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110%er [8015]
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Next year is make or break for Brownell
Feb 18, 2015, 12:01 AM
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Austin Ajukwa, Junior Avry Holmes, Junior Jaron Blossomgame, Junior Sidy Djitte, Junior Jordan Roper, Senior Josh Smith, Senior Landry Nnoko, Senior
That's seven upperclassman who will be real contributors, not even mentioning Donte Grantham with another year under his belt as a sophomore, along with DeVoe and Rooks who will hopefully contribute a little more, and maybe Ty Hudson and Legend Robertin (who seems like a bit of a project, but hopefully will be a body we can throw out there). I've given Brownell a little bit of a pass for this season. But if we can't make some serious noise next year, there's a real problem.
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All-American [580]
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Re: Next year is make or break for Brownell
Feb 18, 2015, 12:04 AM
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There will be no noise made with that lineup. I like Brownell. Gets the most out his talent. But, just think what he could do if he could recruit real talent.
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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and that point is probably the lone drawback but it's a
Feb 18, 2015, 6:38 AM
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pretty important one. It seems to me that kids today would rather play a little faster pace. We've seen it in football, play the style that they want to play and they'll come.
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Legend [16342]
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That certainly looks to be a pretty solid foundation.
Feb 18, 2015, 12:20 AM
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Brownell takes a lot of heat for recruiting, but once he got his feet firmly on the ground here it seems he's been moving it up in decent increments and spreading it around well to positions of need. It sure looks that way on paper heading into next season.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: Next year is make or break for Brownell
Feb 18, 2015, 1:11 AM
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How can you call something a make or break year when we wont even have a home floor?
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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I don't think that would be very attractive to a new hire so
Feb 18, 2015, 6:40 AM
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look for the AD to stay put on this one for one more year and BB better produce (with no home court) or it will be his turn next year.
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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I say it is time for DR to do some real work....lol and hire
Feb 18, 2015, 6:35 AM
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2 new coaches. He has settled into the job and now is the time to step up and do his job plain and simple.
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Orange Blooded [2862]
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No It Is Not
Feb 18, 2015, 7:41 AM
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Next year is going to be difficult traveling back and forth to Greenville. Brownell needs at least two years in the new facility before any judging needs to take place.
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All-Conference [427]
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Re: No It Is Not
Feb 18, 2015, 8:41 AM
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One year in the new facility ! If he can't get it done , fire him.
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Hall of Famer [22418]
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So, don't judge him until after his 8th year, minimum?
Feb 18, 2015, 9:01 AM
[ in reply to No It Is Not ] |
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Interesting.
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CU Medallion [58642]
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Think about that for just a second.
Feb 18, 2015, 10:38 AM
[ in reply to No It Is Not ] |
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EIGHT YEARS just to get a program back to where it was when he got here? No school would EVER hire a basketball coach if that was the deal. I like Brad Brownell a lot; I think he's a very good coach, and I hope he wins the national championship next year; and I also understand we are in a bit of a unique situation with our basketball program here at Clemson; but I am not married to Brad Brownell, and there has to be a reasonable time-table for getting the job done and SEVEN YEARS just to get us back to the dance is absurd. Sometimes you have to let good people go, not because they aren't good people, and not because they aren't "good" at their job, but simply because the RESULTS are not there, and new blood and a new direction is needed.
To be clear, I'm not calling for Brownell's head, at least not yet; but let's have high standards and expectations for our basketball program, and look for results instead of defending a good guy at all cost. Two years in a new arena means he gets at least 3 more years no matter what - and I think that's setting the bar pathetically low and cutting any coach waaaay to much slack. If he doesn't have us in the dance NEXT year, he needs to feel some serious heat. If we don't make it the next year, it would be foolish to keep him.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Oh boy
Feb 18, 2015, 10:39 AM
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117 ain't gonna like this. Don't you know on Tnet we give Brad and Jack as many chances as they need because they don't have support from the administration or nice facilities?
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Oh boy
Feb 18, 2015, 10:51 AM
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Your obsession is adorable. You are completely wrong and incapable of reading if you think I am a Jack Leggett fan.
Edit to add to your idiocy I did not make that 8 year comment and I think that is bull ####. Basically you are talking out of your ### once again.
Message was edited by: clemtiger117®
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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So if Brad doesn't make the tourney next year
Feb 18, 2015, 11:48 AM
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he should be gone?
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Legend [19737]
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Just for the sake of argument
Feb 18, 2015, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to Think about that for just a second. ] |
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when OP left, after that first year with Stitt and Grant, who did he leave to build on? Young was a nice player but nothing special. Smith a solid guy. Then who? Milt? Johnson? Hill? Devin? Bobo? Narcisse? That's the issue. Two years with basically no talent input to the program as OP left
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CU Medallion [58642]
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Like I said, it's a tough job, and I understand the
Feb 18, 2015, 2:28 PM
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challenges. I just think 8 years, even considering all of that, is an eternity when you are talking about getting any basketball program back to where it was, especially when we aren't talking anything close to elite.
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Legend [19737]
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Regarding the 8 year speculation
Feb 18, 2015, 5:30 PM
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I think most sensible folks agree if KJ had stayed we're a tourney team this year. Agree? He didn't stay, the best player by far. When did OP ever have to deal with that? Did anyone anticipate KJ's departure before recruiting for this year was done? So instead of going to the tourney in year 5 we're rebuilding again as we lack the main guy, unexpectadly. And still we are .500 in the best league in America. With young guys looking as though they can be main guys as early as next year. Brownell has faced more adversity than any Clemson coach I can remember, had never once returned his best player. Yet every year we compete in the league and hold our own. What happens when he finally gets us over the hump? Quite possibly the program we've all longed for
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CU Medallion [58642]
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I agree that with KJ, we're probably a tourney team, and
Feb 18, 2015, 9:25 PM
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losing him hurt a lot. It's just my opinion, but I don't think we should have to rebuild after 4 full recruiting cycles, even if we lost our best player. While it's true that Brownell has never returned his best player, I think you can take that two ways. First, it means he's had little continuity of talent and leadership, and that is tough. What that also means, assuming that OP didn't leave him with much as many argue, is that he has recruited very poorly; in other words, it doesn't speak very highly of the players he's recruited if they are worse than the bad players that OP left him with. And that gets us to the real problem with Brownell - recruiting. In fact, I think it's the only problem, but so far it has been a big one. Again, I understand the challenges at Clemson, but the head coach still bears the bulk of responsibility there, and simply can't be given a free pass year after year in that department, and therein lies my concern.
I really, really do like Brownell. I really do think he does a lot with a little. I am one that likes his style (which I think would look a little different with better shooters and scorers). And, I really, really hope he gets to enjoy great success here at Clemson. I'm just ready to see him start doing a lot with a lot and upgrade the talent another notch. I'm all for keeping him for as long as he does that and gets us above mid-pack mediocrity. If can't do that in a reasonable time frame, I realize it will be time to move in another direction.
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Legend [19737]
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We'll see
Feb 18, 2015, 10:59 PM
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Basketball recruiting is a fickle animal. In football by and large it's about relationships built over time. Hoops, it's handlers, AAU coaches, sneaker reps, it's a different ballgame. That first recruiting class had KJ and Hall basically, the others were reaches that didn't work out. HS next recruiting class the best player, JB, busts his leg and can't play. It's all moot as he's getting at least 2 more years, and we agree if we're not back in the tourney by then it's probably time to turn the page. I just believe he gets it done, then our concern will be what name program is going to come after him. Once he gets it turned, he'll be a hot commodity. He's probably the most respected game coach we've ever had
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CU Medallion [58642]
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I agree 100%. I hope Brownell can make it here. I've said
Feb 18, 2015, 11:20 PM
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it before, but Brownell strikes me as a guy that fully understands his situation at Clemson, just as much as he understands the game of basketball. I don't know if I've ever pulled harder for any Clemson coach. It's scary to think what he could do with talent like UNC has every year; I'd take him over Roy Williams any day.
Thanks as usual for a very well reasoned, civil discussion.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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He had two years to bring in his guys, then 3 years to train
Feb 18, 2015, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to Just for the sake of argument ] |
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them up the way he wanted them. We're in year 5. These are all Brad's guys. This year is all on him. Next year will be also.
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Legend [19737]
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He trained up KJ to well
Feb 18, 2015, 5:48 PM
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'cause with him we aren't having this conversation
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Walk-On [135]
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I think he is pretty safe for the next 2 years
Feb 18, 2015, 9:43 AM
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I dont remember all of the details, but I am pretty sure he has a 5 million dollar buyout in place through the end of next season. After that, I think it goes down to 3 million. Given the money we are shelling out on facilities, I dont think we want to put ourselves in a position to have to pay money for 2 basketball coaches.
Anyway, that is why I think any talk of CBB getting it done this year or next or he is fired is a waste of time. The buyout pretty much makes it a mute point. Once it gets down in the million range, and if coach has not taken us to the dance, then the talk can get fired up. But until then any talk of replacing him just hurts the program.
Go Tigers. LNT
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Orange Blooded [4103]
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I think they will do GREAT in Greenville
Feb 18, 2015, 10:53 AM
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will be able to fill the house for every game, being in Greenville, also the beer sales
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110%er [7913]
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Don't see it....the success of the football program
Feb 18, 2015, 10:53 AM
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overshadows mediocre results in the rest of the other programs...as long as football is winning...especially in beating SC people are in a good mood and giving. Brad is helped by a few things...
1. Most people don't care that much about basketball...they love football and basketball is merely something between the bowl game and spring practice. 2. Dabo has turned it around and therefore people are happy. 3. He's got a new building coming so people will say stay patient.
He's not going anywhere unless he quits.
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110%er [7183]
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Perspective dude, look at all the teams in
Feb 18, 2015, 2:40 PM
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Front of us in the standings...with the exception of Miami, which team would you rank Clemson ahead of? None of those, we are better than what I would have guessed we would be... C'mon buddy. I would say being I the heels of unc, duke, UVA, Syracuse, Notre dame, and in front of Pitt, nc state, wake etc we are pretty close to rolling with the big dogs. We just need a consistent scoring threat bc our defense is stout. We just have stinker games scoring here and there. Just think if we had ed scott or boogie McIntyre running point. We would easily be a tourney team
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Rock Defender [54]
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But, but, but, he will be playing all road games!!!!!
Feb 18, 2015, 2:41 PM
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you can't judge him on next year alone! BB needs atleast 5 more years to build his team!
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Legend [19352]
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Re: But, but, but, he will be playing all road games!!!!!
Feb 18, 2015, 6:29 PM
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you are a moron no one has said that.
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Rock Defender [54]
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CU Guru [1400]
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We aren't going to make a move
Feb 18, 2015, 5:42 PM
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until after we move back in to Littlejohn for at least a season unless the bottom totally falls out.
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Orange Blooded [3469]
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Re: Next year is make or break for Brownell
Feb 18, 2015, 5:54 PM
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CBB's buyout is $5mm the next two years and $3.5 the third. If he's fired after next year, then the AD needs to be fired as well after giving that contract extension and buyout just last year. Don't think any decision will be made until after the first year back in LJ.
Message was edited by: BerlinSPY73®
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CU Guru [1099]
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Re: Next year is make or break for Brownell
Feb 18, 2015, 6:40 PM
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DRad has hitched his life to Brownell. Much like TDP did with Dabo (which was an ever greater risk).
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Rock Defender [54]
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Why not this year?***
Feb 20, 2015, 9:30 AM
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Replies: 32
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