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Topic: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!
Replies: 62   Last Post: Jan 22, 2021, 9:38 PM by: Clemsonkjt1
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Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

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Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 12:30 PM
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I have seen a bunch of threads discussing possible depth charts at various positions. I love thinking about what can be. Below is about as full a depth chart as I could put together. I am sure there are guys listed out of position, especially along the OL. And yes, there is lots of speculation below, but that is part of the fun. For the most part I left our freshmen at the back end of the depth chart. If anyone wants to tinker with the order, have at it. The main reason I share this is for the eye popping talent depth we have. Yes, we have questions at QB2, RB, and several OL spots, but MY GOODNESS look at the talent on this team. A healthy DJU and who knows how good we can be!! Enjoy!


Clemson Football Depth Chart Projection

Offense
QB – DJ Uiagalelei, Taisun Phommachanh, Hunter Helms, Bubba Chandler, Will Taylor
RB – Lyn-J Dixon, Chez Mellusi, Kobe Pace, Darien Rencher, Michael Dukes, Phil Mafah, Will Shipley
WR1 – Justin Ross, EJ Williams, Beaux Collins
WR2 – Frank Ladson, Ajou Ajou, Decari Collins
WR3 – Joseph Ngata, Brannon Spector, Troy Stellato
TE – Braden Galloway, Davis Allen, Jake Briningstool, Sage Ennis, Jaelyn Lay
LT – Walker Parks, Tristan Leigh, Bryn Tucker
LG – Matt Bockhorst, Paul Tchio, Deitrick Pennington, Kaleb Boateng
C – Mason Trotter, Hunter Rayburn, Ryan Linthicum
RG – Will Putnam, Tayquon Johnson, Marcus Tate, Trent Howard
RT – Jordan McFadden, Mitchell Mayes, Blake Vinson, John Williams

Defense
DE1 – KJ Henry, Justin Foster, Greg Williams, Zaire Patterson
DE2 – Myles Murphy, Xavier Thomas, Justin Mascoll, Cade Denhoff
DL1 – Tyler Davis, Payton Page, Tre Williams, Ruke Orhorhoro,
DL2 – Bryan Bresee, Demonte Capehart, Etinosa Reuben, Darnell Jeffries
SLB/N – Mike Jones Jr, Trenton Simpson, Sergio Allen, Barrett Carter*
MLB – James Skalski, Jake Venables, Kane Patterson, Kevin Swint, Jeremiah Trotter Jr.
WLB – Baylon Spector, Lavonta Bentley, Keith Maguire,
SS – Landon Zanders, Ray Thornton, Jalyn Phillips, Barrett Carter*
FS – Nolan Turner, Joseph Charleston, RJ Mickens, Tyler Venables, Andrew Mukuba, Ben Batson
CB1 – Derion Kendrick, Sheridan Jones, Mario Goodrich, Nathaniel Wiggins
CB2 – Andrew Booth Jr., Malcolm Greene, Fred Davis, LeAnthony Williams

* indicates double position listing

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Placing Ross first at WR1 may be...

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 12:34 PM
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overly optimistic at this point, but I sure do hope you end-up being right.




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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Placing Ross first at WR1 may be...

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 12:36 PM
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I am a "half-full" type of guy… but yes, I hope I am right too!

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Re: Placing Ross first at WR1 may be...

[1]
Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 4:46 AM
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Really? It's a lock. I assume that was sarcasm.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[4]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 12:52 PM
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I think everything looks pretty good.

Obviously the order of reserves is up for debate until probably at least the week of the first game and likely after.

Seeing all of the names listed reminds you that there a few guys who can make some major noise with some small improvements to their game.

Also of note, Ben Batson is no longer playing football.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 1:27 PM
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That's right. I forgot Ben retired from football. Good note. Thanks

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 12:54 PM
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Looking at this just made me realize something. Anyone think we could lose some linebackers with the old guys staying, and the new 5 stars coming in?

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 1:00 PM
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Even without seniors returning, it's possible for Clemson to lose guys to the portal every season.

This offseason is no different in that area.

The only LB who was supposed to leave and is returning is Skalski.

Even though Spector has graduated, he was only a junior on the field this past season and so guys behind him are probably not surprised he is back.

Another thing to remember, even though many posters have him doing both, Barrett Carter was announced as a safety on signing day.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 1:03 PM
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Well of course. Just seems like a bit of a log jam at that position in particular. I can see some of the "middle" guys on the roster getting jumped in 2022 by some of these freshman

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 12:59 PM
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This is what I hope the 3 deep looks like, so obviously it will be very different in reality

QB: DJ, Taisun, Bubba
RB: Dixon, Mellusi, Shipley
WR: Ross, Williams, Beaux
WR: Ngata, Ladson, Ajou
WR: Spector, Stellato, Dacari
TE: Braden, Davis, Briningstool
LT: McFadden, Leigh, Tucker
LG: Bockhorst, Tate, Howard
OC: Putnam, Linthicum, Rayburn
RG: Tchio, Pennington, Trotter
RT: Parks, Mayes, Williams

DE: Thomas, Henry, Zaire
DT: Bresee, Ruke, Capehart
DT: Davis, Williams, Page
DE: Murphy, Foster, Mascoll
LB: Skalski, Patterson, J. Venables
LB: Spector, Bentley, Maguire
LB: Jones Jr, Simpson, Carter
CB: Kendrick, Sheridan, Davis
S: Nolan, Charleston, Phillips
S: Zanders, Thornton, Mickens
CB: Booth, Goodrich, Wiggins
NCB: Malcolm, Mukuba, T. Venables

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 1:04 PM
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It isn't just you, but I am shocked at the number of people who are listing Spector as a starter with Ladson or Ngata or EJ Williams on the bench.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 11:01 AM
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He plays a different position than those three.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 12:25 PM
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Clemson's coaches have shown before with multiple guys that they will choose talent and production over which position a player is used to playing.

Even Justyn Ross played a lot in the slot as a true freshman when the coaches wanted to put he and Higgins on the same side of the field.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 1:36 PM
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Yes, he did, but for special formations. Not for the entire game. They typically play the players at their positions for most of the game. That’s why Spector will see a lot of time on the field this year.

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I'd rather see the most talented guys out on the field


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 2:58 PM
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but i guess we will see how it goes. It's just hard to imagine that a guy like EJ Williams can't do damage out of the slot. Bama puts elite WRs in the slot all the time and gets them isolated on LBs and safeties that can't run with them.

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Re: I'd rather see the most talented guys out on the field


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 3:09 PM
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I would argue that EJ is not built for being an effective slot WR. He is built as a field WR that challenges DBS downfield in 1 on 1 situations. Typically, like everyone knows, slot WRs are smaller, quicker, and elite route runners with incredible hands. Hunter Renfrow was exceptional in the slot because he had all of the above. He was too quick for LBs to cover, while also being too good of a route runner for safeties to cover. EJ, Ladson, and Ngata are too big. They are more suited to be on the outside challenging teams vertically. I believe Spector and Stellato are more suited for the slot because of their similarity with Renfrow and Amari.

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Re: I'd rather see the most talented guys out on the field


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 3:14 PM
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Just take your example from Alabama and the WRs they use in the slot. DeVonta Smith is 6'1, more quick that fast, exceptional route runner, and has great hands. Jerry Jeudy was also 6'1 with similar traits as Smith. Henry Ruggs and Jaylen Waddle are both under 6'0 and both run sub 4.3 in the 40. All of them are built to be effective slot WRs. EJ, Ladson, and Ngata are built to be like Martavis Bryant, Mike Williams, and Tee Higgins. That's why I see them being in the two deep on the field and boundary positions. Their skill set is more suited for those positions.

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Job well done Mr. Robb

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 1:13 PM
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You may very well have named the starting lineup of Game 1. My take is RB is wide open. Based on 2020 production, I’d like to see EJ get a shot at Ladson. RG, C and LG should be wide open. I’d like to see McFadden, Mayes or both move inside if it would improve line run blocking and quickness. A healthy Foster easily beats out KJ IMHO at DE. Simpson, Patterson, Bentley and Trotter need reps as LB speed needs to improve vs. playoff caliber teams. Carter needs a lot of reps if he can learn scheme to break into lineup. Finally, after DK and Booth, Greene and Jones have more talent than the balance of CB’s. Anyway, that’s my take, but again, job well done on laying out 2021 lineup. I’ll be interested to read what others think.

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Re: Job well done Mr. Robb

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 1:23 PM
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You and I disagree about Ladson. I want him on the field as much as possible if he is healthy.

I do agree with you on strengthening the inside of the offensive line being a priority. I think it's much easier to help a tackle than a guard or center.

I like all of your defensive thoughts as well.

Don't forget about Fred Davis when discussing the CB rotation. He played really well in his limited snaps this season and should only get better in his 2nd season with the team.

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Re: Job well done Mr. Robb


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 11:07 AM
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What have you seen out of Ladson that makes you want to see him on the field so much?

He’s shown some flashes of being good, but he’s shown just as many flashes as being a bust. Not just drops, but with blocking and route running. He’s young so hopefully he will develop into the dominant player we all hope he is.

Williams on the other hand has shown a ton of good in his limited playing time. He’s a great route runner and blocker, as well as having excellent hands.

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Re: Job well done Mr. Robb


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 12:17 PM
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Ladson has physical traits that nobody else in the group, except maybe a healthy Justyn Ross, possesses.

He is a mismatch for almost any defensive back that can be put on him because of his size and elite speed.

As I have said before, he will either be Deon Cain if he stays inconsistent or he will be Martavis Bryant if he shores up his hands. Either way, both guys were major problems for defenses during their time at Clemson.

Also Williams graded either lowest or just above lowest in run blocking out of all of the WRs.

You are projecting positive traits onto a player because you like him instead of actually knowing what he is good at.

Most of that is not Williams' fault as he hasn't yet had the weightroom time to let him get physical with mature college DBs. I am sure he will improve. I really like him but in my opinion Ladson's ceiling is much higher.

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Re: Job well done Mr. Robb


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 2:09 PM
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Lol. You are saying that I’m projecting positive traits on a player just because I like him without actually knowing what he’s good at directly after doing the EXACT same thing. That’s great.

Williams literally has been compared to Ross more than any other receiver on the team by multiple coaches and media members. Williams and Ladson have the same size and speed. The difference is Williams has much better ball skills at a younger age. He finds a way to get open (route running) all the time. He is every bit the mismatch Ladson is, but he can catch what makes you think Ladson is such a mismatch? Him being open on a few go routes?

I guess it’s supposed to mean a lot that a true freshman grades out lower than an established player who’s played college football before? Are you really putting a lot of stock in that? I know I saw him move people. I’m sure he wasn’t as consistent as he needed to be, but most freshman aren’t.

I just don’t know how you can say Ladsons ceiling is higher, other than projecting just because you like him, based on what we’ve actually seen and their physical traits which are pretty much identical. Ladson could end up being much better than Williams, but he needs to catch up first and establish some consistency.

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Re: Job well done Mr. Robb


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 8:41 PM
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No argument Ladson can get open TigersO. If he can work on hands which is correctable with hard work (e.g. Jerry Rice). And yep. I whiffed on missing Fred Davis. Lots of potential!

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 1:27 PM
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Well done. I always love to see these during the off-season. I know all Defensive starters are returning, other than the two transfers, did we lose anyone else on defense?

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[1]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 1:28 PM
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TNTiger17 said:

Well done. I always love to see these during the off-season. I know all Defensive starters are returning, other than the two transfers, did we lose anyone else on defense?




Any 'non-starters' I should say.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 1:33 PM
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Like TigersO mentioned there are always portal guys and we will likely see a few guys move on after Spring and reality of the depth chart kicks in, but I am not aware of any other departures at this time. We are crazy deep on defense!

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

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Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 4:08 PM
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If Shipley is number six on the depth chart this will be am amazing team! I telling you.....this boy can play the game.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 4:14 PM
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Shipley will definitely get on the field in my opinion and contribute quite a bit. I mentioned I left the freshmen at the back of the line for the most part. It may be hard to keep Shipley and Mafah off the field, but they will definitely have to cover significant ground.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

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Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:42 AM
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I think the RB depth chart is even more up in the air than previously thought because there is a new voice leading the discussions.

We have all become comfortable with what to expect from Elliott in terms of who gets on the field.

Spiller may have a slightly different philosophy when it comes to a rotation or how to determine the order that the backs get in the game.

I think that factor makes for a really interesting spring and fall camp as we learn more about which players are shining.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:27 AM
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I like Fred Davis. Serious skills. Love these kind of posts, takes me back to earlier days on tnet.

Anyway, I do have a question for you experts. I know Galloway has received tons of praise and he's got ok game to me But not dominate. TE is a position that Clemson used to always recruit well... Or at least it seems like it.

Hopefully Briningstool will be our Kelce or Gronk. I see most listing as rotation

Braden, Davis, Briningstool. Braden or Davis weren't highly recruited or respected by the recruit services but Jaylyn was rated like 4th and 5th TE national yet no one puts him in the 3 deep. What am I missing? As always Tia.

You guys rock!

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:47 AM
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Like I just mentioned with the RB discussion, all bets are off when trying to figure out how Elliott is going to change the way Clemson views its TEs.

Will run blocking be more of a determining factor the way he viewed pass blocking with the RBs?

Will we see them used more in the passing game the way UF used Pitts this season? That would likely give a big nod to Briningstool if we make that change.

I'm not as excited to see how he changes TEs as I am to see how Spiller uses RBs, but it will be another interesting aspect of seeing how Elliott calls plays moving forward knowing that he is in the room with these guys every day.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[3]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 4:47 PM
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I wanna see a whole lot more of LeVonta Bentley this year. It seemed like every time he stepped on the field he made a big play. The man's a violent tackler.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

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Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 5:17 PM
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SammyDub said:

I wanna see a whole lot more of LeVonta Bentley this year. It seemed like every time he stepped on the field he made a big play. The man's a violent tackler.




Yup. Been a fan of his since he arrived. Seems like he can be an alpha dog at LB.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

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Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 6:12 PM
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Late to the party but yes, I second or third that wish. I think he makes a big leap with a full spring/summer workout. Got all the athleticism you'd dream of. Can't remember all of his plays, but he seemed to hit and wrap quite well.

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No way Mason Trotter will be 3rd Team as some have alluded to

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Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 6:32 PM
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Although he does not have ideal size, he did pretty well this past Season. Also, he got meaningful snaps at both G and C.

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Absolutely, Bentley needs to play...


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:33 AM
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Watching him in that Virginia Tech game was a real treat. Pursuit speed, hard hitting while wrapping up, playing the right gap. I would like to see him start over Spector.

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Re: Absolutely, Bentley needs to play...

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Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:52 AM
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At least listed as an or. Shared 1 position. The only thing you can't argue is Spector graded out well all year. Now, who knows what Bentley would have graded with the reverse snaps.

Hate even thinking this but the Spectors are like the Spiers, both carry weight in Clemson atheletics. But Baylon can play. However, I agree with most whom posted above that Brannon should be a 2 with the WR talent we have. We'll see in the spring. If Brannon can get some nasty in him playing slot on third and medium and dominate the back over the middle vs waiting on the ball, he should start.

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Re: Absolutely, Bentley needs to play...


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:55 AM
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I ask this honestly, because nobody has been able to explain it to me at this point.

Why are so many people wanting to replace the leading tackler and highest graded LB from our defense?

I understand Skalski gets the headlines and everybody wants him in the lineup.

I know that people want Simpson to start and seem to be ok with Mike Jones Jr as well in a combo situation with Simpson.

In reality, none of those preferred LBs had a better season than Spector.

I am genuinely curious what people don't like about him.

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Re: Absolutely, Bentley needs to play...

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Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 7:00 PM
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I am guessing here but I think it has to do with the 1st Notre Dame game. Skalski and Jones were out and Ian Book made Spector look bad on a coupe big plays he made with his legs (but Book has done so pretty consistently in his career). I remember thinking that he seemed limited athletically in open space. I think folks understand the depth we have recruited at the position and are hopeful that recruiting will provide the answer to what has seemed to be a concern.

I think Spector had a really solid year. I remember especially early in the season he looked like he was shot out of a cannon making huge plays for us. I think through the season I saw less and less of that (An 11 game season is a grind = I'm looking at you Ryan Day:)). And to be honest position grades are helpful, but they don't tell he whole story. Getting a high grade is about carrying out your responsibilities on that play… step the right way, shoot the right gap, make the correct read or adjustment… It is not about how quickly you get there. An OL can potentially grade out 100% and never have a pancake. Another guy can grade out at 80% but pancake his block and push up to the second level and take out the safety to spring a TD run. I really like Spector, but the ceiling on some of these younger guys is much higher.

That's my guess.

Message was edited by: CRobb®


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Re: Absolutely, Bentley needs to play...


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 10:41 AM
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I do understand that grades are not everything and that is why I also mentioned that he was the leading tackler on defense.

He also frequently made more tackles than Skalski and Jones in game where either 2 of them or all of them played.

Referencing the ND game for Spector, Venables, or Simpson is misleading because they were basically the only 3 LBs that played in the game. All 3 played near 80 plays and were gassed in the 4th quarter and struggling with keeping their legs under them for tackles. People only remember the end of that game defensively, so they all get a bad wrap from that ending.

I understand the projections for the younger players, but I just don't get why you go after the guy who performed the best at the position to take a seat.

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Re: Absolutely, Bentley needs to play...

[1]
Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 11:46 AM
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I totally get that. I have been pleasantly surprised by Spector to be honest. And like I said, especially at the beginning of the year he flashed as much or more than Skalski. I have seen lots of negative chatter about Spector and even more for Skalski. I find that odd. Missing Mike Jones and waiting on some of these young guys to develop has been huge. And I really think we are just spoiled in the recent past with stellar DE/DL play. Tyler Davis being hurt and significantly lesser production from the DL as a whole over the past couple years has made our LB's look worse than they are and also has exposed our back end more. Yes, we are still being disruptive behind the LOS but nothing like in 2018. Next year I genuinely expect us to be able to pin our ears back and play fast everywhere.

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Re: Absolutely, Bentley needs to play...

[2]
Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 12:22 PM
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I completely agree.

When the '17 and '18 defenses are shown in clips the major thing that stands out is that many times they were able to play the run or the pass with just the 4 up front. Basically all the LBs had to do was look for RB slipping out or waiting to clean up just a little trash on a scramble by the QB.

That let the LBs have so much freedom in where they lined up and what they decided to do after the snap.

This past season we had to keep the LBs in standard position and have them read because we were inconsistent on the front end.

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Ah, this is what I was looking for.

[2]
Posted: Jan 20, 2021, 6:32 PM
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Loads of talent on the roster. Lots of experience too. Maybe the most experience Defense returning Venables has ever had?

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Lots of experience, but we need some better depth


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 8:36 PM
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at LB. We have loads of "potential", but in actual play, there was a huge dropoff when Skalski was missing. We need some of the youngsters to step up, Jake Venables plays his heart out, but he has just about maximized his athletic ability, and cannot really hang with the big boys in that regard.

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Re: Lots of experience, but we need some better depth


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 9:38 PM
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76er® said:

at LB. We have loads of "potential", but in actual play, there was a huge dropoff when Skalski was missing. We need some of the youngsters to step up, Jake Venables plays his heart out, but he has just about maximized his athletic ability, and cannot really hang with the big boys in that regard.


Troll!!!

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

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Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:32 AM
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One of my biggest hopes is that we find better safeties on our depth chart this year. I’m gonna get flamed for this I’m sure, but when Nolan turner is your best safety it’s a big problem. He’s a solid player but should be a solid backup on a team like Clemson, not a starter. Zanders looks like a child, both physically and mentally, playing with grown men. He may be the worst starting safety we’ve ever had at Clemson. If this position cannot get better I fear we are still going to have some huge issues defensively next season regardless of the fact that our entire defense is returning.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:58 AM
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If you think Zanders is even remotely close to being the worst safety we have had at Clemson, then you must have started watching Clemson play 5 years ago.

Even then, I'm not sure you would be correct.

He was a true sophomore, who beat out a group of freshmen and sophomores to win the position.

He also just had sort of surgery which seems to confirm that he finished the season playing with some sort of injury.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

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Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 11:48 AM
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Please give me an argument for a worse starting safety in the last five years since, even then you aren’t sure I would be correct. I will work back 15 years for fun and since I do have a little bit of free time this morning.

2005 - Jamaal Fudge and CJ Gaddis/Michael Hamlin
2006 - Michael Hamlin and Chris Clemmons
2007 - Same as 2006
2008 - Same
2009 - Deandre McDaniel and Sadat Chambers/Rashard Hall
2010 - Deandre McDaniel and Rashard Hall
2011 - Rashard Hall and Jonathan Meeks
2012 - Jonathan Meeks and Xavier Brewer
2013 - Jayron Kearse and Robert Smith
2014 - same
2015 - Jayron Kearse and TJ Green
2016 - Jadar Johnson and Van Smith
2017 - Van Smith and Tanner Muse
2018 - Kvon Wallace and Tanner Muse
2019 - same

Who could you say with and honest belief that zanders is better than on that list?

He’s slim, average athleticism for a safety (at best), average speed, and below average ball skills.

Please save the “you’ve only been watching Clemson football for five years argument”, it’s adorable even though ridiculous.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 12:55 PM
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Hall and Meeks were absolutely terrible to finish the 2011 season.

Hall was much better when he was younger, but he could hardly run by the end of his career due to a knee injury. (Zanders' recent surgery means you can't withdraw injury from part of this discussion.)

Meeks was not only part of that 2011 group but was a starter on a 2012 team that gave up 240 yards/game passing which was the most in the entire range you set by over 20 yards.

This year's group was a part of the third most ypg passing at 214 ypg and Zanders missed one or two of the games where we allowed a lot of yards passing. 2011 was 217 ypg.

For all of his intangibles, Robert Smith (and I really like him) was slow, nonathletic and couldn't cover down the field.

Van Smith got destroyed on TNET until the very end of his career for his lack of awareness and lack of coverage skills. OJ Howard would like a word on Van Smith (See how easy that is to pick out a big play against a really good team?).

Zanders honestly plays a lot like a young Tanner Muse, who we saw improve a lot late in his career but still was never thought of as a coverage safety.

In all of that, I am agreeing that we need to improve our safety above all else heading into next season.

However, rather than stating that the position needs to improve you chose to single out one young player who was in and out of the lineup for different reasons throughout the season.

That's weak and lazy on your part to choose a scapegoat and call him the worst to ever play his position in a Tiger uniform.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[2]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 4:23 PM
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I would agree on almost every point you made, until the very end. I did call out the entire group by stating that Nolan turner being our best safety is a problem. Also, I did not say he was the worst at his position to ever play for Clemson, I said he may be the worst starting safety to ever play at Clemson. Did I get a little personal saying he looked like a child playing with men? Maybe, but that doesn’t mean it’s not true. Tanner muse, while having the stiffest hips in America, was blazing fast. Zanders isn’t in his hemisphere from a speed perspective. The issue isn’t just his athleticism, speed, or consistently being out of position. It’s all of it combined that makes it hard for me to think of another STARTING safety that was that bad. Again I am calling out the entire unit.. if he is the best we have that’s a problem, both recruiting and developing and we need to address it.

With all of that being said if Zanders is a starter this next year I hope after the CFP Final, Zanders has had an All ACC season and you throw this thread in my face. Time will tell.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 10:50 AM
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Zanders and Muse line up better than you think when comparing 1st and 2nd years on the team.

I have no idea what Zanders' injury was that kept him out of some games or if it affected his movement, but he was billed as a guy that flies around the field and needs to learn a little coming off of his freshman season.

Now after his sophomore season he is all of a sudden too slow and too weak.

People never accused Muse of being weak, but many accused him of being too slow to cover people until they realized how fast he was and that he struggled to turn his hips to stay with WRs.

I also think part of Zanders problem, just like Muse, is that it was easy to come in at the end of a game as a freshman and chase the ball with reckless abandon. It's much tougher to be the last line of defense in crunch time and to fly around while also reading all of your keys.

If he looked much slower this season, the idea of playing meaningful snaps and the team counting on him may have made him think more which will slow down any athlete.

I think if he is healthy and if the game slows down for him, we will see a much more athletic looking Zanders next season.

Again, none of this means that I don't think we need better safeties or safety play. We always need better players everywhere and safety play was a weak spot.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 11:51 AM
    Reply

Also, I did not argue he did not win the job, that’s my bigger point. If we can’t find or develop better talent, we are headed for big issues again from that position.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[2]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:34 AM
    Reply

Hopefully Jake Venables isn’t 2nd string ?????

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:34 AM
    Reply

Hopefully Jake Venables isn’t 2nd string ?????

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:36 AM
    Reply

And Zanders isn’t 1st string ?????

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[3]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 12:11 PM
    Reply

We have to get faster in the secondary, especially at safety! the Oline has to be better and the middle 3 need lots of work! It doesn't matter who plays RB if the Oline is as bad as it was this season. When #9 is getting hit in the backfield 3 out of every 4 touches try someone else up front!

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 4:39 PM
    Reply

So I see NO Cade Stewart???? I'm not trying to be a @#$%, but PLEASE tell me there was NO mistake/typo??!?! PLEASE say Cade Stewart WONT be a starter next year on our o-line!?!??!

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Thanks Everyone who has contributed

[2]
Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 11:48 AM
    Reply

Really appreciate everyone's insight!

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[2]
Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 2:24 PM
    Reply

Ngata will be challenging for a starting spot, think Mike Williams after his freshman season. He was hurt this year but make no mistake he is the most athletically gifted at high pointing the ball & coming down with it.

He would have broke out this season had he been healthy.

Ruke Orhorhoro will be 2nd string in a breakout season, kid has incredible talent that just needed development in my opinion.

2021 white level member link

“Let’s make the others want to be like us” Dabo Swinney!!

The best is yet to come!! I’m so grateful for Clemson Football going into the 2020’s


Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!

[1]
Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 3:11 PM
    Reply

Really looking forward to seeing what EJ Williams can do after one year under his belt.
Hope Xavier Thomas comes back with something to prove.

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Re: Mock Football Depth Chart - Wowzers!


Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 4:05 PM
    Reply

One of the best threads I've seen in a while.

Just to keep it going, here are my random thoughts from the various replies:

* Jamaal Fudge. That's a name from the past.
* Speaking of, we need another Safety in the mold of Michael Hamlin. Isn't he or wasn't he an assistant on the staff?
* Regarding the questions toward Spector, it's just like when a team has a veteran QB starting with an elite young backup right behind him. Any mistake the veteran makes, the fans are ready to see the youngster take over. Personally, I see both sides of the coin with Spector. He might be a bit slower defending against elite players, but he can lay the wood as well.
* I think I read somewhere else that Case Stewart is likely not returning? Maybe someone else can verify.

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[2]
Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 4:07 PM
    Reply

*Cade

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Posted: Jan 22, 2021, 8:22 PM
    Reply

We got the number 1 center in the country Brian Bresee’s best friend. We’ll be ok. I wish we could have landed Walker Parks teammate too.

2021 white level member link

“Let’s make the others want to be like us” Dabo Swinney!!

The best is yet to come!! I’m so grateful for Clemson Football going into the 2020’s


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