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Harley, I would like to take issue with you saying Grobe
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Rock Defender [54]
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Harley, I would like to take issue with you saying Grobe
Dec 20, 2008, 4:19 PM
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hasn't done anything at Wake Forest. In fact, I think that notion is absurd.
Wake's senior class is the winningest class in Wake history and has collected a number of really nice wins along with competing well against a number of teams they had no business competing against considering the recruiting classes they've signed. They played in 3 straight bowls for the first time in program history and won the 2006 ACC Championship.
Grobe has done a tremendous job at Wake Forest. I don't think that's debatable.
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110%er [7117]
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I agree - Grobe has done a lot for the WF program...
Dec 20, 2008, 4:30 PM
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That said, there's still no excuse for us losing to them this year - or for losing to Maryland. They're both mediocre teams this year. We have better talent than both of them. Coaching was the difference.
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Rock Defender [54]
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ACC Championship at the smallest ACC School
Dec 20, 2008, 4:32 PM
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A basketball school in the shadow of UNC and DUke. Grobe was #2 on my list of potential Clemson Head Coaches (behind Dabo).
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Orange Blooded [2565]
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Right on!
Dec 20, 2008, 4:45 PM
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Amen---Grobe does more with less, every FB season.
If TB had done what Grobe has done, CU would have been in 3 BCS games in his tenure.
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All-TigerNet [10161]
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dito.***
Dec 20, 2008, 4:55 PM
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CU Medallion [55563]
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Re:GROBE has done a better job with less talent than TB did***
Dec 20, 2008, 5:19 PM
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Legend [16186]
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Did I say Grobe had done nothing?
Dec 20, 2008, 7:27 PM
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I must have lost my mind. Grobe has been successful at
Wake. He's a good coach.
What I have noted before is that in 15 years as a head coach, Grobe has a lot of losing seasons. I've said that he was expected to be better this year than he was. The other thing I pointed out was that in Grobe's years at Wake, Clemson has gone 6-3 against him and that was also our record versus Wake in the nine years before Grobe arrived. Finally, I pointed out that we went 6-3 versus Wake in the first 9 years I paid close attention starting in 1968. What that tells me is that with respect to Clemson, Wake has not been vastly improved under Grobe.
I like Grobe. I think he's an excellent coach. I like Wake, too. The Deacons play all the major sports well and I admire that in a small private, excellent academic university.
What I don't think is that the sun rises and sets on Jim Grobe. He won 11 three years ago, 9 last year and now 8 this year. Anyone else, anywhere else would be getting some raised eyebrows. Grobe skates. Grobe interviewed for the Auburn job. I think all that is interesting stuff.
Today Grobe and Wake got a nice win over Navy. Bravo for them.
Harley
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Rock Defender [54]
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You said he didn't do anything WF that other coaches hadn't.
Dec 20, 2008, 7:48 PM
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And you, sir, were incorrect. There is clear evidence that shows it.
Furthermore, the 28 wins you mentioned since 2006 place WF among the top 20 in wins the last 3 years. I repeat, WAKE FOREST.
If you now modify your tune and say he's an "excellent coach", then we agree. No one said anything about the sun rising and setting though.
Have a good one.
UnstoppableTiger
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110%er [6155]
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I think it's more an issue of the ACC not being good
Dec 20, 2008, 7:54 PM
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than Grobe being good. Just my opinion.
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Rock Defender [54]
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The ACC is better than it used to be (#1 this year) but Wake
Dec 20, 2008, 8:05 PM
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is still Wake.
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Legend [16186]
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Unstoppable but wrong?
Dec 20, 2008, 8:53 PM
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Help me find where I said what you claim I said about Coach Grobe. I can't find it. I don't bow at the altar of Jim Grobe, but I also have always recognized that he's been good for Wake. He's not the first Wake coach to win the ACC. He's not the first Wake coach to post bowl game victories. But he is a good coach. I remain puzzled over all his losing seasons and the kudos he keeps racking up, but that's all. I sort of like it we fired a guy who went 5-3 versus the sainted Grobe.
BTW, here's what I said recently about Coach Grobe:
"In the nine years Grobe has been at Wake, Clemson went
6-3 against Wake.
In the nine years before Grobe got to Wake, Clemson went
6-3 against Wake.
In the first nine years after I arrived at Clemson, we went 6-2-1 against Wake. Wake is Wake.
Some folks say I don't appreciate Grobe enough. I think I do. I get a tiny bit confused about why his one great 11-3 season is the only thing people seem to remember about him."
"Grobe lifetime....
Ohio
2-8-1
6-6
8-3
5-6
5-6
7-4
Wake
6-5
7-6
5-7
5-7
4-7
4-7
11-3
9-4
7-5
Lifetime = 86-75-1 = .530
In 15 years as a head coach, he's got 7 losing seasons and only two season with 9 or more wins.
If he gets an offer of $1.5M or better with a five year contract and a nice buyout, he ought to take it. Grobe has done a nice job at Wake. He seemingly peaked in 2006. With State, UNC and perhaps ECU and Clemson on the rise, he might be unlikely to get better.
The numbers suggest he ought to take the big money while it is available. He's done a good job. He is unlikely to get better."
"She's got Jim Grobe first in her post season ranking of ACC coaches?
Grobe had 16 or so starters back on his team and was picked by more than a few folks in preseason to win the division. Instead he lost five times including one to Navy and one to NCSU. So that solidified his ranking as the best ACC coach? Grobe has a lifetime record of 86-75-1 (.530) with 7 losing records in 15 years and he's the best coach in the ACC? Grobe's record the last three years has shown 11, 9 and 7 wins. Auburn apparently skipped over him to hire Gene Chizik? What's she's doing with this boneheaded pick is mouthing the sportswriter's commonly accpected spin on a guy who coaches at a small school and who had one great season. Brain dead, out of date pick in my view.
She's got Jagodzinski 5th. Coach Jag has been at BC two years and he's played in the ACC title game twice. This year he did it with essentially no QB. Jag has two wins over first ranked Jim Grobe.
I have no problems with her picking Dabo last. A guy ought to start at the bottom."
Harley
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Orange Blooded [3746]
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There you go again
Dec 20, 2008, 9:09 PM
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clouding the issue with logic, facts and common sense. Is that any way to debate on TNet? Where's the hate? ;>)
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Rock Defender [54]
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I think you repsonded to the wrong post, Harley Harley......
Dec 20, 2008, 10:19 PM
[ in reply to Unstoppable but wrong? ] |
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But in any case, the only thing you tried to say with all your numbers is that Grobe hasn't done all that much at Wake Forest. I think you're on an island with that opinion.
In all your numbers you failed to address the meaningful things like, he has the winningest class in Wake history, he's taken them to 3 straight bowls for the first time in Wake history, he has one of the top 20 winningest program in the last 3 years, and he has an ACC Title. So what does "6-3" mean anyway? And why did you say he's an excellent coach if you don't really think that's the case? Plus, how can you say Auburn skipped over Grobe; maybe he turned them down, if he even interviewed with them.
You can say I'm wrong all you want, but I think the facts and just about every football fan and pundit in the world would say you're wrong. I respect you and your opinions, Harley, but you are not always correct and this is one of those times.
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Rock Defender [54]
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A couple more tidbits:
Dec 20, 2008, 10:38 PM
[ in reply to Unstoppable but wrong? ] |
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Wake went 8-5 this year. You said they went 7-5 and are 0.530 under Grobe. In actuality he's 54-44, and that's a 0.551.
And you know what else? Wake Forest is historically the 105th rated program in the game, with a 0.408 winning percentage. Under Grobe they're in the 50's with the aforementioned 0.551.
You said Wake is Wake, but CLEARLY Grobe's Wake is not Wake. Frankly I'm a little disappointed in your poor use of "facts".
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Legend [16186]
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Unstoppable
Dec 21, 2008, 8:15 AM
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What we are arguing about now is your statement that I said Grobe had done nothing at Wake. I never said, that. I never thought that. I never meant that.
I reposted 3 previous three posts of mine about Wake were to illustrate that I had not said what you posted I said. You were wrong about what I thought and about what I posted.
On the issue of Jim Grobe: I've been as clear as I can be. He's done a good job at Wake. The purpose of my posts, protesting the near universal deification of Jim Grobe, is that this career is suspect to me. He has lost more and posted more losing records than any great coach I know. His accomplishments of late have been stellar. I am not sold on his long term ability because his long term record is bad AND because we have beaten him 5 of 8 times. ((6-3 was an error on my part. And when I posted 7-5, he was 7-5. My original posts were repeated yesterday after he got that 8th win.))
Perhaps he is a great coach. Time will tell. Right now all those losses and all those losing seasons mean something.
BTW, I know I'm not always right. I thought Mack Brown was suspect too. He proved me wrong over time.
Finally, I hope you noticed my listing of ACC team records since Grobe joined the league.
Harley
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Rock Defender [54]
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Harley,
Dec 21, 2008, 7:54 PM
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By comparing the past accomplishments of Wake Forest's accomplishments to the accomplishments of WF under Jim Grobe, you are clearly saying he's done nothing extraordinary compared to other WF coaches.
If you want to protest the "universal deification of Jim Grobe" (gimme a break), then be my guest. But that doesn't minimize what he has accomplished. I am curious though, one time you say he's a good coach then another time you say he's en excellent coach. I think those are two much different adjectives.
I did see your list of teams that joined the ACC since Grobe, but honestly I have no idea how you think it's a point for this debate though.
UnstoppableTiger
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Rock Defender [54]
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By the way, sir.....
Dec 21, 2008, 11:58 PM
[ in reply to Unstoppable ] |
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You are a man to be most respected and deservedly so.
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Oculus Spirit [75849]
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Re: Harley, I would like to take issue with you saying Grobe
Dec 20, 2008, 10:21 PM
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Grobe won the ACC, I really don't like to throw individuals under the buss but that is just a dumb statement.
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Rock Defender [54]
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ohsnap***
Dec 21, 2008, 8:00 PM
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