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Hall of Famer [21618]
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There are two main types of Clemson fans
Oct 7, 2009, 6:50 PM
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Consumer/NFL type Fans... who feel they are owed something by Clemson football and are only happy when things go well.
And fans who just love Clemson and buy into the Clemson spirit...who support Clemson no matter what, and want like hell for things to go well but they don't feel they are owed anything. They focus more on doing their part as a fan/supporter.
Neither hates losing more, neither loves winning more, but one emphasizes being a part of something bigger while the other emphasizes expecting a return on their investment.
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Legend [18722]
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I agree with your observation.***
Oct 7, 2009, 6:51 PM
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Fan [56]
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Re: There are two main types of Clemson fans
Oct 7, 2009, 6:56 PM
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What about the type who thing the penalty of losing a game they should have won should be death? I read a post from someone who said they wanted Dabo to go down in a plan Crash like Marshall University. Come on really? Losing to Maryland should result in a window and fatherless kids..Really??
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CU Medallion [50635]
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are you serious about this
Oct 7, 2009, 7:02 PM
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wanted Dabo to go down in a plane Crash like Marshall University
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CU Guru [1918]
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: You should not even repeat such a repulsive post!!***
Oct 7, 2009, 7:10 PM
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even if someone had been drinking, there's no excuse for that...
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CU Guru [1918]
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NO excuse...***
Oct 7, 2009, 7:11 PM
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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And now, with thecompletely worthless coot commentary.....
Oct 7, 2009, 7:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: There are two main types of Clemson fans ] |
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you want to see some stupid, ugly, vile, profane posts??....toddle over to the fgf and just scroll back through history. In point of fact, just toddle off.
And for pete's sake, try spell check occasionally
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Fan [66]
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All-In [30593]
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You couldn't be more wrong...
Oct 7, 2009, 7:00 PM
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I am a Clemson fan and do not feel that Clemson owes me anything. My happiness is in no way tied to Clemson or a football team.
That does not change the fact that our program has some problems. It does not change the fact that TDP made a questionable hire. It does not change the fact that, unless something is done, either at the top or on the staff, it will not get any better.
Clemson owes me nothing where they fix the problems or not.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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You never disagreed with anything I actually said.
Oct 7, 2009, 7:12 PM
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Obviously there are problems. I never said fans in category two didn't complain or have some sort of expectations.
However, you, or anyone else, can't say it won't get better. You simply have no idea.
I did say, there are those fans who feel they are owed something. Fans who won't go to games to make a statement. Fans who stop following the team when we lose. Fans who are only really happy being a Clemson person when we win. Fans who care more about how football makes them feel than what is good for the program. They are everywhere and none of them can admit it. Both types of fans can't want coaches fired, but the fan who doesn't feel they are owed anything are usually more realistic, less emotional, and more patient with their suggestions.
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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I know of no alums who fit the "owed" category, but I know
Oct 7, 2009, 9:28 PM
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a ton of alums who are pi$$ed at the direction of the football team, and upset with TDP for not hiring an experienced coach.
Your description is a gross generalization based on your "assumption" of the fanbase makeup of Clemson.
I will love Clemson if we never won another sporting event, but my love for the University makes me want to see them succeed in everything, and not waste time and huge sums of money in a direction that has been a head scratcher to many in this state, and virtually everybody outside of S.C. The gamble taken by TDP is unparalled at a school in the big six conferences over the last 20 years.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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I know some. They exist. Certainly on here as well.
Oct 8, 2009, 12:14 AM
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It's not a baseless assumption. It's a deduction from the rhetoric I see on here and hear from others around Clemson.
If you don't support Clemson because they are losing you are effectively not a part of the solution. It's a completely overrated strategy to pull money out of the Athletic dept. It always boils down to the power boosters. Minor/semi minor iptay donations do make up a huge chunk of the AD's income, but thankfully there will never be a big enough chunk of quitters that will make that strategy actually worth-while.
Now huge, rich boosters are another story all together.
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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The % of folks who "pull out" of IPTAY due to our
Oct 8, 2009, 12:29 AM
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record is so small it is not worth discussing. Those that do, are likely casual fans, not alums or long time donors. Long time folks that have left have done so because of the cost to qualify and buy tickets for a good seat today, not our yearly records.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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I agree it's small but I would agrue it's worth discussing..
Oct 8, 2009, 1:52 AM
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simply because the nature of some of the posts on this board. It's not like I am going after the Clemson fan base as a whole. I happen to think Clemson fans are some of the best anywhere. The purpose of this thread is to challenge those who have repeatedly threatened to abandon the season and leave their seats empty this season in hopes of affecting a coaching change.
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Orange Blooded [2826]
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Three main types...
Oct 7, 2009, 7:08 PM
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1. Those that consider themselves to be part of the family...they realize a family member can do bad things but they still return "home" as it is a part of them.
2. Those that are acquaintances ...they show up for the good times.
3. Those who pose as Clemson fans on message boards...got no use for these folks.
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Associate AD [838]
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Do you really think there are that many people like #3?
Oct 7, 2009, 7:40 PM
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I may be naive, but that just seems like a really big waste of time.
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Orange Blooded [3855]
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Re: Iptay Member Since 1975
Oct 7, 2009, 8:05 PM
[ in reply to Three main types... ] |
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I guess that speaks for itself!
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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There are a lot more types than that. The most important
Oct 7, 2009, 9:37 PM
[ in reply to Three main types... ] |
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thing I got from Clemson is my Bachelors of Science degree in Civil Engineering. While studying for that degree I fell in love with the University, and as part of that, its sports teams, all of them. I played football in high school, so it has always been my favorite sport.
It is insulting and silly for anyone to claim to have a "read", or "understand" what type of fan makeup we have. It is as varied as the differences of each individual. I know non alums who love Clesmon as much as alums. The non alums usually first became involved in sports, whereas many alums, myself included, never "pulled" for Clemson until my freshman year in the fall of 1977.
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CU Guru [1918]
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I love Clemson no matter what.***
Oct 7, 2009, 7:10 PM
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Head Coach [759]
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So you're saying our administration doesn't want to win?***
Oct 7, 2009, 7:10 PM
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: There are two main types of Clemson fans
Oct 7, 2009, 7:12 PM
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I think we all want Clemson to be successful, (and are equally frustrated) but have different ideas of what we think the problems/solutions are...
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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problems and solutions are outside the scope of my post.
Oct 7, 2009, 7:14 PM
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I am only talking about those, regardless of their recommendations or frustrations, who either love Clemson despite frustrations or only want to participate when things go as they feel they are owed.
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: problems and solutions are outside the scope of my post.
Oct 7, 2009, 7:17 PM
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if it makes it any better, that is not a problem exclusively belonging to Clemson...
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Letterman [283]
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#4
Oct 7, 2009, 7:24 PM
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Fan #4 - Those that judge everyone else and pat themselves on the back for it. (even if it's on a free message board).
I'm not saying I totally disagree with your assessment (I got my degree for "my" investment) but doesn't each one of the fans you describe expect "some" degree of return on their investment. Now whether growth occurs is another thing. Somewhat dependent upon a good Portfolio Manager (a.k.a. Head Coach, OC, DC, AD, etc.)
But isn't the reason why they invest, is to create more wealth (whatever it might be)? And what type of "Investment" are you referring to? IPTAY, Time, passion, support? I don't think anyone who actually invests money hopes that they're investment goes down in value. Do you?
I don't think that anyone who gives their time and money wants to be a laughing stock of the nation.
So don't play down anyone's commitment and spirit. Everyone is not the same and has different perspectives. Probably even one's you're not aware of. It's easy to throw stones.
Yea no one should have a death wish but an opinion is an opinion.
I don't think they owe me anything but I sure as heck wanna WIN.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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You are missing my point. I will rephrase.
Oct 7, 2009, 7:42 PM
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I am saying fan A emphasizes his desire to be a part of something big. That means, he or she starts with loving Clemson games, having institutional pride, loving our traditions, and being emotionally involved with the team. These fans can complain, want coaches fired, want AD's fired, and any other number of things.
Then fan B will emphasize his expectations of the program. Remember, fan A has them too, but how much they (fan A) love games, or support Clemson, or care about the season does not change based on expectations met. Fan B however, distances themselves, ignores games, pulls their money etc...
Is is reasonable for fans to expect a return on their investment? Yes. And that is the location of the fork in the road for those to become fan A or fan B. If expectations are not met, both are upset, mad, outraged, want a coaching change, whatever... BUT fan A still goes to games and wants us to win every game and cares just as much because their love for Clemson can't be damaged by losing, while fan B quits on a season until he is satisfied and returns when things are happier for him/her.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Please never, ever mistake the posters on this website as a
Oct 7, 2009, 7:27 PM
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truly representative cross-section of Clemson fans. I saw an old man today here in Columbia who was driving a twenty-something year-old Cadillac with his Tiger paws flying from the windows. I be he ain't ever come on this website and taken a dump like a lot of these guys.
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Legend [18722]
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awesome !***
Oct 7, 2009, 7:29 PM
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CU Guru [1918]
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I saw a car yesterday with a Clemson flag flying and***
Oct 7, 2009, 8:02 PM
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CU Guru [1918]
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my thought was "Now that's a fan. Win or lose,"***
Oct 7, 2009, 8:03 PM
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Head Coach [759]
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Excellent post, I agree that we should cut coach salaries.
Oct 7, 2009, 7:35 PM
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We need to stop investing so much money in coaches if we aren't expecting a result from them. We have enough passionate fans that would fill the coaching spots for free.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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Again, both expect results... one just stays with the season
Oct 7, 2009, 7:44 PM
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regardless. Even when I wanted Bowden fired, I wanted like hell for Clemson to win and was just as excited to support the team. Clemson is bigger than coaches and I will never give up on a team, even if I am wildly frustrated by them.
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CU Guru [1918]
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Agree 100%***
Oct 7, 2009, 8:05 PM
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Head Coach [759]
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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No I don't want to fire Dabo, but if you think that
Oct 8, 2009, 12:09 AM
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automatically makes someone a sunshine pumper then you are being very narrow minded about the whole situation.
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CU Medallion [55491]
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Re: Only time i ever watch the NFL is on Super Bowl day. I
Oct 7, 2009, 8:22 PM
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have'nt missed a Clemson football game in well over 20 years.
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All-In [26552]
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Are the "Clemson spirit" fans the ones that cry about
Oct 7, 2009, 9:27 PM
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having to pay over face value for tickets?
I think they're one in the same. lol.
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CU Guru [1221]
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If the "consumer" fan didn't exist, Clemson football would
Oct 7, 2009, 11:18 PM
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not be where it is today......large stadium, big time recruiting, etc.
The goal is to win. Who wants to pour money into a program that doesn't win? Who wants to play for a program that doesn't offer great facilities and a chance to play for championships?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with expecting a return on your investment. Big time donors (consumer fans) made Death Valley possible. Big time donors made the West End Zone possible.
The day the big time donors are told Clemson is not about winning (rather its about being a part of something "bigger") is the day we need to join the Southern Conference and demo the West End Zone and the Upper Decks.
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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I can't disagree with that at all. But most of us don't
Oct 8, 2009, 12:18 AM
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fit into that category. It's a few at the top that make the real difference in terms of financial support.
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Standout [312]
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There are lots of bandwagon fans for both Clemson and
Oct 8, 2009, 7:49 AM
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USC-east. Now that the Gamecocks are off to a promising start (as they are every year before the wheels fall off), I can't go anywhere in the greater Charleston area without seeing car stickers, car flags, house flags, t-shirts, etc... And interestingly, the Clemson merchandise seems to be disappearing.
Now, interestingly, at the start of the 2008 season (AP #9 prior to the Bama Beatdown), the area was flooded w/ Clemson stickers, flags, etc. It was all over the place. There was probably more Clemson stuff than USC-east stuff, despite the fact we are 4 hours from campus. Then, midway through the season, it suddenly disappeared. Coincidence? I think a lot of "fans" are really just followers of whichever team is doing better, and really have no commitment.
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