|
Replies: 32
| visibility 1
|
All-In [37023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16328
Joined: 12/15/08
|
I see posts on here about Dabo having to rebuild our program
Jun 23, 2011, 3:04 PM
|
|
I don't believe this is entirely true.
I think the facilities were in place and we did have some talent, but not the level of talent many people think we had.
Dabo had to come in and change things. The recruits we had were here for Spence's Offense and Koennig's Defense.
Spence's receivers could catch a bubble screen and that is about it. He rarely threw the ball downfield. We had relatively small quick linemen which Dabo wanted bigger more physical lineman.
Given Spiller, Ford and Palmer everything else needed replacing. Those 3 could play in any system, they were just that high of caliber players. Hence Dabo's Success in his 1st full year.
Needless to say on Day 1 he Fired that SOB.
In the same way Koennig played with smaller quicker LB's that kept the plays in front of them and let nothing behind them. These guys couldn't get a 3 and out to save their behinds. Steele came in and went for the Smash Mouth Defense Big Powerful LB's and DL.
When those players I mentioned above left we had nothing much in the Cupboard. What we had was better than 6-7 but it wasn't what we needed and wasn't really much better than that record. the fact that we were in so many close games up until the end I believe is just as much coaching as many say the losses were coaching!
We are getting what we need right now and we are getting them in bucket loads.
So did Dabo have to rebuild NO, But he did have to recruit new players to fit his styles which were totally different than TB's style.
If you can't look at our Recruiting Classes now and see we are recruiting better athletes for a different scheme you have issues.
We will be better and it will be sooner than later!!
|
|
|
|
 |
Heisman Winner [105574]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 44178
Joined: 12/22/08
|
Very well said***
Jun 23, 2011, 3:08 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [55491]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58476
Joined: 7/18/07
|
Re: Very well said***
Jun 23, 2011, 3:21 PM
|
|
And I believe to be very true. But, with most on here, its the blind leading the blind....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [203]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 379
Joined: 1/30/10
|
Re: Very well said***
Jun 23, 2011, 4:35 PM
|
|
plus when you have a few really talented superstars that lead and then go down with injuries it can really put the brakes on what you are trying to do......spillers turf toe,kp's broken ribs in the au game, ellingtons torn up foot......the fact that we played as close with all these conditions speak highly of what the coaches were trying to do with limited weapons.......we saw how usucs game stalled when lattimore got hurt, imagine if they had lost jeffery as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [37023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16328
Joined: 12/15/08
|
Great Point!!***
Jun 23, 2011, 4:36 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6937]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 22594
Joined: 5/4/03
|
Re: Agree with you but we have fans "who want it yesterday""
Jun 23, 2011, 3:12 PM
|
|
and are not willing to anyone time to put it in place. Dabo may not do it as fast as another but he will do it and I don't believe we will suffer any repercussions from the NCAA for doing it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4483]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5995
Joined: 8/11/08
|
Re: Agree with you but we have fans "who want it yesterday""
Jun 24, 2011, 12:57 PM
|
|
I think alot of people, t-netters included, are going to be shocked at what we will be able to accomplish this season. It doesnt take long in college football for your program to change, turn the corner, etc. Can't wait, spot the dang ball!
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5636]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 9240
Joined: 11/30/98
|
we've been waiting since 1991... sure is taking a long time***
Jun 24, 2011, 1:04 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2073]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3424
Joined: 8/14/00
|
Yeah, but Dabo and Company have not been in charge of the
Jun 24, 2011, 3:13 PM
|
|
program since 1991.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Under TB the OC changed a few times but we always ran the
Jun 23, 2011, 3:22 PM
|
|
Spread. And Morris runs a version of the spread as well.
The defense despite a new system & new coaches has remained solid and last year was good enough to win every game except maybe UNC. The defense has kept our putrid offense in the game.
Dabo has taken recruiting up a notch, but the 4 or 5 years prior we consistently had top 20 recruiting classes. Even before Dabo took over we consistently out recruited every ACC school except FSU & Mia. Talent is NOT to blame for our lack of success!
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6937]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 22594
Joined: 5/4/03
|
Re: You are , conveniently, forgetting the 12 man
Jun 23, 2011, 3:27 PM
|
|
class.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Not at all. And if I recall, the Dabo lovers guaranteed that
Jun 24, 2011, 2:20 PM
|
|
would not happen if we hired Dabo. I can tell you this, had we hired a real winner it would not have happened, neither would that egg we laid last year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27378]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 31829
Joined: 8/19/03
|
Re: Under TB the OC changed a few times but we always ran the
Jun 23, 2011, 3:31 PM
[ in reply to Under TB the OC changed a few times but we always ran the ] |
|
We did not recruit the linemen needed to win championships. We recruited speed and athletic skill players. They are great to have but they will not win the big games for you. We still do not have the OL's that great teams have every year. Perhaps they are on the way but they will not win quickly. I am hoping that the new OL coach will improve what we have .... and I think that he will. This recruiting class we are putting together now will be good but great IF we get some BIG, MEAN, TOUGH, AGRESSIVE, BAD A$$ tackles and guards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
And dabo was recruiting CO and now HC. I've been saying
Jun 24, 2011, 2:22 PM
|
|
for years we look like USC during the 80s. Great skill guys, no OL dominance. ANY offense will be successful behind a dominant OL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [37023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16328
Joined: 12/15/08
|
OK so we have to look at the time in between TB and Morris
Jun 23, 2011, 3:33 PM
[ in reply to Under TB the OC changed a few times but we always ran the ] |
|
The Napier Years we will call them.
And yes Dabo hired him, but I think Dabo thought he was doing what was best at the time. He sunk a lot of money into Steele and the defensive staff because he wanted to sure that side up first.
He didn't have much money left to hire a proven OC so he promoted Billy at a low $ figure and figured he could help out. All speculation of course, but the QB Coach and old WR Coach trying to run the offense.
At that point in time we tried to run a Pro Style that is what Billy Wanted to do!! We did not have players to run that style of offense except for Spiller Ford and Palmer with a little Dwayne Allen.
So yes TB ran a spread and Morris runs a Spread, but Morris' spread is different still from the spread of old. Spence threw 800 Bubble screens per game, morris is gonna run the ball and open up the outside for throwing and the deep ball.
They are quite different hence the word version in your post!!!
Defense under koennig was not solid. It ranked well, but in reality with the game on the line you couldn't count on them to stop the other team or get them off the field.
And yes I do think talent played a role in our level of success or lack of it. Coaching was at fault but we did not have as much talent as a lot think we had.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6937]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 22594
Joined: 5/4/03
|
Re:Napier wad history when Ellington went out as there was
Jun 23, 2011, 3:39 PM
|
|
no one ele, at the time, but tippy toes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [203]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 379
Joined: 1/30/10
|
cant say im familiar with napiers wad.***
Jun 23, 2011, 4:39 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1297]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2282
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I see posts on here about Dabo having to rebuild our program
Jun 23, 2011, 3:27 PM
|
|
We've had 10 (I think that is the number) guys drafted so far who played on our 2008 Defense, with guys like Brandon Thompson and Andre Branch still in the program. I agree about getting some better linebackers, but I don't think its a change in recruiting philosophy at all. Koening would have loved to have gotten some guys the caliber of Steward and Anthony, he just couldn't convince any of them to come here.
On offense we've just been poorly coached more than anything. I'm expecting big improvement on that side of the ball this year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rooter [200]
TigerPulse: 13%
Posts: 809
Joined: 9/11/09
|
Re: I see posts on here about Dabo having to rebuild our program
Jun 23, 2011, 4:17 PM
|
|
Dabo "Clemson just needs an oil change."
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [37023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16328
Joined: 12/15/08
|
At first he gave it an oil change now he is giving it a
Jun 23, 2011, 4:21 PM
|
|
tune up and replacing some broken parts.
This isn't even a post that concerns you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [37023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16328
Joined: 12/15/08
|
Sorry jumped the gun, I am mostly used to seeing you
Jun 23, 2011, 4:23 PM
|
|
jump in with your defamation of Clemson!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16166]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26461
Joined: 11/18/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [418]
TigerPulse: 45%
Posts: 2114
Joined: 10/2/02
|
Re: I see posts on here about Dabo having to rebuild our program
Jun 23, 2011, 9:49 PM
|
|
Koenning and staff recruited some pretty good d linemen.
I don't think anyone would question that. And the d was pretty good. Steele has recruited some good linebackers this year. I will give him credit for that. He will need them when he loses the linemen that were here when he got here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Amateur [47]
TigerPulse: 70%
Posts: 99
Joined: 8/13/09
|
We haven't won a ACC championship since 1991 but
Jun 24, 2011, 8:37 AM
|
|
Clemson football is still Clemson football. We have recruited through mediocrity and now we've recruited through a losing season.
I say Clemson sells Clemson any day of the week and its the rich tradition we have and our brand that's been
getting talented teenagers to come here since our slump into mediocrity beginning with Ken Hatfield.
I think the current staff is doing a great job and are taking advantage of what we have and they're selling a product that still hasn't been taken out of the box. I love that we're recruiting so well, that's very exciting, but I caution anyone to get too excited before we see how these players respond to the coaching and the coaching period.
I bought into it all last summer too and I vow not to drink all the kool aid yet.
I'm just saying, I know I don't post on here much but I've seen this same enthusiasm for years every preseason. I say at best be cautiously optimistic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [334]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 1082
Joined: 7/18/07
|
Re: We haven't won a ACC championship since 1991 but
Jun 24, 2011, 12:52 PM
|
|
The first thing Rich Rod and TB did was take our offensive line and slim them down to about 275 so they could run. I know personally big mean kids who went to other programs because they were told -go to Clemson and with your size and style you won't have a chance in the pros. That was our rep. the whole time TB was here. And how many O-linemen do we have in the pros?
Dabo is changing that image, but we have been fighting a preception about our O-line for years that has hurt us more than most on here know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [415]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 1119
Joined: 11/25/07
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [418]
TigerPulse: 45%
Posts: 2114
Joined: 10/2/02
|
Re: Koening's D was good until 3rd down and 7 or even 14......
Jun 24, 2011, 2:16 PM
|
|
Ha. They beat South Carolina. And played well enough to get dabo the job. But my response was to publicist
CUDave anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [37023]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16328
Joined: 12/15/08
|
Thy did beat USUC but USUC didn't have players like they do
Jun 24, 2011, 2:21 PM
|
|
now offensively.
Are you saying the DL we have now with the mentoring of Dan Brooks and Marion Hobby will notbe able to perform.
We lose Branch, Thompson, Moore, and reserve Brown off of the D-Line this year, but I have seen that Tavaris Barnes, Shatley, and the other will get reps and practice time this year.
I think we will be better at DL than we think, but one thing is for sure. Behind those guys we need some more. I expect we will get a couple more good ones inthis class before it is over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [418]
TigerPulse: 45%
Posts: 2114
Joined: 10/2/02
|
Re: Thy did beat USUC but USUC didn't have players like they do
Jun 24, 2011, 2:47 PM
|
|
Ha. What? I never said anything about those guys. Of course they are good coaches. But the others are too. You brought it up. Not me.
See ya, Dave.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1207]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 2254
Joined: 12/25/03
|
Re: I see posts on here about Dabo having to rebuild our program
Jun 24, 2011, 12:57 PM
|
|
Yes, no doubt it will get better. Can't get much worse.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5636]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 9240
Joined: 11/30/98
|
find it funny, with some of the people around here
Jun 24, 2011, 12:58 PM
|
|
when TB and dabo were bringing these boys in many around here were thumping their chests, now most didn't have the talent to be in college football.
what will it be in 3-4 yrs when we have no championships... coaches or this talent was overrated too?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Everyones fault BUT Dabo!!***
Jun 24, 2011, 2:25 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 32
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
