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Dabo, To be ALL IN or not to be, that is the question!!
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Rock Defender [54]
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Dabo, To be ALL IN or not to be, that is the question!!
Oct 22, 2010, 12:48 PM
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THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT, BUT MY OPINION ON WHY FOLKS ARE NOT ALL IN. Thank you, now back to our programing!
Dabo was IMO a bad hire, others say "controversial", and whether folks like it or not, Dabo is an extension of 10 yrs of mediocrity under TB.
Dabo had ZERO exp as CO or HC, then hires someone with even less exp to be OC. Puts a friend's son, who is a graduate assistant, in charge of WRs. And hires a Bama cast off as DC. And he brought back Dan Pearman. Otherwise the staff is TB's staff.
CU was not seen as broken, TB brought us back from a deep hole, we just needed the right guy to get us over the hump, but so far our improvement has been marginal at best.
Dabo had my full support for a while, but just like with TB, this year I've noticed lots of little things, and some big ones, that are not improving under Dabo. These things are obvious if you know football and what to look for. I knew mid-way through TB's 3rd season he was a fraud and his success was thanks to RR. And I voiced that opinion for 7.5 yrs in the face of heavy criticism. Who was right? Clearly I was! So maybe, just maybe, I might know what I'm talking about and my opinions are accurate.
It doesn't take 5 years and several recruiting classes to fix a program that doesn't need rebuilding. This is an adjustment year in ways, but we are very talented and FAR from needing to rebuild. Successful coaches & coaching staffs typically make their biggest improvement in year two. TB's only 9 win season was yr 2. For Dabo, this is year 2.5+, but we don't look better. The Auburn game looked like we might be getting over the hump, but then we puked on ourselves and have looked poor since.
Fans being "ALL IN" aren't going to fix one thing on this team or coaching staff. I'd rather be right and unpopular on TNET, than be wrong, or go along to get along, just to be liked! My self-esteem doesn't come from Dabo, Barker, CU, CU sports, and especially not TNET.
The fan base never was, nor ever will be 100% "All IN". No fan base will EVER be 100% "All In", but the overwhelming majority will usually agree. Had we brought in a new staff they would have been given a few years to get major results, but Dabo is an extension of TB and was sold as a diamond in the rough that would be a quick fix due to his enthusiasm, which means he's on a shorter leash than had we cleaned house. In terms of style & personality, Dabo is the anti-Bowden, which is what most felt we needed. As it turns out, experience & serious coaching ability are needed too!
IMO, for these reasons and others, unless Dabo starts doing some big time winning, the fan base will be anything but "All In".
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CU Medallion [67995]
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the only reason there was ever a "deep hole" is because....
Oct 22, 2010, 12:58 PM
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....CU leadership dug one. We didn't have to go downhill but we chose to. Maybe not specifically but that is how the DF decision turned out. I've seen little to show a resolve to reverse the decline in recent years from the leaderrship even though it is largely a group of differrent people now.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Preachin to the choir brother!!***
Oct 22, 2010, 12:59 PM
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CU Medallion [67995]
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was trying to educate those who didn't live that era
Oct 22, 2010, 1:09 PM
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losing it is one thing. doing nothing except giving lip service to get it back is very annoying. seeing the place packed despite that shows me it doesn't need to change in our leaders view anyway. they've got our money
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Rock Defender [54]
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Exactly!!***
Oct 22, 2010, 1:36 PM
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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while I don't disagree...
Oct 22, 2010, 1:04 PM
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using the logic of;
'I wanted the coach gone and he was so I was right' is specious at best.
With VERY few exceptions, ALL coaches are fired. So saying 'He should be gone' is about as safe as predicting that a river will eventually go to the ocean.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with your assessment... but pointing out 'I wanted Bowden gone and he is so you should listen to me' probably won't convince many people.
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Orange Blooded [2418]
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Re: while I don't disagree...
Oct 22, 2010, 1:10 PM
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True... Bobby Bowden... 300+ wins, 12 ACC Championships and 2 National Titles was effectively fired.. even though they didnt use those terms.
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Rock Defender [54]
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In year 2.5 of TB I saw he didn't have what it took and I
Oct 22, 2010, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to while I don't disagree... ] |
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spent years giving detailed reasons WHY, which ultimately ended up being exactly why he was let go, or big reasons for his downfall.
To simply say "he's gotta go" is NOT the same as seeing the signs & saying it YEARS in advance! Some people DO in FACT see and know things sooner than others.
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Rock Defender [54]
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BTW, then, like now, people poo poo'd my reasons and used
Oct 22, 2010, 1:45 PM
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lame excuses and cop-outs to justify keeping TB. This is one of the main reasons me & others did not want Dabo hired. People love Dabo the person, thus they'll make any excuse possible to justify keeping him regardless of how bad things get! Too many people let personal feelings cloud their judgment. Personal is personal, business is business. This is why it's almost always a bad idea to loan money to or go into business with friends & relatives. TB used CU football jobs as a family & friends network, Dabo is doing the exact same thing!
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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curious? what do you suggest they do?
Oct 22, 2010, 1:55 PM
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us being in the middle of the season and all
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Rock Defender [54]
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He was hired based on half a season's results, so he should
Oct 22, 2010, 2:02 PM
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be told he now has half a season to prove he deserves to keep the job, but that won't happen.
I think he needs to be told he better make major improvement next year or he's gone, but they'll probably give him 5 or 6.
when a toe gets gangrene you cut it off, you don't wait till the whole foot is infected.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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even if it happened....do you think they'd tell us?
Oct 22, 2010, 2:05 PM
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i don't think he is a great hire and think his inexperience has shown.
but you don't go firing coaches midseason two outta three years.
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Rock Defender [54]
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TB left mid season on his own. He was given till the end of
Oct 22, 2010, 2:11 PM
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the year he quit mid season.
And I didn't say FIRE Dabo, I said tell him he has the 2nd half of the season to prove he deserves to keep the job.
Two very different concepts!
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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meh....both your points are arguable
Oct 22, 2010, 2:12 PM
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lets just say a coaching staff in flux not exactly great for recruiting.
Like it or not Dabo likely here for a few more years...i just hope he gets better at coaching and looks for some more experience to bring in.
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Rock Defender [54]
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TB himself admitted he was told he'd be let go at the end of
Oct 22, 2010, 2:19 PM
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the year, at which time he decided to quit.
I'm not saying tell the public Dabo is in limbo, but tell him he needs to get it done!!
And FYI, you bring in the right coach and recruiting won't be an issue. That was actually a reason people wanted Dabo hired. They foolishly said it would save that recruiting class, which it did not!
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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there's truth to that...
Oct 22, 2010, 2:20 PM
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go get the right coach and recruiting will take care of itself.
It's ALWAYS foolish to promote from within if it's simply to save one recruiting class.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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well there are two scenarios that may happen here
Oct 22, 2010, 2:22 PM
[ in reply to TB himself admitted he was told he'd be let go at the end of ] |
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(and i know which one you believe will happen)
1. We do not improve and in 2 years we bring in a new AD and name brand coach to try to rebuild what should never have needed to be rebuilt in the first place.
2. Dabo figures it out and we show improvement and eventually become a solid contender in the acc and elsewhere year after year.
It was a gamble to begin with and we will see how it will play out.
B
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Rock Defender [54]
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Here's the problem, Dabo is too much like TB, his loyalties
Oct 22, 2010, 2:29 PM
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are in the wrong place. He's more loyal to friends & family, than he is to his employer, the fans, and his fiduciary duties!
Tb's biggest fault was inability to fire certain people.
Dabo's will be the same!
Jimmy Johnson, Saban, and other great coaches would fire their mother if she wasn't getting the job done.
Does this sound familiar ...
Brad Scott - OL
Scott's son, a GA, WR coach.
Steele - a Saban (Bama) cast off!
TB & dabo think FSU & Bama cast offs make a winning staff.
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All-TigerNet [10939]
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Oh yeah, well I saw it in year -0.5 of TB's tenure!
Oct 22, 2010, 6:50 PM
[ in reply to In year 2.5 of TB I saw he didn't have what it took and I ] |
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Really, I did. It got me called every name in the book, and banned from this site several times, but I saw it when everybody else was "all in."
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Rock Defender [64]
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Hard to Argue with any of that.
Oct 22, 2010, 1:17 PM
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Right now most fans can only hope the rest of the season will turn around in our favor. I would love to see us return to the ACCCG, but it will be very difficult to do from what we've seen so far. I really hope Dabo can get it done here. We've got no other choice but to support him right now and see where we are at seasons end. I personally wanted to see a whole new coaching staff brought in after TB. I like Dabo but he will have to prove that he has what it takes on the field. That means getting us to the next level from where TB left off.
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All-Conference [430]
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While I understand that is your opinion and that's fine
Oct 22, 2010, 1:21 PM
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my opinion is that any coach should be given more than 2 years. I believe Dabo is different that TB and I still believe he will get the job done. I could be wrong about that, but I think it's too early to tell. That's just my opinion and I'm not trying to get you to think that way.
Also, some of us are just "All In" with Clemson University. I was raised to love Clemson and I still do, not just because of athletics, I just love the idea of Clemson, the place, etc. It's a family thing for me - my father went there, my wife and I did, brothers, extended family, etc. Now I do love Clemson sports too and of course I want them to win, but my support of them, including giving to the university and attending games, is not based on whether they win or lose. I do those things because I love Clemson and I love to be there. So it's fine for you to have your opinion but don't try to get some of us to stop supporting Clemson just because they lose some games. I want to support them no matter what - I see the University as being bigger than the president, AD, football coach, etc. That's just my opinion.
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CU Guru [1857]
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Great post GoodTiger!!!***
Oct 22, 2010, 1:40 PM
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Nm
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Asst Coach [744]
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Rock Defender [54]
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i'm a proud alum, I love CU, that's EXACTLY why I'm so
Oct 22, 2010, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to While I understand that is your opinion and that's fine ] |
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critical of our leadership & athletics! Most schools are known first & foremost via athletics! You seem to have a problem separating personal from business. And make no mistake, CU FB & athletics are BIG business! Most people running a multi-million dollar business would not sit by and watch a friend or family member ruin their business. Many do, which they ultimately regret, but most fire or reassign the person and hire someone that can get the job done. And they know every hire is critical and take hiring very seriously. Sadly that isn't the case at CU.
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All-Conference [430]
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And you seem to think that having a losing football team
Oct 22, 2010, 2:00 PM
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ruins Clemson University. I just don't think it does. I'm not saying athletics are not important. I'm just saying that the football team losing does not mean to me that Clemson is ruined, it doesn't change my opinion of Clemson as a university or a place or a institution.
You're right, it's personal with me, it's not a business. Clemson will always be personal to me. I just happen to believe Clemson is still a wonderful place, even if the football team loses. I know you may not agree and that's fine.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Thankfully you are in the minority. Not even Barker will put
Oct 22, 2010, 2:05 PM
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up with losing beyond a certain level because he & others know IT DOES at some point hurt the university from PR, admissions, & financial standpoints.
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CU Guru [1857]
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Not the minority, just not the vocal minority****
Oct 22, 2010, 2:10 PM
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Nm
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Rock Defender [54]
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Thanklyfully the people with your view are few!***
Oct 22, 2010, 2:15 PM
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All-Conference [430]
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I'm not saying there should NEVER be a change made.
Oct 22, 2010, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to Thankfully you are in the minority. Not even Barker will put ] |
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I just think 2 years is too soon. I agreed it was time for TB to go. I just think it's too early for Dabo. We should give him more time. If he doesn't improve things at some point then of course they should make a change. You are just not understanding my point.
But I will say this, even if we always had losing seasons, I would still support Clemson. I would not like it and I do want to win, but it would not change my love and support for the university. If that puts me in a minority, then so be it.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I agree. I'm not talking CU, I'm talking CU sports, but I
Oct 22, 2010, 2:13 PM
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would not support an administration that let CU FB die!
I love & support America, but in no way support Obama or our current government.
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All-Conference [430]
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I don't think we agree at all. You've said that you would
Oct 22, 2010, 2:36 PM
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be in favor of reducing your giving, not buying season tickets, boycotting games, etc. I do not see how that is good for the University or the team. And I won't do those things no matter how much we lose. I don't want to lose, but if we do, it won't change my support. I don't see that as supporting the administration. I see it as supporting the team. I know you don't see it that way and that's your opinion. Not mine
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Rock Defender [54]
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I'm sorry you aren't smart enough to get it, but if you
Oct 22, 2010, 2:50 PM
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continue to support the team financially, no matter what, you are supporting the decisions of the admin too. FB and to a lesser degree basketball support and pay for all other sports, and at CU, our AD gives $ to the university.
If we start losing bad enough, attendance and season ticket sales will drop, thus revenues drop, which hurts everything. That forces the administration to make a change.
Buying tickets to games is like voting for politicians. But we can't vote out bad coaches. We do it by withholding financial support.
Why? Because winning in FB & basketball brings priceless marketing exposure to the school. It improves the quality of admissions. It helps bring in grant money. It improves the school in every way. The biggest jump we ever had in avg. entering freshmen SAT scores was following the 1981 NC.
For some reason you folks don't get the real tangible benefits winning in sports brings a university.
There is a reason almost every school in the US News top 20 is hugely committed to athletics!!
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Rock Defender [54]
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There is a direct positive correlation between winning
Oct 22, 2010, 2:51 PM
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athletics and the quality of the school & academics.
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All-Conference [430]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Every school you mentioned is Private. Also, there are a
Oct 22, 2010, 3:03 PM
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handful of schools that are known for academics first, all are either Ivy League or Ivy League caliber. That list made up almost exclusively of private schools and is under 20 out of thousands of academic institutions.
You're using the exception to try and define the rule.
And I'm sorry if you don't get the point! It's not my fault.
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All-TigerNet [14480]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Last I checked this is a CU sports board, not a CU board. An
Oct 22, 2010, 2:09 PM
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because I do care I won't sit by and watch an important piece of the puzzle fall by the wayside. FB and athletic success are key to PR, quality admissions, & finances.
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All-TigerNet [14480]
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Re: Last I checked this is a CU sports board, not a CU board. An
Oct 22, 2010, 2:11 PM
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hey man you can b!tch on here all you want. that is the bad thing about this site. any other board would have banned many of you long ago. just makes me wonder what color the sky is in your world.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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pedestal again? Argue your points or don't
Oct 22, 2010, 2:14 PM
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either way no reason to ban anybody
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All-TigerNet [14480]
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Re: pedestal again? Argue your points or don't
Oct 22, 2010, 2:43 PM
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did not say he should be banned, just said on other sites he would be. but hey if you think incessant whining is ok you have at it. by the way, i vote straight republican.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Then thankfully Crump & BMeist respect peoples' rights to
Oct 22, 2010, 2:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Last I checked this is a CU sports board, not a CU board. An ] |
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free speech as long as they adhere to board rules.
You must be a liberal. Liberals, Socialists, & Communists are scared of free thought! Why are you scared, or insecure, about the right to free speech and abolishment of censorship?
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CU Guru [1363]
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if by liberals you mean conservatives, then yes
Oct 22, 2010, 2:53 PM
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what world do you live in where liberals are scared of free thought? Im definitely not a liberal, but I think supporting gay rights in itself contradicts ur statement... liberals say all kinds of crazy ####, so idk what ur talking about, conservatives are much more afraid of free thought
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Rock Defender [54]
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Wrong! Liberals promote censorship & big gov't which both
Oct 22, 2010, 3:08 PM
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limit free choice.
The only exceptions being gay rights & abortion, and you are confusion the christian right with republicans & conservatives in general.
True conservatives are far far more in favor of choice than democrats, liberals, & progressives, who all seek to limit choice as much as possible via government intervention, aka socialism & communism.
You know who controls text books in America? The teachers unions, and they are rewriting history repeatedly and promoting their liberal, progressive, and PC agenda.
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CU Guru [1363]
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no i'm pretty sure you have it backwards...
Oct 23, 2010, 11:13 PM
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liberals do not promote censorship, conservatives do... if you look at the names of the groups it's pretty obvious which is which
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Orange Blooded [2380]
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Legend [19609]
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Team Captain [489]
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As hard as it was to accept Ken Hatfield as Danny Ford's
Oct 22, 2010, 4:29 PM
[ in reply to While I understand that is your opinion and that's fine ] |
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replacement, It had no affect on my love and commitment to Clemson. Even though I never cared for Hatfield, he was the coach and Clemson was my team. The fact is: we are 3-3 and have a big game tomorrow. There is nothing we can do about our 3 losses. All Clemson can do is Beat Ga. Tech this week, beat B.C. next week etc. If you are a Dabo fan or not, Ask yourself. "Am I a Clemson fan?" If so, support your team, regardless of the coach. I'm all in.
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Savant [472]
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IMO every great HC had no experience of being a HC before he
Oct 22, 2010, 1:46 PM
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got the job. Just saying
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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yeah...
Oct 22, 2010, 1:52 PM
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but I'll bet most have been a coordinator at SOME level.
I mean, at least be in charge of 1/2 a team for awhile... and have some demonstrated success. We promoted a position coach from the side of the ball struggling. There's just no way that makes football sense.
If it works, it works, but it STILL didn't make any sense. You throw the hail mary HOPING it works, but you do it because you HAVE to, not because it's a good strategy.
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Savant [472]
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I can see your point but....................................
Oct 22, 2010, 2:00 PM
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no one goes into their first job(no matter what the job is) and automatically know what they are doing. It takes time to learn something new. You try different things and see what works good for you. All I'm saying is give him at least 3 years and then see how things are going.
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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You're right...
Oct 22, 2010, 2:17 PM
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but my contention is that Clemson shouldn't be the type of place where you have to wait on a complete neophyte to 'learn his way'.
Given our situation in '08 the idea of 'waiting three years' to see measurable improvements is ridiculous to me. And right now, we don't look any different than Bowden's last couple of teams.
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Savant [472]
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agreed***
Oct 22, 2010, 2:19 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Exactly. You get that early HC exp somewhere else.***
Oct 22, 2010, 2:38 PM
[ in reply to You're right... ] |
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Rock Defender [54]
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Also, you have a far far greater chance of success if you do
Oct 22, 2010, 2:40 PM
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start small and work your way up. You get a big promotion too soon, before you are ready, and you do poorly, it ruins your career.
It's highly unlikely Brad Scott, Amato, nor TB will be HC at a big time FB school ever again!
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Rock Defender [54]
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You work your way up. Position Coach, Coordinator, then
Oct 22, 2010, 2:36 PM
[ in reply to I can see your point but.................................... ] |
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HC at a small school or program.
Coordinators that jump to HC jobs at big schools are typically coordinators for YEARS and the BEST in the game. They become "Head Coach in Waiting" and get groomed for the job!!
You don't just promote a position coach at a big time program. There is a reason only Ford, Dabo, & Les Miles are in their club.
Ford was in a different time from a media & financial perspective.
Miles & Dabo were both promoted by the same AD, TDP.
People get struck by lightening or win the lotto more easily than position coaches get hired as head coaches!! And there are good reasons why!!
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Rock Defender [54]
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Really? So Bear Bryant, Tressel, Meyer, Holtz, Spurrier,
Oct 22, 2010, 1:55 PM
[ in reply to IMO every great HC had no experience of being a HC before he ] |
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and every other household named coach, his 1st HC job was the one he's known for? Seriously? Are you that ignorant or trying to be a funny?
There are only 3 coaches I know of that had NO HC nor OC/DC experience before becoming a HC. Les Miles, Danny Ford, & Dabo.
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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post pointing out...
Oct 22, 2010, 1:56 PM
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that two of those three have won national titles INCOMING!!!
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Savant [472]
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No, I was simply saying that all those coaches you just
Oct 22, 2010, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Really? So Bear Bryant, Tressel, Meyer, Holtz, Spurrier, ] |
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mentioned was not a Hc before they got their chance. They weren't born head coaches. They had to work hard to become great and it took time. Are you that ignorant?
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Varsity [248]
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Re: Really? So Bear Bryant, Tressel, Meyer, Holtz, Spurrier,
Oct 22, 2010, 2:23 PM
[ in reply to Really? So Bear Bryant, Tressel, Meyer, Holtz, Spurrier, ] |
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You must remember that today's HC is no longer just a x and o guy. In fact, most HC's spend a fraction of the their time gameplanning, film reviewing, etc. The Asst's do that...that being said what are the things a HC must do: 1) Motivate- players,coachs,students,fans,community
2) Evaulate- players, recruits, asst coachs
3) Recruit- HC usually brought in as "the closer"
4) Admin- grades, conduct, media are big now
5) Coach- go for it or kick?veto power, gameplan
I think Dabo Swinney knocks #1-#4 out of the park. Therefore, he should get 3-5 years. I am restless but confident he is a winner...most importantly HS players seem to want to play for him...a HUGE ingredient for success.
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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so you're saying...
Oct 22, 2010, 2:25 PM
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our headcoach can do everything...
but coach?
Which side are you arguing again?
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Rock Defender [54]
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But #5 is what keeps or loses your job!! A CEO can be
Oct 22, 2010, 2:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Really? So Bear Bryant, Tressel, Meyer, Holtz, Spurrier, ] |
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awesome in every way, but if the company's stock value falls he is going to get fired! His job #1 is increase shareholder equity!
A HC's job #1 is winning! Everything else is a component of that.
I love how you list the most important thing, WINNING, #5! That's the problem with our fans, we love coaches more than wins and that allows mediocrity!
And FYI, you cannot say he knocks all those out the park. I don't see our players more motivated otherwise they'd be playing better. And our poor OL, WR, & LB play is either due to recruiting or coaching or both, all things a HC is responsible for as part of #1-#4.
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Team Captain [489]
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Bill Belichick was run out of Cleveland and how many Super
Oct 22, 2010, 4:40 PM
[ in reply to IMO every great HC had no experience of being a HC before he ] |
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Bowls have the Patriots been to while he has been HC.? Well actually The Browns were moved to Baltimore and He was out of a job as HC. Just sayin
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Hall of Famer [22404]
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Why did I bother to read that?
Oct 22, 2010, 1:49 PM
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I should know better. What a waste of my lunch time.
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CU Medallion [58501]
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All opinions are welcome.
Oct 22, 2010, 1:49 PM
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Just don't expect others to accept them as fact.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Despite factual support! It's called denial!***
Oct 22, 2010, 3:10 PM
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CU Medallion [58501]
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It's still just your opinion, nothing more.
Oct 22, 2010, 4:48 PM
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You have drawn certain conclusions based on your interpretation of certain facts. That's called an opinion. Other people may use the same facts, some of those facts, or different facts to draw totally different conclusions. In fact, that's exactly what what happens.
I'm sorry to inform you, but you are the one that's in complete and total denial. In fact, you are totally delusional with regard to your own self-importance if you can't accept that. That is my opinion, supported by fact.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Whatever. I listed facts. Call them what you want.***
Oct 22, 2010, 5:49 PM
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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you don't have a say in the matter
Oct 22, 2010, 1:54 PM
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so what difference does it make at this point?
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CU Guru [1857]
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Exactly***
Oct 22, 2010, 2:14 PM
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Nm
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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you may call it your opinion, unfortunately you come off
Oct 22, 2010, 2:20 PM
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stating support of it as fact which it is not.
woody and charlie disagree with the staff issue.
"1 bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch girl", -spence seemed to be the root problem. just because spence 'may have been bad' doesn't make the remaining staff the same. you see this every day when new coaches/management retain members from prior staffs, in corporations and in sports.
i find his hire neither bad nor controversial and i'm more than willing to give tdp and dabo time. you may not be which is your prerogative.
nothing good comes of your constant "complaining", "concern", "opinion stated as fact"... nothing. fans being 'all condemning' aren't gonna fix one thing on this team or coaching staff. not one.
i don't think there is a poster here that spends any amount of time on site that doesn't know how you feel. at some point both sides come off as 'boring' when the mantra is constant. "nothing new to see 'there', move on"...
not saying you should stop, not saying anyone should stop. me, i'm perfectly comfortable in my own skin and sleep well at night with my thoughts and feelings on the subject. i'm glad you do as well.
you've got a strong mind blue, but i would take more of what you write to heart if you learned to reel in your 'statement of facts'. at most, you're simply driving a conditioned response by many. me, nah, just find it boring.
kevin steele a cast off? please.
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CU Guru [1328]
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Well said DSP....
Oct 22, 2010, 2:38 PM
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Some people cannot fathom the idea of "agreeing to disagree" or the fact that others may have opinions that differ from theirs.
It's one thing to tell someone that your opinion is different than theirs. But then to continue to throw reasons out there why that differing opinion is wrong just gets old. It's just like Express's old posts, when you saw it was him/her, you knew what was coming. If you were in the mood to read something negative just for kicks, you knew you could go there.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there's no such thing as a right or wrong opinion, that's why it's an opinion in the first place and not fact.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Much of it is factual whether you agree or not. People
Oct 22, 2010, 3:14 PM
[ in reply to you may call it your opinion, unfortunately you come off ] |
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e.g. the church & governments said the world was flat and they tortured others for even thinking otherwise. But the world is round, isn't it?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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the world being flat was a belief, not a fact. there are
Oct 22, 2010, 3:46 PM
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those in power that will always persecute others based on their beliefs.
blasphemy is a motha if you find yourself the heritic.
is it a fact that those situations did and still do exist? i think so, but don't correlate a belief system with fact.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Beliefs are facts until proven otherwise. There was a great
Oct 22, 2010, 5:51 PM
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debate along these lines once in a town meeting between Chris & Joel on "Northern Exposure". I really miss that show, and it was a great episode.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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beliefs are myths until proven otherwise and are therefore
Oct 22, 2010, 6:09 PM
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disputable, debatable, problematic and/or negotiable.
facts are indisputable, unquestionable and undeniable.
rock on brotha wrong.
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Rock Defender [54]
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FYI, .............
Oct 22, 2010, 3:24 PM
[ in reply to you may call it your opinion, unfortunately you come off ] |
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1. Of course people on the inside will agree PUBLICLY about our staff. That's just silly to think otherwise. Just like Stallings said great things about Dabo. He knows Dabo wasn't ready for this job, as AD he'd never hire Dabo in this way. But he wasn't going to talk bad about him. Family supports family in public even during a feud!
2. Often only one or two people are retained on a staff, not the mass majority like Dabo did. Most new head coaches clean house unless there is someone on the old staff they know well or worked with before or are kept for very specific reasons. That was why many were against Dabo, they wanted a true fresh start, which means cleaning house!
3. You are living in a bubble if you think the hire of Dabo was not controversial. You can THINK it wasn't all you want, but it was VERY controversial. Maybe you should go back in the archives are review board discussion then or dig out some old newspapers.
I'm sorry you disagree, but most of what I post is strongly supported by factual evidence!
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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lol.
Oct 22, 2010, 3:50 PM
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you've convinced me, you're insane.
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CU Medallion [58501]
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Again, a mixture of fact with opinion. Throwing in some
Oct 22, 2010, 4:54 PM
[ in reply to FYI, ............. ] |
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facts does not mean your conclusions are correct. I'm really sorry you can't understand the difference.
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Rock Defender [54]
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FACTS! and history says my conclusions zare fine!***
Oct 22, 2010, 5:56 PM
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Call me naive..........
Oct 22, 2010, 3:02 PM
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but someone (even if you are an alum which I seriously doubt) who admittedly doesn't contribute to Clemson's general fund, doesn't participate in your local Clemson Club activities, doesn't belong to IPTAY and doesn't go to games, IMO, shouldn't have sh*t to say about ANYTHING that goes on.
You run your effin' mouth incessantly on this board and yet you don't contribute one penny or one ounce of effort to the University.
IMO, you don't get the opportunity to have any say in anything nor should anyone consider yours a valid opinion.
Wanna make a change???????? Call the University up and ask them HOW you can help, how you can get involved so you can affect a change in attitudes.........otherwise, do yourself and every freakin' body else a favor and Shut The EFF Up!
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
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Rock Defender [54]
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I graduated in '88. Was in IPTAY 19 straight yrs giving
Oct 22, 2010, 3:33 PM
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$2400 the last 5 before I stopped during yr 8 or 9 of TB's tenure.
I DO go to Clemson Club meetings, and game viewings, but stopped going to games in person year 9 of TB.
Who are these people? I know them all personally, if you are an informed & active CU alum you should know them too.
Bill Amick
Bob Server
Chip Egan
Bryan O'Rourk
Byron Harder
Lewis Jordan
These are all important & well known people at Clemson. I'm on quite friendly terms or better with all of them.
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Junkie [546]
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You haven't gone to a game since you are saying?***
Oct 22, 2010, 4:03 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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havent gone the last 3 years***
Oct 22, 2010, 5:57 PM
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Aficionado [118]
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Re: Dabo, To be ALL IN or not to be, that is the question!!
Oct 22, 2010, 3:12 PM
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> Dabo was IMO a bad hire, others say "controversial",
> and whether folks like it or not, Dabo is an
> extension of 10 yrs of mediocrity under TB.
Good point. I too think Swinney was a bad hire, not a controversial one.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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posting this kind of garbage is moronic....***
Oct 22, 2010, 7:34 PM
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All-Conference [418]
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Re: Dabo, To be ALL IN or not to be, that is the question!!
Oct 22, 2010, 9:27 PM
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Re: Go back and recheck facts on TB's 9 win seasons.
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