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Topic: I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship
Replies: 27   Last Post: Jan 30, 2020, 5:52 AM by: 8992Tiger
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I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 11:00 AM
 

issue. At the Lexington County Gamecock club baseball kick-off dinner. I live in West Columbia. Wife and MIL are Gamecock fans. I asked him about Vanderbilt giving academic scholarships to baseball players. He said it was true and that it accounted for Vandy's baseball success. Vandy gives academic and financial aid to its baseball players beyond athletic scholarships. Vandy gets away with it because it is a private school. I asked Kingston if SC could do the same. He said "no." So I assume Clemson can't either. Makes me wonder about Duke, Miami, and ND.

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Re: I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship

[3]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 11:11 AM
 

Thanks for the info. innovative way to get good information.

Good luck with your family problems.

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I am the only Clemson fan on that side of the family.

[4]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 11:52 AM
 

They are very nice, loving, and accepting. Particularly recently.

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Re: I am the only Clemson fan on that side of the family.


Posted: Jan 30, 2020, 3:40 AM
 

I think this would be an example of being "unequally yoked."

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Re: I am the only Clemson fan on that side of the family.


Posted: Jan 30, 2020, 3:44 AM
 

Must have been a tough 5-year stretch before the current great 6-year stretch !! ??

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If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


Re: I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship

[3]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 11:14 AM
 

This is why the athletic department is much more patient with Monte than most fans seem to be.

The private schools have found a loophole and are exploiting it.

Vandy is not the only one doing it but they are the most obvious to point to with their high level of success.

The major advantage is in getting top level recruits on campus.

Clemson, I believe, lost 3 or 4 players in the draft out of their high school recruits last season. Clemson has a firm 11.7 to offer over 35 players in the program. Players without academic money to supplement their baseball scholarship are typically paying between 50-75% of their tuition, room, and board. It's tough to turn down a decent signing bonus and then ask your family to pay $10-15,000 a year for minimum of 3 years.

Vanderbilt loses some recruits to the draft also, but for example their freshman who threw the no hitter in the postseason last year turned down top round money to come to school because he knew he would be on full scholarship and it wouldn't cost him any money.

It's a HUGE advantage.

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Re: I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship


Posted: Jan 29, 2020, 11:29 PM
 

Patient with Monte but Jack had to deal with the same thing.

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Re: I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship

[2]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 11:37 AM
 

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I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship [2]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020 11:00 AM
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issue. At the Lexington County Gamecock club baseball kick-off dinner. I live in West Columbia. Wife and MIL are Gamecock fans. I asked him about Vanderbilt giving academic scholarships to baseball players. He said it was true and that it accounted for Vandy's baseball success. Vandy gives academic and financial aid to its baseball players beyond athletic scholarships. Vandy gets away with it because it is a private school. I asked Kingston if SC could do the same. He said "no." So I assume Clemson can't either. Makes me wonder about Duke, Miami, and ND.

DUH. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. THIS SUBJECT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT ON TIGERNET FOR YEARS. BASEBALL IS NOT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD BY ANY MEANS

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Not sure how it works now...


Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 12:00 PM
 

but when I was a student athlete at Clemson from 1981 to 1985 for a non-revenue sport, the team received ten scholarships for the 30 players on the roster. In order to stretch the dollars, most players received a third of a scholarship (which, back in the day, was about $850.00 per year). Some players also received academic scholarships in varying amounts. Very few of us, if any, were receiving
enough scholarship money (from both the athletic side and the academic side) to cover 100% of their tuition, room, and board.

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Re: Not sure how it works now...


Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 12:46 PM
 

Clemson has players on the team on academic scholarship BUT the players have to have the same qualifications as academic scholarship recipients who aren’t athletes.

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Yup...it worked the same way back in the day***


Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 12:48 PM
 



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


the way if works

[1]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 1:27 PM
 

I actually asked Tim Corbin about this when I saw him in Nashville Airport.

The way it works is that Vanderbilt has an endowment over 6 BILLIOM dollars. Clemson is like 700 million.

With its huge endowment Vanderbilt can give all students whose parents make below a certain amount free tuition, room and board etc. Since it is available to all students it can be used for athletes too. In essence it gets them around 11.7 scholarship "cap".

Nothing says Clemson could not do this but just not sure we have those resources to apply to a non-revenue sport.

This has also been big boost to UVA with there huge endowment. As many of you may recall UVA was about to drop baseball but then went this route and became a power.

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Definitely an advantage to be well endowed***

[4]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 1:52 PM
 



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That's what she said !!!!***

[1]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 1:54 PM
 



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: That's what she said !!!!***

[3]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 2:04 PM
 



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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Is this real?

[2]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 3:44 PM
 

.

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MODS!***

[3]
Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 3:46 PM
 



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Re: MODS!*** But .. but ... I thought ..you were a ...


Posted: Jan 30, 2020, 3:48 AM
 

... MOD !! ?? -<img border=">

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If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


You mean someone's daughter said that?***


Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 6:12 PM
 



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As a private school aren’t they also allowed special “academic” scholarships?


Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 2:08 PM
 

Like a donor specifying the academic scholarship is for athletes without a fully funded athletic scholarship?

I am sure that’s not possible at a public school.

Despite how well funded Vandy’s endowment may be it would seem some sort of exclusion of hanky panky is involved. Unlike football players baseball players are more likely to come from a capable financial background and I doubt they are academically much better than the average student.

So how does Vandy fund all these extra scholarships without the same rules for the rest of their student body - which would use up that endowment very quickly?

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good point


Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 3:00 PM
 

Definitely a fair point. I just know that is how "technically works". I saw somewhere, can't remember the exact figure, the family income below which you get the "aid". If I recall it was like $100,000, which seems crazy. I know its Vandy but still the percentage of US population making over $100,000 baseball family or not is very low. So got to be some details we don't or they don't want us to know.

My son is on a football scholarship at Furman and both they and Wofford said they could not "stack" academic and athletic money. Maybe that is a IAA thing or an internal policy.

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Re: good point

[1]
Posted: Jan 30, 2020, 2:34 AM
 

The scale starts around $50k (under pay nothing) and doesn’t phase out until $350k. You can make $300k/yr and still get financial aid at Vanderbilt. But that’s purely based on income. They look at equity, cash, and savings too.

Here’s their calculator if you’re curious:

https://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/net-price-calculator.php

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Re: As a private school aren’t they also allowed special “academic” scholarships?


Posted: Jan 30, 2020, 2:20 AM
 

It’s math. Vanderbilt has a $6.4 BILLION endowment. They have less than 7000 students at $65,000 a year. It cost $455,000,000 to pay for the entire student body for a year. If Vanderbilt made no money, collected no revenue, and received no new donations they would still only need a return 7.6% on their endowment to pay for everything. They are not worried about how much financial aid they are giving their students.

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Re: I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship


Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 3:58 PM
 

On the flip side...at $60,000+ per year to attend Vandy, without supplemental scholarship money these private schools would be at a severe disadvantage to public schools whose tuition is lower.

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Clemson and Scar could both do it


Posted: Jan 28, 2020, 6:03 PM
 

if they seriously changed their tuition structure.

Vandy can do it because they are not doing anything special for athletes. ALL students are eligible for the same financial aid.

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Re: Clemson and Scar could both do it


Posted: Jan 29, 2020, 11:51 PM
 

Sorry but I don’t believe that. I doubt baseball players have higher average academic credentials than the average Vandy student. So if Vandy has 11.5 scholarships for 30 players and academic scholarships are making up the difference the average baseball player has an academic scholarship paying 2/3rds of their cost. I doubt the average Vandy student has a scholarship covering 2/3rds of their cost.

They must have some crazy scholarships (left handed people from Macon GA, etc) in order to funnel more scholarship $s to baseball players.

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Re: I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship

[4]
Posted: Jan 30, 2020, 2:11 AM
 

This is a gross simplification because it probably isn’t worth the time to get into the details.

1) A scholarship is not the same as financial aid. Stop conflating the terms. Vandy baseball has 11.7 scholarships to give like everyone else. Period. Vandy, and other elite academic schools give out very few academic scholarships. Any that they do, that were awarded to an athlete on athletic scholarship, would have to very strict, objective criteria available to all students. Like Palmetto Fellows, Hope or Life scholarships are available to athletes at Clemson from the state of S.C. Anything less is a clear violation of NCAA rules.

2) cost of attendance at Vanderbilt is on a sliding scale based on family income as verified by the FAFSA application. This applies to every student who attends Vanderbilt. If everyone in the next incoming class comes from a family making less than $60k then absolutely no one will pay tuition in that class and it will be paid from the endowment. Yes, this applies to baseball players. It applies to everyone at the school. It also applies at every Ivy League school, Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, and many other elite academic schools.

3) being a private school has nothing to do with it. Public and private schools have the same agreements with the NCAA. There are not two sets of rules.

4) Clemson or S.C. absolutely could but as a practical matter won’t. The offering has to be available to all students. Neither Clemson nor S.C. has endowments large enough to cover the cost of attendance if it suddenly had to cover 1/2 of their student body.

5) none of this is new. The 11.7 limit has been in place since 1991. Sliding scale cost of attendance has been around since I went to college, which is longer than that. While inflation in cost of attendance makes free school a dramatically better value now than 30 years ago, college inflation actually peaked in the early 2000s. Why is Vanderbilt only just now reaping the benefit of programs that have been exploitable for 30 years since the last scholarship rules change?

Constantly whining about this should be beneath our program and mostly seems intended to deny Corbin the accolades he deserves as a coach and lower expectations for our own program. It isn’t going to change because there is nothing against the rules about it. If you want Clemson to do the same start giving heavily to the general endowment and encourage anyone else you know to do the same. That is the only way the playing field will ever be leveled.

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Re: I spoke with Mark Kingston last night about the scholarship


Posted: Jan 30, 2020, 5:52 AM
 

Thanks for the informative post.

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