Replies: 77
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Editor [∞]
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Football Update: Rules changes could lead to more ejections, official cites Clowney hit
Jul 22, 2013, 12:16 PM
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Hall of Famer [24997]
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More reason for plenty of depth just in case.***
Jul 22, 2013, 12:20 PM
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All-In [38452]
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It is the only thing
Jul 22, 2013, 12:21 PM
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that Clowney does well with his head. Dont take that away from him ...then he only has crayons and naptime.
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Oculus Spirit [82021]
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Clowney's hit was completely legal, stop turning the sport
Jul 22, 2013, 12:21 PM
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into a wussy sport.
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Athletic Dir [865]
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Did you hear about the lawsuit against the NCAA for concusio***
Jul 22, 2013, 12:25 PM
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Clowney's hit was completely legal, stop turning the sport
Jul 22, 2013, 12:29 PM
[ in reply to Clowney's hit was completely legal, stop turning the sport ] |
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I don't agree with a lot of the new rules on targeting and helmet to helmet but this is one rule I can get behind. You are taught from day one to look at your target and make the tackle. Not to duck your head and run into a player. If that RB drops his head the same way Clowney did they both end up in the hospital. I don't care if you hit a player helmet to helmet as long as you do it with your facemask and not the crown of your helmet.
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Oculus Spirit [82021]
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...except Clowney didn't duck his head, he was face up...***
Jul 22, 2013, 12:32 PM
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All-In [29046]
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: That was facemask to facemask
Jul 22, 2013, 12:47 PM
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I don't know what you are watching but at no point did his facemask touch the other players facemask.
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All-In [29046]
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Sure looks like top of facemask/forehead to me
Jul 22, 2013, 12:50 PM
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Put it this way, Clowney wasn't spearing, which is the old term for leading with the crown of your helmet. His forehead/top of facemask hit the Michigan player at the bottom of his facemask and rolled into his chest as the Michigan players helmet came off.
This is not a spear, or leading with the crown.
It's a good hit.
Now it's been seriously overblown as a masterful play by Clowney as he simply was unblocked and made a very good tackle/hit, but it was a textbook legal hit.
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Legend [16963]
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Re: Sure looks like top of facemask/forehead to me
Jul 22, 2013, 12:53 PM
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I agree with everything you are saying. Point being that this will no longer be legal. Old spearing rules no longer apply. Lowering your head into contact on offense or defense will be illegal.
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All-In [29046]
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But he didn't target him with the crown of his helmet
Jul 22, 2013, 12:53 PM
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I'm not sure how folks are seeing it that way.
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Hall of Famer [24997]
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...and that's going to be the problem for the refs.***
Jul 22, 2013, 12:59 PM
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Legend [16963]
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Re: That was facemask to facemask
Jul 22, 2013, 12:50 PM
[ in reply to That was facemask to facemask ] |
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While I think this place sits right on the edge of this new rule, this is definitely not facemask to facemask. Your gif is shot from behind the Michigan side and you can clearly see Clowney drop his head immediately before contact.
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All-In [29046]
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And your image is after contact.
Jul 22, 2013, 12:53 PM
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He hit him with his head up (forehead to facemask, I may have admittedly overstated calling it facemask to facemask), the Michigan player's helmet came off, and the continuation of CLowney's head through the Michigan player caused a forehead to chest hit. It was NOT spearing which is what this rule is intended to stop.
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Legend [16963]
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Re: And your image is after contact.
Jul 22, 2013, 1:00 PM
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This rule isn't to stop spearing. Spearing is already illegal. As I understand it, it applies to both side of the ball and is probably going to be hardest on running backs who are very used to lowering their head before contact. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with new NFL rules. I still disagree about the contact. While it is not the "crown" of his helmet if you watch the slowed down gif you see Clowney drop his head (its when he pretty much disappears immediately before contact) right before the hit. I don't think it qualifies under old spearing rules. But would qualify under the new rules - which seems pretty indisputable since the official in the articles is saying exactly that.
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Legend [15549]
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Re: And your image is after contact.
Jul 22, 2013, 9:23 PM
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You are exactly right. Now I do think the officials who make these rules are wussifying the game, and I don't like it, but Clown does drop his head some at the point of impact. Most players do. Especially RB's, but this new rule will be very subjective, IMO.
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110%er [9694]
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I've never really paid close attention to "The Missed
Jul 22, 2013, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to That was facemask to facemask ] |
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Assignment" play. But that gif looks to me like Clowney lowered his head before contact.
It wasn't intentional though. DLinemen aren't used to getting free shots at the RB with no one blocking them - so it probably threw his timing off.
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Rookie [17]
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CU Medallion [55695]
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All-In [29046]
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There is a school of thought
Jul 22, 2013, 1:25 PM
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That argues removing helmets would actually make it more interesting and safer. If you take a beast of a human being, cover him in armor from head to toe and tell him to go hit that other guy, it's gonna be VIOLENT and the player will really have no reason not to hit as hard as he possibly can. Take that same player, and make his head vulnerable, then he's gonna hit hard, but make sure his dome isn't a battering ram.
Not saying I agree, but it makes sense. Plus there'd be a lot more blood as head wounds bleed a lot.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: There is a school of thought
Jul 22, 2013, 1:52 PM
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That is part of my reasoning for fundamental tackling. The reason players lower their head is because it protects themselves. Players who are looking at the hit they are about to endure are instinctively going to restrain.
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CU Medallion [55695]
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Re: There is a school of thought
Jul 22, 2013, 3:13 PM
[ in reply to There is a school of thought ] |
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Some are failing to understand that FB sells 80 to 90 thousand tickets a game b/c it is a violet sport. Take the violets out of the game, and you can reduce stadium size by less than half.
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110%er [8244]
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Rookie [17]
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Re: Clowney's hit was completely legal, stop turning the sport
Jul 22, 2013, 4:49 PM
[ in reply to Clowney's hit was completely legal, stop turning the sport ] |
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Amen! It's football for goodness sakes. They might as well hang flags from their hips and take all the gear off. I'm so sick of these sill a$$ rules. I know you have to protect the players but this aint soccer.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Oculus Spirit [83205]
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Football Update: Rules changes could lead to more ejections, official cites Clowney hit
Jul 22, 2013, 12:24 PM
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Wow someone finally says it. Don't let ESPN find out.
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Standout [316]
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The NFL has been using it as an example of a perfect tackle.***
Jul 22, 2013, 12:30 PM
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Hall of Famer [24997]
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Maybe, but not to the head. That's the difference.***
Jul 22, 2013, 12:32 PM
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Oculus Spirit [82021]
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Yea, but the officials are saying Clowney's hit was ejection
Jul 22, 2013, 12:34 PM
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Clowney's head was up and straight into the chest of the RB.
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CU Guru [1904]
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Re: Yea, but the officials are saying Clowney's hit was ejection
Jul 22, 2013, 12:38 PM
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His helmet was far from straight up. I jut watched the slow motion replay, you should too
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Oculus Spirit [82021]
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Impact is forehead to chest...
Jul 22, 2013, 12:44 PM
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All-American [565]
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Re: Impact is forehead to chest...
Jul 22, 2013, 12:58 PM
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Good stop action pic and I have to agree that his tackle looked legal but there will be a few ejected because the action is so fast and the helmet came off. This rule change should only be applied when it is obvious that the tackler leads with the top of his helmet and not when the runner lowers his head to create the helmet to helmet. This may be one of those we will always question like some of those phantom holding calls that stop drives.
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Oculus Spirit [82021]
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I agree that it should have to go to a replay to determine***
Jul 22, 2013, 1:00 PM
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Heisman Winner [112232]
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Re: I agree that it should have to go to a replay to determine***
Jul 22, 2013, 3:27 PM
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thanks for the seizure #######.
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All-In [29046]
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: They hit facemask to facemask
Jul 22, 2013, 12:48 PM
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Look at the picture above does that look facemask to facemask? Clowney was looking straight into the players stomach which is far from up.
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Oculus Spirit [82021]
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...which is a clean, legal, and safe tackle...***
Jul 22, 2013, 12:49 PM
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All-In [29046]
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Initial contact, Clowney's head was up.
Jul 22, 2013, 12:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: They hit facemask to facemask ] |
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We may just be seeing it differently, so be it.
I simply don't see him leading with the CROWN of his helmet.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Initial contact, Clowney's head was up.
Jul 22, 2013, 1:32 PM
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I guess what I am saying is, I am okay with the new rules because they are trying to reinforce proper technique. I don't think that Clowney intentionally tried to injure another player, but I do think he dropped his head before making contact. Just because you don't break a rule on purpose doesn't mean you didn't break a rule and the only way to fix the tackling technique of players is to start calling it.
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Amateur [44]
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Re: Initial contact, Clowney's head was up.
Jul 22, 2013, 2:35 PM
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Simple google search shows Clowney's hit was about as textbook as you can get. See for yourself. I don't post often so forgive me if the pic doesn't show up.
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Rooter [228]
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Re: They hit facemask to facemask
Jul 22, 2013, 6:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: They hit facemask to facemask ] |
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So what... the Acc ref says it is illegal to lead with the crown of the helmet AND hit above the shoulders. If he means what he says then this WAS a legal tackle; i.e. Clowney's impact is below the running backs shoulders.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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CU Medallion [64693]
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In all fairness....
Jul 22, 2013, 12:30 PM
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while i can understand not unloading on a completely defenless WR or RB, but if a ball-carrier can lead with the helmet, why shouldn't the defender be able to do so as well.
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CU Medallion [58642]
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Bingo!***
Jul 22, 2013, 1:09 PM
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CU Medallion [55695]
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Re: Bingo!***
Jul 22, 2013, 3:04 PM
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You maybe on to something there Smiling. Turn the stadiums into BINGO stadiums, and just do away with FB. As long as we have men with skin so soft hands, girly girl women, and gay's making and changing the rules every year. We just as well get rid of the sport of football. With the manly man element taken away from the game, it will become a girl/boy sport that won't sell out stadiums.
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CU Medallion [55695]
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Re: In all fairness....
Jul 22, 2013, 1:29 PM
[ in reply to In all fairness.... ] |
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I'm pretty sure they have already came out with a rule that the RB can't put his head down and run anymore either.
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Oculus Spirit [94284]
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Maybe he should be.
Jul 22, 2013, 1:58 PM
[ in reply to In all fairness.... ] |
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But that ain't the rule.
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Fan [70]
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Re: Football Update: Rules changes could lead to more ejections, official cites Clowney hit
Jul 22, 2013, 12:37 PM
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I think this rule will lead to a lot of frustration next year, for a lot of teams.
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Hall of Famer [24997]
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Agree.***
Jul 22, 2013, 1:02 PM
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null
Message was edited by: SOLOS®
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Oculus Spirit [94284]
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Fan [70]
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Re: Only those who suffer from hiring players who've no...
Jul 24, 2013, 1:32 PM
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Any rule that gives refs this much discretion to eject players is cause for concern for EVERY team. You can't tell me there haven't been Clemson games where you didn't trust the judgement of the refs.
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Rock Defender [54]
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This may be a 'sidenote' at the ACC presser, but this is BIG
Jul 22, 2013, 12:45 PM
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news to me. And, I'm not in favor of it.
If everyone thinks the Booker technical fouls were excessive, wait until our guys are going in for proper tackles and the RB lowers his head which results in helmet-to-helmet. I'm not saying they won't be executing form tackling, but once the helmets collide, it will give Ron Cherry and his cohorts an easy opportunity to appease all of the UNC fans booing because they don't understand what really happened.
I'll be clear in stating that I want to see the game made safe, but Clowney's hit was not illegal. I don't care for him one bit, but that was an excellent play that was no more of a spear than Dunham's helmet to Matty Ice's chest (and yes, I realize that was not helmet to helmet). But, most everyone agrees the UM RB slid down and what resulted?.... helmet-to-helmet.
In the end, we are going to lose out on this rule change. I would prefer to see the rule at least require a video review before any such penalty is levied.
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CU Guru [1218]
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Re: This may be a 'sidenote' at the ACC presser, but this is BIG
Jul 22, 2013, 12:53 PM
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I agree 1. Terrible rule change. And the Clowney tackle was abt as perfect as it can get. They're going to ruin the game with this rule and give refs even more chances to change outcomes. This sux.
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All-In [26968]
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If there's one thing the sport needs, it's more things
Jul 22, 2013, 1:04 PM
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For the refs to make judgment calls about. They are so good at it, you really want to utilize that skill.
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All-In [29046]
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And, if at all possible
Jul 22, 2013, 1:20 PM
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We should make sure those judgment calls have serious effects on the game. Like maybe throw players out.
I mean if we can't have them immediately put to death.
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Walk-On [142]
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It was a fair hit
Jul 22, 2013, 1:06 PM
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All these rules/penalties are getting out of hand. It is going to end up where defenses will get run over because the rules of tackling will make it so hard. It is inevitable, sometimes helmets are going to hit. I understand if a player maliciously blindsides another player helmet to helmet, but I saw a player last year (can't recall the game) who led with his shoulder, happened to make contact with his helmet, and get penalized for it. Also note, it is not illegal for running backs/ offensive players to drop their helmets on defensive players. Watch a few highlights of Trent Richardson, Eddie Lacy, James Wilder, etc. and they can absolutely destroy defensive players by dropping their helmet and running them over. Seems like an unfair double standard to me.
As for the Clowney hit, completely clean. That was a textbook tackle, the result was probably the main reason that he is being cited.
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Team Captain [450]
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Re:I would prefer to see the rule at least require a video
Jul 22, 2013, 1:26 PM
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review. With this major of a penality-a video review should be required. Also can a offensive player be charged as well?
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Hall of Famer [21645]
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We are witnessing the final destruction of football.
Jul 22, 2013, 1:43 PM
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It is impossible to make football completely concussion free. Changes will be made over the years that will increasingly CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF GAMES based on over precaution.
It is literally impossible for defensive players to completely stop hitting with their helmet because human reaction time does not allow for it in situations in which the offensive players drops his helmet. The offensive player can now "draw" an ejection of a defensive player more easily than a basketball player can draw a charge.
Unless football fans demand this type of reform stop, the game we know as football will be completely destroyed.
We either have football and accept the risks, or pretend we can make it a sterile environment and turn the game into something unrecognizable.
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110%er [7390]
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So when're the Buffalo Bills gonna change their helmet logo?
Jul 22, 2013, 1:56 PM
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?
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Oculus Spirit [94284]
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The sky is falling?
Jul 22, 2013, 2:02 PM
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I'm not addressing Clowney's hit cause we spend too much time talking about him already.
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Commissioner [927]
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Let's just get rid of pads and helmets...
Jul 22, 2013, 2:08 PM
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Lets put flags around their waists and win us a Natioal Championship!! This is getting out of hand!!!
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Orange Blooded [4767]
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This argument reminds me of the one about Rod Gardner
Jul 22, 2013, 2:18 PM
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And whether he pushed off or not.
(1) Fans of the respective team are obviously going to defend the play (2) Rivals of the respective team are obviously going to say it was illegal (3) It doesn't matter anymore, not one tiny little bit
Why are we bothering to create miles-long threads about someone who's not on our team?
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All-In [29046]
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Well, to be fair
Jul 22, 2013, 2:51 PM
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In this case the thread is about the application of a new rule, and less about whether a call was made or missed.
Or at least thats how the discussion started.
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Orange Blooded [4767]
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Re: Well, to be fair
Jul 22, 2013, 3:22 PM
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It started that way, but was quickly derailed...
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Walk-On [106]
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I think we've made clear the exact reason
Jul 22, 2013, 3:01 PM
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That these rule changes are going to be problematical. Everyone sees things differently...obviously. more judgement calls by the refs equals inconsistency. That can easily determine the outcome of a football game.
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Orange Blooded [3233]
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This rule won't apply in the $EC***
Jul 22, 2013, 5:15 PM
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Junkie [590]
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Re: This rule won't apply in the $EC***
Jul 22, 2013, 5:30 PM
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If this had been helmet to helmet his helmet would never have come off. It was because of his helmet being under the facemask that made it eject into the air.
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CU Guru [1482]
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Re: Football Update: Rules changes could lead to more ejections, official cites Clowney hit
Jul 22, 2013, 5:29 PM
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We already have rules with spearing, helmet to helmet, targeting, etc. Plus, I don't see how the hit in those pics/gifs is illegal even under the new proposal.
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Rookie [17]
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Re: Football Update: Rules changes could lead to more ejections, official cites Clowney hit
Jul 22, 2013, 9:27 PM
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The refs would eject Clown boy for his hit if it happen this year. But it was clearly clean. They would of felt dumb after replay. But they gotta watch the safety of athletes
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Junkie [590]
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Re: Football Update: Rules changes could lead to more ejections, official cites Clowney hit
Jul 22, 2013, 9:46 PM
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This Ref has had all off season to watch that play over and over and he is still saying he would have ejected him. He needs to be thrown out on his head along with the Ref who called that a first down in that bowl game that started all of it. There is no place in college football for incompetent refs. It ruins the game.
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CU Medallion [55695]
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Scout Team [158]
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Re: Football Update: Rules changes could lead to more ejections, official cites Clowney hit
Jul 22, 2013, 10:49 PM
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ACC gonna have to play flag football next year if that moron ref is calling textbook tackles illegal.
As Clemson is one of the more physical teams in the ACC, I would be very worried about that refs interpretation if I were a Clemson fan. Duke fans should be ecstatic.
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Walk-On [133]
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Re: Football Update: Rules changes could lead to more ejections, official cites Clowney hit
Jul 23, 2013, 3:19 AM
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hmm cant lead with crown AND hit above the shoulders...I don't see an OR in there??? does this mean a player can lead with the helmet as long as he does so below the shoulders?? Either way, Clowneys play on the Michigan QB was awesome and seemed legit to me. First off, the play happened so quickly that it wasn't like Clowney was setting the guy up, they basically just ran into each other...looked like a textbook tackle by Clowney to me, he even wrapped him up and everything.You gotta remember clowney is like a foot taller than the RB, what is he supposed to do get on his knees to make a tackle??? There was definitely some helmet to helmet action there, but considering the height disparity and the speed/angle of the play, and the fact that Clowney wrapped him up seems to indicate to me tht it was just an awesome football play/tackle, and a no-call.
I like the rule when it protects vulnerable players from headhunters who instead of trying to wrap up and make a tackle, go above the shoulders to intentionally cause a concussive type blow to the head. Seemed to me that Clowney just made a boss tackle, and wasn't going after the players head. But I do like the idea of making the sport safer, especially concerning head shots, so its prob best that they penalize the majority of questionable head shots so defenders have to learn to tackle a bit lower and safer. I wouldn't mind seeing helmet to helmet blows disappear from the game altogether, for the sake of the players' health.
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Oculus Spirit [83205]
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LOL. Was a reaction play***
Jul 23, 2013, 5:24 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83205]
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Plus don't put on our site even if rou're right. Quit all
Jul 23, 2013, 5:37 AM
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negatuvity towards Clowney. Just beat him.
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