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Topic: Today's bowl era we live in.
Replies: 23   Last Post: Dec 28, 2020, 11:51 PM by: Lowcntry_Tiger®
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Today's bowl era we live in.

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Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 7:00 PM
 

Any bowl other than the playoffs has become unimportant, or even detrimental, to NFL bound players.

NC - playing in a major bowl - Top two RB's, the guys who ran for 568 yards against Miami are opting out to prepare for the NFL.

FL - playing in a major bowl - Top 4 WR's are opting out, preparing for the NFL.

As an FSU fan, I will enjoy watching Kyle Trask throw to no one anybody has ever heard of before. But, as a college football fan, this stinks.

Note: I'm not blaming the players for making the decisions. They went to FL )Or NC) to prepare for the NFL. They didn't go because they love the school or feel an obligation to it or their teammates. They are acting like a minor league baseball player who is called up to the majors while his minor league team still has games left. Can't blame them for that. College football is just the minor leagues for them.

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Just getting back to the good ol' days

[2]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 7:05 PM
 

Used to be they decided the national champion after the regular season ended. Bowl games were just glorified exhibitions..

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.

[2]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 7:05 PM
 

Seems like if you aren’t a playoff team, then expect opt outs. There’s no way to measure conference strength any more in bowls because too many teams have their top players sitting. I don’t know if the playoffs caused this effect or what it is, but it’s a relatively new phenomenon and growing more rampant each year. There will have to be some other motivation to play now.

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Only the NFL-bound stars and starters will "opt out"

[1]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 7:08 PM
 

Players looking to earn a starting spot or a scholarship next year will not.

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BretFSU - usually agree. But, I don't here

[1]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 7:11 PM
 

bretfsu® said:

Any bowl other than the playoffs has become unimportant, or even detrimental, to NFL bound players.

NC - playing in a major bowl - Top two RB's, the guys who ran for 568 yards against Miami are opting out to prepare for the NFL.

FL - playing in a major bowl - Top 4 WR's are opting out, preparing for the NFL.

As an FSU fan, I will enjoy watching Kyle Trask throw to no one anybody has ever heard of before. But, as a college football fan, this stinks.

Note: I'm not blaming the players for making the decisions. They went to FL )Or NC) to prepare for the NFL. They didn't go because they love the school or feel an obligation to it or their teammates. They are acting like a minor league baseball player who is called up to the majors while his minor league team still has games left. Can't blame them for that. College football is just the minor leagues for them.




Bret I tend to agree to most of your post and have given you many TU's. I am going to give you a TU here as well.
But, I can blame the players in this situation. Let me elaborate and you tell me if it makes sense, okay.
The most critical of injuries I see happening in football is: "non-contact injuries"! Meaning an injury you can get while training(running routes, doing cone drills, etc.) You see guys banged up maybe with a concussion(on occasion but becoming less and less prevelant) from hits on the football field.
The only way to get better at football is to: "play football"!

If you have played football all your life and all season - to me it makes zero sense to not practice more. Cut more. Block more. Get off blocks more. All of that in order to get ready for the NFL draft. Again, it can't be about not wanting to get injured, not when players are often just running or moving in a certain way when they get devastating injuries.
Unless them not playing is about them hiring an agent Bret - it makes no sense to me why you wouldn't "play more football in order to get ready to play at the height of the game against other elite players in the NFL"!

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Re: BretFSU - usually agree. But, I don't here

[1]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 7:21 PM
 

The motivation to play has been and will always be: "to prepare for next season by getting more sanctioned practices in"!

Coaches want to make bowl games whether they make the CFP or not because it allows more practice time. It also rewards kids with "hopefully" a week or more of R & R and not just a football game.
For Seniors not going to the NFL - it's a cherry on top. For underclassmen it's a chance to impress the coaches for the spots that will be open(by out going class).
It also propels you into Spring practice. Hopefully, you build momemtum. It is also a chance to get some National Exposure as well for recruiting purposes.
A.D.'s and Coaches still want them and will continue pushing for them. The fan base also can see this as "a reason to spend the week in a bowl location to follow their team"!
Tourism spots around the country who needed to drum up business during the slow winter months have always wanted those tourist dollars. Many fans and fan bases look forward to their team making it to a bowl.

I said all that to say - players will opt out who prep for the NFL - but bowls make too many people too much money(in non-pandemic years). And, they help coaches out evaluating young talent and getting them a preview of "next years team"! Great coaching tool that coaches themselves will want to keep.

You only get better at football by playing football. There are pick up basketball games at the Y. You can go hit a baseball - while maybe not running bases and such, etc. Pitch a whole bunch on your own to sharpen your skill, etc. Kick around a soccer ball and such. But, American football, is much harder to simulate and will require other people.

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 7:20 PM
 

These players are being extremely shortsighted. And I reject that college football is the minor leagues. Why? Because the overwhelming majority of these kids would never get a college education without athletics, without scholarships. The way out of poverty for so many of these kids, especially the black kids, is not pro sports but a college education. Why? Because only a handful of these kids are going to get drafted. Even if a kid beats the odds and makes it to the NFL there’s no guarantee he will be there very long because there’s always somebody trying to take his job not to mention injuries.

Any kid in college, especially football and basketball, that gets an athletic scholarship and doesn’t take full advantage of that for a degree as well as corporate and alumni contacts he’s not only cheating himself but his family.

This is why paying players is a huge mistake. They are already getting paid in many many ways. but paying football and basketball players will mean all players have to get paid in every sport which will force schools to cut even more sports teams meaning less scholarships to minorities both male and female which means the people screaming for players to get paid will actually do more harm than good because far less minorities and women will get the opportunity for a free education and all the other benefits that comes with that for them and their family.

All of this is greed and very shortsighted. But then that’s why people from certain communities don’t get ahead to begin with. They don’t think long term and they don’t think strategically.

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.

[1]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 7:28 PM
 

Lowcntry_Tiger® I gave you a TU because I agreed with the majority of your post.
But, that last sentence. You just grouped "people from certain communities" in this negative not strategic and forward thinking group! Many in that group do think ahead and have Merrill Lynch and Ameritrade, etc. I know some from "certain communities". All encompassing is where in my opinion I disagree with you as you don't know all people in "certain communities" and can't say with any certainty what they do or don't do or what they believe in principle.

Otherwise, I agree with every word!

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.

[3]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 8:00 PM
 

Actually you’re proving my point for me. You’re making the classic mistake of thinking a few exceptions disproves the rule. Those exceptions Prove that by making the right choices you can overcome but the reason so few do is because of their choices.

And for the record I’m sure people are thinking those comments were racist but one of the things I was thinking about when I made those comments was JD Vance and Hillbilly Elegy.

But since I brought race up I’ll leave you with this. Charles Barkley speaks to a lot of high school kids. He has said that the last thing he usually does is ask the kids to raise their hand if they want to be a professional athlete. Then he says raise your hand if you want to be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer. He said 90% of the time the black kids hold up their hand to be a pro athlete while the white kids hold up their hands to be doctors lawyers and engineers. He said the black community is brainwashing kids into thinking they can only be professional athletes or entertainers.

This is not only cultural but political. Look at the way the mainstream media and people on the left, the Democrats, and others attack women and minorities that are successful and claim to be conservative. They only praise women and minorities that are successful when they are liberals and vote Democrat. Look at the way the media is going crazy over Joe Biden picking An all female media team. Never mind the fact that Donald Trump has all women for his White House press corps as does Pence and the first lady.

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 8:55 PM
 

Lowcntry_Tiger® I didn't take your comments to be racist. I did think they were trying to encompass a whole group you don't know about. Even people in those communities can't speak to "knowing what the majority think"!

All the political stuff you can have.

Regarding the thinking small phenomenon it's not just in "certain communities" it's pretty much a phenomenon of society. I.e. if you grew up with pharmacist parents you are highly likely to have interest in that field or a related field(probably be a doctor so you can one up your parents, LOL)! Same with being a truck driver, warehouse worker, fireman, teacher, etc.

If Barkley ask that and notices that why keep asking? What's the point of the exercise? Where did you get that information from BTW? Because, I do not think I helped prove your point at all. I think you may not understand what I am getting at. Which I will chalk up to not expressing it well enough "ON MY PART"!
So, with that, I again just say I agree with all but your last sentence in your 1st comment on this thread. I just do not agree a few examples no matter who it's from gives someone to frame it how you did. Because, there are much smaller scale success stories other than the super rich. Everyday "people in certain communities" who are successful who work everyday for example!

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 9:44 PM
 

I’m not asking this question to be an #######. I’m asking seriously. Did you go to college? Have you ever taken an economics class? Have you ever taken a biology class? Have you ever taken a sociology class? A psychology class? A political science class?

Social scientist do what I described every single day. You look at small groups based on statistical probability with a sample size big enough to represent the entire group because you can’t study the entire group but you can do sampling. But we also have other statistical measures like high school graduation rates college graduation rates career choice. I mean this is all rocksolid science I’m talking about here. So we Can talk about groups and it’s done every day by scientists and academics and yes politicians all for very important reasons..

Tim Bourret’s dad what was an engineer and a NASA scientist. He had no interest in any of that. He loves sports and the academic in college environment. He became a sports information director and has written books.

Jewish and Asian cultures put a lot of pressure on their children to be doctors lawyers musicians things of that nature because they want them to take Advantage of what America has to offer because of the historic cultural persecution they have survived as a group of people. But most people let their kids be whatever their kids want to be.

Your comments about Charles Barkley were also ignorant and contradict what you’re saying when you argue against me. You said everybody’s different. We can’t make assumptions. If you believe that then why would you say Charles Barkley should stop asking the question. You contradicted yourself. If you believe there can be no assumptions then Barkley should ask that question each time and not expect the same answer.

Did you seriously think I would make a Specific comment from someone like Charles Barkley and pull it out of my ###? Just google Charles Barkley and our kids are being brainwashed and you’ll see him making those comments in numerous interviews over the years. I could’ve picked from a dozen different videos but this is probably the most concise.

https://youtu.be/zGFWBddzaAw


Message was edited by: Lowcntry_Tiger®


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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 10:23 PM
 

Lowcntry_Tiger® Yes, I have taken all of those exact courses! I am educated enough to know though - most people are still "aware it cannot possibly demonstrate enough of the majority"!
My question about that specific thing is: where did you get that data about the "certain group"? Who was in the micro-group studied? Again, you can manipulate anything, "scientific studies included"! Back in the day there were experiments being done that suggested black kids couldn't read and people who were well respected "scientific in their supposed evidence gathering" published information via books or informational leaflets that said so. That is clearly not true!
Said, "they can't handle mathematical equations that were complex"! Not true at all. I was on a virtual graduation from Clemson of a black female who was in one of the engineering programs! And, she rocked it all the way through. Yet, folks had "what you would call proof" at one point that suggested that was impossible.
Look, the point is, you can't talk in terms of whole groups! You did - I didn't agree with that one part. You have insisted on making it all this other stuff and even tried to insult my intelligence. I get it now though.

You have a nice day now!

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 10:36 PM
 

No. I was very careful not to insult your intelligence. That’s why I said I’m not being an ####### I’m asking an honest question because I know a lot of people on here did not go to college. I’m not an elitist. I was the first person in my family to graduate from my four year college. I have a degree from Clemson but I also know there are hundreds of things you can do and get rich without even having a high school diploma.

But you’re are just flat wrong. Social scientist, economist, political scientist, biologist, mathematicians, they do exactly what I described every single day. They make assumptions about groups based on sample size.

The examples you’re pointing out that’s crap from over 50 years ago when people were racist and trying to hold people down with racist ideas. I’m talking about today. I’m talking about the modern world. You living in the 50s.

Some of it has to do with race. Some of it has to do with IQ. Some of it has to do with culture. Some of it has to do with geography.

I suggest you buy and read a book by Jared diamond titled guns germs and steel. It is a book and a video series that you can buy as a set on Amazon. You can also go to YouTube and search guns germs and steel and it was produced by National Geographic with Jared diamond. It’s extremely enlightening and educational. I’m not sure how many parts they have on YouTube there are a couple of 1 to 2 hour video clips that edit it down but the best thing is to read the book and get the multiple DVDs that come with the books set.

https://www.google.com/search?q=guns+germs+and+steel&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 10:46 PM
 


No. I was very careful not to insult your intelligence. That’s why I said I’m not being an ####### I’m asking an honest question because I know a lot of people on here did not go to college. I’m not an elitist. I was the first person in my family to graduate from my four year college. I have a degree from Clemson but I also know there are hundreds of things you can do and get rich without even having a high school diploma.

But you’re are just flat wrong. Social scientist, economist, political scientist, biologist, mathematicians, they do exactly what I described every single day. They make assumptions about groups based on sample size.

The examples you’re pointing out that’s crap from over 50 years ago when people were racist and trying to hold people down with racist ideas. I’m talking about today. I’m talking about the modern world. You living in the 50s.

Some of it has to do with race. Some of it has to do with IQ. Some of it has to do with culture. Some of it has to do with geography.

I suggest you buy and read a book by Jared diamond titled guns germs and steel. It is a book and a video series that you can buy as a set on Amazon. You can also go to YouTube and search guns germs and steel and it was produced by National Geographic with Jared diamond. It’s extremely enlightening and educational. I’m not sure how many parts they have on YouTube there are a couple of 1 to 2 hour video clips that edit it down but the best thing is to read the book and get the multiple DVDs that come with the books set.

https://www.google.com/search?q=guns+germs+and+steel&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari




Roger That!

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 10:51 PM
 

you were doing ok till you got to this post... you have no idea what motivates or doesn't motivate any kid from any place. Your making statements that you previously boo-hoo'd... Barkley was simply an observation, you connecting non existent dots.

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 11:51 PM
 

What the #### are you talking about? I’m not connecting the dots? I wasn’t trying to connect any dots. I didn’t put forth a theory and then set out to prove that theory. I just stated the facts as they are and corrected him. Clearly like him you didn’t take a statistics class, or a sociology class, or a biology, anthropology, psychology, etc. etc. because their research is all based on that. Clearly you don’t understand how scientific research works.

FYI I don’t have to know what motivates anyone. It’s not germane to the conversation.. i’m pointing out the realities of the situation. But the factors are myriad which is why I mentioned culture, IQ, education, jobs, geography, etc.

As far as Charles Barkley goes evidently you don’t like the message but I’m pretty sure he’s a bigger authority than you on what’s going on in the black community. And me bringing him up was absolutely positively pertinent to what I was talking about!

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It's the overall self centeredness


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 9:04 PM
 

Of youth sports today and also a reflection of the culture at some programs. I think it's absolutely pathetic the kids at UNC are opting out of probably the biggest bowl game in school history ..shows a complete lack of respect for their coaches and teammates. Mack played it PC with his comments and it is the players decision but says way more about the kids themselves than anything else.

I'm sure if we didn't make playoffs we'd see a couple opt out but Dabo would chime in.

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Re: It's the overall self centeredness

[1]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 9:15 PM
 

ClemfanWV said:

Of youth sports today and also a reflection of the culture at some programs. I think it's absolutely pathetic the kids at UNC are opting out of probably the biggest bowl game in school history ..shows a complete lack of respect for their coaches and teammates. Mack played it PC with his comments and it is the players decision but says way more about the kids themselves than anything else.

I'm sure if we didn't make playoffs we'd see a couple opt out but Dabo would chime in.




Seems like it for sure. I just think these kids are being "bam-boozled" into thinking it's what's best for their career!
Last I checked the NFL draft isn't until April or May(right asking)? The bowl game at the end of December gives a kid time to "finish what they started" in college. Last time I checked you still have to work out and get better "at football" in preparation for the bowl game. So, the idea, you are getting ready for the NFL combine is crazy to me.
It's also "sleazy agents" getting in these kids ears that is causing a bunch of this i.m.o. I can't substantiate that - but that's my gut feeling!
It doesn't make sense in terms of timing! Guys use to play the bowl game - play the senior bowl and still make the combine! What changed to where the need to skip your "brothers in football battle"?
You letting those guys down and it isn't right especially given the fact "you can get hurt just practicing and getting ready for the combine just as easy as you can in a game"! Again, most injuries I see now a days seem like non-contact type injuries that can happen at any time. Let alone during a football game. And oh by the way - you would have played at least 3 years of college football w/o getting hurt - why would this game be different?
Timing? You will still be sore and not able to perform at the combine? Pah lease - they know if you were in a late December or early January bowl game. If your film is good enough - it simply won't matter anyway!

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Re: It's the overall self centeredness

[3]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 9:36 PM
 

Luginbill on a Packer and Durham said if these kids think NFL people don’t notice these things they are greatly mistaken. It does speak to their character and their work ethic. Their ability to be there for their teammates. Finishing what they started and fulfilling their commitments.


Message was edited by: Lowcntry_Tiger®


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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 9:25 PM
 

We, the college fans, players and supporters have for DECADES been socializing the NFL's BILLIONAIRES...

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subsidizing. ???


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 10:39 PM
 

AutoCorrect is a #####!

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.

[1]
Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 11:03 PM
 

was listening to Packer this afternoon on this subject and think these guys miss the point that schools are investing in these players, Scholarships are the tip of the iceberg. Sticking with education, every student athlete that needs one gets a tutor, they are academically monitored and given everything they need to ensure they are academically taken care of. Lets go with $100k total cost (that not how much they make but how much the cost) for each tutor, they can do what 10-12 students. That means the investment in that kid is worth $10k, add in the administrative costs of overseeing that program and you can add $1-2k more per year. Nitrition, these kids do not have a single worry about what they get to eat. 24-7/365 they have access to food. No idea what that costs but it's not free. Strength training, these kids have access to not only world class training facilities but strength coaches as well. They are not NFL ready without the program. That is easily another couple of thousand per student athlete. These are investments in the players, they should demand (contractually) they play full seasons or drop their scholarships and repay the school the cost of preparing them for life after college in whatever capacity that is.

It's mostly paid for by the supporters, boosters and fans in the stands.

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 11:22 PM
 

This goes back to yesterday's discussions with quozzel post on reformatting the playoffs and expansion. Good insights and args on both sides. For and against.

Won't rehash it here but something in the near future has to happen. I can understand this year, and especially losing record teams opting out to play at all. However, how far in the future (post covid) will we start seeing teams opt out. Especially if it's close to break even or losing revenue with no perceived benefit.

I will say all bowls should be vacation destinations or cities with a dome. Already have just 2000 avid fans and no local support. I love the bowls and look forward to each one. However, conference tie ins have to go.

In Quozzel thread, I like the idea of top 16 playoff but I expanded it to the g5 conference champs not in top 16 along with 17-32 ranked teams have their own nit playoffs.

Bottom line, change has got to happen. We can't continue down this path or we will ruin college football and end up with minor leagues or a farm system with. No bowls other than the playoffs.

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Re: Today's bowl era we live in.


Posted: Dec 28, 2020, 11:44 PM
 

Total gibberish!

Football is not being ruined. People are complaining because the same teams are playing for championships every year. Guess what? It’s that way in every sport. College and pro. Always has been. It’s not the system. It’s the great coaching. It’s the culture. It’s recruiting.

Tiger Woods won roughly 25% of the golf tournaments he played in. No one has ever come anywhere close to that. There were people saying tigers is destroying golf. Tigers ruining golf. Kids all over the world started playing golf because of Tiger. Everybody made more money because of tiger. Tiger was the best thing that happened to golf in the last 20 years.

UCLA and John Wooden dominated college basketball. Nobody thought UCLA and John Wooden would ruin college basketball. That’s ridiculous!

Excellence makes other people work harder! Excellence makes everyone better! Watering things down never helps anyone! This is nonsense by people that don’t like that they are just not being involved because they are not putting forth the effort or they’re not good enough!

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