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Legend [16186]
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Virginia 2004.
Jun 27, 2004, 11:53 AM
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I watched the 2003 Virginia game last night. It looks to me like Virginia will be a tough team to beat in Charlottesville this fall, even without Shaub. The thing that jumps off the tape about Virginia to me is the size and physical abilities of pretty much the entire Wahoo squad. Groh has recruited well at Virginia throughout his tenure and the results show on the field.
The Wahoos have huge, physical linebackers who I think will play the position in the NFL. The DBs are big and quick. The Virginia DL is full of large athletic bodies. Last year we had the ball inside the 10 yard line 3 separate times and got only 3 points out of those trips. Virginia plays a solid scheme and they have good athletes on defense. MOST IMPORTANTLY, the athletes at Virginia do not quit. I think they are a proud bunch who generally get inspired by our mutual history to give Clemson a great game. I think we’ll have our hands FULL trying to put points on the board in Charlotttesville against the Wahoos. Last year, Derrick Hamilton tortured Virginia with a sensational opening drive run, several super catches and generally occupied the Wahoo defense downfield. Derrick will not be there this year. Youngblood won the game last year with a super big man catch in the endzone in OVERTIME. Youngblood will not be there this year.
On offense, Virginia returns 9 players. They will have excellent receivers, a big strong, athletic and highly rated offensive line and terrific skilled players to run the ball. It will NOT be easy for Virginia to replace Shaub. Shaub nearly killed CU last year in the 3rd quarter when he was 10 of 12 on one drive. He had two sensational long passes in which the open Virginia receiver broke in the wrong direction. Still, I’d expect Virginia to be a bit like Maryland and GT under Friedgen and reload the offense with a very credible QB. Like Clemson in 1989, most folks forecast a big drop off in the QB position at Virginia. I suspect they’ll be solid.
Virginia had excellent special teams play in our game last year. They came very very close to breaking two TD runs off of kickoffs. The speed burning kicker returners will be back.
The very BEST thing about Virginia’s team is that they don’t give up. They make excellent half time adjustmentsand they continue to play hard. The Wahoos have come from behind to win a LOT under Groh and I think that’s often the mark of an excellent team that believes in themselves.
Clemson can win at Virginia in the fall. I think it’ll take a great effort on the part of our team and that we will have to play better than we played in 2003 at home to beat the Wahoos on the road. The game is on Thursday night and I would expect a HUGE crowd of rabid Virginia fans for the game against our Tigers.
Since the Wahoos broke through into the win column against us, Virginia is 7-6-1 against Clemson. I’d REALLY REALLY love to get back even with Virginia over the last 15 years. Then I’d like to put them in their place in Death Valley in 2005. It’ll take a super effort by the Tiger football team to win in Charlottesville. I hope they are up to it.
Harley
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Connoisseur [383]
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Agree. Many on this board seem to be underestimating UVA
Jun 27, 2004, 11:59 AM
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At UVA will be our third toughest game.
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Aficionado [152]
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Most of the same can be said about the Tigers. We get the W.***
Jun 27, 2004, 12:32 PM
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Addict [317]
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This will be our watermark game for the fourth straight year
Jun 27, 2004, 12:38 PM
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I continue to say that Virginia will be the watermark game once again. We beat Virginia in 2001 and 2002 and the seasons are totally different. 7-4, or 8-4 at worse probably would have been our record both seasons and probably a much better bowl game each season. Last year if we lose to UVa, we are 3-4 heading into our UNC game and it's a game for 7th in the conference, we won and went on to an 8-4 regular season.
If we win 3 of our first 4, Virginia will be the game to determine whether or not we have a great season or just a good season, and if we are 2-2, the game could have huge bowl implications.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I look for one of the best ACC games of the season that Thursday night!!!
Go Tigers!!!
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null [889]
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I agree, UVA will be a difficult game
Jun 27, 2004, 1:07 PM
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However, if you think Clemson fans are under-estimating UVA, you should stop by some of their message boards! They've all but put this game in the win column.
I do think Virginia has alot of talent and depth, but I think we do too. I regard the game almost as a toss-up, but I think Clemson will win. As much as I respect UVA, I think their fans and much of the media are overstating how good they'll be this year. Their offense was hardly explosive even with Schaub, and while the defesne has talent on paper, they'll need to transalte that to the field better (6th in ACC last year in yardage, after Duke)
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CU Medallion [50635]
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Re: Virginia 2004.
Jun 27, 2004, 1:34 PM
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qb is the wild card at uva. i know that if a guy is #1 in the spring and fall and gets all the reps he can develope. but man they were awful without schabb(sp).
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null [155]
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you're right, the Coots kicked them pretty hard....***
Jun 27, 2004, 2:44 PM
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All-In [45882]
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Harley, It's a little early to be playing Nervous Nellie?...
Jun 27, 2004, 1:51 PM
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Agreed UVA has some exceptional talent. They also have Groh coaching them (not necessarily a good thing). If their 2nd stringer (who played against USC last year) starts they will be one dimensional on offense. The other guy is talented but inexperienced.
I think ever game is a tough game. Unless we show the same intensity as our last four games.
Besides. Dead down, I know how much you hate Virginia.
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CU Guru [1139]
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Yea, let's hope the uva team that played the coots without
Jun 27, 2004, 1:56 PM
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their qb shows up
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Legend [16186]
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Just calling them as I see them.
Jun 27, 2004, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to Harley, It's a little early to be playing Nervous Nellie?... ] |
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I watched the tape of last year's game and thought about this fall. You are correct.....I hate Virginia.
Over 30+ years I've seen, heard and read a ton from the pompously self righteous wahoo yahoos disparaging Clemson. Just a few years ago, the day Woody took'em down a notch, a drunk 20-something fratboy Virginia fan who'd likely never earned a nickel, trash talked me and 3 other Clemson gentlemen for a mile on the walk back to the car. I still sort of hate it we didn't kick his butt. So, yes, I hate Virginia despite the fact I have friends who attended school there. I'd like to beat them every year for the next 30 or so.
Nervous Nellie is among the most intelligent fans I know. He respects the game and the opponent. He's old school and sees no virtue in trash talk on the part of people outside of the white lines. I'll tell him you think he's out too early this year.
Go Tigers!!
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All-In [45882]
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You always do. And Nellie is topnotch.....
Jun 27, 2004, 3:53 PM
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in my book. I must say I've only had good relations with UVA fans and have a different perception, except for the self righteous part in some of the students. Other than a part of the time Welsh was there we've "owned" them.
Now honestly how could you hate this guy?
http://www.thesabre.com/message_board/football/2004/June/26/1102961.html
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All-TigerNet [14518]
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Some thoughts...
Jun 27, 2004, 2:05 PM
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Groh recruits insanely well.
He works the high school coaches at least here in NC, better than most coaches I've come across. Grobe at Wake is very similar in style.
What Groh sells to the kids and parents is the "NFL connection." He convinces prospects that he, and he alone has the inside track to an NFL career, and at worse the kid will graduate with a degree from UVA which has great connotations.
This is ALL debatable, BUT Groh convinces the recruits otherwise. That's his gift... however his coaching style is not as effective as UVA's record and tenacity might prove. His philosophy is to let the players play the game, BUT if they make mistakes... then they are out. I don't mean sit out a series, he'll waste a red shirt and bench a senior for jumping offsides a few times.
Players at UVA play to keep their jobs. While this may be an effective tactic at a University where talent is 3 and 4 deep, it can come back to haunt one whose cupboards are not fully stocked. Thus we have UVA, and the question is... are their cupboards fully stocked?
If you look at UVA’s record over the past couple of seasons, it is apparent that the talent is there, but when ONE cog of the wahoo machine fouls up, the raw talent cannot compensate.
The strength of this unit is clearly the defense. However keep in mind Fla St, Maryland, and Clemson, all had better defenses last year based on points given up with Ga Tech close by.
What does all this mean? With the departure of Schaub UVA will be a different team. The game against the Gamecocks last year proved that conclusively.
So correctly you size up the battle… our O verses their D.
Or more precisely, it’ll be our Tackles against their DE’s.
Kwakou Robinson at 6’4” 327lbs and Chris Canty at 6’ 7” 290lbs seem to be THE leaders at the DE position for UVA. Strong up field, but limited height and lateral movement could give us a great match up with our TE Ben Hall.
If we can hold off those big guys, and let Ben release quickly off the LOS… it’ll be a fun day in Charlottesville.
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null [2861]
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Re: Some thoughts...
Jun 27, 2004, 3:02 PM
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I wouldn't just say our O against their D.
Walli Lundy is a real threat and also lest we forget Heath Miller? He'll be first-team all-american. He's a beast once he gets the ball and surprisingly mobile once he has it. He could present anthony waters or Leroy Hill with a day's worth of work.
Also, I would never discredit Groh. He's a tremendous coach and a heckuva recruiter. Yea, he got fired from the NYJ.... that'll happen when your front office won't help you out with a colorblind qaurterback and an aging RB. I also think he is a good guy.
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All-TigerNet [14518]
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Well we could cover all the bases by saying
Jun 27, 2004, 4:14 PM
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their O versus our D, their D versus our O, and special teams versus special teams...
But to me, the de facto argument boils down to Our O versus their D. If we can put 30 point on 'em again, we will win. Pure and simple.
It's their strength versus ours.
And I don't think I maligned Groh at all in my post. Discredit him? I basically kissed his rear 
The ONLY derogatory statement made about Groh is that he MIGHT not have the depth of talent to make his style work. And their record under Groh's tenure seems to back me up on this. I certainly think UVA has been a better team than NCST over the past 3 seasons...
But they haven't seemed to warrant the same notoreity. Maybe if Schaub had been married and had a kid.....
I'm curious as to why you think I descredited him... and as far as what type of person he is, well heck fire, I've gona on record as saying Holtz is likeable too.
Doesn't make him a better coach.
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Hall of Famer [20547]
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I'll impugn Groh, myself
Jun 27, 2004, 5:03 PM
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I think he's getting players, uhm, marginally, just speaking personally. He landed the #2 recruiting class in the country after a 5-7 first season, and he's been just a recruitin' machine since then. I can't prove it, haven't the first shred of evidence to that effect...it's just a personal opinion, and I've had that opinion for awhile. There are plenty of dirty programs out there, and when you're looking to see who's who the first place you look are programs that are recruiting disproportionately well to their win totals and program stature. And UVA might be first and foremost among 'em. And Groh ain't a "name" coach...he's a losing D1 coach with about a .400 to .450 record - he got whipped annually at Wake - yet he's getting out-of-state National Top 100 players hand over fist there in Hoo-land?
Okay. But something doesn't smell right in Denmark.
I also think Groh's a pretentious weenie - that comment about "I'm playing chess, they're playing checkers" didn't sit right with me, not when he stole a win from Clemson two years back due largely to stupid turnovers and a comple inability on the Tigers' part to convert 3rd-and-an-inch. And he's reportedly a control freak to the nth degree...he even worries about such mundane details as the proper amount of tire pressure to put on the coaches' golf carts. "As the head coach of this program," intoned Groh, in an interview he granted an SI reporter a coupla years beck, "I feel it appropriate to be involved with every aspect of the University of Virginia football program" (Can you say "micromanagement"?, anyone?)
But his NFL experience!, people bleat. Don't get me started. Groh was out at New York...the Jets owner was shopping Herman Edwards long before Groh had finished packing. He'd completely lost the Jets team by years' end, and whil he finished 9-7 on the year, the caveat to that was, he lucked his way to the weakest, flukiest 6-1 start you ever saw before collapsing to a 3-6 finish. And this was with 12-4 or better talent that he'd inherited from Bill Parcells and Bill Belichek.
I respect Ralph Friedgen. I respect Friedgen's O.C., Charlie Taaffe even more...he controls tempo as well as any coach you'll ever see, and has a knife-fighters instinct for where to put the blade. I respect Georgia Tech D.C. Jon Tenuta for the way he schemes and shuts down teams Tech has no business stopping with the mediocre talent they've had. Bobby Bowden, of course, still demands everybody's respect, and anybody who doesn't think Jim Grobe - who's done twice the job at Wake that Al Groh ever did - hasn't done an amazing job with the Deacs ain't paying attention.
But Groh? He rings false to me, and always has, and has always struck me as an insecure, insincere, overcontrolling, second-rate con artist with a gift for self-promotion and political survival.
Just one guy's opinion. And I think that while nobody can question the talent Groh's landing there at UVA, I do question how he's getting it...and I similarily question how effectively he'll ever use it.
Message was edited by: quozzel®
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Freshman [-59]
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Interesting...why do you give the credit to Taafe?
Jun 27, 2004, 5:11 PM
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for Maryland's offensive tempo? an honest question here as I have seen all kinds of love for Taafe all of a sudden.
Friegden was recognized as a great OC at Georgia Tech and was hired almost entirely on that reputation. Why do you think the he isn't the one pulling the strings on the offense at Maryland?
and
2. UVA must be cheating? Groh can sell his NFL ties and whatever your opinion is of his tenure, recruits will hear that he was a coordinator for Parcells and was an NFL head coach with a winning record. Can't really argue that he doesn't know something about the NFL. He also has a great recruiting base in Virginia, a very good institution to sell (for those recruits interested in that kind of thing UVA undergraduate is a top five university), and reasonable proximity to other recruiting beds like New Jersey, North Carolina, and other places where where they have done well.
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Hall of Famer [20547]
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Re: Interesting...why do you give the credit to Taafe?
Jun 27, 2004, 5:22 PM
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Taaffe does the playcalling...I'm sure Friedgen has a hand in game-planning (Lord knows the Fridge tore it up with Georgia Tech, particularily when he had Joe Hamilton under center). And the offensive scheme is mostly Friedgen's (though you'll see some of the old slick riffs from some of Taaffe's old offenses) and I'm certain, a great deal of the teaching being done is coming from the Fridge as well. But when you're calling a game you gotta mix it up, know what to call when...and Taaffe does that superbly. It just always feels like the Terps are a step ahead of you, when Taaffe's calling the game, and the Tiger D always seem sorta befuddled and reactive at what's coming at them.
As for Groh? Who knows? I just know their stadium seats 60,000 and they rarely filled it in the past, their fan support is much more lukewarm than USC or Clemson's, and they never recruited all that well in the past. They've never been close to winning a national championship...but then Groh gets in there, and they start recruiting like they're Texas, Oklahoma, or Miami...this past year was the lone exception, when they lost out on some key swing recruits at the end. So now this year they rebound with 17 verbal commitments already this year, including 2 National Top 100 guys, including a five-star-rated OT from New Jersey?
Maybe they're doing it totally clean. Sure, maybe. That the way you'd bet?
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Freshman [-59]
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Actually...
Jun 27, 2004, 5:51 PM
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UVA recruited pretty well under Welch and placed a number of those in the NFL. They had a fall off when Tech rose to prominence but that seems to have reversed itself.
I'll grant you Groh has done better than even Welch ever did, but he and his staff do have creds and I would bet he can play the arrogant NFL guy to a tee in living rooms and I bet that goes over well.
I would be surprised to learn the Hoos were cheating. Not shocked, but definitely surprised. Groh doesn't strike me as a cheater.
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null [104]
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Groh wasn't fired by the Jets
Jun 28, 2004, 10:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: Some thoughts... ] |
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In fact, they had a decent year under him and were dissappointed that he left. I believe he was also a finalist for Coach of the Year.
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Freshman [-59]
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I don't think you can compare the USC
Jun 27, 2004, 5:02 PM
[ in reply to Some thoughts... ] |
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game last season where they had to replace Schaub in one week to a situation where they have had all of spring and all of the fall to develop a starter and tailor the offense around his strengths and the strengths of the unit as a whole.
Their QB play will be world's better than what they had against us last season.
That looks like a tough game for y'all to me. Their defense should be good and their OL and RBs are very talented so they ought to be able at worst to play a ball control/defensive game that will keep them in it.
Clemson can win that game for sure, but I don't think it will be easy and I'm not sure you ought to be favored.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Let's not forget, last year was supposed to be their year
Jun 27, 2004, 3:12 PM
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Before the season started some were even picking UVA to be in the national title game. Others were picking them top 10 and ACC winner or co-champ.
UVA get's overrated a lot. Sure it will be a good game, no doubt, but we have much bigger fish to fry. If we can't handle UVA I fear it will be a long season.
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Orange Blooded [2683]
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"rabid Virginia fans"?
Jun 28, 2004, 1:06 PM
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Does such a beast even exist?
I believe UVa will live and die by its "D" this year. I think we're in great shape offensively this season, and can at least break even (if not better) when we've got the ball. I think our D will be able to shut down UVA's offense more effectively than their D will shut down ours.
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