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The sobering truth about the West Zone and
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null [252]
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The sobering truth about the West Zone and
Mar 18, 2005, 1:42 PM
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where we are in regards to facilities and the need to restructure seating at Death Valley...
Our biggest asset for raising funds are our season tickets. The report that the athletic dept turned out shows that we are making roughly half what our competition does on the same seats.
As a result, our player facilities lack significantly to every major competitor we have. I know that for a fact because I've seen them and compared them. Our player facilities don't hold a candle to USC, FSU, NCSU, UNC, UGa, Auburn, Bama, etc... When most people think of facilities they think of Death Valley and what the fans see. They don't think about meeting rooms, player lounges, recruiting halls, locker rooms, training facilities, weight rooms, etc. We have the worst of all of our competitors.
I know, I know, the West Zone is underway and all is well, right? Wrong. The West Zone that is in the video that everyone has seen is not what will be completed by game day 2006. THe player lounge, letterman's lounge, recruiting room, weight room, training facilities, coaches offices, museum, and team meeting rooms will not be a part of phase 1. Why? Because there is no money for it. All we were able to raise money for is half of the club seating we wanted to sell, the home locker room, and a make shift recruiting room that is temporarily located in a space a portion of the size of what is in the video. That is the sobering truth.
Everyone has taken a big sigh of relief because we are building the West Zone. Our woes are over, right? wrong!!! We have a start and that is great but we are a LONG way from where we want to be and need to be to be competitive. To build Phase 2 of the West Zone and make it appear like the video we must raise money. How are we going to do it if we are only able to raise half the revenue that our competitors raise from our only asset to sell? The people in those seats now aren't putting up the $$$ to pay for phase 2 voluntarily. A handful may be, but the majority are not.
Reseating must take place to get to where we need to be in facilities. In order to recruit at the level we need to in order to be as competitive as we want to be our facilities must improve to AT LEAST the standards shown in the West Zone video.
To the average fan the logic works like this... If I can buy 4 tickets on the 40 for a $350 contribution that is what I am going to pay. Who can blame them. Allowing that to happen is not going to build the West Zone. If we allow that to take place, we can continue to have below average facilities and field average teams.
If the people holding on to those seats for minimum contributions feel good about that, then they don't need to complain when we average 6-7 wins a year. Because they are saying that their ability to buy a primo seat at minimum $$$ because they always have is more important than the success of our football program. If we can raise the money to build the facilities we need without reseating...fine. I am for leaving things as they are. The facts are, however, that we can't.
I for one would rather sit on the top row of the upper deck and pull for a 10-12 win Clemson team than sit on the 40 of the lower and watch a 6-7 win team. If you don't feel the same way about Clemson football then I don't care if you are pissed off about reseating.
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Varsity [217]
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Sobering, but***
Mar 18, 2005, 1:46 PM
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Varsity [217]
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Re: Sobering, but***
Mar 18, 2005, 1:52 PM
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the truth is a little more complicated. Anyone who wants to make a $2,000+ contribution to obtain better seats will get them. And they will get them over a $500 contributor regardless of how many years they gave. Furthermore, if he gives $2,000 every year, he can pretty much keep them - in fact, step up to $2,000 Life and you pretty much assured of keeping them.
The main reason the West End Zone is not fully floating is that NEW CONTRIBUTORS aren't stepping up. Step up.
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Virtuoso [699]
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You mean to tell me that 30 year donors giving $500 a year
Mar 18, 2005, 1:56 PM
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and less are stepping up?
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Varsity [217]
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Definitely, and if you give $1,000 right now,
Mar 18, 2005, 1:59 PM
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you jump ahead. Otherwise, give your $500 for thirty years and join them. Really, we would prefer $2,000+ so you can really get better seats - that will get the average up.
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CU Guru [1772]
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Where are you getting your info?
Mar 18, 2005, 2:03 PM
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I've increased my level of giving three times in four years. My seats have not changed yet
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Varsity [217]
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Sorta does...
Mar 18, 2005, 2:25 PM
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I've upped my giving level eight times in 37 years, bought season tickets when I lived 800 plus miles away so that I wouldn't lose priority, and finally made Life. So, it only costs me season ticket money now unless I do it again..
Point is there are giving levels over me. You can jump over me right now and get better priority. Straight from IPTAY brochures, ads, reps. Go see them. Jump me.
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Virtuoso [699]
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So you telling me that IPTAY is not getting enough money
Mar 18, 2005, 2:07 PM
[ in reply to Definitely, and if you give $1,000 right now, ] |
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from the IPTAY people fresh out of college that bearly make enough to pay rent and their student loan payments. But they are getting an adequate amount from 30 and 40 year donors who haven't increased their donation amount since 1980.
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Head Coach [787]
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Clemson tradition EXISTS b/c of those 30 yr donors...
Mar 18, 2005, 2:29 PM
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you have to respect it. I understand the urge to want to get
better seats, but alot of these "newer" fans and new grads may throw down a bunch of money and then not be around during the bad times...alot of IPTAY people have been there before anyone knew Clemson existed. That should be respected.
If families have been sitting in the same spot for 30 years and all of the people sitting around them are like family, what right does someone just out of college have to throw down $5,000-10,000 and take that tradition away from those families?? Enthusiasm about our program is great but Clemson Athletics as you know it was built by IPTAY and the early members deserve respect and at least some preferential treatment.
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Virtuoso [699]
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I never said they shouldn't get special consideration.
Mar 18, 2005, 2:47 PM
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I am greatful for their years of service and giving and most long time donors have done a great deal. I am specifically talking about long time donors that haven't been willing to increase their donation when needed. I think people that aren't willing to do this are taking advantage of IPTAY.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: You mean to tell me that 30 year donors giving $500 a year
Mar 18, 2005, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to You mean to tell me that 30 year donors giving $500 a year ] |
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thses guys were stripped of their parking several years ago it was BIG UPROAR!!! not nearly enough credit put on long term donors!!
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Legend [18069]
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I stepped up...
Mar 18, 2005, 2:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sobering, but*** ] |
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I had 3 years of Collegiate Club, 1 year at the Gold Level(while still in school), and now I am at the Orange Level. May not seem like much, but to a recent graduate it was the VERY MOST I could give. As soon as I get a job, I am upping to $1,400 level.
And I don't care where my seats are. This season will be my first as an Alumnus and I don't expect 50 yard line seats. As long as my but is in Death Valley when the Tigers take the field, I'm happy.
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Enthusiast [100]
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I'm there with you...
Mar 18, 2005, 2:09 PM
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I have been at my job for a little over a year now. I'm not making a fortune, and living in Atl isn't cheap, but I gave at the Orange level to get my 2 season tickets.
Every year now, when my salary goes up, my contribution to IPTAY will go up as well.
In 20 years, I'm sure as he!! not going to be giving at the same level I am now. I will make a point to do every thing I can for this program.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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You are appreciated, and if you need an Iptay rep advise.
Mar 18, 2005, 2:14 PM
[ in reply to I stepped up... ] |
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You remind me of my two recent grad children. Thanks for your committment.
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Varsity [217]
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Joe, you have the right attitude. A lot of younger people
Mar 18, 2005, 3:58 PM
[ in reply to I stepped up... ] |
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want to start at the top and wanted it yesterday. A lot different that it was 40 years ago.
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CU Guru [1772]
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My experience does not match up with what you are saying***
Mar 18, 2005, 2:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sobering, but*** ] |
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All-In [38514]
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See that's why we drink! Sober sucks...***
Mar 18, 2005, 1:48 PM
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All-TigerNet [12092]
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That is a dang good post. Required reading****
Mar 18, 2005, 1:48 PM
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All-In [30904]
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the real truth is that no matter what IPTAY does,
Mar 18, 2005, 1:48 PM
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some people will be Pi$$ed off. Some will quit, some will donate more, and others will not care. The only thing that is for certain is that GeeVille Tiger will be there no matter what crappy seat they put me in this year. Seat 45678 Row ZZZXSZX of the upperd deck is a lot better than a front row seat in front of my TV.
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Varsity [217]
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Don't do that. Come stand in front of me...***
Mar 18, 2005, 1:55 PM
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Scout Team [161]
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This is exactly right we have a long way to go.***
Mar 18, 2005, 1:49 PM
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Orange Blooded [2299]
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Well done.*****
Mar 18, 2005, 1:50 PM
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Virtuoso [699]
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Well said.***
Mar 18, 2005, 1:50 PM
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Walk-On [149]
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Very true, and furthermore....
Mar 18, 2005, 1:53 PM
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The re-seating should have been done for the upcoming season and not wait until the following year. Everyone wants the facilities of a Georgia or UNC. Well, now they are going to find out what those other schools had to sacrifice to get them.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: The sobering truth about the West Zone and
Mar 18, 2005, 1:58 PM
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IMHO the wins MUST COME FIRST!!!as long as we lose to lower teams like Duke and play like we did against T A & M fans are not going to respond with lots more $$$$;as long as athl dept $$$$ goes to the general fund IMO no one will want to make big contributions!!also, long time IPTAY donors do not feel that they receive proper credit for years of contributions>>I understand it is hard choice but we need to do all we can to keep as many contributiors as possible!!AFTER a couple of 9-2 season $$$$ will come if IPTAY requirements are raised and athl dept $$$ does not go to gereral fund!!
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Virtuoso [699]
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OK, but the 9-2 seasons have been few and far between
Mar 18, 2005, 2:03 PM
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Clemson hasn't had too much success stringing the 3 or 4 9-2 seasons together that you say we need to get more money. If those types of seasons don't happen, something else has to be done to raise money.
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null [18]
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Iptay needs a vast overhaul....
Mar 18, 2005, 2:01 PM
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I graduated in 2000 and am at a point now where I could contribute $750-$1000 this year. This is not a huge amount, but I know several of my friends can do the same, and it adds up.
I am someone who wants instant gratification for my purchase. I buy a tv, I get a tv. If it requires years of investing to get a seat, well I will stick to the stock market. I have several relatives that I can buy tickets under their Iptay allotment and they are good seats.
I would like to contribute to Iptay, but since I have graduated, I have had 0 thats right 0 attemtps to contact me and try to sign me up. What an awful, backwards, marketing effort when they are not contacting the new graduates to get us involved.
To top it off, why should I give $1000 to Iptay and get stuck in the corner of the upperdeck(happened to my friend last year) while the lower deck is filled with $300 members.
Until there are some changes, I have no incentive to reward Iptay for mishandling of funds and tickets.
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null [4379]
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Re: Iptay needs a vast overhaul....
Mar 18, 2005, 2:04 PM
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Lower decks sometimes give the true meaning of "I see dead people". I bet there are more dead people that have people sitting in their sits than we can imagine.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Works in Augusta as well.***
Mar 18, 2005, 2:26 PM
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Varsity [217]
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Charlotte Clemson Club
Mar 18, 2005, 2:08 PM
[ in reply to Iptay needs a vast overhaul.... ] |
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You can join fellow alumni, pull for the tigers, pay your IPTAY dues, Alumni dues, party, recruit, attend and sponser meetings, laugh, cry, complain all in one location. Or you can stay on the sidelines....
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Virtuoso [699]
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That's not how you need to look at it.
Mar 18, 2005, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to Iptay needs a vast overhaul.... ] |
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I want to get what I pay for as well, but you have to start somewhere. I just think long time donors who never increase their donation level should not be given as much consideration as longtime donors who have been willing to increase their donation level.
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null [10]
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Re: That's not how you need to look at it.
Mar 18, 2005, 8:07 PM
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You said it. Instant gratification probably never will happen with IPTAY, but they do need to re-figure how they do things. They've been in a bit of a slump since George Bennett left.
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Savant [460]
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Re: Here is a fair solution in my opinon.
Mar 18, 2005, 4:27 PM
[ in reply to Iptay needs a vast overhaul.... ] |
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We all agree that something has to be done to raise money and at the same time straighten out a few kinks in our current system. More money has to be generated and at the same time we can't ignore and certainly can't step on those long term givers that made IPTAY what it is today. Its a fine line to tread but a solution is possible and most likely on the horizon.
The Valley should be broken into seating sections based on levels of giving. For instance, tickets between the 40's should require a certain contribution level to IPTAY. Seats from the 30-40 just a bit lower contribution level and so on. Current ticket holders should be given the first right of refusal on their tickets. They are offered the option to give at the new required level and keep their seats, or give at the current level and be reassigned according to the points system. This method would not simply throw the long time givers by the way side and at the same time give them incentive to increase their contribution. Some seats would come open for new blood to filter down into the best seats. The incentive to give as much as possible would still be there so that you move up the pecking order as fast as possible in hopes of claiming those next few seats that come open.
In my opinion, this is a fair and resonable solution to our problem. We as Clemson fans have long gotten a bargain when it comes to donations and ticket prices. its time to join the rest of the nation in making the statement that we want to be part of the bigtime world of college football and we will do what it takes to make it happen. Namely support our athletic teams with increased giving and the same loyalty as before.
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CU Guru [1772]
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You are exactly right
Mar 18, 2005, 2:02 PM
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I would not be surprised to learn that the average contribution for lower deck season tickets in Death Valley is no greater than or possibily less than upper deck tickets. The number, I forget what it was, in the O&W was unbelievably low for such great seats. Rather than going up on ticket prices, the seats should be allocated based on a different scheme that is more sensitive to giving levels. That is how more money can be raised.
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Varsity [217]
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Averages...
Mar 18, 2005, 2:13 PM
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Make sure you read the chart right. That is the average. High, Low, Upper, Lower, Middle, North, South...you get the point.
"You have one hand on a hot stove and one if the freezer, but your average temperature is ok." That kind of average.
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Letterman [264]
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the average couple has
Mar 18, 2005, 3:11 PM
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one breast and one ######## . You have to be careful with averages . The mean is genearlly a better indicator of group dynamic .
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Die-Hard [8977]
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The team facilities...
Mar 18, 2005, 2:22 PM
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don't need to be at the stadium. It's an illogical location unless you're going to dig up the parking lot and put practice fields where it is. The logical thing would be to put the meeting room, locker room, weight room, coaches' offices, etc in a building adjacent to the practice fields. Then again, since when was logic a consideration?
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null [252]
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Re: The team facilities...
Mar 18, 2005, 3:03 PM
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I disagree. For recruiting purposes, the valley is the ONLY place to have them IMO. Great move by Dr. Phillips. Plus, combining them with the club seating to create revenue is the only way we are able to build what we are. Why spend tens of millions on something that would create no new revenue? That is what Bobby Robinson did with Little John.
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Legend [18310]
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My compliments, Tiger!!
Mar 18, 2005, 2:23 PM
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A great post!! Actually, I'm happy that I do not have the $$ to try to outdo everyone else and get my picture in the Orange and White!! Rich folk can't possibly love Clemson any more than this po' geechie!! GO TIGERS!!
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Varsity [217]
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Compliments back..
Mar 18, 2005, 2:29 PM
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Probably don't love them more, just apparently give more.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Some truth and some opinion in your post.
Mar 18, 2005, 2:24 PM
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Sure we need more money, but there is a basic foundation upon which we should not tread. That foundation is the promise from Iptay if you establish season tickets at an Iptay level, you may keep them as long as you maintain that level. You must increase that amount when the level you are in goes up (as all levels did this year). Playing with that promise could put the entire system at risk. Remember, all levels of Iptay had 40% increase this year and ticket prices have been increased. Another thing to consider is some low level Iptay donors with good seats for 30 years also are part of Life memberships in other names. To assume that all that one gives, or gave, to Clemson is that one Iptay membership is often a wrong assumption.
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Orange Blooded [4610]
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"If I can buy 4 tickets on the 40 for a $350"
Mar 18, 2005, 2:25 PM
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We give close to $3k and can't seem to get closer than the goal-line in lower south stands. I'm getting screwed!
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110%er [7022]
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clemson has one of the higest football revenues in the us
Mar 18, 2005, 2:40 PM
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enough said. ticket prices are fine.
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Orange Blooded [2361]
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Re: if that's true, where is the money going?***
Mar 18, 2005, 3:01 PM
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null [146]
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Agree with you 110 percent!***
Mar 18, 2005, 8:28 PM
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Replies: 45
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