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Replies: 46
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110%er [5014]
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Like "lambs to the slaughter house"....
Jun 27, 2012, 5:16 PM
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I am not sure which bothers me the most.
1.The fact that the Clemson BOT, by its own hand , appears to be placing Clemson in a Basketball first conference for the long haul.
or
2. that so many people that I have always thought were reasonably intelligent individuals can't see what is being done to the school that they love ..right in plain daylight.
Outside of the, - Big -PAC -SEC -Big12 , all other conferences were just relegated to lap dogs.
All these conferences have to do at his point is go to a 9 games conference schedule and exclude the Clemson’s, GTs, Boise St and etc from their OOC schedule.
That "instantly" cripples the lap dog conferences football first schools from being in the mix with the best 4 scenario.
That hasn't been the case in the past! All the examples you guys provide of how it has happened in the past, were pre -super conferences.
Those teams were playing 7 and 8 game conference schedules and needed the big OOC games for funding. Duh.....in the new world they don't.
Any football first school with aspirations of competing for championships over the next 20 years had better find their way into one of the big 4 conferences.
I never thought that I would be saying this, but based on what I read here, and what I hear from fellow tiger friends, about have of the tiger nation is content to follow swofford like LAMBS TO THE SLAUGHTER.
5th place conference is the FIRST LOSER, nothing more.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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Again, I ask, how is this NOT an improvement over the
Jun 27, 2012, 5:20 PM
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current system?! Any criticism of this 4-team "playoff" is exponentially applicable to the current BCS format.
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Orange Blooded [2557]
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TU...I'm with you there. I'm not sure how 4 teams having a
Jan 16, 2017, 9:33 PM
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shot to play for the NC instead of 2 gives us worse odds. Mathematically it'd only improve our chances correct? I do understand some of the arguments saying that we may get overlooked, but wasn't that even more of a possibility with the current system? Forgive my ignorance if I'm incorrect.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Again, I ask, how is this NOT an improvement over the
Jun 27, 2012, 5:33 PM
[ in reply to Again, I ask, how is this NOT an improvement over the ] |
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Let me answer your question.
*********Again, I ask, how is this NOT an improvement over the****************
1. Think of a "cyclical world" where "all outside factors remain constant".
2. Conferences rise and fall based on their performance against each other as , kids pan out one place and bust at another.
3. THis cycle is spinning. Few dispute that right this second there are 4 conferences that are in the high end of the cycle and many other conferences that are in the low end of the cycle (big east , ACC , wac, etc)
4. If we could count on the assumption made in the bullet 1 ("all outside factors remain constant"), to remain true, all would be well and the lower end conferences would ride their cycles to the top eventually.
5. But low and behold, the four guys on the up cycle, just stopped the wheel from spinning! They control who gets a chance to compete by simply altering their schedules while they are on top. This is not a tough concept.
It is how Wal-Mart has controlled it's vendors (putting many out of bidness) for decades. (but that is another story)
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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You're overestimating the "sway" of the "other 4"
Jun 27, 2012, 5:59 PM
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conferences. One, you forget that we have a renegotiated TV contract that will be fetching us a pretty penny equal to every other conference but maybe the SEC and two, any difference in money, even in terms of millions of dollars, is negligible. Winning matters. Even in the ACC.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: You're overestimating the "sway" of the "other 4"
Jun 27, 2012, 6:07 PM
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the dollars that you speak of , are fantasy. The new deal is a laugher, not even Swofford can defend it with a straight face. The new deal puts us below all 4 of "major" football conferences. It hurts to say that but the acc is a "major" basketball conference.
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: You're overestimating the "sway" of the "other 4"
Jun 27, 2012, 9:52 PM
[ in reply to You're overestimating the "sway" of the "other 4" ] |
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fact. the big 10 right now is first in money, sec is second and for your information, even with a new contract the acc and bigeast are last. know your facts, it comes in handy when trying to reach the truth.
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Like "lambs to the slaughter house"....
Jun 27, 2012, 5:51 PM
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WIN! thats what we need to do to keep from being a lap dog conference. we are 2-13 as a conference in bcs games. west virginia has more bcs wins than the acc entire conference. as far as how is the playoff system better? it allows 4 teams to PLAY for a title on the field. no one should expect to be included in the nc if you are not one of the 4 best teams! should we ask to be included reguardless if we are one of the best teams? im not saying we should not join another conference, we just need to WIN and quit bitchin and asking for something free, like swofford. we are not in a good position as a school. we have had chances to leave the acc and didnt. alot of blame to go around.
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110%er [5014]
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Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 5:58 PM
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Legal Tiger , answer this question for me.
How are we going to win against the Big4 conference teams, if they choose not to play us?
I think now we have what our biggest bowl deal as a conference is the Orange Bowl against the Big East?
All the big 4 conferences have to do, is get to 16 and stop playing folks outside of that 64!
BINGO NCAA is then out of the picture. There is a new top division run by ESPN and their TV partners.
Some of you would have been standing outside the ark on the day the flood water started rising...dog paddling and laughing at ole' Noah.
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Rock Defender [53]
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think what you state is a bit of a reach***
Jun 27, 2012, 6:09 PM
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 6:10 PM
[ in reply to Legal Tiger answer this question for me? ] |
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ok, i will try to answer your question? we have played sc for the last 3 years and how has that worked for us. how about south florida in the bowl last year? and i wont mention wv in the orange. can we really ask why our conference is not taken serious? florida has not been good lately and they killed fsu. michigan has its way with vt. its not just clemson who has not won. the acc has just plain been bad as far as the national scene is concerned. 2-13 is not good any way you look at it. if we go to another conference we still have to do one thing we havent done, WIN!!! i do agree with you that any school in the acc is in real trouble where football is concerned. especially where money is going to be concerned.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Lead Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 6:27 PM
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LeadTiger, you are avoiding the question. For a cycle to occur the games must be played, correct?
There are up cycles and down cycles. SC is in an up cycle. If they didn't have to play us anymore , how does the cycle come back around?
Yes , I know SC is an extreme example...but when they are in a 16 team league the time may come.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 7:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me? ] |
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how much have you had to drink today? there is absolutely no way the entire atlantic seaboard gets left out because we aren't good enough. look at the acc footprint, swoffie is a da, i concur, but there is entirely to much money and political clout for the doomsday scenario you invision to happen to the acc. on any given day our top teams can play with ANYONE in the country, thing is on any given day our top teams can also lose to any team in the country, which is the biggest difference in us and other conf's. we have to stop losing to lesser teams,at least on an regular cycle. if any of our teams take care of biz, we will be in the mix, if we slip up, we won't .
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 7:56 PM
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2-13 pretty much says it all. thats our bcs record. when do you think we will take care of business? give us another 15 years and i promise we will get better? i would hope so because we would only have to win say 3 times to be better. when one team from the big least has more bcs wins than the entire acc combined someone has been non relevant. but never let facts get in the way of a good argument. to be one of the best 4 teams in the country and play for a nc, you have to play like one. but maybe you can convince the powers that be while you are sober that we should be one of the 4 playoff teams because of who we are and we finally won the acc (better not tell them how long it has been)and maybe better not mention the record we broke by allowing a record 70 in orange bowl. but i guess i should not be such a negative nellie. care for a drink of orange cool-aid?
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110%er [5014]
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 8:13 PM
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how did what happen to the big east? what are you talking about? the acc has now taken fsu,miami,va tech, boston college, and now syracuse and pitt from what conference? and wv is in what conference? hell we have taken all their teams and they are still better then we are!! and if teams leave the acc, who is swofford looking at adding? more big least teams(louisville,uconn, nd, rutgers, s.florida) yet you say i am the one who doesnt understand. care to explain?
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 28, 2012, 3:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me? ] |
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are you comparing the clout of the acc to the big east, in football? to say that a conf. with clemson,fsu, the "u", unc, va. tech, ga. tech,et al will be left out is naive.how many mnc's do these teams have, or top 5's, undefeated or 1 loss seasons ? the acc is just going to have to spend the $ to get the top coaches in, which, finally, is starting to happen, and with the big name coaches, comes big time wins.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 8:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me? ] |
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> how much have you had to drink today? there is
> absolutely no way the entire atlantic seaboard gets
> left out because we aren't good enough. look at the
> acc footprint, swoffie is a da, i concur, but there
> is entirely to much money and political clout for the
> doomsday scenario you invision to happen to the acc.
> on any given day our top teams can play with ANYONE
> in the country, thing is on any given day our top
> teams can also lose to any team in the country, which
> is the biggest difference in us and other conf's. we
> have to stop losing to lesser teams,at least on an
> regular cycle. if any of our teams take care of biz,
> we will be in the mix, if we slip up, we won't .
The big east has already watched while the account and the big 12 neutered them. Connecticut has been up there in good faith investing big money thinking they were OK in the big east. The entire Atlantic seaboard is not in the acc and hopefully Clemson will not be there either.
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 9:09 PM
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who else is going to join the acc in your opinion? what do you refer to as account? we raid the worst conference in the country and they pick up more sorry teams and they are still much better and the process continues! wow!! and we just got killed and had a bowl record 70 points scored on us by a (imagine it if you can) a big east team. but you have trouble understanding that we are the worst conference in the bcs? what other facts can i give you?
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 9:29 PM
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> who else is going to join the acc in your opinion?
> what do you refer to as account? we raid the worst
> conference in the country and they pick up more sorry
> teams and they are still much better and the process
> continues! wow!! and we just got killed and had a
> bowl record 70 points scored on us by a (imagine it
> if you can) a big east team. but you have trouble
> understanding that we are the worst conference in the
> bcs? what other facts can i give you?
1st auto spell check on my dang tablet keeps changing acc to "account"
2nd - the. acc will add two more teams (4 if Clemson and one other team are wise). Basketball first schools like Connecticut ...fake NYC market team like Rutgers, one of the southern Florida schools and Louisv-- - wville
3rd - we raid big east and they are better? What are you talking about. WVU would have crawled on broken glass to get in the acc at the time. They are not a big east team as of the 1st of July
What side of this fight are you on? The ACC is just slightly above the big east "after" wvu has left.
What do the acc and the big east have in common? They are now second class conferences to what will become the big 64.
I want in the big 64
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 27, 2012, 10:03 PM
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i am a clemson fan. the side i am on is that we need to get into another conference. forget the sec, never going to happen, has the big 12 offered? maybe down the road the big 10 may be possible, but what if no one offers? to me the acc is the worst conference we could possibly be in. i dont mean to be so negative, but in the next 2 years we are facing some decisions that could harm the future of the university forever. my worst fear is we dont get an invitation from the big10 or big12. it will kill our athletic program if we dont get out of the acc.
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CU Guru [1898]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 28, 2012, 1:09 AM
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If we don't get an invitation to the Big 10 or Big 12 and are "stuck" with the ACC, then what are our options? Go independent? Nonsense.
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 28, 2012, 7:39 AM
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of course you dont go independant, you play in the acc and become irrelevant, if no one invites you to their conference.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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All-American [554]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 28, 2012, 1:53 PM
[ in reply to Legal Tiger answer this question for me? ] |
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SOME OF YOU? The whole world except for Noah's family, so you'd been there too.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Legal Tiger answer this question for me?
Jun 28, 2012, 2:04 PM
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> SOME OF YOU? The whole world except for Noah's
> family, so you'd been there too.
actually, I believe many changed their mind after the flood waters began to rise. They then wanted very badly to have a spot on that boat.
Ther is no changing some minds, and I hope that I am very wrong. But, i see a move towards 4 super conferences of 16 teams each.
Those 64 teams can move to an NFL like scheduling model with PODS instead of divisions. They can have a full playoff system similar to the NFL. They can leave the NCAA to the rest of the schools. Think of the money that model makes possible.
If there is even a slight chance of a 64 team division or separation, Clemson should be fighting to get one of the 64 seats now, rather than waiting until the boat is full and begging fromthe outside.
As soon as they get to 64, they can quit scheduling the rest of the teams! The cycle as everyone wants to say exists stops dead in it's track!
I am amazed at the trusting nature of many Clemson folks. The writing is on the wall!
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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You got proof of that? Scripture doesn't say that.
Jun 28, 2012, 2:24 PM
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If Bible doesn't say they were on the ark then I'm to assume they weren't. God shut the door and God doesn't change his mind, they had over 100 years to listen, just as we do and in this life is our only chance. Bible is clear once God shut that door they had no hope. Bible says 7, so why would you add to scripture and say more?
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110%er [5014]
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Re: You got proof of that? Scripture doesn't say that.
Jun 28, 2012, 2:28 PM
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> If Bible doesn't say they were on the ark then I'm to
> assume they weren't. God shut the door and God
> doesn't change his mind, they had over 100 years to
> listen, just as we do and in this life is our only
> chance. Bible is clear once God shut that door they
> had no hope. Bible says 7, so why would you add to
> scripture and say more?
That is what I was trying to say! Dont you think as the water was rising and the door had been shut ...they were wishing they had been more proactive?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Maybe, but once your chance is over, it's over
Jun 28, 2012, 2:40 PM
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Once God shuts the door, it doesn't open again.
I get what you're saying. Clemson would have been in the playoff once since 1981. So we need to worry about going 11-1 first. Also not many go 12-0 or 11-1. So if we can do that then we have a great shot. 11-1 Clemson will get in over 10-2 team every year. They will be looking for 11-1 or 12-0 teams first, before 10-2. All Clemson needs to do is finish 11-1 at worst. If we're 10-2 then we nor anyone really has no argument. It usually always works itself out. Also to compare Clemson to Bosie is beyond ridiculous. Clemson last year had a SOS ahead of SC. FSU, Miami, UVA, Clemson, VT and GT all have very good coaches and the future is very bright for the ACC. Also think Edstall is building Maryland and NC state is gonna be pretty good this year. The ACC will be one of the top conferences soon. Just look at CU and FSU recruiting the last couple years. You really think Miami is gonna stay down?
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Maybe, but once your chance is over, it's over
Jun 28, 2012, 3:36 PM
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> Once God shuts the door, it doesn't open again.
>
> I get what you're saying. Clemson would have been in
> the playoff once since 1981. So we need to worry
> about going 11-1 first. Also not many go 12-0 or
> 11-1. So if we can do that then we have a great shot.
> 11-1 Clemson will get in over 10-2 team every year.
> They will be looking for 11-1 or 12-0 teams first,
> before 10-2. All Clemson needs to do is finish 11-1
> at worst. If we're 10-2 then we nor anyone really has
> no argument. It usually always works itself out. Also
> to compare Clemson to Bosie is beyond ridiculous.
> Clemson last year had a SOS ahead of SC. FSU, Miami,
> UVA, Clemson, VT and GT all have very good coaches
> and the future is very bright for the ACC. Also think
> Edstall is building Maryland and NC state is gonna be
> pretty good this year. The ACC will be one of the top
> conferences soon. Just look at CU and FSU recruiting
> the last couple years. You really think Miami is
> gonna stay down?
Bryant, I am ether doing a very poor job of explainig why I believe that you are wrong about what we need to do first, or you are missing something that I am writing.
If College Football was NOT changing. Everything that you say would be "spot on".
By that , I mean....If the big 64 does NOT happen, Clemson is fine right where they are.
They can focus on winning 11 or 12 games and the rest will indeed take care of itself.
You could even make the valid argument that IF the big 64 was NOT happening Clemson has a BETTER chance at the MNC in the ACC instead of the Big 12. The whole thing is a big cycle , and these things change over time.
I get the argument! I fully understand the premise! I would agree whole heartedly with the statements.
That being said, THE BIG 64 IS Happening. THose 64 teams will have no reason to play a team that is not also part of the big 64! There is zero incentive to play outside of the Big64. As a matter of fact there is a great deal to LOSE by playing outside that 64.
Why does a Michigan risk an upset to an Appy State? For the extra pay day right?
Well with the money the Big64 will get with there NFL stle scheduling and a full playoof , and no NCAA to force them to share with the non Big64 (why does the big 64 need the NCAA anymore?) THe Big 64 teams will be the ONLY teams in the league.
The rest will be in a division of their own and probably remain part of the NCAA.
All of this may be total bs, it may never happen. I for one, would rather have a seat at the BIG64 table just in case. This is going to get ugly as these leagues reach towards 16 teams each.
Forget the Noah analogy if it is messed up. Just use common sense, it is easier to find a seat at the table when there are 10 to 12 available, than when there is one left.
Hey , maybe a musical chairs analogy?
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Letterman [254]
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Tim Brando was saying today
Jun 27, 2012, 7:17 PM
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..on the PF show that if Notre Dame enters the Big 12 (football....looks like they are headed that way for Olympic sports) then FSU and CU to the Big 12, with Rutgers and UCONN to the ACC......
That was his two cents. Wouldn't shock me.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: Like "lambs to the slaughter house"....
Jun 27, 2012, 9:12 PM
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I could not agree more
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Junkie [590]
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Re: Like "lambs to the slaughter house"....
Jun 27, 2012, 9:28 PM
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Do we get rings for 5th place conference?
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Orange Blooded [2348]
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As long as we are losing 3,4, or 5 conference games per year
Jun 27, 2012, 9:56 PM
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in this "5th place conference," we really shouldn't talk too much. If we had been dominant and undefeated at least once or twice in the ACC in the past decade, I'd be inclined to listen to this kind of babble, but as of right now we just have to start winning games.
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CU Guru [1895]
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yep.
Jun 27, 2012, 9:59 PM
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Its funny. I don't hear VT fans complaining about how weak the ACC is.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: As long as we are losing 3,4, or 5 conference games per year
Jun 27, 2012, 10:04 PM
[ in reply to As long as we are losing 3,4, or 5 conference games per year ] |
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> in this "5th place conference," we really shouldn't
> talk too much. If we had been dominant and
> undefeated at least once or twice in the ACC in the
> past decade, I'd be inclined to listen to this kind
> of babble, but as of right now we just have to start
> winning games.
Your inability to see the flaw in your logic astounds me. Let me spell it out. Vanderbilt has a better chance of winning a National Championship in football than Clemson does in the ACC starting in 2014.
You pointing out our failure to perform to date , has zero to do with whether we should look for a lifeboat and regroup, or go down with the ship n the acc.
Why is this so difficult for otherwise intelligent people to understand? The game has changed. Yesterday we had hope , improve and get a shot! Tomorrow (figuratively speaking) we are shut out.
Is this the onlybshotbwe have to be one of the 64? I don't know.....but vandy is the dang boat!
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Orange Blooded [2348]
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Being in the ACC will not mean there is no chance to
Jun 27, 2012, 10:15 PM
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play in the National Championship. This conference has Clemson, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, and Miami. A conference that has that many powerhouses will not be shut out of the NC picture, period. The sky is not falling, no matter how much fear-mongering your kind of talk attempts. Football is cyclical. Ten years from now, the SEC may be terrible and the ACC will be the premier conference. You people have forgotten that JUST LAST YEAR, the Big 12 was done for and was falling apart. Thankfully, we have qualified people making the important decisions here and not message board heroes, although I wish we did not have Swofford's self-serving interest involved.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: As long as we are losing 3,4, or 5 conference games per year
Jun 27, 2012, 10:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: As long as we are losing 3,4, or 5 conference games per year ] |
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Look, it doesn't matter what conference we are in if we can't win the games we play. What makes you think we can have a better record in a harder conference if we can't dominate in the easier one? Regardless of what conference we are in, we won't be invited to a 4-team playoff if we lose to the NC States and the Iowa States of college football.
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Associate AD [810]
TigerPulse: 57%
Posts: 1555
Joined: 8/31/03
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Esso, your argument started losing steam when you
Jun 28, 2012, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: As long as we are losing 3,4, or 5 conference games per year ] |
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compared the Big East BCS wins to the ACC BCS wins. If being in a better conference means more success in BCS games then why does the Big East (a weaker conference which is losing schools to the ACC) have more BCS wins than the ACC?
Getting prison-raped in the Orange Bowl is not the ACC's fault. WVU has much less resources than Clemson and hailed from the pathetic Big East. I don't think Boise would have gotten the interstate speed limit wrung up on them in the OB and look what conference BSU is in. Conference affiliation is not the issue right now.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Your "5th place conference" stuff is nonsense...
Jun 27, 2012, 10:19 PM
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Both the last 5 and 10 years, the ACC has averaged out to the 4th best conference.
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110%er [7913]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1/8/02
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that's something to hang your hat on***
Jun 28, 2012, 8:45 AM
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Legend [19586]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Re: Your "5th place conference" stuff is nonsense...
Jun 28, 2012, 1:45 PM
[ in reply to Your "5th place conference" stuff is nonsense... ] |
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Show us then Stanley....give us the numbers, link or something. You love making false statements with out facts....
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110%er [5014]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Your "5th place conference" stuff is nonsense...
Jun 28, 2012, 2:10 PM
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> Show us then Stanley....give us the numbers, link or
> something. You love making false statements with
> out facts....
Stanely only makes sense if you believe the "master" conference (64 teams) continue to schedule games against the "share-cropper" conferences. They will do that as long as they "need to do it".
This is just like SC and Clemson scheduling Furman, Wofford and etc.. for the payday. It makes sense from a finance perspective, because Clemson and SC do not have to make a return trip to the other school.
All the 64 have to do is play a 9 game schedule in conference, and play cross rival teams from the other three divisions of the 64 to fill out the schedule. They see the TV ratings rivaling the NFL.
Open your eyes Stanlely ...use the mind that God gave ya...., for something other than a hat rack 
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CU Guru [1143]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Joined: 10/24/07
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The Playoff is fantastic, if Clemson TCB...
Jun 28, 2012, 8:01 AM
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takes care of business, they can be a top 4 team. If they can be an 11-1 type of team, I'd bet my house that Clemson will at least be the #4 team in the land.
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: Like "lambs to the slaughter house"....
Jun 28, 2012, 8:09 AM
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The problem is not the ACC. The problem is not winning enough games. Clemson just needs to get better and not even worry about the rest of the ACC.
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Letterman [255]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Joined: 4/17/12
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People forget
Jun 28, 2012, 8:43 AM
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It wasnt that long ago that auburn went undefeated in the sec and was left out.
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