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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 11:38 AM
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I hate to write that but we've been wandering in the desert for 20 years without a good head coach. I like Dabo & hope he makes me eat my words but it's not coincidence we haven't won an ACC title since Ford left.
I place this squarely on the administration & board. Too friggin cheap. Clemson has a history of hiring "good men" as coaches but come up short as coaches:
Hatfield- Horrible fit & ran a 1970s offense in the 90s
West- Overmatched with no experience
Bowden- Couldn't sustain any success & was crippled when Rich Rod left him. Previous experience, Tulane?!?
Dabo- Trying his best but I fear overmatched with no experience
Maybe the decision makers want coaches they can control & its a knee jerk reaction to the immediate previous coaches Pell & Ford?
I see the same 6-6, 7-5 year in 2011. This next hire has got to be the right one. Go hard after a Patterson or even a Rich Rod who's learned from his mistakes. But PAY for a proven professional who knows how to win! Otherwise its gonna be brief flashes of success & another 20 years in the desert.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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Is there a point to posting this in MAY?...
May 10, 2011, 11:43 AM
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Nothing is going to happen for months, so you may as well deal with it.
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Legend [18133]
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Rich Rod????? Epic FAIL at Michigan.
May 10, 2011, 11:45 AM
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I can't wait for Dabo to shut you fools up for good.
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Legend [16167]
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Only at Michigan,,,Took WVU to BCS...Twice***
May 10, 2011, 12:35 PM
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Team Captain [459]
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Rich Rod wasn't given ample time at Michigan.
May 10, 2011, 12:42 PM
[ in reply to Rich Rod????? Epic FAIL at Michigan. ] |
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Anyone who watches football knows that. West Virginia gave him time and he turned them into a power.
He drastically changed the style of play at Michigan, which is a minimum 4 year process, and yet each year, their record got better.
I hope Dabo does win, but so far, he hasn't given any reason to think he will.
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110%er [5093]
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Agreed
May 10, 2011, 12:55 PM
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He was so focus on turning around their offense, he might have slacked off on the defense.
They were just a D-Coordinator away from being a national title contender
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All-TigerNet [14480]
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Re: Agreed
May 10, 2011, 12:57 PM
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you know you goobers are in trouble when you have this dweeb agreeing with you.
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Team Captain [459]
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Why? Because he isn't a Clemson fan?***
May 10, 2011, 1:00 PM
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Rich Rod wasn't given ample time at Michigan.
May 10, 2011, 1:02 PM
[ in reply to Rich Rod wasn't given ample time at Michigan. ] |
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So are you going to give Dabo the same amount of time you would have give Rich Rod???
You dumpers talk out of both sides of your mouth
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Team Captain [459]
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Where did I ever say I wanted him fired? Please don't put
May 10, 2011, 1:03 PM
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words in my mouth. I stated a fact. He hasn't done anything that gives me hope that he'll succeed. That doesn't mean I want him fired.
Tommy Bowden brought in good recruiting classes. Tommy Bowden made staff changes we were all excited about. He still didn't win a championship.
Don't put words in my mouth.
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110%er [6577]
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Legend [18133]
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Nah, not holding my breath, but I do believe the right
May 11, 2011, 8:15 AM
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moves have been made to get us going in the right direction. I can see 9-3, 10-3 with a bowl victory. That would be an excellent start. 2012 would then be a chance for a superb season.
BTW, anything less than 8-4 will be a big disappointment. I'd be wondering if DS is the guy then.
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Orange Blooded [2550]
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Is there a point ro posting this at all?
May 10, 2011, 11:47 AM
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There was not one thought included in the post that hasn't been pasted on here ad nauseam.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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What is your alternative? "Remain calm, all is well"
May 10, 2011, 3:31 PM
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It's not well and it hasn't been for 20 years. I am a realist & don't expect a title every year but I do expect one once every decade or so for arguably the top 2-3 programs in a conference.
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Orange Blooded [2550]
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Re: What is your alternative? "Remain calm, all is well"
May 10, 2011, 3:40 PM
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We just signed the best recruiting class that Clemson has seen since Danny Ford, if not ever.
Dabo made some significant changes with his assistants, each of which I think were excellent hires.
I think the jury is still out, and "realists" (and I'm being kind here) like you need to keep your thoughts to yourself before you derail any momentum that Dabo has going.
Like a few others on here, I think that you're just a Gamecock trying to stir things up.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Re: What is your alternative? "Remain calm, all is well"
May 10, 2011, 3:52 PM
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I'm not buying it anymore. I've been going to Clemson games before many on this board were alive although there are plenty of posters that predate myself.
Listening to the hype (or lack thereof) as the season nears it all sounds way too familiar.
If I'm a bad fan for not blindly supporting my team then so be it. I've never booed a Clemson player or coach (although Hatfield was tough) nor ever will.
I thank Bowden for pushing for facility upgrades. I thank Dabo for taking us to a title game after seemingly getting knocked out of one every year by BC. I thank both men for the incredibly professional & classy transition between the two. But after 20 years lets get the right coach this time. I hope that man is Dabo.
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Orange Blooded [2550]
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Re: What is your alternative? "Remain calm, all is well"
May 10, 2011, 3:59 PM
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If you truly hope that Dabo is the man as you say, than #### with posts like your original.
Dabo is going nowhere until at the very least after next season. So why post crap like this?
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Re: What is your alternative? "Remain calm, all is well"
May 10, 2011, 4:14 PM
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Are you afraid to openly discuss the issue? Do you think we're really going to see the benefits from this year's recruiting class in 2011? So that means we're looking at 2012 so despite results we are burned into our current coach for 2 more years. Is that the appropriate time to speak?
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Orange Blooded [2550]
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Re: What is your alternative? "Remain calm, all is well"
May 10, 2011, 4:47 PM
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Do you not read this board?
This has been rehashed so many times here that we could argue this thing for two days straight and not come up with an original thought on the issue.
I try not to do anything that could possibly hurt Clemson and more specifically, Clemson Football. I feel that bringing this debate back to the forefront may hurt the university so I try to disuade it. Unfortunately, by doing so, all I have done is perpetuate it, and I will stop that on my end right here.
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Orange Blooded [2328]
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Re: Yes - after the end of the 2012 season is the appropriate
May 10, 2011, 8:55 PM
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Alright, I'll shut up. But my point has been made. Let's go Tigers & Dabo make me wrong!
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CU Guru [1636]
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You have nothing to be ashamed of
May 10, 2011, 9:32 PM
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I will admit this topic has been discussed to death, and we may as well drop it until we see how 2011 goes, or is going to go. But I admire Clemson fans that have the stones to look at things objectively. Trust me, there are NUMEROUS Clemson fans out there that share your concerns, but some are too afraid to post them here, because they might get their feeling hurt over a thumbs down. I don't post here in fear of getting thumbs downed, or to say what others want to hear. I call it like I see it, even if it hurts.
The only thing I will respectfully disagree with you on is Dabo should be given a little time, now that he is the head coach. I wasn't for the Dabo hire, but he was hired, and I am going to support him until I know beyond a shadow of a doubt he will not succeed. If he does not show improvement this season, then I will probably no longer have faith in him. Some Clemson fans I know in person are saying if we lose to the gamecocks again Dabo should be fired. That is just stupid. Those Clemson fans need to realize that once every so often, the gamecocks actually have a good football program. That success has always been short, but it rears its ugly head every two to three decades. If we go 9-3, and the gamecocks go 10-2 and we lose to them, then we would be foolish to fire Dabo. It's kind of like baseball. We both have good programs every year, but somebody has to lose. That does not mean they have a bad coach or team.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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I hear you
May 11, 2011, 8:55 AM
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I will support Dabo as long as he's our head coach. However being from Atlanta I have always used UGA as our yardstick not SCAR (Clemson is/has been a MUCH better program). UGA has many built in advantages over Clemson not the least being the incredible talent pool they can pull from. Since 1977 through the early 90s Clemson was on par if not above the UGA program. Why? How could Clemson overcome these advantages UGA had? One reason, superior coaching. Since Ford left both programs stumbled through the 90s until UGA hired Mark Richt. Clemson stayed the inconsistent same while UGA drastically improved. Now Richt is on the hot seat & is in real danger even though he has 2 SEC titles to his credit (what does it say about their fan base?). Point is UGA hadn't won an SEC title since Hershel left but with the right coach was able to rebuild the program. Clemson is in the same exact spot. Find the right guy (I hope its Dabo) & we too can hang some ACC banners.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Good for you. Your opinion is based on only 2 years of info,
May 10, 2011, 9:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is your alternative? "Remain calm, all is well" ] |
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It's 50/50 in only 2 years, and we made moves to improve in year 3. If you don't think they are going to do any good then obviously you have a right to that opinion, but if you've given up hope then you might as well hand in your fan card and move on.
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CU Guru [1636]
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Are you serious?
May 10, 2011, 9:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is your alternative? "Remain calm, all is well" ] |
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I use and prefer rivals.com as my recruiting source. They started doing recruiting rankings in 2002. Florida State has brought in a class like ours or better, with numerous top five classes EVERY YEAR but two of them. In 2003 and 2006 their recruiting classes were rated number 21. They have won the ACC title TWICE during that time span; in 2003 and 2005. The 2003 ACC championship was a year before expansion. They went 10-3 that year with a loss to us, who they out-recruited every year, and twice to Miami, once in the regular season and a rematch in the Orange bowl. So chances are, if Miami had been in the ACC then, they would have won it in '03. In 2005 they won the ACC, but their final record was 8-5. WE drilled them by three touchdowns that year, a bunch of guys who had out-recruited us. Penn State beat them in the Orange Bowl, Florida also destroyed them. That shows how weak the ACC was.
I agree that this conversation probably could have waited until the end of the year, but those who have raised their expectations because we brought in ONE recruiting class that is typical of what FSU brings in every year, and because we made a couple of coaching changes may be in for a major disappointment if they expect to immediately see the benefits of that.
I am a call it like I see it guy as well. On here that is known as a "coot," which is why I refuse to use that word any longer. I call my rival #####, gamecocks, or scar. And I am not going to lie, I am very concerned about the direction of our football program.
The only reason I have a glimmer of hope right now is because Dabo is a good recruiter. The only way that he will have success at Clemson is by continuing to bring in good recruiting classes every year, and to surround himself with some of the best assistants in the country.
The facts are the facts. If Dabo had a great offensive mind, our offense would not have looked like it did last season. True offensive minded coaches can take inferior players and run a decent offense. Spurrier did it at Duke in 89, Grobe has done it at Wake, PJ has done it at GT. They may struggle some years, but our offense would have looked better last season under any of those coaches, I don't care what anyone says. I would say last year was Clemson's best defensive team since 1990. To have as many three and outs as our offense did, and still have a defense that can dominate without getting worn out by late third/early fourth quarter was remarkable. Our defense saved us from having a very embarrassing season. If we had a mediocre defense last year, I am thinking we would have gone 3-9 or 2-10, with wins over North Texas, PC, and maybe Wake. Dabo obviously needs someone else to be the brains behind the operation. That is the only way he survives at Clemson, THE ONLY way. And if he doesn't survive, and we go out and make another Mickey Mouse hire, then Clemson football will be officially gone in my book, because that will show that our administration just doesn't care about it any longer. Call me a "coot" or call me a downer, but I am just a call it like I see it guy as well. Right now I am hoping Dabo has the right coaches in place to bring him success, only time will tell.
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Rock Defender [54]
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You are not a coot or a downer, you are a dumper.***
May 10, 2011, 9:16 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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"If Dabo had a great offensive mind"
May 10, 2011, 9:46 PM
[ in reply to Are you serious? ] |
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Dabo was head coach not the offensive coordinator. The offensive coordinator created the scheme called the plays. The offensive coordinator got fired because he wasn't doing a good enough job. Head coaches fire coordinators every year. That doesn't mean they are bad head coaches. Head coaches need good assistants. We now have a full staff of good assistants. Dabo can and will be a good head coach.
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CU Guru [1636]
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I agree that he can be a good head coach
May 10, 2011, 10:05 PM
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Danny Ford was young and inexperienced as well. He surrounded himself with some great assistants, particularly on defense. Our defenses were so good under Danny Ford that we really did not need a great quarterback with the three yards and a cloud of dust offense.
But do you not think that Dabo evaluated our problems on offense last season, and met with Billy Napier during the week to try and fix them? I heard from numerous people after we lost to Maryland in 2009 that Dabo and Napier had a heated argument after that loss. The rest of the season went well, but like another poster said, with the talent we had on offense that year just about anyone should have been able to make that offense look good.
Look, all I am saying is that I believe that if Dabo was an offensive wizard or guru that he would have solved our problems. That is my personal feelings, and you might be right, and I might be dead wrong. I am hoping Dabo succeeds here, and becomes our Paterno or Bobby Bowden. I am not against him, he's a good man, but he has to prove he can the job done as coach. If that means he needs to learn from other offensive coaches then so be it. I think Clemson is above being in the position of having a 'learn as you go' coach, but it is what it is, and I am behind him until I know he cannot get the job done....even if I sound harsh at times.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Dabo never claimed to be an offensive wizard and that's not
May 10, 2011, 10:10 PM
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why we hired him as head coach. I'm not sure why you're stuck on that. Good and great head coaches hire and fire assistants every year. Being a good or great coach doesn't mean you can just meet with assistants, snap your fingers and fix it. Good and great coaches have some down years.
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CU Guru [1636]
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Well, I am hoping
May 10, 2011, 10:20 PM
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We hired him because TDP and company saw something in him that others who questioned the hire could not see from the outside looking in, and not because we could get him for "cheap."
Jim Grobe's Wake Forest team struggled last year, so good offensive minds do have down years.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about the offense. That was the only reason we were bad last season, which is why I am stuck on that. We had a championship caliber defense. The offense got worse as the year went on. I know losing Ellington did not help, but that is part of the game. The NFL scouts apparently thought enough of Harper which means he must have picked up some slack for losing Ellington. And every team has injuries. That's why Dabo needs to continue to recruit well, so we will have quality depth. FSU's top ten recruiting classes paid off when Ponder went down. Their back up QB had no problems beating the Gators and #####.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I'll say it again...........
May 10, 2011, 10:27 PM
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Good and great head coaches have down years. Every last one of them. If they were able to simply meet with assistants and fix it, then they would. But it doesn't work that way.
By the way, Jim Grobe has had lot more than one bad year. Jim Grobe doesn't run the offense either.
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CU Guru [1636]
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I agree with most
May 10, 2011, 10:41 PM
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Urban Meyer is a classic example of a great coach having a down year last year. So is Mack Brown at Texas. Yes, great coaches most definitely have down years.
What I do not know yet is if Dabo is a great coach or not, and 2009 was not nearly enough to convince me. The ACC Atlantic has been down ever since it was created, we never have had a great team in this divison. A couple of good BC teams with Matt Ryan, who still could not beat the coastal champ. Wake Forest winning the conference in 2006 speaks for itself. Baylor does not win the Big 12, and Vandy does not win the SEC. I might think highly of Grobe, but that's because I think he gets the most out of inferior players. Wake Forest has no business winning the ACC in football, they really should be a 1-AA team, along with Duke in football.
The point is, the ACC is not a great conference. VT has pretty much carried us since expansion, and their only bowl win in all of those Orange bowls was against a freaking Cicinnati Big East team. We have been on the weaker side of the division in the already weak ACC, and winning it is nothing to brag about. I don't know that we will ever have two players with the speed of Spiller and Ford on our team at the same time again. You may disagree, but 2009 did not win me over with Dabo.
Yes, great coaches have down years, but do we have a great coach? That is what I am waiting to find out....
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Rock Defender [54]
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"The point is, the ACC is not ....". No. The point is you
May 11, 2011, 12:57 PM
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said Dabo should have intervened last year and saved our offense. The point is, it doesn't work that way or else good and great coaches would never have down year years, which they ALL do. You agree. So all that other stuff you said is irrelevant to that point.
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CU Guru [1636]
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Matty, please explain
May 11, 2011, 2:07 PM
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This post for me. And to address your last response, once again, I do not know whether or not Dabo is a great coach or not.
"done that any more than most teams."
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=10532999
The problem with Clemson football HAS been losing to the teams we should not lose too, and our fans keep making excuses about it.
Here are some interesting stats from other schools:
I will start with the SEC, and go back to 1990:
The two biggest door mats in the SEC over the last 20 years have been Kentucky and Vandy. Miss State and Ole Miss have been up and down out of the west. Kentucky is still normally better than teams like Wake and Duke. I would compare them to BC and Maryland in the ACC.
Florida: Became relevant in the nineties under Spurrier. They have won the SEC east more than any other since 1990. Their last lost to Kentucky was in 1986. Florid's last lost to Vandy was in 1988. Only one time since 1990 they have not won at least 8 games. In 2004 they went 7-5, and lost to 3-8 Miss State. That was an upset, although against one of the two worst Florida teams the past 20 years, last year's team was the other. So, one major upset.
Tennessee: Has been down recently, but would be considered second to Florida since 1990. They have had two losing seasons since 1990, in 2005 and 2008. They have not lost to UK since 1984. They've lost to Vandy one time since 1982, in 2005, when they had one of their two losing seasons. No major upsets.
Georgia: Been up and down with some really good teams in the early 2000s. They lost to Vandy in 1996, Vandy was 4-8, UGA 9-4. That was an upset. Lost to Kentucky four times: 1990: UGA 4-7, UK 4-7. 1996: UGA 5-6, UK 4-7. 2006: UK 8-5, UGA 9-5, UK beat Clemson in bowl game as well. Not an upset. 2009: UGA 8-5, UK 7-6, and Clemson beat UK in bowl. Not an upset. UGA one major upset.
Alabama: Tradition rich school mixed with national titles, a few down years, and probations since 1990. In 1993 they beat Vandy, but had to forfeit the win. They've not lost to Vandy outright since 1984. They lost to Kentucky in 1997. 'Bama went 4-7 that year, Kentucky went 5-6. Not an upset. In 2007 it was Saban's first year, a rebuilding job. They went 7-6 and lost to 6-6 La Monroe, who Clemson beat that year. I will call that an upset, although not of huge proportions. 'Bama, one major upset the past twenty years.
Auburn: I really should not include them. Nothing to brag about until last year when they cheated. Probations, several losing seasons since 1990. Lost to UK in 2009. UK went 7-6, AU 8-5, no upset. Only loss against UK since 1966. Lost to Vandy in 2008 for the first time since 1955. Very odd year--- AU 5-7, Vandy 7-6. No upset. Auburn, no major upsets.
LSU: Very mediocre in the nineties with only three winning seasons believe it or not. I will not even count the nineties. Lost to UAB in 2000. UAB 7-4, LSU 8-4. Upset questionable. Lost to Vandy in 1990 when both had losing seasons. No upset. Went 12-2 and won SEC in 07, lost to 8-5 UK. An upset, but not of magnitude proportions. I will say one definite upset. When they lost to UAB in 2000 that was before they became really good.
Big 12: Texas and OU have dominated, Baylor and Kansas have been the door mats the past twenty years.
Texas: Been good since Mack Brown. Lost to Baylor in 2010 for the first time since 1997. Neither were upsets. Texas went 4-7 in 97, and 5-6 last year. Baylor in an odd Big 12 year went 7-6 last year, 2-9 in 1997. I do not consider teams beating teams with losing records an upset.
Texas has not lost to Kansas since 1938.
Oklahoma: 8 national titles all time. 20-0 all time against Baylor. Lost to Kansas from 95-97, also had a losing record all three years. No upsets there.
Others:
Ohio State:
Lost to Northwestern in 1994, only time since 1971. Northwestern 6-6, OSU 8-4. Too close in records to call an upset like the ones we are talking about.
I just listed nine teams above who have been sucessful either the past twenty years, or recently. I could only find four major upsets out of those nine teams COMBINED.
Now, on to Clemson: 6-5 in 2004 lost to 2-9 Duke. 9-4 in 2003 lost to 5-7 Wake. 8-4 2005 lost to 4-7 Wake. 2009 ACC Atlantic champs, 9-5 lost to 2-9 Maryland. I will not even count the nineties for Clemson. Five upsets to extremely inferior teams. Not to mention Clemson should beat teams like GT, BC, and Maryland on a regular basis. Look at UGA, they own GT. GT and BC have winning records against Clemson in the 2000s.
GT is 2-9 against UGA since 2000. GT is 7-5 against Clemson since 2000. BC is 4-2 against Clemson since joining the ACC. I will say 2006 and 2007 were excusable, because they had one of their best quarterbacks ever. Besides that, no excuse. Clemson should be at least 4-2 against BC. VT is 5-3 against BC since they joined the ACC. FSU is 3-3 against them, and that was some of the worst FSU teams the past twenty years. FSU is 9-2 against Maryland since 2000. Clemson is 5-6 against Maryland since 2000. FSU has only lost to GT twice since FSU joined the ACC.
There is no justifying this. Clemson should beat teams like GT, BC, and Maryland 80% of the time. UGA has not been great every year since 2000, and they have had no problems doing so. FSU, even in their down years does not have a losing record to GT, BC, or Maryland. FSU has NEVER ONCE lost to Duke.
No, it just does not happen. The Floridas, Alabamas, and Texas' of the world do not lose to the Vandy, Kentucky, or Baylors of the world, unless there is just a very odd year like last year in the Big 12, where Texas had a losing season and Baylor had a winning one. The stars align every so often. I gave you nine teams and listed what I would consider four major upsets. Clemson, in the 2000s alone, has more major upsets than any of those teams COMBINED. When Clemson starts beating the teams we have no business losing too, maybe then we will start getting somewhere. Sorry for the long post, but I had to prove a point.
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Rock Defender [54]
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LOL! Do you really expect me to read all of that, especially
May 11, 2011, 6:28 PM
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considering it has nothing to do with "the point"?
You said that if Dabo was a good coach then he should have been able to fix our offense last season, and I pointed out that's not at all a correct statement. I used the fact that every good and great coach, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, has had some down seasons to prove it.
LOL. That seemingly endless tangent was weird man. Really, really weird. I guess you don't like being wrong?
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Rock Defender [54]
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By the way bubba, I don't think you really want to go off on
May 11, 2011, 7:17 PM
[ in reply to Matty, please explain ] |
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that tangent. It is very shaky ground.
I said "Clemson doesn't lose to inferior teams any more than most teams". Number one, there are roughly 120 teams in the NCAA. If you want to analyze all 120, then be my guest, but considering Clemson is 28th in the country in wins over the range you selected, then I feel very confident that the analysis will show "Clemson hasn't lost to inferior teams any more than most".
Regardless, just for kicks and giggles I decided to take a closer look at Alabama. Considering they have 3 less wins than us in your range, then one would think they've lost to more inferior teams than you've sketched up.
Indeed, a quick check in the range you selected shows one or more losses to each of the following teams: Louisville, Minnesota, Louisiana-Monroe, Kentucky, Central Florida, Northern Illinois, Hawaii, Southern Miss (twice), Ole Miss (twice), Louisiana Tech (twice), South Carolina (3 times), Miss State (6 times), and Ole Miss (7 times). This quick list is only pulling names of teams they should always be expected to beat. You missed several teams, and this quick list doesn't even consider "bigger name teams" that may have been inferior in that particular year.
Alabama has 3 less wins than we do in your chosen range. I'm positive a lot more of their 91 losses were against inferior teams. Definitely a lot more than what you showed.
That's just one team. I bet there are numerous cases in the teams you cited where you missed some losses or simply gave the other team too much credit. If we look at all 120 teams, then what?
In conclusion, Clemson indeed loses to teams they "shouldn't". But they don't do it any more than most teams.
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CU Guru [1636]
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It just went way over your head
May 11, 2011, 9:21 PM
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I have agreed with you that great coaches have bad years. But, there is no one out there that has enough evidence to know whether Dabo turns out to be great or not. He made some coaching changes, good. If they work out he may be fine, if they do not, he likely will not have a third chance at hiring another offensive coordinator.
I analyzed nine teams since 1990. The only team that I looked at that does not have a national title since 1990 is UGA. I do not consider a 9-5 Scar team that beat a 10-3 Bama team last year a major upset. Nor do I consider a 9-3 Scar team in 2001 that beat a 7-5 Alabama team an upset. It's not where 'Bama was ranked when they played them, it's where they finished, which was fourth in the west last season. What I consider an decent upset is a non BCS conference team beating a ranked BCS conference team, or a team in your own conference who finishes the season with at least three less wins than you. I think a team in your conference or another BCS conference that beats a team that finishes with four or more wins than them a 'major upset.' I actually forgot one, an 8 win Ole Miss team winning at a 12 win Florida national champion team in 2006. THAT was a major upset.
So, I analyzed nine teams, and each team COMBINED lost to a BCS conference team with at least four less wins than them five times. Clemson has done it five times alone.
Just like every coach has a down year, so does every team. Alabama won the national title in 1992. In 1997 they went 4-7 under a new coach. In 1999 that same coach had them back in the ten win column, so he saved his job. In 2000 he went 3-8 and was fired. Their next coach had them up to ten wins again in two years. After that they had four years of mediocrity, and he was fired. They went out and got a proven winner, who lead them back to 12 wins in 2008, and to a title in 2009.
All NINE teams that I mentioned have had at least 12 wins since 1990, even UGA, who had 13 in 2002. When those nine teams have been good, or had at least had 8 or 9 win seasons, they have not lost anywhere close to the equivalent to a 2-9 Duke or Maryland team, or a 4-7 Wake team. Sure, every team who has down years loses to some sorry teams. The nine teams I mentioned are top tier teams. Nine to ten wins are expected at the least. Mack Brown is already on the hot seat one year after taking a team to a national title. When those teams have down years they rebound quickly. Auburn went 5-7 in 2008, and won 13 games this past year. Clemson has not even won 10 games in 20 years, but I hope like heck that changes soon. I did not even list the nineties for Clemson. Do you think Alabama or Texas would put up with having losing records to Maryland, BC, and GT since 2000? What about three losses to Wake? If you want Clemson to be a second tier team then we had that with Bowden, an average team that wins 6 to 8 games, with a 9 win season blended in at times. Or do you want to be a top tier team? A team that has three or four ten win or more seasons a decade?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Nothing went over my head. You're being silly for even
May 11, 2011, 9:44 PM
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suggesting that. Your tangent arguement is horribly flawed.
I said, ""Clemson doesn't lose to inferior teams any more than most teams"".
When you get the time, please look at all 120 teams instead of your miniscule chosen sample size.
Regarding that miniscule sample size, I arbitrarily picked one team and showed that they lost to a MUCH higher amount of inferior teams than your tried to paint.
You can't pick and choose seasons and teams to suit your argument. Like your suggestion that Dabo should have fixed the offense, it just doesn't work that way. I took ONE of your chosen teams (out of 120 total teams) and utterly destroyed your argument.
In your chosen range, I showed that Clemson has won more games than Alababma. Alabama lost 91 games in the range you chose, and bunches of them were versus teams that anyone would consider as inferior. Again, the stuff I showed didn't even consider losses to "bigger name teams" in years where they were inferior to Alabama.
I arbitrarily took one team out of your select chosen few, and found several dozen more losses that you chose to ignore. There are more losses that I didn't cite.
That was your chosen team. You can scratch them off the list. They lost to a bunch of inferior teams in your chosen 20 years, just like everyone.
The analysis of 120 teams would undoubtedly yield similar results.
In short, your argument is terribly flawed. All in all, just like I said, "Clemson doesn't lose to inferior teams any more than most teams". Nothing you've shown disproves that.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Rock Defender [54]
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For the most part, he did. Regardless, ALL great coaches
May 11, 2011, 1:03 PM
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have fired assistants.
Once again your phony routine is destroyed by facts.
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Legend [18133]
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The thing is, though, Dave, Dabo addressed our glaring
May 11, 2011, 8:27 AM
[ in reply to Are you serious? ] |
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issues with this class. Had we averaged 6 points/game more on offense, we'd have had an Atlantic Division title last year. It was that close. The kind of receivers and RB we recruited will have an immediate impact. We also have some rs freshmen who will make an impact. As long as the D plays about as well as last year's--and I expect that to be the case--we're poised to make a run. I'm not making ACC championship predictions, because I know FSU is on the rise. But I do expect enough improvement this year to indicate we're coming on strong in 2012. AND there is the possibility we could catch lightning in a bottle this year. The talent is there. How fast can the O get up to speed in the new scheme?
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Rock Defender [54]
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I'll tell you what buddy........
May 10, 2011, 9:42 PM
[ in reply to What is your alternative? "Remain calm, all is well" ] |
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For every win over 6, will you pay me $100? If we finish with 6 wins, I'll pay you $300. For every win count less than 6, I'll pay you an additional $100.
Do you have any gonads, or are you just talking a bunch of junk?
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110%er [5802]
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You tell em StanleyTiger!
May 10, 2011, 10:11 PM
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If everyone doesn't see that you're MattyTiger now Stanley, after always trying to bet people on Clemson's success & season success according to your 122 polls, then they are probably blind 
thanks for proving my point
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Rock Defender [54]
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LOL.There you go again.
May 10, 2011, 10:15 PM
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You're cuckoo man.
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Rock Defender [54]
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well, Danny Ford was an OL coach so he kind of fits
May 10, 2011, 11:50 AM
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with the way CU hires its football coaches. CU does not go out and go after the high dollar coaches.
The problem is not that CU does not have the likes of Danny Ford anymore, the problem is that now the ACC has VT, FSU, and Miami.
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Legend [19209]
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Of which we have beaten FSU and Miami in several contests
May 10, 2011, 11:52 AM
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over the last several years. We will see about VT in the next cylce but nothing to do with that.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I know...FSU and Miami have been down lately...
May 10, 2011, 12:11 PM
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but FSU dominated for a decade when they joined and adding VT and Miami just made winning a little harder. It is surprising that it has been 20 years since CU won the ACC in football, but CU has not won since the beginning of expansion.
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CU Guru [1838]
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Die-Hard [8977]
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Happened in the 80s too.***
May 10, 2011, 12:58 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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110%er [5093]
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All-In [37023]
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So sort of like the SEC East last year???***
May 10, 2011, 1:40 PM
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110%er [5093]
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Yes***
May 10, 2011, 1:47 PM
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Legend [16167]
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And yet FSU was still able to run through Florida and you
May 10, 2011, 2:56 PM
[ in reply to Those teams haven't been very good recently*** ] |
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like melted butter last year, the two top teams in the SEC East right? Not bad in an off year...
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110%er [5093]
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FSU wasn't the only inferior team we lost to last year
May 10, 2011, 3:02 PM
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Kentucky
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Without Lattimore healthy, you're inferior to a lot of teams
May 10, 2011, 3:10 PM
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Better hope he doesn't have an injury that sidelines him most of the season like we had with Ellington.
Imagine this ... You lose Lattimore from October on, while we have a fully healthy Ellington in November.
The old shoe might have been on the other foot if that happened.
Oh, I know ... injuries are part of the game.
But, when you suffer them, part of the game begins to be that you lose to "inferior" teams.
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CU Guru [1838]
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Ellington played at 3-5 BC.***
May 10, 2011, 3:16 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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That was the game he got hurt in ...
May 10, 2011, 3:22 PM
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What's your point??
Lattimore played in a couple of losses too.
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CU Guru [1838]
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First play of the fourth..
May 10, 2011, 3:34 PM
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I don't give a darn what Lattimore did.
Coots lucked into the stars aligning and UF, UT, and UGA sucking at the same time.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Re: Okay, then
May 10, 2011, 3:39 PM
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You responded to a post and a thread discussing the relative value of Ellington and Lattimore and the affect of injuries to each of them.
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CU Guru [1838]
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You used AE as the excuse to losing to inferior teams
May 10, 2011, 3:57 PM
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yet he played three fourths of a game against a five game losing streak team that was 1-4 in the ACC. Doesn't hold water.
There should have been no drop off since you still had one half of the New Storm and NFL'er KP
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Re: You used AE as the excuse to losing to inferior teams
May 10, 2011, 4:04 PM
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You're right, losing your best player for the last quarter of a 6 point loss isn't significant.
And playing with a QB with cracked ribs isn't important either.
Seriously though, what are you even talking about in that last sentence?
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CU Guru [1838]
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The beginning of the season. The nickname for Ellington and
May 10, 2011, 5:14 PM
[ in reply to You used AE as the excuse to losing to inferior teams ] |
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Harper, the best backfield in the nation. Harper and Parker, the All-American, first round draft pick should have easily picked up the load vs BC. They were a 3-5 team that was 1-4 in the ACC.
If Parker still had cracked ribs at that point, Coach Dabo is to blame, unless Boyd is terrible.
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Legend [16167]
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110%er [5093]
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Maybe we can open your eyes wider this November.
May 10, 2011, 3:25 PM
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Withiout Lattimore, you basically stunk.
You can speculate differently, but you really, really need to hope that you don't have to play any games this year without Lattimore.
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110%er [5093]
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Doubtful***
May 10, 2011, 3:26 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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I was pretty "doubtful" too after Clemson went 7-2 against
May 10, 2011, 3:32 PM
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SCAR from 2000-2008 ... doubtful that SCAR could string together 2 in a row.
But, you know what?
Things turned around in a hurry.
Do not be surprised if things get back to normal just as quickly.
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Legend [16167]
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Oh NO...They've turned the corner now! Go ahead...just ask
May 10, 2011, 3:37 PM
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them...
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110%er [5093]
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Legend [16167]
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Priceless...***
May 10, 2011, 3:56 PM
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Legend [16167]
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Meh...We lost to a couple of inferior teams that year...***
May 10, 2011, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to Doubtful ] |
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Legend [16167]
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Joined: 11/18/03
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Legend [16167]
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And does FSU get to hang a banner for winning the SEC East?***
May 10, 2011, 3:21 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
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Legend [16167]
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FSU beat UF, you know-the 2nd best team in the SEC East,
May 10, 2011, 3:30 PM
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31 to 7. That is a bad beat...Did you think YOU were the SEC East's SECOND best?
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CU Guru [1838]
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I'm neither, thought you were referring to bowl game
May 10, 2011, 3:36 PM
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Sorry. yes FSU tore UF a new one. Awesome to see.
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Legend [16167]
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Thats why nobody pays you to think...***
May 10, 2011, 3:39 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
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Actually they do. Go figure***
May 10, 2011, 3:58 PM
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CU Medallion [55498]
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110%er [5093]
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That's revisionist history
May 11, 2011, 1:07 PM
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we completely laid an egg and they still barely scraped by.
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Legend [16167]
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Clearly the inferior team won by 9...***
May 11, 2011, 1:41 PM
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CU Guru [1740]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Legend [18133]
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Rock Defender [54]
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FSU has been ranked 8 times since 2000. Miami has been
May 10, 2011, 9:58 PM
[ in reply to Those teams haven't been very good recently*** ] |
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ranked 7 times since 2000. Just for reference, USuCk has been ranked 6 times,,, in the entire history of the football program. It's probably not a good idea to refer to those teams as not very good recently. It really comes out as comical coming from a cockfan.
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Legend [16167]
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Yeah but they're not on a two game win streak like the
May 10, 2011, 11:12 PM
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juggernaut in Columbia...Why they've won FOUR Bowl Games...ALLTIME!
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110%er [5093]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Is that your argument? Are you serious?
May 11, 2011, 1:20 PM
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8 times since 2000.
7 times since 2000.
6 times.. since 1896.
Yeah, really no difference there.
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Legend [16167]
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FACTS aren't really reflective of how right you are...***
May 11, 2011, 2:05 PM
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Legend [16167]
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Legend [16167]
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110%er [5436]
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Rock Defender [54]
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VT was a nobody when we were winning championships and
May 10, 2011, 7:35 PM
[ in reply to well, Danny Ford was an OL coach so he kind of fits ] |
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Pell/Ford left VT to come to Clemson. If VT can do what they do today given their past, we should be much much better and a top 10 program. We have everything they do and more. The only thing they have that we don't is a true commitment to success!
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Legend [19209]
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How do you know after only 2 seasons (1 a winning one and
May 10, 2011, 11:51 AM
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1 a losing one) if we have one or not? Kinda like unexperienced Ford at the end of 1980 season. How do you know?
Or how about experienced proven Hatfield at Arkansas? Or ...??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
How do you know? We are at a crossroads but what would you say in 5 years if we had 4 or 5 winning seasons under Dabo?
Too early to tell. This year will be huge to see if we are moving in the right direction. If not, there will be changes but until then--hold tight and BE POSITIVE!
Pulling for the Tigers always, GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!
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All-In [37023]
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Clemson needs
May 10, 2011, 11:53 AM
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better fans than ones that post stuff like this.
Dabo just made tremendous hires with new assistants after getting rid of the ones that needed to go.
he also just landed a top 10 national recruiting class that met everyone of our teams needs.
If you can't get on board with that then get off.
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Enthusiast [119]
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Posts: 94
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Re: Clemson needs
May 10, 2011, 12:18 PM
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Preach that stuff sir
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All-Pro [661]
TigerPulse: 48%
Posts: 1382
Joined: 4/27/09
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Re: Clemson needs
May 10, 2011, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to Clemson needs ] |
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Did that top 10 National Recruiting class get us a top quarterback?
Because top quarterbacks are an absolute necessity for any top 5 team. Clemson has not and does not have this top quarterback.
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All-In [37023]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 12/15/08
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Hard to say
May 10, 2011, 1:42 PM
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we got Cole Stoudt who looks pretty good and by the way...
We have this guy named Tahj Boyd. If I remember correctly in 2009 he was rated as one of the top QB's nationally and has played behind the incumbent that was Kyle Parker.
He may do very well now that he gets some quality reps.
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110%er [7650]
TigerPulse: 67%
Posts: 8306
Joined: 9/18/03
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Re: Clemson needs
May 10, 2011, 2:31 PM
[ in reply to Clemson needs ] |
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I only care about ONE thing when it comes to Clemson football and its not recruiting classes or assistant coaches, its not tailgating or halftime passes...
its wins
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All-In [37023]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 12/15/08
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agreed wins are very important
May 10, 2011, 3:06 PM
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but without those other subjects you don't win.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4418
Joined: 1/27/03
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Might as well pull a post from the Bowden era & it reads the
May 10, 2011, 3:35 PM
[ in reply to Clemson needs ] |
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exact same. New assistants, great recruits, have faith its a new day......same results.
Let me say again I hope & pray Dabo proves me dead wrong.
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110%er [8015]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7922
Joined: 5/27/08
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Bowden's downfall was that he wouldn't hire new
May 10, 2011, 4:17 PM
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assistants... I'm not sure where you're going with this.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1/27/03
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I think it was more a symptom of not winning games***
May 10, 2011, 4:25 PM
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110%er [8015]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Because he kept Spence around.***
May 10, 2011, 4:29 PM
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Orange Blooded [3821]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1/27/03
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I won't argue that point***
May 10, 2011, 4:32 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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you mean firing the guys he should have fired 2 years ago?
May 10, 2011, 7:38 PM
[ in reply to Clemson needs ] |
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and you call a great hire a high school coach with 1 year of small time college football experience?
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All-TigerNet [14480]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: you mean firing the guys he should have fired 2 years ago?
May 10, 2011, 7:39 PM
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oh my god, groundhog day is back.
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CU Guru [1057]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Joined: 12/28/03
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Hatfield
May 10, 2011, 12:03 PM
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Hatfield won an ACC title, but thanks for playing anyway.
Good Grief, some people on here......
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110%er [7650]
TigerPulse: 67%
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Re: Hatfield
May 10, 2011, 2:31 PM
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so you wish we still had him?
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Orange Blooded [3821]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1/27/03
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Are you really going to give that title to Hatfield?
May 10, 2011, 3:25 PM
[ in reply to Hatfield ] |
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How many players on that team did Hatfield recruit?
BTW the answer is ZERO.
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CU Guru [1002]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 2894
Joined: 9/3/05
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It's said that only a Michigan man can win at Michigan.
May 10, 2011, 12:04 PM
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That has proven to be somewhat true. Well, maybe only a blue-collar Alabama underdog can win at Clemson. Instead of looking at it as admin wanting people they can control, why not look at it as Clemson going back to our roots.
Frank Howard, Danny Ford, and now Dabo Swinney.
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Team Captain [459]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Joined: 9/7/04
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I hope Dabo succeeds, but please don't include him in a
May 10, 2011, 12:47 PM
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discussion with Frank Howard and Danny Ford. It's not even close.
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110%er [5436]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 11913
Joined: 9/23/01
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Re: I hope Dabo succeeds, but please don't include him in a
May 10, 2011, 1:23 PM
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How do you know this????
Danny Ford 1st year he was 8-4 2nd year he was 6-5
Dabo 1st year he was 9-5 2nd year he was 6-7
So please tell me how you know this
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Team Captain [459]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Joined: 9/7/04
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Tommy Bowden went 6-6 and 9-3. Do you really want to
May 10, 2011, 1:43 PM
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include him too?
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110%er [5436]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Re: Tommy Bowden went 6-6 and 9-3. Do you really want to
May 10, 2011, 2:09 PM
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What's that got to do with Dabo?????
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Team Captain [459]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Joined: 9/7/04
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You're using the first two years of tenures. So that's what
May 10, 2011, 2:20 PM
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I'm doing with Bowden.
Are you really going to put Dabo Swinney in the same company as the man who won our only national championship and the man who has the field named after him?
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110%er [5436]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Joined: 9/23/01
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Re: You're using the first two years of tenures. So that's what
May 10, 2011, 2:30 PM
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No but I'm not going to discount him just yet because I don't know and you don't either
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Team Captain [459]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 816
Joined: 9/7/04
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And once again, I didn't discount him. You have a habit
May 10, 2011, 2:33 PM
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of putting words into my mouth. I said don't include him with Danny Ford and Frank Howard.
Danny Ford led us to a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Clemson's field is named FRANK HOWARD FIELD.
Dabo Swinney should not be mentioned in the same breath except to say they've all been Clemson coaches.
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CU Guru [1002]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 2894
Joined: 9/3/05
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Associate AD [800]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 1280
Joined: 5/4/03
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You would have griped about Ford before his success came.***
May 10, 2011, 12:04 PM
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Orange Blooded [3881]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7036
Joined: 9/1/09
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All these internet coaches really know how to build a...
May 10, 2011, 12:06 PM
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program, that's why they are where they are. I suspect we have another house coot here.
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Asst Coach [748]
TigerPulse: 72%
Posts: 1466
Joined: 9/20/10
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Re: All these internet coaches really know how to build a...
May 10, 2011, 12:15 PM
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lmao
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Orange Blooded [3821]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1/27/03
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No, I was there when he won his first game.
May 10, 2011, 3:56 PM
[ in reply to You would have griped about Ford before his success came.*** ] |
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"Ford has a better idea"
I was also in Athens when we should have beaten UGA the following year (keeping them from a national title) if it wasn't for Scott Woerner returning a punt & interception for TDs.
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Starter [368]
TigerPulse: 75%
Posts: 512
Joined: 3/7/10
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Re: Ur an idiot. Hatfield won the ACC, and BTW,
May 10, 2011, 12:09 PM
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Ford had no experience and was "overmatched" when he was hired. He grew into a great HC. Give others a chance to do the same.
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Asst Coach [748]
TigerPulse: 72%
Posts: 1466
Joined: 9/20/10
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Re: Ur an idiot. Hatfield won the ACC, and BTW,
May 10, 2011, 12:15 PM
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he won w/Danny`s recruits lol
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Hall of Famer [22965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 25005
Joined: 6/24/99
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Re: Ur an idiot. Hatfield won the ACC, and BTW,
May 10, 2011, 12:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Ur an idiot. Hatfield won the ACC, and BTW, ] |
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am certainly NOT disputing the main point of your post.....just wanted to point out that probably you or me could've won the ACC with talent Hatfield inherited his first season
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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Kinda like DatBoy***
May 10, 2011, 12:18 PM
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Hall of Famer [22965]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 6/24/99
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Re: Kinda like DatBoy***
May 10, 2011, 12:21 PM
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not a clue what you're talking about or inferring...
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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Wow. I am not even a Clemson fan and know Dabo
May 10, 2011, 12:25 PM
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is short for Dat Boy. He won the division with talent you could have coached to the ACCCG
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Orange Blooded [2061]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 1665
Joined: 1/26/05
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thanks for your input or output whichever it is***
May 10, 2011, 12:26 PM
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Hall of Famer [22965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 25005
Joined: 6/24/99
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Re: Wow. I am not even a Clemson fan and know Dabo
May 10, 2011, 12:32 PM
[ in reply to Wow. I am not even a Clemson fan and know Dabo ] |
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You're not a Clemson fan!!!! No one would ever have suspected!! maroon...."even I know Dabo is short for Datboy"....geezus
Your point is neither well thought out nor effective. The talent level inherited by Hatfield (and considering the era and competition) was several levels above what Swinney inherited including the same considerations .
Stick to something you know about---Wofford level football
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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So CJ and Jacoby were just run of the mill athletes
May 10, 2011, 12:53 PM
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along with Sapp and Bowers the TE that caught everything and who could forget everybodys all American DeAndre.
And there are many on here who agree. Dabo was handed the ATlantic with that talent.
Message was edited by: elcid1985®
Message was edited by: elcid1985®
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Hall of Famer [22965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 25005
Joined: 6/24/99
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Yawn.***
May 10, 2011, 12:56 PM
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110%er [5436]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 11913
Joined: 9/23/01
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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Amen, the planets were definitely in a once in a milinium
May 10, 2011, 1:33 PM
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alignment.
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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All-TigerNet [11934]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16363
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: I didn't say the Atlantic was weak, just an extremely
May 10, 2011, 4:09 PM
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Injured NFL-caliber players do not usually win championships.
Sapp, Bowers, McDaniel ... all played with injuries.
Kyle Parker ... injured.
CJ Spiller ... injured.
Ellington ... injured.
Just to name a few.
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110%er [8015]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7922
Joined: 5/27/08
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All-Conference [418]
TigerPulse: 45%
Posts: 2114
Joined: 10/2/02
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Re: Dabo also recruited that talent...thanks for playing.***
May 10, 2011, 4:51 PM
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Dabo recruited Spiller and some other good players. He certainly did not recruit all the good players, for sure. Especially the defensive players. But he has the best facilities, resources, and talent of any of those other coaches. Especially Bowden, who did good for what he had to work with.
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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All-Conference [418]
TigerPulse: 45%
Posts: 2114
Joined: 10/2/02
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Re: It was awesome talent but he did not inherit a
May 10, 2011, 7:41 PM
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I don't think the team was troubled at all, just banged up. Spiller had been out several games and they were 3-3. Tommy could have finished good or bad. Who knows? The spin was that things were horrible, of course. Dabo has lots of advantages now. He should do well.
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Enthusiast [147]
TigerPulse: 87%
Posts: 242
Joined: 3/7/09
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 12:24 PM
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Dabo won the divison two years ago. Give the man a chance!!!
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Rooter [234]
TigerPulse: 22%
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We gave him a chance as WR coach -***
May 10, 2011, 1:24 PM
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Follower [253]
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 1:25 PM
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Just another wasted post!
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Zealot [832]
TigerPulse: 82%
Posts: 1177
Joined: 9/29/09
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Dabo is a fine head coach
May 10, 2011, 1:41 PM
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He's taken us to the conference championship, injected incredible life into our program, and has just netted an incredible recruiting class. He needs four or five more years to take us home.
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All-In [27390]
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Joined: 1/27/03
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Why? Because I make a comment questioning the direction
May 10, 2011, 4:07 PM
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of our program after 20 years without a title? Do you agree Clemson is one of the top 2-4 programs in the ACC? I do. Then where are the results?
Yes, we are able to consistently beat the poultry. We should. We're a better program. Then why can't we have substained success in the ACC even for one season?
Coaching is king in college football. What have we lacked since Danny Ford left?
The only responses I have seen are #1 you're no fan & #2 have faith in Dabo. Well, I had faith in Hatfield, West & Bowden. I'm done with faith. Let's get results.
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All-In [27390]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 31830
Joined: 8/19/03
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Re: Why? Because I make a comment questioning the direction
May 10, 2011, 5:09 PM
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Aren't you a Furman man?????
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Orange Blooded [3821]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4418
Joined: 1/27/03
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Re: Why? Because I make a comment questioning the direction
May 10, 2011, 5:22 PM
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Furman grad, lifelong Tiger fan.
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CU Guru [1243]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 617
Joined: 11/1/10
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Furman representin'!
May 10, 2011, 7:51 PM
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These Clemson Grads just can't think objectively like us Furman grads wink wink. I kid I kid. Go Paladins and Tigers!!
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Orange Blooded [2349]
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 1:47 PM
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Bull sheet
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 2:08 PM
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I agree,There is no excuse why we have fallen a part as a football program but only one and that is coaching.The fact is that Dabo is our coach,and we need to get behind him.This year will tell the truth about his coaching skills.This year there needs to be Improvement,In a weak ACC we should win at least 8 games.Then in 2012 anything less than a ACC championship,means Dabo is not doing his job.Tiger fans lets support Dabo for two more years,and if no great improvement then its time for him to go.
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CU Guru [1325]
TigerPulse: 87%
Posts: 2580
Joined: 8/10/06
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 2:56 PM
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You said you hope Dabo makes you eat your words. I think he'll do just that.
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All-TigerNet [14480]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 2:57 PM
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amazing the mods let these idiotic threads flourish without a thing being said.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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Joined: 1/27/03
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CU Guru [1366]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 1398
Joined: 10/24/05
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Clemson needs a real weedout system for it's fanbase
May 10, 2011, 3:27 PM
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what jackwagons we have...
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Joined: 6/12/10
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Re: Clemson needs a real weedout system for it's fanbase
May 10, 2011, 4:11 PM
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we do have some fans that have no clue,if you don't win the conference and/or a division title,every year,it's the coaching.nevermind the other schools get the same amount of schollies we do.if any of y'all have played any sport you know that sometimes you lose to a team that you know you should,could,but didn't, beat.thats the nature of sports.its humbling.yes,we should expect to compete for the title,but don't fire everyone each time you don't.dabo is 1 for 2,imo he should get 2-3 more years to really get to see if he can win-consistently..
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Rock Defender [54]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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what a stupid post, 1st we havent won the ACC in 20 years
May 10, 2011, 7:52 PM
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2nd we gave TB 10 YEARS not 1 or 2. 3rd Dabo was a incredibly stupid hire. You fire TB after 10 years and hire a bad WR coach that has never been a coordinator off that same failed coaching staff? Only Clemson would do something so monumentally stupid. 4th TB rebuilt us, he just couldn't get over the hump and Dabo's oil change turned into a blown engine.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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CU Guru [1660]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 3659
Joined: 9/16/07
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Stupid
May 10, 2011, 7:48 PM
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As much as you've practiced you should be an expert.
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Rock Defender [54]
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yea just ignore the facts***
May 10, 2011, 7:55 PM
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CU Guru [1660]
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Re: yea just ignore the facts***
May 10, 2011, 7:57 PM
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Nah, it's just too easy to get the impaired riled up.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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You're a fake, and the only way you've been able to hide it
May 10, 2011, 10:04 PM
[ in reply to yea just ignore the facts*** ] |
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for this long is by ignoring facts. You won't be able to do that much longer, and it's going to be comical watching you fold like a cheap tent.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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i'm a fake? huh? typical stupid pumper response***
May 11, 2011, 2:10 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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I'm not a pumper, but you ARE a phony.
May 11, 2011, 1:05 PM
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Time will tell, and deep down you know it.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Being stupid...............
May 10, 2011, 10:02 PM
[ in reply to because being stupid and supporting people like TB and ] |
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.....equals you looking in a mirror. You're a phony, and not a very intelligent one. Your time is running out, and deep down you know it. Going to be fun watching you disintegrate into even more of a moron.
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Aficionado [175]
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Posts: 685
Joined: 8/31/08
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 4:24 PM
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Kickoff must be getting near...ready to find a new coach before the first snap.....at least give him one series of downs....
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Zealot [832]
TigerPulse: 82%
Posts: 1177
Joined: 9/29/09
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Let's hire all coaches from now on...
May 10, 2011, 4:27 PM
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On a game by game contract. It's real simple. Lose a game and you're OUTTA HERE! A bunch of our fans would be giddy! Just think, last season they could've celebrated the hiring of seven coaches.
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Orange Blooded [3405]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 6:36 PM
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So out of curiosity, how many years of experience did the "great" Danny Ford have before becoming Head Coach at Clemson?
That's right he was an assistant (not coordinator) for 6 seasons. He was promoted from OL coach to Head Coach in two years at Clemson. I guess that was another "cheap" hire.
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All-TigerNet [14480]
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 6:38 PM
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and most of these goobers dont remember had danny not beat the coots in the orange britches his legend would have never been. the idiots back then were after his scalp, yes, in year 2.
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Addict [400]
TigerPulse: 24%
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Joined: 11/3/06
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 11, 2011, 2:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson needs a real head coach ] |
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> So out of curiosity, how many years of experience did
> the "great" Danny Ford have before becoming Head
> Coach at Clemson?
>
> That's right he was an assistant (not coordinator)
> for 6 seasons. He was promoted from OL coach to Head
> Coach in two years at Clemson. I guess that was
> another "cheap" hire.
So using that analogy, would you suggest getting all your players from 7 man football since Gaines Adams turned out so good?
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CU Guru [1660]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 6:53 PM
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Ignorance runs amok once again.
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CU Guru [1929]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 10, 2011, 7:44 PM
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while we are at it , can we get some better informed fans that dont waste bandwidth?
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CU Guru [1243]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Joined: 11/1/10
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He's got 2 more years to make BCS
May 10, 2011, 7:57 PM
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that's it. not 4-5 years like some of you yokels want.
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Junkie [538]
TigerPulse: 33%
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Joined: 10/27/06
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Dabo deserves patience. 4-5 years minimum IMHO***
May 11, 2011, 8:59 AM
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Head Coach [762]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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stupid post***
May 10, 2011, 8:42 PM
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Scout Team [171]
TigerPulse: 42%
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Joined: 9/24/01
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Agree with Tiger Den, but wont happen too many people dont
May 11, 2011, 9:02 AM
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remember what winning is like, they drink the cool aide, and buy the hype about next year. Not many people are honest about the level of teams on the schedule...there should be 9 plus wins every year. But 7 wins this year will bring in all the cool aide drinkers with the moving in the right direction hype.
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Commissioner [953]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Joined: 1/3/05
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Do you have any original thoughts or what?
May 11, 2011, 10:57 AM
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You are regurgitating the same thing that has been said on here probably a thousand times in the last 6 months. You woke up yesterday am and felt you had something important to say?
What's worse is you are getting points for this!!
Shame,shame
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Orange Blooded [3821]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1/27/03
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Re: Do you have any original thoughts or what?
May 11, 2011, 3:31 PM
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I disgree. Please read all my comments then you'll realize this is not a "fire Dabo" post. In fact I hope he succeeds because I want Clemson to succeed.
One reaction has been "not now, sheesh give the man a chance". OK. I can see that point and he deserves the opportunity.
However, I am tired of the administration & board not doing their job & finding the best possible candidate within their working parameters or making the best financial decisions regarding their employees (see Bowden contract). Quite simply they have failed the university for the last 20 years. I hope they bumbled their way into a very successful run with Dabo. But it wouldn't be because of their compentency.
I hope there is a kernal of originality is this post for you.
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Aficionado [118]
TigerPulse: 48%
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Aficionado [118]
TigerPulse: 48%
Posts: 352
Joined: 1/1/07
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 11, 2011, 4:34 PM
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He had his chance. He said it would only take an "oil change" to right the ship, it's been 2.5 seasons, and he "righted" the ship head-on into the rocks last year.
If you people want to let him off the hook, go ahead. I'm not. Screw Swinney.
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Team Captain [464]
TigerPulse: 27%
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Joined: 9/28/08
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I couldnt agree more....Dabo really needs to go!
May 11, 2011, 8:03 PM
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We will not get over the hump with him as our coach. He's a world class recruiter BUT not a head coach!
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Walk-On [140]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Joined: 1/26/01
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What a fookin waste of internet bandwidth - that's all *****
May 11, 2011, 10:07 PM
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Fan [82]
TigerPulse: 19%
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Re: Clemson needs a real head coach
May 11, 2011, 11:23 PM
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If dabo has another bad year I say give Jeff Scott a crack at it.
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