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110%er [6089]
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everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 12:23 PM
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Im not, I never had high expectations for this year, but I will say this. These ACC teams better get us now while they can, because we are a young football team with even more help on the way.
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MVP [528]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 12:28 PM
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Finally, a real fans appears! Thank you brother!
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CU Guru [1025]
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^^^^ Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 10:06 PM
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This. Same.
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Orange Blooded [3866]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 12:47 PM
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Im not, I never had high expectations for this year, but I will say this. These ACC teams better get us now while they can, because we are a young football team with even more help on the way.
Dabo said the same thing early in the 2021 Season — about 30+ Games ago.
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Heisman Winner [140588]
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Thats the spirit.***
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Oct 15, 2023, 12:47 PM
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110%er [9735]
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I only remember him saying it in 2010
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Oct 15, 2023, 12:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: everybody is down on this team ] |
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And then proceeded to kick everyone’s ### for the next decade.
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Legend [18792]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 2:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: everybody is down on this team ] |
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I would get carpal tunnel typing out all the Dabo player hype that never came to fruition.
I get it though, that's his job! I don't expect him to talk about how bad his players are, that would be stupid.
I do wish he would tone it down a little. It builds unreal expectations. I think Riley was closer to telling it like it is - our offense needs help.
I do like the future of the team though, seen some promising new players: Parker, Barnes, Woods, and Brown to name a few. I also think Pride is going to be the next stud at CB.
This Oline as got to be better next year, right? I think we say that every year - Dabo built them up this preseason and although pass blocking isn't terrible, they fail to push anyone off the line.
I still would like to see us bring in help on offense where we need it. Maybe a game-changer in the backfield or at WR?
And yes, even big fans can be disappointed in the way the team is playing.
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Athletic Dir [867]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 2:20 PM
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You should have carpal tunnel from posting the same stupid BS over and over.
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Legend [18792]
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Doesn't everyone post the same stuff over and over?
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Oct 15, 2023, 2:23 PM
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Or can you not read too good?
Nice pulse btw.
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Athletic Dir [867]
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Re: Doesn't everyone post the same stuff over and over?
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Oct 15, 2023, 2:39 PM
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How many new threads do you need to start about the portal?
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Letterman [297]
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110%er [5436]
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110%er [5436]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 15, 2023, 9:05 PM
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Dabo
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Orange Blooded [2595]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 9:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: everybody is down on this team ] |
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I agree with you Pacific Beach tiger. I’m not down on the team but I feel that with all the resources Clemson has, facilities, coaches salaries, recruits, etc we should expect great things every year. Then I look at Alabama this year and even with Saban still there they don’t look that great. I never thought I’d see that there as long as he’s their coach!
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Freshman [-94]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 16, 2023, 7:27 AM
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Really? Because alot if other programs have the same or more resources. Clueless much?
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Orange Blooded [2595]
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Ok goober
Oct 16, 2023, 8:00 AM
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Resources don’t guarantee a playoff or national championship team. There are many schools that have more resources than Clemson but don’t have the record or championships we’ve had over the last 10 years. We’ve come to expect it here.
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Trainer [27]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 12:51 PM
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Sounds like a gamecock, wait until next year !
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110%er [5121]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 12:58 PM
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Not everyone.
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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I LiGHT our D a lot
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Oct 15, 2023, 1:36 PM
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even though it ain’t the vaulted Rangers in Sacks & Manhandling of the Oline.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 2:01 PM
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Ok. If you say so. Our team has gotten worse every year since the LSU Debacle. I see nothing changing. Dabo has doubled down on stubborn.
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Legend [18792]
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Shhhhhhhh....
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Oct 15, 2023, 2:25 PM
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Obviously you're not a real fan if you point any of this out.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Shhhhhhhh....
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Oct 16, 2023, 11:55 AM
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Well it's factually incorrect. The 22 team improved from 21.
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CU Guru [1502]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 2:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: everybody is down on this team ] |
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This team is a lot better than your suggestion. Turnovers kill any team. It doesn’t matter if they have 2 stars or 5 stars. The 2023 Tigers have had major issues with turnovers at very inappropriate times. That has been the issue. Clemson is better than Duke. That isn’t me being sore about Duke beating Clemson. Watching that game, it never felt like Clemson wasn’t in control of that game until that disastrous fumble on the one yard line. I think if that doesn’t happen, Clemson wins that game.
The FSU game was a good game. It was a game Clemson could have won, but FSU made a great defensive play, and the area were Clemson is worse, kicking, but Clemson hard in that game. Losing to FSU this year isn’t anything to be ashamed of, but Clemson is ever bit of FSU equal, as far as I am concerned.
Ultimately, based on the turnovers, installing a new offense, and breaking in a rookie QB, 4-2 isn’t all that unbelievable.
In fact, I think most folks, even the unrealistic types (those who want to fire Dabo and think Clemson should go 15-0 EVERY year) would have not been all that alarmed, if told in July, Clemson would be 5-1 at the BYE week. Both losses sting, no doubt. However, the Duke game is the though one because Clemson truly beat themselves. Duke is a good team this year, but if that game is played, home or away, 10 times, I think Clemson wins 8 or 9 times out of 10 without mindless turnovers. Ultimately, neither team that has beaten Clemson is something for Clemson fans to feel bad about. They lost to one good, solid team and one, possibly GREAT team. The killer in both were the turnovers, not ineptitude of offensive progression or poor defensive play.
The current health of the Clemson football program at the half way point of the 2023 season is good. Need improvement? Sure. The team needs better ball security and for Williams (when he is healthy) and Brown to be on the field at the same time. As always, Clemson can lose any game, but if they play to their ability, I full expect to finish the regular season 10-2 and 6-2 in the conference.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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our 2015 team had 13 TOs through 6 games.....
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Oct 15, 2023, 3:02 PM
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and were 6-0.
This team has 10 and is 4-2.
The difference?........ELITE Talent to overcome the mistakes, we don't have that anymore.
These turnovers aren't "fluky", they're a trend and we don't have the Elite talent to counter balance those mistakes with big plays to make up the difference.
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Heisman Winner [140588]
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Thru the first 6 games of 2015
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Oct 15, 2023, 3:24 PM
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We averaged 448.5 yards/game. Thru six in 2023, we’re averaging 437.8 yards/game. Elite talent is good for 10.7 yards/game? So 10.7 yards/game is the difference?
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CU Guru [1502]
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Re: our 2015 team had 13 TOs through 6 games.....
Oct 15, 2023, 8:54 PM
[ in reply to our 2015 team had 13 TOs through 6 games..... ] |
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Uh, not fluky? Fumbling on the 1 isn’t fluky? You suggest Clemson now does not have the talent to avoid turnovers or overcome? I remember a certain running back Clemson once had. Outside of anyone not named Travis Etienne, he’s the best RB I’ve seen Clemson have in almost 25 years, and yes, that includes CJ Spiller and James Davis (I’m talking pure RB, not a multi tool threat). Well, he coughed it up on the 1 with his team about to take the lead. His team had the third best QB in Clemson history, and the two best wide receivers in Clemson history. His team also had one of the best TEs in Clemson history. Yet, his team then proceeded to get the dog crap beat out them and suffer one of the most embarrassing losses in Clemson history. Oh, and the TO margin was 4 to 1. The same thing happened in Raleigh that season with dumb turnovers. That day it was like 4-0 TO margin. Turnovers can beat any team.
Remember that one loss the 2016 had? That was a pretty good team, wouldn’t you agree? Why did that loss even happen? Was it the long FG? Was it the fact Clemson couldn’t get one measly yard for a 1st down to ice the game in the 4Qtr? Nope. I think it was, what was it, three turnovers and 100+ yards in penalties. Turnovers will kill ANY team, even the greatest of teams.
Talent hasn’t been the overall problem for Clemson since 2020. I’ll grant you that WR production/results have taken a step back. The OL has been hit or miss pretty much every year since Tommy Bowden came to Clemson (and that’s not a dig at him). You can’t really compare QBs because Clemson had two generational QBs within 6 year span. That won’t ever happen again in our lifetimes, so while it’s easy and obvious to say that talent is down at QB, it’s not quite fair considering who we are comparing others against. DJ wasn’t horrible. I’ll grant you he didn’t achieve the levels of success his much hyped recruiting seemed to predict, but he wasn’t nearly as awful as his many fan board detractors suggest. What was his record? Wasn’t it like 20-5 as the primary QB? That’s pretty dang good. Cade is basically a rookie QB this year. He might be EXTREMELY good by 2025, but he’s not at the level Watson and Lawrence were as Freshmen and Sophomores. Few are. Remember, those two dudes finished second in the Heisman and should have won it.
The problem with Clemson, in my opinion, since 2020 has been dramatic coaching changes/turnover after YEARS of continuity , in addition to injuries and critical turnovers and the worst possible times. From 2015-2020, it was exceedingly rare to see top shelf offensive and defensive playmakers be lost for weeks and weeks. That started rearing its head a bit in 2020, which was somewhat due to the Wuhan. However, 2021 and 2022 saw more than one top tier defensive guys essentially lost for the entire year, as well as significant injuries to the WR group that was expected to contribute heavily. Those things just didn’t seem to happen in mass quantities between 2015-2019. Now, that might very well just be my perception, but it seems that way.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: our 2015 team had 13 TOs through 6 games.....
Oct 16, 2023, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to our 2015 team had 13 TOs through 6 games..... ] |
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I agree that, at least offensively, this team is not good enough right now to overcome some of the things that they could of at times in the past. However, it is more than the number of turnovers. It is where they happen, how does it affect momentum, and is there a return associated with it. If a pass gets intercepted 40 yards down field on 3rd down, it is not the same as fumbling on the 1 as you are going in for a TD or a scoop and score when you are driving.
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110%er [5436]
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CU Guru [1025]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 15, 2023, 10:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: everybody is down on this team ] |
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Dang, why didn't Dabo just go ahead and win everything every year? Would that be enough?
Have you noticed is it very difficult to sustain something like what we experienced from 2015-2020? Only Alabama had more titles in that stretch, and even they are down now (a bit, for them). I think we will get there again, but you can't have it all, all of the time.
Yes, the portal has changed CFB, but is it really for the better? It is yet to be proved that heavy portal usage equals national titles. Hasn't happened yet. I have no idea how sustainable CFB will be in its present state, but it worries me. I don't see how anyone who loves college football can approve of the current wild west environment. NIL is NOT what it was purported to be. The notion that someone is paying players to promote their product because they'll sell more with those endorsements is a joke, with few exceptions. The concept was that name and image were worth something. What is happening is a far cry from that. Even the NFL has a framework (draft positioning) that ensures that the have-nots can at least have hope. That is one reason they are still going strong. When 10 or 12 college programs ever have a realistic chance of winning a title, the interest will fade, seats will go empty, programs will fade.
I'll put down the bourbon now, and wish all Tiger Fans a good week to come. Sorry if this is destined for the TL;DR hopper.
Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 16, 2023, 10:40 AM
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No the NIL had not been as advertised and the portal is a revolving door, but there is more parity than it use to be. The rich will get richer argument has proven false.
I don't like the effect that it has had on Clemson and I don't think the path has been what was expected, but the results of parity look good to this point.
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Standout [340]
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Not everybody is down on them
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Oct 15, 2023, 2:09 PM
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It’s just the cry babies, wannabes, naysayers, and coots on here showing themselves.
But be thankful that they stand up and announce themselves, each and every one, for what they are. Now you can just put them on ignore and block out the whining as if it never happened. You won’t miss a thing: they really don’t have anything meaningful to say at all.
Be blessed!
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Associate AD [816]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 15, 2023, 2:13 PM
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Im not, I never had high expectations for this year, but I will say this. These ACC teams better get us now while they can, because we are a young football team with even more help on the way.
Have you looked at the two deep on defense? We're not young there
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All-TigerNet [14474]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 16, 2023, 8:06 AM
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Replies: 33 | visibility 2,201
User Logo
fbtigers
MVP [541]
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Re: everybody is down on this team 1
Oct 15, 2023, 2:13 PM [ in reply to everybody is down on this team ]
Reply
a7xgates® said:
Im not, I never had high expectations for this year, but I will say this. These ACC teams better get us now while they can, because we are a young football team with even more help on the way.
Have you looked at the two deep on defense? We're not young there
WE. LMAO. THAT IS RICH COOT.
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Orange Blooded [4461]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 15, 2023, 10:23 PM
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We have as good a defense as there is in college football this year. During this open date and after 6 games you will see a much improved offense with us taking care of the ball much better
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Orange Blooded [3462]
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We've been a young team for about three years now
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Oct 15, 2023, 10:53 PM
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Gotta grow up some time. The reason a lot of young players are starting is because our 5 star jr's and seniors haven't ever developed. I'm thinking mostly the wide receivers. They weren't getting it done so Dabo had to go to the younger players. Our assistant coaches are not doing their jobs developing these players. Especially at WR. O line is very similar. Shipley and Maffa are not as impressive as they were last year, though that could be a line issue. So yes we do have a lot of young players on offense except for the RBs. But will these players get better? I hope so.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 16, 2023, 7:24 AM
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Yes, it is really stressful knowing about the recruiting class that was put together and signed as freshman this season, and hopefully they can keep the class together that have committed until they are allowed to sign with us for next season, but, I personally believe that Dabo dropped the ball with replacing experienced coaches that we lost when two of our coordinator took HC-ing jobs and took some of our experienced position coaches with them to their new jobs.
I honestly don't believe the now coaching staff has the experience needed to get the talent that we have to the national championship game and win it. If he don't search for and hire a few experienced coaches at the end of this season, all the talent on our Tiger team could be wasted....
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110%er [6397]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 16, 2023, 7:27 AM
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It’s possible that we lose every starter on defense though. We’ll need the offense to take massive leaps forward next year.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 16, 2023, 7:37 AM
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We have some young guys taking snaps now that will hold up our defense I think, but we need coaches with a lot more coaching experience bc our now staff equals a freshman coaching staff!!!
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110%er [6397]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
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Oct 16, 2023, 7:50 AM
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Next years defense will lack experience and the depth will be razor thin. If only there was a way to bring in experienced players to come and start right away.
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All-In [27374]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 16, 2023, 8:10 AM
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Develop leadership and recruit players with an attitude who absolutely refuse to be beaten by anyone and you will have a real team
Easy for me to say!
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 16, 2023, 7:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: everybody is down on this team ] |
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I dont think depth will be that bad on defense. I have a feeling the secondary will mostly remain intact. LB is a concern. DL wont see much of a drop off. Will agree the portal as a supplement would be nice but the numbers must allow it.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 16, 2023, 10:48 AM
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I actually did have high expectations for the team, and still do to an extent. I think that we are better than everybody on our schedule, but we are not the 2018 team that could have a bad game and win by 20. If we play well against our tougher opponents, then we run the table. I don't know if that gets us anywhere, and not having a poor game against the wrong opponent, is not a given.
Anyhow, I think that the defense is special and if the offense comes together, then nobody would want to see us on the schedule. Are we National Championship caliber? Probably not, but this is still a very good team.
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CU Guru [1959]
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Re: Right there with you my friend.***
Oct 16, 2023, 10:49 AM
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: everybody is down on this team
Oct 16, 2023, 7:05 PM
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Lost in all of this is how young this team really is in the 2 deep. Its going to a fun ride the next 2 years. If Dabo can hold on to Wesco and Moore next year will erase alot of doubts about Clemson football. Cade has not looked like a killer, yet. I really thought this kid would be a stud in college watching him play Ewers team in high school. Kid has it but imo the coaches need to rip the bandaid off and loosen up the governor and let the kid take his lumps with downfield shots. 3 a game aint good enough, ik coverages are the main reason for that but teams will also crowd that box on 3rd and 1 in a hurry, its time for some playaction
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