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All-In [38514]
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Why Bowden deserves a few more years?
Nov 28, 2006, 2:09 PM
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Ford inherited a team that went 11-1.
His first 8 seasons:
8-4
6-5
12-0
9-1-1
9-1-1
7-4
6-6
8-2-2
Bowden inherited a team that went 3-8.
His first 8 seasons:
6-6
9-3
7-5
7-6
9-4
6-5
8-4
8-4
Danny went a total of 65-23-4
Bowden record is 60-37
The win total is pretty close, especially considering where both started. And yes Bowden has 14 more losses and a few OT games in each column instead of ties.
But Ford won 7, 6, and 8 games in seasons 6-8.
Ford went 10-2 in each of seasons 9-11.
In addition Hatfield went 10-2 and 9-2-1 in his first two years with Ford's players.
It is not unrealistic to believe that Bowden will get it done over the next few seasons. Especially considering what this staff is doing in regards to recruiting.
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Commissioner [982]
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Great post. Point for you.******
Nov 28, 2006, 2:10 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Ford had a NC, and ACC titles......Bowden did win the Smurf
Nov 28, 2006, 2:12 PM
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BOwl!!!!!
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Legend [16071]
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But he lost the Independance Bowl (AKA Toilet Bowl)***
Nov 28, 2006, 2:13 PM
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Orange Blooded [2328]
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To a Minnesota team QB'd by Ricky Fogey (sp?) - a stud
Nov 28, 2006, 2:29 PM
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QB from SC that we couldn't recruit and land . . .
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null [84]
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Remember the attempted throw-back to Rodney Williams ? was
Nov 28, 2006, 2:42 PM
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that a try for a TD on 4th down ? (Or 2-pt conv.?)
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All-In [38514]
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I'm not saying he didn't...
Nov 28, 2006, 2:17 PM
[ in reply to Ford had a NC, and ACC titles......Bowden did win the Smurf ] |
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He also did not have FSU in the ACC, and did not see the addition of Miami, VT, and BC. He only had GT for part of his tenure.
Bowden has also not had probation either.
Look I was in HS at Daniel in the early 80's and at Clemson in the late 80's. Nobody has to tell me anything about Danny Ford.
I also remember a vocal minority that was also constantly criticising him for poor play calling and losing to inferior opponents.
The current criticism of Bowden is no different than the criticism of Ford in the 80's.
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All-TigerNet [13105]
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Agreed tdrake,...
Nov 28, 2006, 2:22 PM
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Had the internet been around in those days, it would not have been pretty.
Many folks talked bad about Ford, it just wasn't put on some server for thousands of people to read, disect, and respond to.
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Virtuoso [609]
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null [2145]
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Ford had a resume builder, a national championship,
Nov 28, 2006, 2:12 PM
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in his back pocket.
You can't compare the leashes given to coaches fairly with that considered. Ford proved his coaching upside was limitless, Bowden hasn't (and no, I don't consider his Tulane undefeated season to have any influence).
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Commissioner [982]
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And despite his National Championship. . .. .
Nov 28, 2006, 2:16 PM
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. .in Ford's 6th, 7th, and 8th year, he coached in a total of 35 games and won 21 of them.
In Bowden's 6th, 7th, and 8th year, he coached in a total of 35 games and won 22 of them.
So, comparing Ford and Bowdens 6th, 7th, and 8th year. .. Bowden has won more games.
Interesing (and that's with a tougher conference too).
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null [330]
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There is no such thing as a national champion in 1A ball.
Nov 28, 2006, 2:27 PM
[ in reply to Ford had a resume builder, a national championship, ] |
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Ford basically won a beauty contest. Weren't we #4 when we went to the Orange Bowl that year? Under today's guidelines, we wouldn't have made it to a "championship" game. And anybody arguing that Ford and Bowden have equivalent positions, considering that Ford coached in an era where he had virtually twice the practice time as Bowden, and where he could stockpile scholarship players, is out of his or her mind. I remember many MANY Ford-era games where we didn't beat the opposition so much as wear them out in the fourth quarter.
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null [2145]
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So, it was easier to win a mythical NC then? And yes, they
Nov 28, 2006, 2:31 PM
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are still mythical.
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All-In [38514]
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No we were ranked #1 going into the Orange Bowl.
Nov 28, 2006, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to There is no such thing as a national champion in 1A ball. ] |
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We finished our season #2 and jumped to #1 when Penn State upset #1 Pittsburgh (or vice versa).
Nebraska was ranked #4 coming in.
The current national championship format is really not any different.
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CU Guru [1923]
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Re: There is no such thing as a national champion in 1A ball.
Nov 28, 2006, 2:42 PM
[ in reply to There is no such thing as a national champion in 1A ball. ] |
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I;'m sure you are much younger than I and have a better memory, but I think we were #1 prior to the Orange Bowl.
Also when comparing the first 8 years remember 1982-1985
were Charlie Pell probation years.
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null [84]
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Agree. Point.***
Nov 28, 2006, 2:13 PM
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Addict [438]
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Very good points***
Nov 28, 2006, 2:14 PM
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Virtuoso [609]
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Firing coaches every 4 years put you in a deeper hole.
Nov 28, 2006, 2:15 PM
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TB will be the winningest coach at Clemson (minus FH - who has 30 years in and can not be compared to) before he leaves.
He would already be at some schools... SC for example.
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null [2145]
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How about every 8 years then?***
Nov 28, 2006, 2:17 PM
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110%er [7913]
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good post tdrake***
Nov 28, 2006, 2:17 PM
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null [188]
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Honest assessment:
Nov 28, 2006, 2:17 PM
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I think people do have a problem with the wins/losses under Bowden. BUT, there is something deeper that motivates "Bowden bashing". I honestly think its Bowdens communication skills and personality. He simply is not a good public speaker/communicator and doesnt motivate the fan base in ways that many other coaches do. I really think that if Bowden had the demeanor that many Clemson fans seem to want, the seat wouldn't be so warm.
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null [84]
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Golfman, I actually think he comes across as intelligent and
Nov 28, 2006, 2:25 PM
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has very witty responses to the media questions. I've enjoyed his speeches at IPTAY meetings.
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null [330]
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I've never understood this. I've listened to Bowden
Nov 28, 2006, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to Honest assessment: ] |
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speak on any number of radio shows and press conferences. He sounds like an intelligent guy who knows football backwards and forwards. I've never heard him be patronizing. He once answered a fan's question about why the defense hadn't done something on a specific play in a game, and the answer he gave--which I can't remember--impressed the heck out of me at the time. It was obvious that Bowden understands the mechanics of what is going on, on the football field. My experience as I hit middle-age is that people get called arrogant for any number of reasons, and one of them, unfortunately, is that there are lots and lots of stupid, incompetent people in the world who use the term when they are outclassed.
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null [84]
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Exactly. Wish others could see that. Point for you.***
Nov 28, 2006, 2:37 PM
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Zealot [793]
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I hate the Drake...
Nov 28, 2006, 2:17 PM
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 Point for you.
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All-In [38514]
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I've never seen that episode...
Nov 28, 2006, 2:20 PM
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I'm not a huge Seinfeld fan. I did (and still do) watch it, but have just never caught that episode.
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Zealot [793]
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LOL, saw it last week.***
Nov 28, 2006, 2:22 PM
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1st Rounder [640]
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i love the drake! (how's that tv?)***
Nov 28, 2006, 2:18 PM
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Legend [16071]
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Agree..Bowden is building without cheating...
Nov 28, 2006, 2:19 PM
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And you have to give him some credit for that. Understandably it is going to take more time.
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null [75]
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Re: Agree..Bowden is building without cheating...
Nov 28, 2006, 2:29 PM
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PLEASE LOOK AT THE INCREASE IN THE LEVELS OF RECRUITING CLASSES SINCE DAY 1!
Tommy Bowden is the best thing that has happened to Clemson since the 1981 national championship.
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All-Conference [436]
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Great points...
Nov 28, 2006, 2:34 PM
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At the start of the season, I was thinking 9-3 or 10-2, but if I had known then about our season ending injuries, I would have predicted much worse than 8-4.
Tommy kept us in every game, with the exception of the VT game. Even the VT loss was respectable considering the condition of our team after the GT victory.
I'm pleased with Tommy and will support him; he has done nothing but improve our program and the facilities. In addition, he runs a clean program. I was at Clemson through all the miserable years with Hatfield and West. We are leaps and bounds ahead of the damage those two coaches did to our program. We are recruiting top-notch prospects; this never happened under Hatfield or West. The atmosphere in DV is electric, much like it was in the 80s; the 90s were the dark ages in DV. Our future is very bright, and Tommy will take us there. It just takes time; changing horses now will only hurt us. We turned the corner with the last two recruiting classes. This next class is going to put us back on the map.
GO TIGERS!!!!!
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Rock Defender [54]
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What a joke***
Nov 28, 2006, 2:40 PM
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Rooter [207]
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Re: Why Bowden deserves a few more years?
Nov 28, 2006, 2:49 PM
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Thats Bowden logic, its a point not a great one. Who were the wins? Rodriguez was there the first two. What were our losses? Yes we have talent, and talent alone plays the big games they are up on it especially as underdogs. Speaking of cheating how about the two Expeditions we had driving down in Miami, that were working on TBs landscaping crew. If he cant get it done in eight years what is the limit? How much of your life are you willing to let someone be mediocre when the conference is getting better by coaching standards and winning. Look at MD and Wake, Wake is the ACCC, and MD was close. We are not moving ahead, we peaked with him. He has changed this program three times.
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All-In [38514]
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It's a valid point...
Nov 28, 2006, 3:14 PM
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Does it prove anything one way or the other? No.
But it does dispute some of what is being offered up against Bowden.
Ultimately it say that (outside of 1981), Ford's best years were years 9-11. I'd like to see what Bowden can do, espicially given his current recruiting.
It also shows that Bowden's been better in years 6-8 then Ford was.
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Orange Blooded [2400]
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Re: Why Bowden deserves a few more years?
Nov 28, 2006, 2:51 PM
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Good points.
Now there are lies, d!@# lies and statistics. But I happen to agree with the conclusion drawn from those numbers.
I was at Clemson in 1985 - 1992 ( two degrees, not too many parties ) and my family had season tickets long before that, so I also have memories of Ford. I remember the moaning about play calling, the expletives on the field caught by the parabolic microphone, the homecoming loss to Ga Tech - their 1st win over a I-A team in 2 yrs, the loss and tie to BC, the national championship, being in the top 10 for 4 years or so, at least one loss to Duke, our probation and our ( undeserved ) outlaw reputation.
The point is, there were good times and bad times. Sometimes we look at the past fondly and remember it for something better than it was.
The landscape was different then. We had more scholarships to give than most of our opponents and the ACC was much weaker ( think of recruiting ). College football athletic departments are also much more transparent now - everyone has eyes, ears and a large megaphone we call the internet. To some degree, the eras are apples and oranges, but the results are not so drastically different.
I too am frustrated that Maryland appears to have leap frogged us and GaTech seems to be our equal. I too believe that we belong in the top 10 and should beat all of the old-time ACC teams every year and at least go 50/50 with FSU, Miami and VaTech. But I also think Bowden is doing things the right way, running a clean program with good kids, and that we will get there.
I wouldn't want to jump at the golden boy of the day every year, because tomorrow he usually proves to be a goat.
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Rooter [207]
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Re: Why Bowden deserves a few more years?
Nov 28, 2006, 3:00 PM
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No doubt, and I myself have been going to games since 1975 and was at CU from 87-91. I know the landscape has changed but I am not willing to throw the red carpet out any longer for someone who in seven years, supposedly knowing us fans, still consider us secondary to tradition behind Ala. and Auburn. He has not done anything to make me believe he wants to be here, or stand up a put a rest to all of this. He told ESPN he would retire before his Dad, I believe him once his contract is up here, I believe in two years he want be here. He has made TDP look like a fool. If his last name wasnt Bowden would you still keep him?
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