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Topic: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?
Replies: 53   Last Post: Jan 4, 2021, 12:16 AM by: Clemgalalways
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Replies: 53  

So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:00 PM
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Just on his 2 performances alone against Bamas historic defenses... DW4 has my vote.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:13 PM
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Trevor was the better QB IMO.

Deshaun played against Baker Mayfield, Jake Coker, JT Barrett, and Jalen Hurts.

Trevor played against Ian Book, Tua, Justin Fields twice, and Joe Burrow.

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Deshaun had Lamar Jackson x2 as well***

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:15 PM
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Re: Deshaun had Lamar Jackson x2 as well***

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 2:06 PM
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Deshaun only played against Lamar once, and I was speaking from a strictly playoff stand point. Trevor lost against arguably the greatest college football team of all time, which had 14 draft picks and the Heisman trophy winner at QB. And he lost to Ohio State who had Justin Fields, which in any other draft would probably be the 1st overall pick, and played only a 6 game schedule.

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Re: Deshaun had Lamar Jackson x2 as well***


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 5:07 PM
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He played against Lamar twice but they only had a good team once.

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Ken Pengitore or Mike O'Cain


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 9:58 PM
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JK.

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Re: Deshaun had Lamar Jackson x2 as well***


Posted: Jan 4, 2021, 12:16 AM
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I've got a question for you Leon and HillRock but will post tomorw about y we didn't adjust our DE's against osu when they stretched us with their oline. Tia

CG - Pennsylvania

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I think I will go with DW4 in college. He just had the will

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:20 PM
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to get after it in the big games. I have not seen TL apply his will to our games and just go make it happen. That was especially true in the last two losses he started.

In the pros, TL may turn out to be better, but that's a future debate........

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Re: I think I will go with DW4 in college. He just had the will


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 6:28 PM
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Lakedude® said:

to get after it in the big games. I have not seen TL apply his will to our games and just go make it happen. That was especially true in the last two losses he started.

In the pros, TL may turn out to be better, but that's a future debate........





Compare the losses for TL16 and DW4 (minus Freshman year when he went down against Ga Tech):

DW4 Losses:

Alabama (CFP Champs)
Pittsburgh (Finished 8-5))

TL16:

LSU (CFP Champs)
Ohio State (CFP)

IMO this is splitting hairs because each had some advantages the other didn't.

DW4 had a better offensive line and athletic ability to buy a little more time. DW4 also had more close games than TL16 ever had.

Notable skill players he had: Renfrow, Mike Williams, Artavis Scott, Deon Cain, Jordan Leggit, Wayne Gallman, Charone Peake

TL16 had the better arm and is actually (probably) straight-line speed faster than DW4. TL is athletic but he was as slick as DW4 moving around the pocket. TL16 only had a few games in which his team trailed and the only losses seemed to be when the defense had a ROUGH night and the Oline just got whipped.

Notable skill players he had: Renfrow (his RS Sr Year), Tee Higgins, ETN, Amari Rogers, Justyn Ross, CP17

We'll always have DW4's Drive and TL16's Bama beat down so it's tough for me to choose.

Having a look at some of the rosters in writing this post, you would think TL16 EASILY had the better Clemson teams but now I'm not so sure. Hard to say if either QB does that much better if you switch them. IMO DW4 wouldn't have changed the outcome against LSU or Ohio State this year.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 11:12 PM
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Watson had a killer instinct! Trevor is a great nice guy but he would be disappointed after a loss where Watson would be pisssed.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 4, 2021, 12:12 AM
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I'd say Trevor will prove to be the better QB in the pros. DW4 may have been a better QB for our playbook with all the rpo's and requires scrambling and Houdini type moves.

Imho, we built Trevor to fit Tony's/DW4 offense than rebuilding a traditional pro set offense. One thing that surprising to me is Trevor hasn't done the side arm pass... Excuse my ignorance on proper verbiage but like mahomes et al does.

That being said, Trevor probably has 2 nattys to DW4 two teams. Think Trevor would have won it in 2015. With our recruiting misses in 17-19 and/or lack of development, Trevor won a lot of games for us with his ability to make the throws so quick. Last year Trevor didn't have a D, this year, he had good WR weapons but no next level and oline was weak...

I'd go so far as to say if Trevor had the 2015 D last year or this year, he'd have won 2, possibly 3. Sftlp.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:23 PM
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As much as I loved watching Lawrence, Watson just had that "it" factor. Lawrence did to, but it just wasn't the same. DW4 played higher when the stacks ere the highest. DW4 was legendary.

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Do you really want to understand how good DW4 really was?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:45 PM
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The 4th and 16 play is perhaps the greatest single play in Clemson lore. That's where the Dynasty began.

Take that play and run it on a loop through both Clemson and Alabama CFP title game matchups with DW4 at the helm. That is practically the equivalent of what DW4 accomplished in each of those games. On every drive. Every play. Watson was beaten, spun and punished by two physical Alabama defenses. Yet Watson put that Clemson team and the entire Clemson nation on his back and refused to say no mass. It literally took him carrying the entire Clemson nation on his back for 119 minutes and 58 seconds before he could finally exhale and breath. Man was more than legendary....he is what Myths are made of.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:23 PM
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Have to go with Watson.

He is Clemson's Goat

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:23 PM
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DW4!!! Deshaun willed us to wins time after time.

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It’s hard to say, going to have to use the ole eye test***


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:27 PM
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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:32 PM
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DW4. He put us on the map with that legendary win over "unbeatable" Alabama. It pains me to watch him in the NFL on such a horrible team with no support. You put him on a team like Cleveland or Kansas City with all those weapons and he would be runaway MVP.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:33 PM
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Deshaun seemed to be the perfect fit for what we want to do. Trevor might be the better QB, but hard to tell. Trevor definitely had the worst offensive line this year out of everyone’s seasons. I don’t ever remember us being completely incapable of running the football in big games like we were this season. That will definitely cloud the comparison. I think Deshaun Watson would have probably been more electric, though, and would have been able to make a couple more plays the other night. Thankful for both of these guys! Hope they can eventually meet in a super bowl.

Go Tigers!

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:33 PM
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what do the numbers say

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:36 PM
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DW4 because he made Saban change his offense.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:36 PM
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If TL had gotten us to the Natty again I would have gone with him. As it stands, very close. TL with more skill. Perhaps DW4 with more grit. Both tremendous players and people.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 6:21 PM
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ddclemson said:

If TL had gotten us to the Natty again I would have gone with him. As it stands, very close. TL with more skill. Perhaps DW4 with more grit. Both tremendous players and people.


DW4

Here is the scenario. Down 6 with 1:21 to play. Without regard to what receiver, online, or RB is on the team.... Who would you choose for QB?
I would go with DE4 every time! Every fan. Every player.... always believed they would win if DW4 has the ball. As great a TL16 is, I can’t say the same applies to him.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:43 PM
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Kinda hard to compare different styles of play. Watson had more of a gutsy feel but that comes with runners and TL has such a hard pokerface I think people get fooled into thinking he's not trying.

Also keep in mind that Watson had a disgusting level of WR talent to throw to where Trevor was missing half his targets basically all year.


So yes.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 2:26 PM
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So, in 2015, you mean Charone peake, tay Scott, Renfrow and Leggett? Those guys were really good, but the talent of wr we've had with Trevor, there's no comparison.

DW4 never had a Tee on one side and a Ross on the other, with an explosive slot wr like Amari, and 2 5 stars on the bench like ngata and Ladson. Not to mention an ETN.

Last year, we just didn't use them effectively, and didn't use the middle of the field enough in 2019. That comes down to coaching and stressing using the middle of the field. If we used that more vs OSU last year and especially in the LSU game (te) it opens more things up. Unfortunately outside of a couple of targets, it was throw 50/50 balls to tee and Ross and let's see what happens.

In 2020, we did use the field, we were just hit unfortunately with injuries and weren't able to see the full fruition of the talent that we had.

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Are you kidding? TL has had far better WRs.***


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 10:15 PM
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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:45 PM
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We've had some great receivers in the TL era too, but not all at one time like DW had available. It's hard to compare anything else to that last drive from the 2016 NC.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:58 PM
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Not sure Trevor could have orchestrated a drive that important. This could have been due to play calling or skill. IDK

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 6:35 PM
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Not sure Trevor could have orchestrated a drive that important. This could have been due to play calling or skill. IDK




I mean, I would LOVE to see if he could. Relatively speaking, we had less "cardiac" cat games with TL at the control.

Would have been cool to see but I guess we'll have to wait until the NFL to see TL16 under the gun in the final minutes.

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lawrence will be great in the nfl


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:46 PM
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but in college i have to go with watson.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:47 PM
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Deshaun was more electric! JMO

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:49 PM
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Consider the receivers both had. Consider the defense to keep getting the ball back.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:51 PM
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DW is better. He played against better defenses and did it at a higher level then TL. Also DW kept us in every game. We never got blown out with DW. I love TL but I'm going with DW.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 5:19 PM
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Blowouts have more to do with our defense. Watson had superior defense. Trevor played on probably the best team in 2018 but in 2019 that’s the weakest defense we’ve had in years. And our defense this year was not where it has been either. And Trevor was working with a good but not great group of receivers this year.

Other than 2018 Watson was on teams that had more talent and far superior defenses.

Trevor is a Great quarterback but he hasn’t had the same team depth and quality as Watson and Watson is more dynamic. Both are great. You’re splitting hairs to be honest trying to say who’s better. They each play a different style of football. Watson is more dynamic and a better runner, but Trevor will be the better pro. Which is crazy because Watson statistically right now is the number one quarterback in the NFL and he’s doing it pretty much by himself!

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:54 PM
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Watson and it's not that close.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 1:58 PM
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Really though to say. DW4 had more consistently better receivers and OL. He also seemed more determined to win at times, and certainly put Clemson in the map.

TL on the other hand seemed more like a natural and generational talent, but maybe came in at the wrong time as this years receivers and OL were less.

I guess I’d say DW in college, but TL will have a better pro career (at least I hope. Houston sucks!)

Neither will be forgotten and will always be loved.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 2:01 PM
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If TL would have had Ross, Ngata and Ladson this year he wins the Heisman going away and possibly outscore OSU.Watson gets it by a hair only because of his creating so many great plays on his own.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 2:11 PM
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Both were tremendous but DW4 had a better overall team around him.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 2:37 PM
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I think it’s close to a “ toss-up”. Slight edge to Lawrence due to overall record.
Regardless, how blessed we were to have both of them.

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Definitely Trevor

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 3:31 PM
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As I mentioned in an earlier Thread, Trevor made throws that Watson could not/cannot make. In 2016, DW4 threw 17 Interceptions! Trevor threw 17 interceptions in 3 years. Also, Trevor throws better on the Run. DW4 was a more elusive runner (but not faster).

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Re: Definitely Trevor


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 3:35 PM
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And During both of their Careers, DW4 NEVER played behind such a Porous Ofeensive Line as the 2020 edition! Trevor was running for his life in many games this year — including last Friday night.

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DW4***

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 4:57 PM
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Better leader, better at improvising. Strong willed. Trevor was fantastic and a better passer, but he made me nervous at times...DW4 didn't.

DJU will be a beast combo of the two.

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TL I Think The Better Mechanic...DW4 The Better Grinder

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 4:59 PM
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Both won in different ways

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DW4 remains on top

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 5:01 PM
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DW4 carried two teams on his back during the season to CFP title games. Trevor was never required to shoulder as big a burden.

DW4 was robbed of a Heisman trophy when he finished behind Derrick Henry and Christian McCaffrey. A total joke of a vote. I'll cut them a little slack the following year because Lamar Jackson's stats were too insane. DW4 was the better player though.

Each guy was a credit to the program and won the ultimate prize. We are fortune to have had them both.

Gotta give the edge to DW4.

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Re: DW4 remains on top


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 5:03 PM
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Edge to DW4 but between the final play of 16 championship and TLs run against OSU last year both have some of the most legendary plays in the CFB era.

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From a stats/talent level...


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 5:10 PM
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I would lean toward Lawrence. The kid is really really talented.

From a leadership standpoint Watson all the way. I don’t see Trevor putting the team on his shoulders like Watson did in that last minute drive to win that first Natty.

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From a stats/talent level...


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 5:10 PM
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I would lean toward Lawrence. The kid is really really talented.

From a leadership standpoint Watson all the way. I don’t see Trevor putting the team on his shoulders like Watson did in that last minute drive to win that first Natty.

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This would be best as a poll


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 6:30 PM
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DW4 was better, but I think he had a better o line than Trevor.

We’re just blessed to have had them both, and now get to see DJ; I hope he eclipses them both.

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Re: This would be best as a poll

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 6:52 PM
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Trevor was more Peyton Manning, throws a beautiful ball, the perfect QB and made teams look stupid in regular season but when it maters most Watson was like Tom Brady and refused to lose.

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DW4 by a quarter mile

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 6:54 PM
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With respects to TL16, he is not nearly as tough. DW4 is the only QB who would have beaten an all-time great 2016 Bama Defense and fearlessly survived the beatdown by Bama defenders.

DW4 was Clemson's leader who turned around the fortunes of an average Clemson team with 5 straight losses to Spurrier. He forced Spurrier into retirement, made Dabo millions, defeated a great Bama team to win Clemson's 1st natl championship in 35 years, and forced Saban to change Bama into a an Offensive powerhouse. After watching DW4 beat his better Bama team, Saban concluded good Offenses and rule changes meant great Offenses would beat great Defenses. (On a tangent, Saban's ability to adapt in a game, in a season, and between seasons makes him the all-time best college coach. The amazing Dabo is younger and is still learning adaptability.)

Despite TL16's phenomenal passing skill sets, CW42 was the leader of the 2018 team who convinced the Power Rangers to stay another year, facilitated the transition from Bryant to superstar TL16, and led the team on and off the field.

TL16 may or may not be a better pro, but without DW4, Clemson does not win in 2016, and does not recruit to field our best team in history with TL16, ETN, Big Dex and more in 2018.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 7:10 PM
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DW4. His ability to do it game in game out with his arm and legs sets him apart. Greatest football player in Clemson history.

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DW4 easily... The stats alone prove it, but...


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 9:51 PM
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It was his ability to put the team on his back and carry them to a win.

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DW4 was the 1st player to throw for 4,000 yds and...


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 10:04 PM
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Rush for 1,000 in a single season. TL hasn’t been able to throw for 4,000 yds so this isn’t even a conversation.

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?


Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 11:42 PM
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Watson = Jordan
Lawrence = Bird

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Re: So... who was the best Clemson QB? DW4 or TL16?

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Posted: Jan 3, 2021, 11:42 PM
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Watson = Jordan
Lawrence = Bird

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