understand logic and reason? You could then explain to your dog why jumping over the fence is harmful, and because you love and want what's best for him, he should remain in the yard.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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What would be the point? I already know he won't listen because I know exactly
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Apr 22, 2025, 9:07 AM
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everything that is going to happen, as I am all-knowing. I purposely set it up that way, knowing what the outcome would be. I wanted him to suffer that horrible death. If I had not wanted him to jump over the fence and suffer a horrible death, I would not have allowed that to happen in the first place, as there is nothing to be gained from such a horrible, permanent outcome, and no reason the same end could not be accomplished without it.
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110%er [3896]
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Re: What would be the point? I already know he won't listen because I know exactly
Apr 22, 2025, 4:55 PM
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Maybe you know there will be a greater good come from it. Maybe you know your neighbor's five year old who loves your dog and pets him though the fence will be heartbroken over his death and learn a valuable lesson about remaining in her yard and staying out of the street. Now, you'll counter with, "Couldn't I have taught the neighbor's kid a valuable lesson w/o the death of my dog?" My answer is, sure.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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Right. The horrible death and suffering of my dogs is totally unnecessary,
Apr 22, 2025, 5:15 PM
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but I don't stop it. And why would I? Allowing it was part of my design.
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Dynasty Maker [3494]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
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Apr 22, 2025, 7:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to ] |
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“ Wouldn't your analogy work better if your dog could understand logic and reason”
I think that’s part of his point. The dog can understand logic and reason on his level, but not a humans.
By the same token, supposedly god had this perfect knowledge about why the majority of his creation has to die and go to hell, yet we don’t.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101840]
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It's simple.
Apr 23, 2025, 5:33 AM
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Those who spend eternity without God chose to do so by spending this life in rejection of Him.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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Why did God set it up that way, knowing that most of us would burn
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Apr 23, 2025, 8:33 AM
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for eternity? That's not love, it's evil.
You still haven't answered that.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101840]
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His analogy would almost work if he created the dog, the yard, the material...
Apr 23, 2025, 5:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to ] |
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the fence was made of and the entire universe around it but that's still short one factor. If he sent his only son into the body of a dog with a Smiling spirit within that son and the son was run over inside the fence by a dump truck to present an example of just exactly what happens to a dog who insist on being outside the fence, maybe.
Basically, it's no where close to a reasonable analogy but devoid of similarity other than breaking the rules has a price to pay. That's a tough lesson for a dog to learn but that's why I say men behave like the 4 leg critters.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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You continue to ignore THE point, which is perfectly illustrated by the
Apr 23, 2025, 8:39 AM
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analogy: Why did God not only allow it, but design it all so that most of us would burn in hell for eternity? Like, if I loved my dogs, why wouldn't I just build the fence a little higher? Because if I'm God, anything that can be accomplished by letting them jump the fence can be accomplished without it.
You still avoid that very simple, obvious problem.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101840]
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God made a way,...
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Apr 23, 2025, 4:16 PM
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even though you're jumped the fence, to prevent you having to face the bumpers and tires of a dump truck.
Now, if you sacrificed your only son to save all the dogs your analogy would show some similarity.
I'm not ignoring your question. We've gone through that with me presenting a perfectly good reason. I'm not saying it's the only reason but when did your father explain every reason not to drink and drive?
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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Once again, you do not answer the question.
Apr 23, 2025, 10:08 PM
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We aren't going in circles, you just don't answer. Let's try again.
Why did God not only allow it, but design it all so that most of us would burn in hell for eternity? Saying that God gave us a way out is not an answer, it's a deflection.
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Paw Master [17165]
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Game Changer [2056]
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You are one sick puppy if you actually would do that to your dog
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Apr 22, 2025, 4:32 PM
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I don't even know what to say
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 22, 2025, 6:00 PM
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God won't allow His Elect to jump the fence..
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Dynasty Maker [3494]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
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Apr 22, 2025, 7:09 PM
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So he created the rest just for fun to torture for eternity?
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 22, 2025, 9:09 PM
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He created all mankind for His Glory. Everything in creation was created for His Glory.
Rom 9:22-23
Isaiah 43:7
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Dynasty Maker [3494]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
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Apr 23, 2025, 8:15 AM
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With the people he didn’t “elect” being created to show his glory by going to hell?
How in gods name can you not see a problem with that?
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 23, 2025, 10:26 AM
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He shows His Glory in His grace.
He shows His Glory in His wrath.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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Why is he angry if things are going exactly the way he knew they would,
Apr 23, 2025, 2:07 PM
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based on the way he designed everything?
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: Then he did a sorryass job, if most of us are getting sent to hell.
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Apr 23, 2025, 10:27 AM
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Of course it is what He wanted. He is all powerful. Nothing happens outside His will.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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If course - it's a given. If God is all powerful, then either he wants most
Apr 23, 2025, 11:59 AM
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of us to burn in hell for eternity, or at best, doesn't care enough to prevent it.
That's not love, unless love means wanting people to suffer unnecessarily. That's pure evil.
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: If course - it's a given. If God is all powerful, then either he wants most
Apr 23, 2025, 12:41 PM
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God is Love. God is Just. He does not conform to our definitions or our opinions of we think He should do.
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Dynasty Maker [3494]
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Re: If course - it's a given. If God is all powerful, then either he wants most
Apr 23, 2025, 1:36 PM
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You talk like you’ve met him.
What does he look like? Where is he right now? Can I talk to him?
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: If course - it's a given. If God is all powerful, then either he wants most
Apr 23, 2025, 2:50 PM
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The Father and Son are on the throne. The Spirit is here among us. I doubt you can talk to Him because by all evidences you definitely seem to not be elect. That’s not for me to judge though, you may indeed be. If you are, He will irresistibly draw you.
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: If course - it's a given. If God is all powerful, then either he wants most
Apr 23, 2025, 3:09 PM
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John 6:44
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: LOL! Then what exactly are you saying about God when you say
Apr 23, 2025, 4:07 PM
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He knows what it means.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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YOU used the words "Love" and "Just" to describe God.
Apr 23, 2025, 10:41 PM
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Are you claiming that you assign no meaning to those words? If they mean something different to God, then the Bible, which consists of a lot of words, would be totally meaningless, as we could have all of the words wrong. But we know better that that. If the bible is God's word, why would he use words that meant something different than we understood them to mean? We know good and well what is meant by "love" and "justice". We know that burning people you love for eternity in hell is not love, even if you are offered a way out by accepting that a blood sacrifice was offered on your behalf.
Unless, of course, you believe that God can love us, and set it up from the beginning for most of us to burn in hell for eternity. I think it's absurd, and personally, I'm not letting my dog jump that fence and suffer unnecessarily, and we simply disagree.
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: YOU used the words "Love" and "Just" to describe God.
Apr 23, 2025, 10:53 PM
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God is Love. If His actions don’t meet your definition of Love, you are wrong.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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What does "Love" mean to YOU when you use the word to describe
Apr 24, 2025, 12:17 AM
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God?
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: What does "Love" mean to YOU when you use the word to describe
Apr 24, 2025, 7:29 AM
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God is Love. Yvwh, the true and only God.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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I agree 100% that God is love.
Apr 24, 2025, 11:52 AM
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I think that word describes him better than any other; I think it is his very essence. Per Thomas Aquinas, love is "to will the good of another." I believe God is that love on a profound, incomprehensible level. If to God, love means people burning in hell forever, then we may be using the same word, but we're talking about two very different things. I don't think God in any way supports or allows that, however. Just my opinion, just my belief.
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National Champion [7134]
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Re: I agree 100% that God is love.
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Apr 24, 2025, 6:20 PM
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We have differing opinions. In my opinion, all men have sinned against God. In Gods great mercy and love, he saved some of us from the punishment of that sin.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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I totally respect that. I have many good friends and family
Apr 25, 2025, 9:04 AM
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members who share that belief. Very fine, intelligent people.
I do not agree with them either.
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Top TigerNet [32636]
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Re: I fenced in the back yard for my dog, so he could have the freedom to
Apr 22, 2025, 7:21 PM
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I'm sorry to hear about your dog. Unfortunately, you weren't able to change his heart.
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Orange Immortal [64405]
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I could have kept him from getting hammered by a garbage truck.
Apr 22, 2025, 10:48 PM
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But I didn't. That's how I treat things I love.
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