|
Replies: 34
| visibility 1
|
Legend [16945]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10796
Joined: 1/25/07
|
USC vs Clemson money
Jun 27, 2012, 3:54 PM
|
|
There is quite a long thread about the $22 million dollar disparity between Clemson and USC athletic budgets. The problem is that it isn't true. Plyers blog doesn't link to any sources for his financial info. The fact is most articles attempting to compare these numbers are comparing apples and oranges. Detailed info is not easy to find and, even when you do, you still don't really know what is going on because you have no idea how each school is expensing, amortizing, or depreciating expenditures. The only real indicator you have is gross revenue. And with actual real, hard numbers here is what I can find.
http://southcarolina.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1376042
The above source provides a detailed article of USC projected 2012 revenue. The grand total is $87.79 million dollars. This is roughly the number that I see thrown around every time that people say we are being left behind. Let's also remember that this is their number following the two most successful athletic years in their schools history.
I cannot find a readily available source for final fy 2011 or projected fy 2012 for Clemson. But what I did find is a great breakdown of our 2010 actual revenues : http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2011/3/8/2032333/iptay-finances-and-cuad-budget-fy10
Clemson athletic revenue totaled $61.85 million. 2010 made roughly $25 million less than USC did in 2011. Please commence your Internet freak out.
If you're done, please look closely at the two numbers. Clemson does not include Iptay revenues in that number while south Carolina includes gamecock club numbers . Iptay earnings were $20 million. Raising our total revenue to $81.85 million in 2010 compared to their $87.79 million projected for 2012. $6 million is a far sight less than $22 million and if you adjust for increases in our revenue in 2011 probably even much closer.
If you disagree with these please provided some kind of basis. The business of college sports blog is not a valid reference. I'd love to see a 2012 projection for Clemson like the one USC issued but I don't have it and can't find one. Clemson has reason to be concerned about tv contracts and remaining financial competitive, but we are nowhere near being in the hole some people are portraying.
Message was edited by: viztiz®
Message was edited by: viztiz®
|
|
|
|
 |
110%er [7971]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3543
Joined: 10/18/09
|
TU to you and your fancy numbers!
Jun 27, 2012, 4:00 PM
|
|
Nice work, sounds much better than what we had been hearing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [94230]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95519
Joined: 12/25/09
|
I really wish I could come up with a post like that...
Jun 27, 2012, 4:01 PM
|
|
you know, one that pizzes everyone off. It disproves the radical difference between the Clemson/USuCk and simultaneously reveals a 6 mil/yr difference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aficionado [150]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 154
Joined: 9/7/09
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 27, 2012, 4:08 PM
|
|
|
|
Here is the information that Plyler is getting his numbers from, I think. This is from USA Today.
Breakdown of revenues vs. expenses. $6 mil is hardly the difference.
SC had $10 mil more in contributions alone. $10 mil more in rights/licensing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7971]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3543
Joined: 10/18/09
|
Like the logo for SC.***
Jun 27, 2012, 4:10 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aficionado [150]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 154
Joined: 9/7/09
|
Re: Like the logo for SC.***
Jun 27, 2012, 4:12 PM
|
|
I posted this a few months ago and coots got their panties in a wad about it. Apparently USA Today finds them not relevant enough to get their logo right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4947]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6982
Joined: 10/12/06
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 27, 2012, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: USC vs Clemson money ] |
|
That is the same numbers he just gave you and stated that Clemson's revenue lacked IPTAY donations while SCar counted Gamecock club.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aficionado [150]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 154
Joined: 9/7/09
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 27, 2012, 4:15 PM
|
|
What goes into the category labeled contributions? Not being sarcastic.. I just find it hard that we're coming up with $14 million in contributions as well as what IPTAY says.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4947]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6982
Joined: 10/12/06
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 27, 2012, 4:19 PM
|
|
You can contribute to the AD without giving a contribution to IPTAY. Many times former players will give contributions other than IPTAY donations that specifically go to scholarships or specific team related funds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aficionado [150]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 154
Joined: 9/7/09
|
$14 mil in non-IPTAY donations seems a bit high, no?
Jun 27, 2012, 4:29 PM
|
|
If IPTAY only generates $20 mil, it just seems unlikely that we would have another 75% of that donated without going through IPTAY with as big of a presence they have with the AD.
Maybe I'm just naive and don't understand how it all works.
Either way..I'll just keep giving my pennies to IPTAY and they can count them wherever they like.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16945]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10796
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: $14 mil in non-IPTAY donations seems a bit high, no?
Jun 27, 2012, 4:43 PM
|
|
Well, it would be double the $7.03 mill that USC claims as donations, but I really have no way to know what comprises that number. $2.5 for football doesn't seem high. $.8 for basketball seems low. The $3.5 mill for other sports seems high but we have no idea how they amortize large gifts. How much was given for the indoor practice facility, new golf facility, etc. I know that boosters often give large sums to help finance construction and there are a number of ways this can be handled on a balance sheet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16945]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10796
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 27, 2012, 4:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: USC vs Clemson money ] |
|
It's pretty easy to see that Carolina is lumping Gamecock club in and Clemson is not counting Iptay. The 2010 number on your link for Clemson matches the Shakin the Southland number exactly - and doesnt include Iptay. We know from the Gamecock Central article that USC does include Gamecock Club numbers in their athletic budget because those figures come directly from a USC athletic department press release. The $24 million they claim in contributions your link corresponds awfully closely to the combination of YES fees, gifts, and gamecock club dues on their own budget breakdown.
Between Iptay and the CUAD Clemson spent over $71 million in 2010 and netted a profit for the year. This chart would have us at a tremendous loss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [887]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1245
Joined: 2/3/04
|
We're all doomed, I just know it!!! Thanks, these money
Jun 27, 2012, 4:13 PM
|
|
freaks are killing me!
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [14921]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12314
Joined: 3/28/06
|
"We won't be silenced by your facts and logic"!!***
Jun 27, 2012, 4:19 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [23115]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 19817
Joined: 1/15/11
|
facts and logic-
Jun 27, 2012, 4:29 PM
|
|
have nothing to do with the conference envy people.
Without hard facts, I'm more apt to put my trust in the BOT. They have all the facts, all the real numbers, not false facts and pie in sky predictions scattered around the internet of what could be earned elsewhere.
It's their job to look out for Clemson's best interest, hope they are doing their job.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [14921]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12314
Joined: 3/28/06
|
There are also the conspiracy theorists though who seem to
Jun 27, 2012, 4:31 PM
|
|
think that Barker and the BOT are inexplicably out to screw over all Clemson athletics so you can't use this argument either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2118]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 1940
Joined: 1/7/00
|
...but but but...the Dude SAYS SO...
Jun 27, 2012, 4:32 PM
|
|
It must be 20 million!!! 
Look, I don't know what the difference truly is between SC & Clemson. All I know is that until 2009, Clemson was spanking SC just about every year. You guys won't be second-fiddle to them forever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15751]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17374
Joined: 2/1/99
|
Wait...Mickey didn't link to a source and just threw
Jun 27, 2012, 4:38 PM
|
|
numbers around wildly? That's crazy talk.
Thanks for trying to be reasonable. Hopefully you'll have more luck than me!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83164]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80177
Joined: 11/29/99
|
MP is the ultimate embarrassing fan with a chip on
Jun 28, 2012, 6:23 PM
|
|
shoulder about ACC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [81994]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47128
Joined: 3/18/07
|
Seriously, using facts and logic don't work here on TNET.***
Jun 27, 2012, 4:47 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [761]
TigerPulse: 87%
Posts: 314
Joined: 9/14/10
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 27, 2012, 5:40 PM
|
|
Just skip read the piece. Is the closeness of the total because of donations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16945]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10796
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 27, 2012, 10:00 PM
|
|
The fact is that Clemson and South Carolina have incredibly similar financial circumstances. Every year the difference in ticket sales comes down to who hosts the Clemson / Carolina football game - worth in excess of $4 million in revenue. Interesting to note that football tickets alone are essentially 80% of gross ticket sales, basketball about 15%, and all other sports including baseball (even at Carolina) are only about 5%. Clemson basically invented modern collegiate bolstering with Iptay but the YES program has helped Carolina catch up in that category. Clemson and Carolina are perennially in top 25 of college licensing. Carolina was ahead in 2010 and 2011, but they did win two national championships and sold a boat load of t-shirts.
So, any real difference would have to come from conference payouts which we know for 2012 are $20 million for the SEC and around $16 for the ACC. Not the doomsday scenario being painted. And all the speculation about how much the SEC will get when they renegotiate is just that - speculation. ESPN isn't going to give away anything they don't have to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Junkie [590]
TigerPulse: 34%
Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/4/09
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 27, 2012, 10:58 PM
|
|
You have to believe with the addition of their new SEC,B12 bowl game and the addition of Mizz.& Tx AM that they will stand to increase their current take by at least 4 to 5 mil.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1574]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 524
Joined: 3/1/11
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 28, 2012, 2:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: USC vs Clemson money ] |
|
It's amazing how "spun up" people get over these silly internet posts based on emotional speculation. Even if South Carolina had considerably more income than we do, and I doubt that they do, get in your car, ride to Columbia and take a look around. There is no comparison between what awaits incoming freshmen at Clemson. Their "campus" is in the middle of downtown Columbia; there's no parking and their football stadium is 3 miles away in the ghetto. Granted, they have a great baseball facility so give credit where credit is due. They also get to play basketball in a huge arena but it's rarely filled. However, the fans are so far from the court you might as well watch it on TV. But football is what most seem to be interested in and the difference is clear. Even if they spent an extra $20 million per year they'll never catch up. They simply cannot replicate Death Valley and the West Zone. Our new indoor practice facility will be ready soon and we're going to continue to improve. The folks leading Clemson University have done a pretty good job over the past 150 years. They've brought us to this place and haven't lost their minds. The sky simply is not falling! Granted, we've been a mediocre team in a mediocre conference for the past 20 years and nobody likes that. But times they are a'changin. It's all about "talent," and in case you haven't noticed,ours has increased dramatically in the past 4 years. Keep the faith. The Tigers are coming back with a vengeance, and it won't be long. Go Tigers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19726]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17294
Joined: 8/18/05
|
I wonder how many have RA'd this post
Jun 27, 2012, 11:22 PM
|
|
because it does not fit their agenda
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11435]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 14500
Joined: 1/2/11
|
POTY***
Jun 27, 2012, 11:23 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
read up until "Plyler's Blog"
Jun 28, 2012, 10:38 AM
|
|
hth
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1073]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 650
Joined: 10/17/08
|
Thanks! OK Plyler, what's your response?
Jun 28, 2012, 4:24 PM
|
|
i
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [14090]
TigerPulse: 78%
Posts: 25448
Joined: 7/28/05
|
one thing to consider scu doesn't bring in anywhere close...
Jun 28, 2012, 6:34 PM
|
|
to the money we bring in from IPTAY, as they do from their weak shamecock club. The facilities upgrades have largely been made off of donations from IPTAY members.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mascot [24]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 78
Joined: 4/21/09
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 28, 2012, 8:31 PM
|
|
Use the dept of education 36 different expenditure are detailedAlso USA today has the info
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16945]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10796
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 28, 2012, 8:36 PM
|
|
The reporting to the US Department of Education are non-mandatory and are not standardized.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mascot [24]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 78
Joined: 4/21/09
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 28, 2012, 8:35 PM
|
|
Also baseball last year was117,360 for USC ours was 52897 so the expenditures are much different. Football was 68000 more.shain of the state newspaper was the source for baseball
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16945]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10796
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 28, 2012, 8:41 PM
|
|
Not entirely sure what you are referencing here, but of course they are spending more on baseball. They're still paying off they're new stadium and have had to pay for a trip to the CWS the last two years that Clemson hasn't. But 117,360 wouldn't even cover an assistant coaches salary so I have no idea what that number is supposed to mean.
Comparing net revenues is completely futile. You would have to be a forensic accountant with full subpoena power to make heads or tails of how these schools, departments, and booster organizations are spending their money.
|
|
|
|
|
|
null [null]
TigerPulse: 5%
Posts: 4
Joined: 8/3/99
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jun 28, 2012, 9:06 PM
|
|
SC athletic dept pays out of state tuition on their athletes, Clemson does not. Per AD this amounts to 2 1/2 mil. Also, school gives 3.4 mil to athletic budget. This tends to offset the TV money they get from the SEC. See State audit on internet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [55558]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58495
Joined: 7/18/07
|
Re: USC vs Clemson money
Jul 1, 2012, 4:19 PM
|
|
Not linked but, the coots were having a big discussion on their coot radio about how much more money they made over us. They are also saying that is the reason they are going to stay ahead of us in ALL sports. In the long run the money will be a big advantage that will make it near impossible for us to over come.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 34
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
