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Replies: 32
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Paw Master [16574]
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New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
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Apr 24, 2025, 12:17 AM
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I know this is what many MAGA supporters had hoped for so here it is.
https://www.politico.eu/article/friedrich-merz-germany-election-united-states-donald-trump-nato/
From the article:
“My absolute priority will be to strengthen Europe as quickly as possible so that, step by step, we can really achieve independence from the USA,” Germany's chancellor-in-waiting said. “I never thought I would have to say something like this on a television program. But after Donald Trump's statements last week at the latest, it is clear that the Americans, at least this part of the Americans, this administration, are largely indifferent to the fate of Europe.”
Merz, a staunch Atlanticist who has spent much of his professional career as a lawyer working with and for American firms, didn't stop there. Later this year, a NATO summit will be held — but he suggested Europe may need to devise a new defense structure to replace it.
“I am very curious to see how we are heading toward the NATO summit at the end of June," he said. "Whether we will still be talking about NATO in its current form or whether we will have to establish an independent European defense capability much more quickly."I
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Paw Master [16574]
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New German *leader*.***
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Apr 24, 2025, 12:17 AM
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Top TigerNet [32130]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
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Apr 24, 2025, 7:30 AM
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His statement, "step by step, we can really achieve independence from the USA..
" says volumes about the current relationship, that's really economically unsustainable for the US.
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Ring of Honor [23882]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 7:40 AM
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Tragic. This 4 years can't end soon enough and it just started. Hopefully this midterms are promising.
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
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Apr 24, 2025, 7:54 AM
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europe being better equipped to defend themselves is tragic
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Ring of Honor [23882]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 7:55 AM
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The issue, like most issues, is going over your head.
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 7:58 AM
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trump asked them to increase defense spending in 2016?
some life lessons are learned the hard way
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Ring of Honor [23882]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
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Apr 24, 2025, 8:01 AM
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They have increased defense spending. It's been happening for a bit. You're an idiot and don't understand the issues, on any subject, now move in moron. You cluster the board with your idiocy. You're posts are almost as if you are in the wrong topic posting on the wrong thread.
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
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Apr 24, 2025, 8:03 AM
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they dont even have the capacity to produce enough 155 rounds to defend themselves
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Ring of Honor [23882]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 8:04 AM
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Are you on the right thread? I think you're lost.
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
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Apr 24, 2025, 8:05 AM
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why would a grown man call strangers names lol
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Ring of Honor [23882]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
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Apr 24, 2025, 8:08 AM
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I am sure you're used to it. It's because you are an idiot. It's not that big of a deal on here. It's just calling you out for who you are . By the way, your cult leader does it all of the time on a much more important scale. You blindly support him. Bottom line, save your idiotic posts. You truly are a moron.
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 8:10 AM
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lol
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Ring of Honor [23882]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 8:11 AM
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Exactly. You're a clown.
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 8:12 AM
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lol
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Top TigerNet [32130]
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Ring of Honor [23882]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 8:11 AM
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We cover 16% of NATO's budget.
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Top TigerNet [32130]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 8:29 AM
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I've heard that before, but if there were a NATO war it wouldn't be just that portion that goes to war. In addition to that, the US has spent slightly more on Ukraine than Europe. It's not the number that Trump quotes, but still more. So yes, the US overall spends more on Europe defense than Europe.
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Ring of Honor [23882]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 8:33 AM
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We don't spend more on NATO. As far as Ukraine, yeah we have spent more and we have a larger GDP than the other countries combined. Also, close to 70% of that money spent in Ukraine stays right here in the USA. The good news is that NATO countries have increased spending.
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Top TigerNet [32130]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
Apr 24, 2025, 8:41 AM
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Well, I guess we would only use that amount of our military if a NATO war breaks out.
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Paw Master [16574]
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Nooooo. The problem is that Trump has cost the defense industry billions in
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Apr 24, 2025, 8:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO. ] |
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current and future sales in Europe, and providing the continent with the determination to bolster not just its defense spending, but its defense industry.
So not only are former loyal allies cancelling orders for major equipment, they are investing on that equipments replacements domestically. They are even removing components from the US that go into their existing equipment. AND they are creating a competitor for LM and Boeing to have to compete against more broadly in the world.
All.
For.
Nothing.
The Art of the Deal.
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Top TigerNet [32130]
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Re: Nooooo. The problem is that Trump has cost the defense industry billions in
Apr 24, 2025, 8:38 AM
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I'm not saying Trump is appropriately handling the situation, but there is a problem with European defense. It was on clear display when France took the "lead" against Libya around 2011 and ran short on munitions after about 2 weeks. While I'm completely anti the current Trump approach, defending Europe the way the US has over the last 80 years is not economically sustainable for a country that has 130 percent debt to GDP ratio (which is probably only going to get worse) especially with major threats in other parts of the world.
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Valley Legend [12498]
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Re: Nooooo. The problem is that Trump has cost the defense industry billions in
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Apr 24, 2025, 8:41 AM
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europe doesnt even have the capacity to produce enough 155 rounds for ukraine to go on the offensive, even IF they had enough men to try
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Paw Master [16574]
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A very reasonable post. Thank you. I agree with you.
Apr 24, 2025, 8:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Nooooo. The problem is that Trump has cost the defense industry billions in ] |
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I agree that the ongoing subsidizing of Europe's defense was unsustainable, and I agree that Trump is not handling it well. I personally would say that he is handling it abysmally, and in a way that has hurt America more than anything. But overall I think we are in agreement here.
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Top TigerNet [32130]
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Re: A very reasonable post. Thank you. I agree with you.
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Apr 24, 2025, 9:12 AM
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I think 'abysmal' is a pretty good word for most of his Presidency, so far. I sincerely hope it gets better. I thought Bessent's speech the other day was a good start at righting the ship, but Trump is so erratic who knows.
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Ring of Honor [21550]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
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Apr 24, 2025, 7:52 AM
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I have no idea why we're in such a bloody f$%&ing hurry. The world's on its way to falling apart just fine on its own without His Orangeness giving it such a vigorous push.
I mean, pick your poison. Unregulated AI. Climate change heading towards that 1.5C+ cliff at a breakneck race. Looming demographic disasters that are about to start swallowing entire first-world and developing nations whole, starting with China but soon enough to include folks like Italy, South Korea...and Germany. (They're about to have problems just a whole lot bigger than Russia, who is also very much on that list.)
And to all that good fun we get to add a half-demented and completely narcissistic infantile Boomer with a pack of repugnant Luddite followers trying to obliterate the rule of law while pledging to wind back the clock to a mythical Golden Age that happened almost entirely because the rest of the world had bombed itself back to the Stone Age, leaving us the only economic superpower remaining on Earth. Actually some days it comes across like he's trying to wind the clock all the way back to Jim Crow.
We. Do. Not. Need. This. Sh!t. We have more than enough problems already without adding self-destructive stupid to the list as well.
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Paw Master [17085]
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What's falling apart? And Jim crow, really?***
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Apr 24, 2025, 5:03 PM
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Top TigerNet [30353]
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Big fan ... they have been letting the US pick up their defense tab
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Apr 24, 2025, 8:37 AM
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for too long ...
Just bluster talk right now ... they haven't started writing the checks yet.
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CU Medallion [20756]
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Re: Big fan ... they have been letting the US pick up their defense tab
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Apr 24, 2025, 1:00 PM
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What an idiot. European countries spend 2/3 of their military budget here in the US on our equipment and munitions. At least they have been up to now. Good thing we're putting those pesky American economy supporting importers in their place.
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Top TigerNet [30353]
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No European country is in the Top 25 of %GDP spent on defense
Apr 24, 2025, 4:07 PM
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They'll have to use their "woke" budgets now for missiles.
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Paw Master [17085]
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Too bad they can't achieve independence from Russia.***
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Apr 24, 2025, 9:17 AM
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Ring of Honor [23882]
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Re: Too bad they can't achieve independence from Russia.***
Apr 24, 2025, 9:21 AM
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Yeah sucks we aren't independent either. Sucks.
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National Champion [7588]
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Re: New German thinks Europe may have to form their own NATO.
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Apr 24, 2025, 10:37 AM
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That's easy to say but how will Germamy realistically field a military when they are simultaneously detonating brand new coal power plants and seem wedded to the idea of being carbon neutral? Good luck budding a bunch of planes, tanks, ships,
etc that are good for the environment when you're importing a big chunk of your power from your primary enemy, Russia, which doesn't give a #### about the environment. And that doesn't even address the fact they have no money to suddenly start paying hundreds of billions a year over the next decade, which is how much and how long it would take to turn their currently irrelevant military into something even remotely beneficial with regards to defending their own continent? This is just another Eurotrash leader whining that their gravy train may be coming to an end because the big meanie Trump told them to defend themselves and lie in the carbon third world bed they're making for themselves. No wonder the board kooks rush in to blame all of this on Turmp like the morons they are.
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