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Some of us are being short sighted in the beer sales issue.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Some of us are being short sighted in the beer sales issue.
Jun 30, 2016, 1:09 PM
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Anyone who thinks the 25 years we spent in the 'football toilet,' was an accident or the fickle finger of fate does not understand or is not remembering our past.
One sure qualification for HC at Clemson after Pell's and Ford's departures was moral character and moral conduct. That was the landing strip for Hatfield, West and Bowden and the exact first priority for their being hired. We dropped having a top ten football team down to second tier on our priority list in preference to having and maintaining a clean program.
Was sucking at recruiting and coaching a necessity to fill the head coaching position at Clemson? No, it certainly was not. However, making sure we got those preferred characteristics was the high priority not winning ball games. Basically, we endured those years of suffering in lieu of good quality football.
We 'paid the price,' and it wasn't cheap. We are now attracting and signing recruits who meet three qualifications, moral attributes, better football talent/higher potential skills and propensity for academic achievement. We have built exactly what almost all of us wanted and intend to maintain.
Some may accuse us of stumbling into Dabo but they can not accuse us of stumbling into the establishment and maintenance of our program's moral conduct and attitude. It was deliberate, calculated and we suffered way too long for all this to be an accident.
Do not ignore that the quality of the character of our players is directly related to their parents and guardians. Those parents respect our program and find comfort trusting us with that which God has entrusted them, their children. If they don't want their sons and daughters hanging out in a bar on Friday nights why would any of us think they'd want them playing in one on Saturday afternoons? Maybe that's not how some of us view a stadium which sells beer but I can confidently say that some of them will feel that way.
Some feel we should sell beer to keep up. I say we should not sell beer to maintain the gap we've paid so much to establish between Clemson and the 'run of the mill,' trash in college football. Yes, that's harsh toward the others but we all know it the unmitigated truth. We have something which money can't buy, a good reputation.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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lol - personal character and morality
Jun 30, 2016, 1:17 PM
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as an exclusionary quality of good coaching skill.....
please tell Baylor that.
hiring the wrong coaches had nothing at all to do with
whether they were "good people" or not.
plus, there are a good many of us who believe that T Bowden
was at the best hire we could make at that time
and did many things that set the stage for D Swinney's success.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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We always hired the best we could get at the time.
Jun 30, 2016, 1:36 PM
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Are you ignoring that they were all men of clean reputation and good moral standings with focus on academics?
I have no idea why Baylor is involved in this conversation. If there's a point to directing attention to Baylor perhaps it's that they are one of the 'trash,' programs that I would name in contrast to Clemson.
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All-In [30904]
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Lol..stop
Jun 30, 2016, 1:42 PM
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West and hatfield had high characer
Football team stunk
Parrents care about their kids
Ban. alcohol
What?
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Didn't you know?
Jun 30, 2016, 1:45 PM
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all of our players are teetotalers who have never had a sip of alcohol or a puff of weed.
I certainly didn't see dozens of them downtown or at off campus parties when I was a student.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Amem***
Jun 30, 2016, 1:23 PM
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All-In [48078]
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What will make us stay at the top is money at this stage.
Jun 30, 2016, 1:27 PM
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The rest will fall into place with what Dabo has set up.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Fool rush in where angels dare not tread.***
Jun 30, 2016, 1:37 PM
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All-In [48078]
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I think you lost touch with college football.*****
Jun 30, 2016, 1:45 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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I don't think you know what happened.
Jun 30, 2016, 1:48 PM
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We had several offers from Danny and refused to rehire him. He offered to coach for a dollar a year or something like that. What do you suppose was the problem, coaching ability?
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Bobby Robinson***
Jun 30, 2016, 1:52 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Most people blamed him.
Jun 30, 2016, 2:12 PM
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He only followed the BOT's instructions. The BOT and pulled the strings. It wasn't PC to speak evil of Danny. I know, everybody does/did it but Danny was the one who got caught. Did you think Danny was fired because he couldn't find, recruit, train and coach kids?
Did we love him, sure. He won and his personality was perfect for us. A chip right off the Ole Bear Bryant block.
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CU Medallion [51559]
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Oh, he was fired for using tobacco products.***
Jul 2, 2016, 7:20 AM
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CU Guru [1186]
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MVP [506]
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you have really stretched the logic band on this one***
Jun 30, 2016, 1:27 PM
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Nice
Jun 30, 2016, 1:33 PM
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if this is satire then it is fantastic satire.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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I admit...
Jun 30, 2016, 1:45 PM
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the comment on turning DV into a bar was standup comedy. But hey, it's America and we all needed a good laugh.
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All-In [30904]
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Longest dang wookie defense I've read on tnet***
Jun 30, 2016, 1:38 PM
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All-In [26169]
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Re: Longest dang wookie defense I've read on tnet***
Jun 30, 2016, 2:36 PM
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You are exactly right 88. Clemson has a great reputation as a wonderful atmosphere for watching college athletics. Add alcohol and that will quickly change into an atmosphere that you do not want your young children to witness. True, many people can handle their consumption but many cannot. Alcohol does bring out the worst in people often times.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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I think the younger generation is desensitized to drinking.
Jun 30, 2016, 2:42 PM
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It's not as if folks didn't always drink socially but opening a beer in public is not acceptable to everyone. I understand why they don't know or believe this. They are only products of the environment. The issue is that those in control and many who remain silent on the issue do not agree with them.
Children are always difficult to nurture to maturity.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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In countries where people are desensitized to drinking
Jun 30, 2016, 3:03 PM
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binge drinking is a lot less common. Particularly countries in Western Europe where the drinking age is 16 or younger.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Well, I change my mind.
Jun 30, 2016, 3:32 PM
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We can save our children if we just start selling beer.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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It certainly won't hurt them***
Jun 30, 2016, 4:00 PM
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All-In [48078]
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CU Guru [1806]
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Your post is a sweeping generalization that beer is immoral
Jun 30, 2016, 2:52 PM
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and it is logically inconsistent. We could still run a "moral" football program with patrons imbibing alcohol. We already do, the consumption is just not inside the stadium (officially). But it is at vast majority of the tailgates and everywhere on campus.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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It was not a sweeping generalization.
Jun 30, 2016, 3:24 PM
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Do you think I've never been to DV? I know exactly what goes on in the parking lots.
I think drinking is only dangerous to some people. It's dangerous to me mostly because I have a blood pressure issue from heart damage after eight heart attacks, two heart surgeries, eight bypasses, seven children, two big fat ex wives and two sons in college now. Others can't control it because it all too often takes control over them.
Your statement 'We could still run a "moral" football program with patrons imbibing alcohol.' is a straw man statement. As with all who pose straw man arguments you provide us with the logical and obvious response. 'We already do...'
That ignores the issue of whether or not we should sell alcohol. Because it's tolerated at other places doesn't equal it being sold for onsite consumption by and at Clemson University. Your accusation that I am illogical is inaccurate. Allowing drinking in the parking lot and running an establishment which promotes and sells alcohol are two different things.
Your failure in confusing the two is astounding but hopefully due to age deficiency. I refuse to attribute it to dishonestly.
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CU Guru [1806]
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it is simply logically inconsistent to liken beer sales
Jun 30, 2016, 3:45 PM
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in a stadium to the degradation of a football program to an era defined by recruiting violations that spurned harsh sanctions. Your post insinuated that the adoption of beer sales would send us down a path towards immorality and bring back the days of football mediocrity as a rigid response to such immorality in the program (Your comparison to the Hatfield and Bowden days).
This insinuation is a slippery-slope argument.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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You sure are loose with words like 'insinuate,' and...
Jun 30, 2016, 4:52 PM
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'logical inconsistency.'
We differ in opinions on beer sales. That's all this comes to. I just pointed out the pronounced differences between our program and others, the path we took and the price we paid to get here. I say we should change nothing which might encumber our program. I believe selling beer in DV sends the wrong message. It alters the message which we are presenting like a very few programs in this country.
There is little relationship between drinking in the parking lot and selling beer in the stadium. There is no relationship between how students act in downtown bars and selling beer in the stadium. Of these relationships is accentuated and the other feigned. Acting out in one area does not justify acting out in another, especially if it's a University sponsored function. To my knowledge Clemson University has never sold alcohol. I don't buy into the 'It's not a big deal, everybody is doing it, we need the money,' and 'look at the beer we drink in the parking lot and in town on Friday nights.'
Most of them are unrelated and we don't need the money as much as we need to protect our University's Football Team's reputation.
We have come out from among them, imo, we should strive to maintain our position in every possible way.
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CU Guru [1806]
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You seem on board with maintaining the status quo...
Jun 30, 2016, 5:21 PM
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of Clemson's tacit acceptance of alcohol in it's policies i.e. relaxed open container rules and alcohol permitted on campus, but you are opposed to Clemson's outright admission that alcohol is permitted for sale?
I'll give it to you that there is a distinction to be made there, albeit, a slight one. Many feel that this distinction is nominal and see that the benefits outweigh the costs. I would see myself on the pro end of the beer in Death Valley spectrum, but it is for a multitude of reasons.
One, it would reduce the mass exodus from the stadium that is halftime and improve the early 3rd quarter atmosphere. Two, it would be a huge, untapped source of cash for the athletic department that could negate a student ticket surcharge. Three, it would actually foster a more improved and responsible culture of casual alcohol consumption. If alcohol were not "illegal" inside the stadium, people would not overindulge before the game right up until they walk into the gate. Have you ever seen the trash cans at the entry gates? It is a graveyard of chugged beer cans.
These are just my arguments. I imagine we are just going to have to agree to disagree, but given our current A.D.'s interest in the bottom line, we will see this implementation in the coming years.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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That, sir, is a good argument.
Jul 1, 2016, 10:48 AM
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Clear, concise and packed with reason.
I have great doubt that the mass exodus will cease. I suggest that the demand will be high so the prices of a beer will also. Economics, pure economics demand that folks 'tank up,' during halftime to try and lessen their spending. Can we afford a couple beers per half of a ball game? Absolutely, never-the-less, we all operate on economics and with a cooler full back at the tailgate it's not likely we'll pass it up.
It's also likely that the fellowship in the parking lot and 'stretching the legs,' won't be passed over as a factor here too.
The distinction between the two may be more than you appreciate. Clemson represents all of her graduates and each of us represents Clemson. If you consider yourself as the owner of an establishment which sells alcohol and take a personal look at the responsibility and liability you assume with ownership perhaps you can more appreciate the difference.
I concede that the income will be huge relative to making nothing off beer sales now but again I submit that we may give up something which we may never regain in the eyes of some. I hope you understand me as well as I understand you.
No sir, I am not satisfied with maintaining the status quo. I like Dabo am not concerned with Clemson football achieving the same status as Alabama, ND, USCw, Texas, OSU and the other historical programs. I do not want to be like them. I want them to see us and declare they want to be like us. Right now we are headed toward that goal. We have a long way to go and need nothing to slow our speed or throw us off course.
I was raised with convictions and the same moral anchor as were the parents of many of our coaches player and prospective recruits and therefor understand their reasoning toward our topic of discussion. I ask you, as a fellow graduate dedicated to everything Clemson, to consider this; no offense will be committed by not selling alcohol but offense, great offense may be committed toward others if we do.
I'm a Clemson man and if I honest believed that this would not damage our reputation and not alter public perspective toward our University I would not contest the sales of beer or pot during our ball games. You would not find me selling either though I'm fine with both for personal use.
In honest, if they sold beer, I would buy at least one during the games. It would not offend me. I agree to disagree though I insist that you did a better job presenting your case than did I for I completely understand your perspective and opinion while I am convinced that you do not understand mine.
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All-In [28802]
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Come on now. We weren't that bad under Bowden
Jun 30, 2016, 2:54 PM
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Pretty good, most years
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Trainer [47]
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Re: Come on now. We weren't that bad under Bowden
Jun 30, 2016, 3:02 PM
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Posts like this make me wonder what people actually think goes on during most official visits for recruits.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Relative to what we'd been through the previous decade...
Jun 30, 2016, 3:27 PM
[ in reply to Come on now. We weren't that bad under Bowden ] |
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we were world beaters. Relative to the 1980-Danny departure, we sucked dung so hard we deserved the term 'Clemsoning.'
But yeah, I appreciated that Bowden was a bit of fresh air at the time.
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All-TigerNet [13044]
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Drink beer in parking lot? Fine Clemson man.
Jun 30, 2016, 3:02 PM
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Drink beer in stadium? Morally bankrupt heathen.
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Oculus Spirit [83167]
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What does your post have to do with beer sales? Most of
Jun 30, 2016, 3:07 PM
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the people at the games drink on game day, of age or not.
Beer sales or not, there ain't no changing that fact.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Why is it so difficult for you to appreciate the...
Jun 30, 2016, 3:30 PM
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difference between drinking beer and promoting it's sales and distribution?
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Oculus Spirit [83167]
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There is a difference but doesn't affect the moral image
Jun 30, 2016, 5:09 PM
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of the individual university, imo.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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I appreciate your position...
Jun 30, 2016, 5:51 PM
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though I disagree.
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CU Medallion [51559]
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What about the fact that you can buy a beer on campus?
Jul 2, 2016, 7:21 AM
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Clemson's reputation is destroyed.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: Some of us are being short sighted in the beer sales issue.
Jun 30, 2016, 4:09 PM
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You do realize that Clemson is known as a "party school" right?
Yes we have great academics, but we also know how to cut loose and party....
Serving Beer at the stadium is no different than allowing tailgaters to drink and come into the stadium after drinking...Those who want to get drunk will be drunk one way or another.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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So drinking beer and running a bar are the same?
Jun 30, 2016, 4:28 PM
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I mean just say it. If we're half way there why not finish the job, right?
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: So drinking beer and running a bar are the same?
Jun 30, 2016, 4:31 PM
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So you consider fast food restaurants that sell beer as bars?? Fine dining restaurants that sell beer are bars??
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Are you thinking our biggest income should come from...
Jun 30, 2016, 4:57 PM
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selling food like restaurants? That's how they work. That's the only thing that keeps me from calling them a bar.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: Are you thinking our biggest income should come from...
Jun 30, 2016, 5:00 PM
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What ##### are you even talking about??
Stadium concessions sell food so how is it any different?
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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What are you thinking?
Jun 30, 2016, 5:12 PM
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Volume of food is the difference. You made it sound as if you knew what you were talking about and I let you drag me off topic onto a tangent which has no bearing on the issue. DV attraction isn't founded on food and alcohol sales. I guess that's the reader's digest version.
Now tell the truth about your position, you just want to openly drink beer at ball games, don't you?
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: What are you thinking?
Jun 30, 2016, 5:16 PM
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Stadium concessions do more volume in a few hours than a lot of restaurants do in a week....
So let me get this right...IF they sell alcohol at games then DV is a bar even though they sell food as well.
But restaurants that sell food and beer you don't necessarily consider to be a bar??
You can't have it both ways....
I honestly don't care if they sell alcohol or not. I may or may not drink depending on what kind of mood I'm in.
You seem to have some "moral" vendetta against it and it's ridiculous.
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CU Guru [1806]
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Legend [18808]
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Me three. I think I'd much rather tailgate with you two
Jun 30, 2016, 7:01 PM
[ in reply to What are you thinking? ] |
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than this Archie Bunker type OP.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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I said I don't drink alcohol because of health reasons.
Jul 1, 2016, 10:52 AM
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I did not stop drinking beer because of moral reasons. You're just out of ammo and taking what you believe to be cheap shots which are below the belt.
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Legend [18808]
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Look I am not trying to be mean.
Jul 1, 2016, 9:19 PM
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I feel for you and you're inability to drink because of health issues. Health is the MOST important thing in your life. I honestly wish you the best. I just disagree with your opinion on this topic and about imposing religious views on others in general. I know it's hard to separate the two when you have strong convictions. This is why empathy is powerful.
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Legend [18808]
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edit: continuously using you're and your incorrectly***
Jul 1, 2016, 9:20 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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I appreciate that and I appreciate that you recognize...
Jul 2, 2016, 6:33 AM
[ in reply to Look I am not trying to be mean. ] |
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the virtue of empathy. It's a good word, not because of the way it spelled or sounds but because it's a wonderful characteristic and fine attribute to have whether natural or developed.
The conviction I have is outside my personal beliefs. I feel it is wrong to condemn another for things which I refuse to do because because I believe such to be sin. I assure you my Clemson brother, this is not the case here.
It is of consideration for those parents of our players, recruits and prospects for which I express my concern. It surely will not offend those of us who believe a few beers won't send us to helll if no alcohol is served. My concern is that we are in the heart of the Bible belt and everyone doesn't hold my convictions. The general public and our reputation as a pillar of virtue are also included in my concerns.
I learned this lesson through inviting our pastor to fish after church Sunday's meeting. He declined the invitation. I then asked if he believed fishing on Sunday was a sin. He said, 'No, but everyone doesn't know that.' That was some 40 years ago.
The bottom line here is that we know that we don't sell beer and none are up in arms about it. This isn't a matter of exercising civil rights it's a matter of protecting our reputation and continuing to be viewed as the football program which is set apart in moral virtue, academic achievement and top performance in football on and off the field.
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CU Medallion [51559]
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What the hell does selling beer have to do with Clemson's
Jul 2, 2016, 7:18 AM
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reputation? Step down from your moral high horse.
I guess playing basketball at Bon Secours Wellness Arena tarnished Clemson's reputation.
I guess playing in all those bowl games tarnished Clemson's reputation.
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CU Medallion [51559]
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Legend [18808]
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If beer sales are LEGAL then why not?
Jun 30, 2016, 4:22 PM
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Because it's against your personal moral convictions? I know your trying to hide it behind a weak argument but let's be real here. You can't / won't so it's immoral.
It's illegal to consume alcohol in most Arab countries if your a Muslim. They follow that ideology too.
Me, I like living in a place that doesn't force me to abide by other people's personal religious convictions.
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Legend [18808]
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edit: your is you're***
Jun 30, 2016, 4:22 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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I will not say drinking is wrong.
Jun 30, 2016, 5:05 PM
[ in reply to If beer sales are LEGAL then why not? ] |
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I do not think drinking or drugs will send one to eternal condemnation. This is not the board for such discussions.
Clemson getting into the promotion and retail sales of alcohol in DV on Saturdays while our entire family gathers is wrong. I stated my reasons but none of you are telling the truth about this.
Y'all just want to openly drink during games.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: I will not say drinking is wrong.
Jun 30, 2016, 5:07 PM
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"but none of you are telling the truth about this."
LOL, What??
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Tell me how selling alcohol will help Clemson Football.
Jun 30, 2016, 5:14 PM
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Before you reply with 'We need the money,' maybe you need to consider how well we are doing. We need for almost nothing now.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: Tell me how selling alcohol will help Clemson Football.
Jun 30, 2016, 5:17 PM
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LOL, does more money not help?
You tell me why they shouldn't sell it in the stadium, outside of your PERSONAL agenda...
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Legend [18808]
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I will answer, because children will see adults drinking
Jun 30, 2016, 6:47 PM
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and will morally corrupt them.
All kidding aside....if you've brainwashed your child enough to believe in talking snakes, parted seas, and anything in the Old Testament, then they should be strong enough to see an adult drinking a beer at a football game without deciding to become a crack addict the next day.
I am just kidding here folks. Please don't take anything I say too seriously!
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CU Medallion [51559]
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Tell me more about the talking snake***
Jul 2, 2016, 7:23 AM
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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I have no agenda.
Jul 1, 2016, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: Tell me how selling alcohol will help Clemson Football. ] |
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If you knew me as well as you think you'd know that. You don't find me arguing politics. I think the entire subject is fruitless and a foolish waste of time.
I plainly stated why I think the sales of alcohol in the stadium may damage our University's image in the OP. Have you actually read it or did you think this was the P&R bored and assume a position contrary to mine due to some baggage your carry from a previous conversation?
If you knew me ask well as you think you'd know that I have no passion for forcing my beliefs on another though I am quite fond of defending what I believe. It is not my 'agenda,' or 'vendetta,' to stop you from having a beer during a ball game. I would probably buy a beer for myself at ball games if it were not for my issues with high blood pressure and below normal heart function due to great damage to the lower quadrant of my heart.
Since when have we needed something we can't afford? Last season we had packed houses for D2 games. IMO, ticket prices are not economically practical. Demand is high and should drive up prices until parts of our stadium are empty. That is the true economic model for maximizing prices. The concept is that if you're selling all your widgets you aren't charging enough for each unit. An educated man such as yourself should have remember this from Econ 101 and 102.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: I have no agenda.
Jul 1, 2016, 11:52 AM
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Oh Lord....
you went on a half a$$ed rant about morality in your op....where you attempted to equate alcohol sales with lack of morality and leading to a worse repuatation...
speaking of the basics of Econ. If there is a demand for alcohol in the stadium why wouldn't you satisfy that demand??
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Re: I have no agenda.
Jul 1, 2016, 12:06 PM
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I made one comment to express my understanding that not everyone favors establishment which sell alcohol. It was outrageous and more an exaggeration to make a point. It is not my personal opinion that every place that sells liquor is a bar. Some see it that way, particularly fundamental Christians which includes the parents of many of our recruits and prospects.
It's narrow minded and non-productive to assume that everyone has your perspective. I'm just trying to give others a view from inside the the hearts of others. When you insult them or their belief you are not helping.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: I have no agenda.
Jul 1, 2016, 12:20 PM
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It wasn't just one comment....The majority of you OP was predicated on "morality" and then you attempted very poorly to tie the sell of alcohol into that.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Yet your focus is entire on that one comment.
Jul 1, 2016, 2:00 PM
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The rest of the presentation was ignored. Now it's come down to the nitty gritty between us. I present a prospective determent to Clemson and you disagree. You're position is subjective and does not consider the opinion of the fundamentally religious demographic from which we seek to continue to draw some of the highest caliper players.
If you think the 'Christian,' atmosphere around our football team is not a part of the reason we have finally been able to field a first class team with first class players who exhibit attitudes and actions of high quality then you are ignoring the past 25 years of efforts to the direction in which Clemson University is so vested.
If you are willing to risk encumbering that atmosphere with beer sales at DV then I respect your opinion. As for me, I'm not a gambler when the stakes are that high. I hope you appreciate my position as well.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: Yet your focus is entire on that one comment.
Jul 1, 2016, 2:35 PM
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Are you special or just a rambling fool??
I am not focused on just that one comment. Have you not read your OP?? The MAJORITY of your OP talks about Morality....THEN you attempt to tie that into the reason we shouldn't have alcohol sales in the stadium...Which is the entire focus of your OP right?
Speaking of narrow minded...You are making a blanket assumption that this is going to upset Christians.
I AM A CHRISTIAN.
I'm not up in arms about alcohol in the stadium. Especially considering the amount of alcohol consumed in Clemson on game days and every other day during the school season. We are known as a party school and if that was going to be a deterrent to these young men it would happen before alcohol sales were introduced in the stadium.
You are making a VERY poor argument against it. Not sure how much more clear I can make that point.
Also, it's deterrent, your, and caliber. And that's just in the first "paragraph" of your response...
Final Edit: I'm done with this conversation considering you can't even seem to admit/figure out what your own OP was about...
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CU Medallion [51559]
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Um
Jul 2, 2016, 7:24 AM
[ in reply to I have no agenda. ] |
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You totally have an agenda.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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If you call winning football games by maintaining...
Jul 2, 2016, 7:52 AM
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the respect of parents of potential recruit, prospects and current players by taking into consideration that many are fundamental Christians then yes. I have an agenda.
If you think I'm fool enough to legislate morality then you're wrong. If you think I mind drinking or being with people who can drink without abusing drinking then you're wrong.
If you can't recognize that Dabo presents Clemson in a favorable light to fundamental Christians or that everyone lacks the respect for them that you lack then again, you are naive, ignorant or stupid. I'll take naive.
If you think I don't like drunks then you're right. If you think I believe that selling beer will change the number of drunks at DV when we play football then you're wrong.
If you think my efforts are directed at preparing the world to meet God by forcing them to comply with some real or imaginary standard you are very wrong.
If you think typical adults disrespect others who won't drink for medical reason or because they can't handle drinking due to alcoholism or personal preferences you are wrong. If you think I don't drink because I'm worried about going to helll then you are very wrong. If you think that I believe that drinking is some real or imaginary sin and want to stamp out alcohol altogether to make America a Christian nation again then you're even wronger than ever.
Just how does my agenda differ from any other Clemson football fan's?
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Walk-On [117]
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Re: I will not say drinking is wrong.
Jul 2, 2016, 7:56 AM
[ in reply to I will not say drinking is wrong. ] |
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I just don't get why selling alcohol is wrong. It may be wrong to you but not wrong to me. I don't think that shielding children from the effects of alcohol is a good thing either. Kids need to know what goes on in the world. It seems like you just don't want things to change, which is a fine stance but dont say selling alcohol is wrong because it's not.
I don't care if Clemson sells alcohol or not...I sneak it in anyways if I want another beverage.
Would you feel the same way if by selling alcohol we could eliminate students having to pay for tickets?
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Re: I will not say drinking is wrong.
Jul 2, 2016, 8:11 AM
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I understand why you don't think it's wrong. It's not as if I think selling or drinking beer is a real or imaginary sin.
I'm just saying that everybody doesn't agree with us. Particularly the parents of recruits and players who are fundamental Christians. Many of them are fundamental Christians. What about Muslims? Fundamental Christians and other religious folks aren't the bad guys here. How about considering them?
I'm glad Clemson doesn't try to dictate a policy of no alcohol in the parking lot. I absolutely believe that folks are allowed to 'slip,' a drink into DV if it's hidden, deliberately.
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Legend [16167]
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tell the truth, you just don't want people openly drinking
Jun 30, 2016, 5:21 PM
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during the ballgame...see how easy that was?
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: tell the truth, you just don't want people openly drinking
Jun 30, 2016, 5:29 PM
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funny thing is a lot of people already drink inside the stadium. It's not hard to sneak in mini bottles. When I was a student we would just put them in the hood of a hoodie and walk right in no problem.
Heck, we'd open a boxed wine and take the package out and have a girl wrap it around her stomach and wrap it or tape it to her and walk right in.
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CU Guru [1806]
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the student section has enough smuggled alcohol...
Jun 30, 2016, 5:33 PM
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to throw a pretty kickin' cocktail party. Not to mention all the sneaky graduates trying to keep their buzz alive peppered throughout the stands.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: the student section has enough smuggled alcohol...
Jun 30, 2016, 5:37 PM
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exactly, and imho it's better to let people maintain a buzz vs them getting wasted beforehand and/or leaving at halftime to get their drink on.
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CU Guru [1806]
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Those are two huge selling points for selling alcohol inside
Jun 30, 2016, 5:42 PM
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the stadium. Reduce the max exodus and improve the 3rd quarter atmosphere and reduce binge-drinking before the game.
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Legend [16167]
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I'm against anything that interferes with the halftime pass
Jun 30, 2016, 6:06 PM
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out policy
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Legend [16167]
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Did they sponsor it at The Well during basketball season?***
Jun 30, 2016, 6:06 PM
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: Did they sponsor it at The Well during basketball season?***
Jun 30, 2016, 6:09 PM
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I'm sure he thinks that's different though shack.
He's on his "moral" soapbox and has thrown logic out.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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Why would anybody look forward to paying $10 for bud light
Jun 30, 2016, 5:28 PM
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anyway?
Just walk to a parking lot at halftime and ask, you can find a freebie almost anywhere.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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It's worked for decades.
Jun 30, 2016, 5:54 PM
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Other than the money I can't imagine any other positive outcome.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: It's worked for decades.
Jun 30, 2016, 5:57 PM
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So you don't trust the leaders/decision makers of our GREAT University to make the right decision for Clemson??
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All-In [42328]
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Anyone ever been to one of our bowl games at night?
Jun 30, 2016, 5:47 PM
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One where they sell beer and we've been drinking all day? It's not a good combination.
I love to throw them back before a game, but even I've overdone it at a Clemson game before. Having that three or four hours to let it wear off is good for everyone.
Hell, Clemson makes enough money gouging us on Coke and popcorn. If people are that desperate to drink in the stadium, bring a flask.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Wow.***
Jun 30, 2016, 5:50 PM
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All-In [48078]
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All-In [42328]
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Bro, so am I at home games.
Jun 30, 2016, 6:28 PM
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Even if they did sell beer and I wanted to drink that badly during the game, I'd sneak it in. The Coke to mix it with itself costs as much as a good liquor drink.
Sorry, I just don't see good things coming out of night games if we're serving booze.
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All-In [48078]
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We agree on one thing...
Jun 30, 2016, 6:33 PM
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That people are already drinking. We might as well make some money I think. They are dunk anyway or drinking.
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Legend [16044]
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Kenny Hatfield really Was never supported by the fans or given
Jun 30, 2016, 7:01 PM
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fair chance as Clemson's HC.He followed DF a Clemson legend and bore the anger of many fans over the way DF's departure was handled. Fans did not like from day one. And some boosters supposedly sabotaged Hatfield's recruiting efforts.9@ I
Tommy West did admit he was not ready to be a HC. He did not have enough experience.
IMO Tommy Bowden came and helped change the culture of the football program. He improved recruiting and won some big games. He was also smart enough to the potential in Dabo and hired him as the RC and receivers coach.
When TB resigned he recommended Dabo to become the HC. IMO TB layed a good foundation for Dabo to build a successful program. And the administration at Clemson gave Dabo the money to hire topl assistants.
If TB had been given similar resources he may have been more successful. But you cannot just pass over TB's positive contributions to Clemson's current success.
What I understand from your post Clemson Tiger1988 is that Clemson should have been willing to compromise our valuesurcd, characters and moral compass to have a winning football program.
I disagree. Dabo has used the solid foundation left by TB to build the program for the long haul. If Clemson had done things the way you wanted Clemson may have won more games but I don't believe we wouodr
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CU Guru [1241]
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Re: Kenny Hatfield really Was never supported by the fans or given
Jun 30, 2016, 7:07 PM
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Dabo never had the RC title.
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Legend [16167]
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yes he did, he was RC for several years...where were you
Jun 30, 2016, 7:25 PM
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when he signed CJ?
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All-In [48078]
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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I'm sorry I gave you that impression.
Jul 1, 2016, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Kenny Hatfield really Was never supported by the fans or given ] |
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You seem to be the only one here who viewed the OP that way.
I am saying that our dedication to having and maintaining a clean program after Danny's departure brought about a horrible period in the quality of teams we fielded. I suppose that's what threw you off a bit.
I agree with everything our University did except for firing Danny though I knew we had no other way out if we were going to change our culture. The description was for those who did not experience the 80s and 90s, not for those who did. I fully appreciate where we are right now. I do not believe that the younger generation feels the scars left from the transition nor to I believe the blind can see.
You and I have no conflict of opinion unless we decided to search one out. Though this offends many I plainly state that our football program is where it is because of the moral attitudes and conduct of Hatfield, West, Bowden and Dabo. While each of them made great contributions to Clemson University by moving us through a long difficult period of growth only one of them was able to fill our need to win at the highest level consistently. Thus, the 'they sucked at coaching,' comment. It was disrespectful to them and to fans who, as do we, know their contributions. For that I apologize.
Those fans have no idea why we maintain a position toward preventing the sales of alcohol at our stadium. They can not see the danger we expose to all we are and all we aspire to become.
My main theme was that we've come too far in the right direction to allow anything to impede our progress or alter our course.
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All-In [48078]
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After reading this and looking at the thumbs up..
Jul 1, 2016, 2:16 PM
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I see that 93% don't want beer in the stadium. I think that beer wouldn't change a thing other than giving the school more revenue and making baseball and basketball games better. That said, if nobody wants beer at the games I guess it is best we don't have it. On the other hand, if that many people don't want it than not many people would be drinking it right? Maybe we should let the free market decide? That would be cool if there would be a vote. Sounds like serving beer would beer would be struck down though. I realize I am in the minority.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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What if it's a 'pandora's box,' type thing?
Jul 1, 2016, 3:00 PM
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If I thought it would help our basketball games to be better then I'm all in. I guess perhaps it might help alieviate some pain during that season.
In all sincerity, I wonder how will drinking during football games the game make anything that happens on the field better.
Just when do we decide we will have made a mistake for promoting and selling beer in Death Valley?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: What if it's a 'pandora's box,' type thing?
Jul 1, 2016, 4:06 PM
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I don't think it will make anything on the field better or worse generally speaking. Having more cash is always great for the team though.
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Oculus Spirit [94252]
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Money is desirable.
Jul 1, 2016, 8:44 PM
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I wonder if we can put the genie back in the box and how much damage we may do between now and then.
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Orange Blooded [2945]
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to the OP here here!! Very well put and I agree!!
Jul 1, 2016, 2:40 PM
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Go Tigers
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110%er [5915]
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Wonder if
Jul 2, 2016, 8:30 AM
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the Colorado and Washington schools will sell weed at games?
Well - no smoking on campus - so I guess it will have to be edibles.
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