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Orange Blooded [3820]
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just the facts for all the naysayers...Fire Danny!
Oct 8, 2010, 12:07 AM
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With only the bowl game left in the 1978 season, Clemson hired a football coach with no previous Head Coaching experience, Danny Ford. Thirty years later, 6 games into the 2008 season, Clemson again hired a coach with no Head Coaching experience, Dabo Swinney. After roughly two years, here are the FACTS of how their teams fared.
Ignoring all games against previously Division II schools, Dabo Swinney is 11-10 in his first 21 such games (mid-2008 through today). In his first 2 full years versus Div I opponents (1979 and 1980), Danny Ford was 13-9 (22 games).
The combined records of Swinney’s DI opponents is 147-106 or 58.1%. Ford’s opponents had a combined record of 148-101 or 59.4%.
Swinney’s ACC record is 9-6, including 1 ACCCG, as compared to D Ford’s 8-6 (and giving him credit for 2 victories against Va Tech). During Ford’s years 5 separate ACC teams were ranked at some point, but only 2 ended up in the final polls. Swinney’s teams have played 6 games against ACC teams that were ranked at one point in the AP poll; 3 of those games were against teams ranked at the end of the year.
Swinney’s bowl record is 1-1 versus D Ford’s 1-1. Ford did not have to coach any games to get into his first bowl game, the prestigious Gator Bowl win over Ohio State at the end of the 1978 season. Swinney had to go 4-2 at the end of the 2008 year to earn a game against Nebraska in that year's Gator Bowl.
Swinney’s record against USuC is 1-1 while Ford was also 1-1. However, USuC was higher ranked in 1980 than in either of Swinney’s years. The combined record of USuC teams that played against Dabo’s teams was only 14-12. Ford’s USuC opponents were 16-8 total in the two years.
Still, both coaches were 2-2 against the SEC in total.
Both Swinney and Ford lost to a 2-win team: Dabo to Maryland in 2009, and Ford (17 to 34) to Duke in 1980.
Both were 5-1 against teams with losing records at the end of the year (losing only to the aforementioned 2-win teams).
Looking at the converse, Dabo is 0-3 in games against teams with 10 win seasons (not counting Miami and Auburn of 2010). Ford was 0-2.
Dabo’s record against teams ranked in the week prior to their game is 1-5. Ford’s record was 3-4. But….
Of his 7 opponents who were ranked in the week prior to their game, only 4 made it to the end of the year ranked. Ford’s record against teams that ended the year in the Top 20 was 1-3. Swinney’s record against teams ranked in the year’s final poll (Top 20 only) is a similar 1-4 (assuming either Auburn or Miami end up in the poll at the end of this year).
Against all teams ranked at some point in the season, Dabo is 3-7. Ford was 5-6. The difference in this stat is essentially Wake Forest: at one point Wake was somehow ranked 14th in 1979 only to get pasted by Ford's team 31-0, ne'er to show up in the polls again.
Ford’s team climbed as high as 13 in 1979 in the AP poll (thanks agin to Wake Forest). Swinney’s 2009 team got as high as 15.
But what did each inherit as a program? In the two years prior to Ford taking over, Clemson won 18 of 22 (18-4) games not ending in a tie, or 82%. In the 22 games prior to Dabo taking over, Clemson was 13-9, or 59%.
So I ask you - yeah you naysayer - given the obviously great disparity in the state of the program prior to each coach's takeover, and the not so meaningful differences in their records so far, just WHAT are you complaining about?
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Legend [16167]
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Wow...you need a hobby...***
Oct 8, 2010, 12:47 AM
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Legend [16039]
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Man they complained that DF did not throw the ball enough. Some
Oct 8, 2010, 1:14 AM
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of those yahoo's are going to complain because that’s what they do. They complain about their jobs, their spouses, just about life in general. You research is impressive BUT it means nothing for those who ARE going to be a whiners regardless of who is coaching at Clemson.
The one thing DF did not have to deal with was having the game replayed every day this week on Comcast or CSS what ever the station is. Plus he did not have to deal with fans and those entire so call sports analyst evaluating his job performance almost 24/7. If he had I am not so sure he even makes out of the 1979 season. If Charlie Pell had not ditched the Tigers for Florida, but instead had been forced out DF would have been the Hatfield of Clemson Football.
Don't forget Dabo is coaching in a more challenging college football environment too. I want to win too but I am not going to stay pissed the entire season. There is life after college football Saturday!!!
Message was edited by: wueagle86®
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Rooter [238]
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Re: Man they complained that DF did not throw the ball enough. Some
Oct 8, 2010, 2:00 AM
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I think positioning your team and giving fans unrealistic expectations is one thing that doesn't help Dabo. He is a great guy and good coach, but you never expected much of Ford or even Pell's teams because they never said they would win the national championship or it would be the best decade of Clemson football. They all had press conferences and met with the media but would never talk that long. Spurrier is the same in that regard. You only heard we have alot of work to do etc. To say there wasn't press or call in shows in the 80's is crazy. Complaining isnt new...just on the internet.
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Legend [16264]
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That's just it. Danny Ford inherited a fan base that didn't
Oct 8, 2010, 2:25 AM
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expect a national championship so he never had to address it. Since then, though, it would be blasphemy for any coach to even suggest that anything less is a worthy enough goal. Anybody who says otherwise is certainly entitled.
We've tasted the water from the well before. And we'll always go thirsty until we drink from it again. Maybe Dabo's got the divining rod up there somewhere. I hope so. In the meantime, let's win the next one.
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Head Coach [759]
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Are you going to preach the comparison next year?
Oct 8, 2010, 2:08 AM
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You will follow the argument through to completion right?
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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I assume you want the Nat'l Champ included....
Oct 8, 2010, 6:24 AM
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but not the two years' probation? or the basically .500 years after probation (1984 and 85, 12-10 against DI opponents)?
No one said Dabo was going to win a Natl CHamp per se - just that the complaints so far were unwarranted.
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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the complaints are only...
Oct 8, 2010, 7:53 AM
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unwarranted if you follow your argument through to the conclusion; Danny won and won a lot right after his second year. You're saying we shouldn't complain because he's on par with Danny at this time, which is meaningless unless from this point on he continues to mirror Danny.
At which point the question is fair; do you think he will continue to follow Danny's path and win the national title next year?
Personally, I think the comparisons to Danny are a little silly. He was the right guy, in the right place, at the right time. As we saw when he went to Arky and it didn't work out... he wasn't a panacea for anything wrong with your program. Should we forevermore hire really young unqualified coaches as head men hoping to duplicate what we saw with him? I think that would be silly.
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Fan [67]
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Re: I assume you want the Nat'l Champ included....
Oct 8, 2010, 8:00 PM
[ in reply to I assume you want the Nat'l Champ included.... ] |
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include that one too. why of all coaches pick the most successful and stop short at when he started getting successful?
and what about the bowden comparison, can I use that one to cancel your comparison. this is silly. its too early to tell, the end! no danny comparison or bowden comparison. however last week, the team crapped the bed. period. he gets this year and maybe next year to make his case.
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CU Guru [1020]
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Waiting for the Frank Beamer comparions now***
Oct 8, 2010, 2:55 AM
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All-In [40950]
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For every coach that sucked and got good
Oct 8, 2010, 7:33 AM
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I can find 10 coaches that sucked and never got good
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Varsity [238]
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Can you run the numbers on Bobby Bowden for me?***
Oct 8, 2010, 5:12 AM
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Standout [333]
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Good deal, we win the National
Oct 8, 2010, 7:37 AM
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Championship next season.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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for all the pumpers......
Oct 8, 2010, 7:44 AM
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first 25 games @ clemson
tommy 16-9
dabo 15-10
you can get facts that to support pretty much any opinion so don't act like just b/c something is similar to the past that the results will be the same..........AND vice versa
bottomline is (like it or not) the jury is STILL out on Dabo.........nothing is for sure he's gonna succeed......nor is it for sure that he's gonna be a bust. All we have to go by RIGHT NOW is the RESULTS on the field........and if the results are on the field are 7-5/8-4 that tells me we've not made progress from our previous staff. When or IF he gets us consistently 9-3/10-2 championship status & continue dominance of USC then we can say he's arrived, but right now it's UNCERTAIN EITHER WAY.
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CU Medallion [58501]
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That's exactly right, so what? Nobody is
Oct 8, 2010, 8:25 AM
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using that to show that Dabo is the next Danny, simply that it's too early to know.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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Dabo won't ARRIVE if you won't let him....
Oct 8, 2010, 6:37 PM
[ in reply to for all the pumpers...... ] |
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the constant whining and harping turns off fans, recruits, and possible good assistant coaches alike.
How then would any coach be successful in that environment?
I am not pumping Dabo - I have no clue what he will eventually do with this program. I do know he has done almost as much as Danny did in the same time, but starting from significantly less.
What I also know, sir, is that naysayers rarely accomplish something on their own, always hang around people who are more successful than they are, and never ever contribute to the success around them. They invariably take on a faux arrogance in calling out the ways that someone ostensibly has "let them down".
Somehow Clemson has garnered its fair share of naysayers, hangers on, and complainers. It used to be that Clemson fans were known for their volume and raucor.
Now, with comments like yours, it is apparent that the neighborhood has gone cheap....
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CU Medallion [58501]
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An excellent, valid comparison.
Oct 8, 2010, 7:48 AM
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It does not mean that Dabo will be as successful as Danny Ford. In fact, he may turn out to be a massive failure. What this comparison does show is that at this stage it's too early to tell, and anyone complaining about Dabo's record to date would have, following the same logic, been screaming for the head of the greatest coach we ever had in 1980.
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Orange Blooded [3290]
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Re: An excellent, valid comparison.
Oct 8, 2010, 7:51 AM
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and if the internet was around 30 yrs ago (at least like it is today) then some of these bumbleheads would have been screaming for Coach Ford's head.
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CU Medallion [58501]
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Without a doubt***
Oct 8, 2010, 7:59 AM
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110%er [7020]
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Re: just the facts for all the naysayers...Fire Danny!
Oct 8, 2010, 8:12 AM
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i don't see any relevance whatsoever
jmo
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CU Medallion [55491]
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Re: just the facts for all the naysayers...Fire Danny!
Oct 8, 2010, 10:15 AM
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From reading all the responses of this thread. Its easy to say that, the Yeah still has hopes and dreams that the Dabo to Danny comparison will bring success. ( I'm in that group ) Most of the Naysayers are the ones that came along after Danny. They have heard about the good ole Danny Ford days. The stories feel good to them, but they have never saw nor felt what we that were there in that time saw and felt. We can't blame them for wanting to experience that depth of pride. Being so proud for the team that you have dreamed of what that feeling would feel like. Those of us that has experienced those feelings, we know its more than a dream could prepare us for. When people stop complaining, they have lost that hope that their team will ever give them that ultimate feeling of pride. H&ll, I would love a fresh feeling of those feelings again myself. But I understand that all the pieces have to fit. With atleast 60 guys at one time knowing exactly what their job is and doing it. And luck does'nt have a dang thing to do with it. I think that Dabo has the motivation and right work ethics to get it done. I think he is getting the talent together to get it done. The coaching staff, I wonder about if the right pieces are fitting there. But everyone should experience the winning of the NC atleast twice....
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Standout [334]
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Re: just the facts for all the naysayers...Fire Danny!
Oct 9, 2010, 9:20 AM
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Well I disagree with you about luck being involved. That year (1981) we had zero significant injuries. And we came out of bowl season as the ONLY undefeated team left standing. If any of the other teams had been undefeated, no way would we have been # 1.
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