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Follower [283]
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Tired of all the Plyler mimics jumping on the Barker bashing
Apr 8, 2009, 9:20 AM
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bandwagon. I continue to hear people say that the current administration does not support athletics, but those same people offer little evidence. State institutions across the country are facing financial issues, so if that is their only evidence, then it is a shame.
Also, as a current Clemson student, I have worked very hard to get to my graduation and I am tired of people telling those of us that are in school now that Clemson is becoming elitist and that it has become too hard to be admitted. The truth is that Clemson has become a popular destination for students around the region and when you have applications that are nearly twice the number of students that can be admitted, some have to be turned away. The Bridge Program, which is growing, is a good alternative and an opportunity to be a part of the Clemson family one year later.
Finally, the same people that complain about legacy students that are not granted admission would never argue on behalf of a legacy athlete who wasn't good enough to play at this level. If we only want the best athletes to get the spots on our teams, why shouldn't the best students be granted admission?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Excellent point.
Apr 8, 2009, 9:28 AM
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I think barker is doing a great job.
the less "mickey types" we have running around clemson, the better.
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All-In [30897]
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but Plyler is on the raido.. AND HAS A BLOG !!!
Apr 8, 2009, 9:37 AM
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what do you have motorscooter?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Dude, anyone can have a blog. Give me a break.***
Apr 8, 2009, 9:38 AM
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All-In [30897]
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no wai!!!!***
Apr 8, 2009, 9:38 AM
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All-In [42301]
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I'm sorry.
Apr 8, 2009, 9:38 AM
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See, now you made me post something today... but I'm not going to talk about athletics or say Barker doesn't support them. However...
The Bridge Program is a scam. It's a money-making scheme for the University that MIGHT help some students get to Clemson. For others, it's just a way to take their cash and make some other folks around town some money on the housing. If a student doesn't make it in the Bridge Program, that's cool. The numbers don't count against Clemson's stats.
I see good S.C. students every year with 4.0 GPAs and good SATs struggle to get into Clemson now. We have raised the admission standards without making a parallel change to academic quality in the past ten years.
Okay, so the value of my diploma has gone up. That's great. But I can't stand seeing good S.C. students getting overlooked or conned into the Bridge Program when they have every right to be at Clemson.
This University has stood since existence as a great opportunity for the common man to go and get and education. I remember the story of my grandfather, the only person out of eight children to go to college, arriving to Clemson with just a small duffel bag with his belongings.
I dreamed of coming to Clemson and could probably still get in today with my scores from back then. I met several students there, however, who didn't have those scores yet still had their dream fulfilled. Some of them were like my grandfather. I appreciated that diploma, but I think sometimes it meant a lot more to them.
Now, however, we're catering to more out of state students (meaning more cash for the school and more elitism in admissions) while good S.C. students have to settle for that other place down the road... or join the Bridge Program and MAYBE get into Clemson.
We cannot become Duke overnight. And based on our history, we cannot simply abandon all this school has stood for and become an elitist out-of-state university.
I know there are know simple answers and I feel where you are coming from. I just hate to see these good students struggling to get in to the school they've always dreamed of attending.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Don't forget rampant corruption in the Barker administration
Apr 8, 2009, 9:40 AM
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in regard to tuition increases, money stockpiling and employee termination.
Barker is about on par with the Bush administration for ethics.
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All-In [42301]
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Ugh, stupid error in last paragraph.
Apr 8, 2009, 9:40 AM
[ in reply to I'm sorry. ] |
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I guess that S.C. edumacation got me.
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Legend [15751]
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Ha ha. I think you've established the credibility on this
Apr 8, 2009, 9:59 AM
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site to forgive the occasional spelling error, Cata.
This idea that people's dreams of attending Clemson now cannot be realized because of Barker is a bit of a non-starter. People dream of going to Duke, Princeton, Harvard, etc. Thousands of those dreams are crushed every year. Back in the 1990s and 1980s when Clemson was much easier to get into, there were still kids who dreamed of getting into Clemson and were denied. There will never be a time when that is not the case. None of that changes the fact that Clemson, moreso than any public university in the state of South Carolina, has become an attractive school for thousands of potential students across the country. This is a good thing for Clemson and for the citizens of South Carolina. Framing this argument as if Clemson is now somehow denying SC citizens an education is just not appropriate. There are literally dozens of schools that SC residents can get into in-state that will meet their needs, and none of those schools are in a position, as Clemson is, to attract high-caliber students from around the country to come to (and more possibly stay in) South Carolina, and to provide a place for the best and the brightest of SC to go that is affordable (relative to private schools) and in-state.
I know virtually nothing about the Bridge Program, although I find it hard to believe that it is a simple money-making scheme.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Ask Provost Dory Helms why students are required to stay
Apr 8, 2009, 10:16 AM
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in an apartment complex where she makes a profit from.
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All-In [42301]
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Actually, it appears that's just a rumor.****
Apr 8, 2009, 10:20 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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And VT didn't run down the hill....
Apr 8, 2009, 10:22 AM
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...right.
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All-In [30897]
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i fidn this hard to believe
Apr 8, 2009, 9:44 AM
[ in reply to I'm sorry. ] |
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I see good S.C. students every year with 4.0 GPAs and good SATs struggle to get into Clemson now. We have raised the admission standards without making a parallel change to academic quality in the past ten years.
I've had 2 recent family members apply and get into Clemson who did not have 4.0's and only had decent SAT scores.
One had like a 1100 SAT score..and i think the new max is like 1800?
Also a 4.0 is not that important if your all classes where general gym.
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110%er [6592]
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its true in some cases
Apr 8, 2009, 9:46 AM
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depending on what major you are applying to get into. Some accept less students then others.
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All-In [30897]
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i guess.. 1 was computer science the other business***
Apr 8, 2009, 9:47 AM
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All-In [42301]
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It happens.
Apr 8, 2009, 9:46 AM
[ in reply to i fidn this hard to believe ] |
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Although, admissions is not always solely based on GPA and SAT.
Granted, for a lot who struggle, it's the SAT factor. That in itself (and I'm talking about universities in general, not just Clemson) is a bit of a crock as one's high school GPA is far more indicative of how the student will perform in college rather than the SAT.
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All-In [30897]
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I also gad
Apr 8, 2009, 9:49 AM
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6 friends who came in after a year or 2 at tech also.
My point is, if you want into Clemson you will make it. Might not be out of the gate, but any thing is better than gaspumper U.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Yah, that's not true at all.
Apr 8, 2009, 9:50 AM
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Plenty of people from SC want into Clemson, but they now can't afford it, or the admission standards are too high.
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All-In [30897]
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i made it through 8 years, 7 off campus.
Apr 8, 2009, 9:54 AM
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IN that 8 years, i got about a total of about 3K from various family memebrs. I begged and borrowed the rest and I have the student loans to prove it.
IF you want to go to Clemson, you will. If you want to make excuses, you won't.
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All-In [42301]
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Not everyone is you.***
Apr 8, 2009, 10:04 AM
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All-In [30897]
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true.. there is only 1 me and i am him
Apr 8, 2009, 10:14 AM
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However that is not the point. Any one can make it to Clemson if they want to.
I am a liberal demo's worst nightmare. My mom got pregnant when she was 16 so she dropped out of HS at 16. My dad dropped out his jr year. By the time he was 21 and she was 20 they had 4 kids. I grew up in a not so great neighborhood with nothing. Po white trash, the byproduct of teenage high school drop outs.
Yet some how I managed to run from the thugs, stay off the drugs, and make it into Clemson where I managed to pay my own way. Had to drop out twice and work full time for a year but I made it. Because I am super smart, or privileged, or a ner jersey yankee? Nope. I was none of those things, but I was DETERMINED. I had numerous friends who did the SAME exact thing.
Had to take a longer road than many, but made it.
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [30897]
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true. my 1st tuition bill was $1250. LAst 1 was like $1700
Apr 8, 2009, 10:49 AM
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So in 8 years tution only went up about $500 a semester.
however grants and loans are larger now and i never had a hope scholarship. ALso.. when i did drop out to work minmum wage was like $5.
Tution is a pain, but it will only hold you back if you use it as an excuse. Maybe you have to do more work at a tech school xfer in your last 2 years.. do summer school at tech.
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Rock Defender [54]
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minimum wage is not much higher than it was when you
Apr 8, 2009, 10:58 AM
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went, and tuition is now $11,108.
Your argument that tuition is not a problem does not hold up, at all.
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All-In [30897]
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your 2 points.
Apr 8, 2009, 11:12 AM
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minimum wage is not much higher than it was when you went
It was 5 now it's 7. That is a 40% increase. If you were to get a 40% raise, i dare say you would not claim it isn't much differet.
and tuition is now $11,108
That is per year. My numbers were per semester.
[quote]Your argument that tuition is not a problem does not hold up, at all.
[/quote]
I neve posted it wasnt a problem. here is what i posted for clarification...
_________________
Tution is a pain, but it will only hold you back if you use it as an excuse. Maybe you have to do more work at a tech school xfer in your last 2 years.. do summer school at tech
______________
Coming up with 3K a year was no easy task for me either That is why i had to drop out twice to work full time, did not have a car, worked part time, had to take classes during summer, and will pay off my mortgage before i pay off my student loans. Fortunatley I have recovered from the credit card debt i piled up.
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110%er [8866]
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A 4.0 GPA on SC's grading scale is average.
Apr 8, 2009, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to i fidn this hard to believe ] |
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With every class with the word honors in front of it being graded on a 5.0 scale, and any AP class being graded on a 6.0 scale, a 4.0 doesn't mean what it used to.
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Rock Defender [54]
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A 4.0 in a SC public school probably is not comparable to a
Apr 8, 2009, 9:45 AM
[ in reply to I'm sorry. ] |
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4.0 for a public school student in other states, particulary VA, NJ or NY.
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All-In [42301]
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True. Although it depends on the high school.***
Apr 8, 2009, 9:46 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Getting away from the northern end, it truly is the Garden
Apr 8, 2009, 9:48 AM
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State.
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110%er [6592]
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his point wasnt comparing our grades to other states
Apr 8, 2009, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to A 4.0 in a SC public school probably is not comparable to a ] |
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I thought it was more to bring up one of the principles of Clemsons founding which was in fact to provide "affordable" education to "South Carolinians"
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All-In [42301]
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Yep.***
Apr 8, 2009, 9:50 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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It Clemson wants to have academic credibility, it will have
Apr 8, 2009, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to his point wasnt comparing our grades to other states ] |
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to depend on out of state students because SC Schools are unable to provide the needed feedstock for a quality institution of higher learning.
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All-In [42301]
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We had academic credibility before then.
Apr 8, 2009, 9:56 AM
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Time magazine thought so, at least.
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Follower [283]
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Don't forget that a number of the out of state students are
Apr 8, 2009, 10:47 AM
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the children of parents that attended Clemson. The number of former students from places like NJ, GA, and NC means that there are a number of second generation Clemson students coming from those areas.
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110%er [6592]
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maybe, but you cant forget your mission statement
Apr 8, 2009, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to It Clemson wants to have academic credibility, it will have ] |
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and the principles you are founded on. Also, I might add that we have had plenty of academic credibility and have been thriving long before Barker was president.
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Rock Defender [54]
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and Clemson has been a destination for out of state students
Apr 8, 2009, 10:06 AM
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for decades. Heck, when I enrolled out of state CU was cheaper than in-state UVa. CU has always had a large out of state population.
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110%er [6592]
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very true, and out of staters are needed
Apr 8, 2009, 10:11 AM
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its a balancing act, but I think the University is trying to push the percentages just to achieve some budget short falls or fill some rainy day fun of Barkers
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Follower [283]
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I agree with you in regarding the SC students and I have
Apr 8, 2009, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to I'm sorry. ] |
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friends that were not able to gain admission despite the fact that they were great students. In most of those cases they were applying for competitive programs that have limited spots such as nursing and engineering. I also think that it is awful that some of them will be the first kid in their family not to end up at Clemson. With such an increase in applications, I think there were nearly 10,000 last year, some deserving people are on the outside looking in. While I can agree with some of your points regarding the Bridge program, I think it can be good way for kid who really want to go to Clemson to be assured a spot if they do the work. I do think the cost of the program is way too high.
I guess there is a middle ground somewhere, but short of expanding the size of the student body, I am not sure there are any good short-term answers.
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Enthusiast [84]
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Re: I'm sorry.
Apr 8, 2009, 9:56 AM
[ in reply to I'm sorry. ] |
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I'm sorry, but as an out of state student, I have to disagree with your statement that Clemson caters to us. Clemson is much harder to get into if you live in GA, NC, NJ, or where ever else outside of SC. Only 1/3 of a class can be from outside South Carolina. The Bridge program is also not a scam. I know plenty of people who have done that and are now in Clemson. Its a great way to work your way into the university. And times have changed since your grandfather went here. Clemson cannot still be just a poor farmers college and survive.
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All-In [42301]
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Re: I'm sorry.
Apr 8, 2009, 9:59 AM
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I did not say Clemson caters to out-of-state students. I said that they have tried to increase out-of-state enrollment while turning away in-staters.
The Bridge Program is costly, it forces students to live in housing that gives money to local businessmen, and it pumps more cash into the school without the promise of admission. And if someone fails in that program, the numbers don't count against Clemson.
Explain again how this program doesn't just mean more cash for the school.
I wasn't asking that Clemson remain a poor farmers' school. I'm asking that Clemson not forget its roots and the people that this school was primarily created to serve.
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Enthusiast [84]
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Re: I'm sorry.
Apr 8, 2009, 10:04 AM
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"Now, however, we're catering to more out of state students (meaning more cash for the school and more elitism in admissions) while good S.C. students have to settle for that other place down the road"
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All-In [42301]
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I apologize. I misspoke.
Apr 8, 2009, 10:06 AM
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I should not have used the word "cater".
However, it is true we are denying more S.C. students.
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110%er [6592]
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actually Barker and the board just voted
Apr 8, 2009, 10:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'm sorry. ] |
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recently to increase that 1/3 figure you speak of I think. Also, the bridge program as a whole isnt a scam and can be very helpful, but there are some definite shading dealings and alternative motives going on behind the scenes
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All-Conference [401]
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Re: I'm sorry.
Apr 8, 2009, 10:08 AM
[ in reply to I'm sorry. ] |
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Catahoula . . . This post could not be further from the truth. You try telling your story to most of the students going through the Bridge Program. They are proving to be the most successful of the transfer students attending Clemson and the major source of those transfering into Clemson. Also this year, Clemson has received over 16,000 applications,YES 16,000, for 2700 slots. Clemson is the school of choice in SC. Also the Bridge Program is for SC students. I have a son that just graduated from Clemson and I am proud of what his degree stands for. Also the number of out of state students has not adjusted in the last eight years. You need to review your facts before bashing!
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110%er [6592]
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actually the percentage of out of state has risen
Apr 8, 2009, 10:15 AM
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I seem to remember some articles about this not too long ago.
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110%er [6592]
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it was either that or there was a push to
Apr 8, 2009, 10:16 AM
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increase the percentage by the board
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All-In [42301]
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Of course it's a major source for transferring in.
Apr 8, 2009, 10:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'm sorry. ] |
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That's the point of the program.
Here's what I know:
-The Bridge Program costs $9,770 for the year.
-About half of that goes to living in private housing through a deal worked out with private businessmen.
-If someone doesn't make it, Clemson takes their money without penalty.
Check out this article:
http://www.thestate.com/local/story/732954.html
And someone has already posted that the adjustments to out of state have been made.
I'm glad you're proud of your son. You should be. Was he a Bridge Program transfer?
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110%er [8866]
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Has the percentage of out of state students increased?
Apr 8, 2009, 10:15 AM
[ in reply to I'm sorry. ] |
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As of last year, it was the same as it was when I entered in 1996, at roughly 34%.
If that is still the case, then they aren't catering to out of state students, but instead are pulling more of the higher qualified in-state students. All of which is by-product of the lottery scholarship incentives and the population increase of the state, over the last 15 years.
With the population of the masses increasing and the student population remaining roughly the same, the competition to "get in" is going to get tougher.
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Rookie [14]
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No, it has not increased
Apr 8, 2009, 11:10 AM
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Admissions still strives for the 65/35% ratio.
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Rookie [14]
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Re: I'm sorry.
Apr 8, 2009, 11:03 AM
[ in reply to I'm sorry. ] |
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First, Clemson is not taking in more out of state students. Admissions strives for the same 65/35% ratio that is has for decades.
Second, the Bridge program is far from a scam. Clemson has always accepted transfer students. Now, Clemson accepts fewer transfer students from tech schools and other 4 year schools around the state, and is replacing them with Bridge Program students. Historically, transfer students have a significantly higher fail out/drop out rate than students who matriculate as freshman. The Bridge Program is a transfer program that provides 2 major benefits over traditional transfers: 1) Clemson influences the curriculum, making sure that Bridge students get the foundation that is necessary to be successful at Clemson, 2) It provides a filter - these students want to come to Clemson, and are demonstrating that by moving to Clemson and attending Tri-County as opposed to attending their local tech school. As a result, these students should value a Clemson education more, and should do better in the Classroom.
And finally, Clemson responds to the forces of Supply and Demand just likely other major universities have and all good businesses do. Supply is limited, while applications have increased by something like 70% over the past 10 years. Some students who were accepted 10 years ago wouldn't be today because there are more and better students applying for the same number of limited spots. Clemson is actually increasing the size of the freshman class slightly to try to accomodate more, but there are limited resources. Clemson is educating more South Carolinians than ever before.
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Rookie [14]
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This is completely FALSE
Apr 8, 2009, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to I'm sorry. ] |
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First, Clemson is not taking in more out of state students. Admissions strives for the same 65/35% ratio that is has for decades.
Second, the Bridge program is far from a scam. Clemson has always accepted transfer students. Now, Clemson accepts fewer transfer students from tech schools and other 4 year schools around the state, and is replacing them with Bridge Program students. Historically, transfer students have a significantly higher fail out/drop out rate than students who matriculate as freshman. The Bridge Program is a transfer program that provides 2 major benefits over traditional transfers: 1) Clemson influences the curriculum, making sure that Bridge students get the foundation that is necessary to be successful at Clemson, 2) It provides a filter - these students want to come to Clemson, and are demonstrating that by moving to Clemson and attending Tri-County as opposed to attending their local tech school. As a result, these students should value a Clemson education more, and should do better in the Classroom.
And finally, Clemson responds to the forces of Supply and Demand just likely other major universities have and all good businesses do. Supply is limited, while applications have increased by something like 70% over the past 10 years. Some students who were accepted 10 years ago wouldn't be today because there are more and better students applying for the same number of limited spots. Clemson is actually increasing the size of the freshman class slightly to try to accomodate more, but there are limited resources. Clemson is educating more South Carolinians than ever before.
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MVP [506]
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you lost me at .....also, as a current Clemson student***
Apr 8, 2009, 10:25 AM
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CU Guru [1764]
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Barker lied at the national IPTAY meeting regarding...
Apr 8, 2009, 10:49 AM
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the AARC... maybe he's lying about a lot of other things too....
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