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Topic: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...
Replies: 42   Last Post: Nov 20, 2020, 7:41 AM by: grover173®
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Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

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Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 3:58 AM
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Not looking for condescending or getting into a religious back and forth, but I am looking for answers to see if there is a common agreement. So take the whole “ if you don’t believe you will go to ####”narrative from Christianity and answer with an open and honest answer.

If everyone followed the teachings of the Bible about how to treat one another, how to be better humans and constantly clear our thoughts and tame our emotions, how to show empathy/ fellowship, how not to steal and kill and be honest, do you disagree or agree that the entire world would be a better place if we just followed these guidelines?

If you do agree, then why would it be a bad thing to teach our youth these principals of the Bible and hope that they can impact others so the world can change for the better?

Is it such a bad thing for someone to pray in hopes that a higher power even greater doctor or a scientist could heal a sick child or a close loved one?

I personally think that regardless if you think Christianity is “supernatural” or not, the evidence of the teachings alone could make this world an entirely better place.

It is apparent and proof without some guidelines, humanity has failed over and over and will continue to do so. So why not have a starting point to change it all by having a set of standards and guides to teach ourselves and others such as the teachings of the Bible?

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[2]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 4:16 AM
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You are suggesting we need to follow the standards of the Bible. I think it's pretty obvious we, the human race, have failed in this effort. Hence, the need for a Savior. This is where Christ comes into the picture. (Titus 3: 5,6)

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 4:24 AM
    Reply

Every religion in the world starts from some variant of The Golden Rule. It sounds like what you're asking would be covered no matter which religion one follows. There are other shared principles that sound very much like the 10 commandments of Christianity.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 4:41 AM
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That's exactly it. Christianity isn't the only religion to teach that, nor is the Bible the only religious text to teach it.

It has always been MY opinion that religion, as a whole, is just a crutch (for many reasons), and to the point at hand, to give people a reason to be a good person. If you need religion and and religious texts to tell you how to be a good person, then you need to look in the mirror and wonder WHY you need that crutch.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:03 AM
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Growing up in Rock Hill in the 50s and 60s we had a Bible Teacher, Ms. Trumble. She rotated to every elementary school during the year. I still remember many of her lessons.
America would do well to reinstate such training!

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 7:29 AM
    Reply

Playing devil's advocate. If you in fact bring back Bible study/classes then you have to also offer classes for all religions. I hear this argument alot but the first amendment doesn't just protect Christianity. So that is the question one has to ask, do we want to allow the Bible and prayer back in schools, understanding that it doesn't not just mean allowing "Christianity" back in but all other religions too?

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:08 AM
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You are correct! But compared to some religions Christianity isn’t a religion that is widely known for beheading infidels as of late. Yes individuals in all religions fall short of teachings it’s less common to see Christian activist groups bomb buildings and kill others for not believing.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:18 AM
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You asked if the basic ideas of the Bible and Christianity would make humanity better off? The point is on those very basic principles, all religions are the same. Beyond those basic shared principles, they are very different. How they are executed is a completely different topic.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[2]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:34 AM
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Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Atheism, etc., are the same? Why do colleges offer comparative religion courses if they are all the same?

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[2]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:36 AM
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I did not say they were all the same. I said they have some shared principles. Big difference.

I realize my point was not as clear as it should have been and I modified it. Thanks for pointing it out.

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"As of late"

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 7:28 AM
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Christianity has been the prime motivating factor behind such recent atrocities as segregation, lynching, and Native forced schooling, all of which happened within the lifetimes of several people on this board. It does not have a shining spotless record, even recently. I don't think I even need to mention the atrocities committed in prior centuries, especially in the Dark Ages when *Islam* was the most tolerant, knowledgeable, and flourishing religion in the world.

The lessons taught in the Bible are assuredly worthy lessons to live by, but they are no more or less valid than the lessons taught by the books of every major religion. The problem arises when humans interpret those books to their own ends.

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Re: "As of late"

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:28 AM
    Reply

Can you show me where in Christian teachings, there is motivation to commit any of the atrocities you mention. Don't blame Christianity for the actions of those who merely call themselves Christian. The word "Christian", comes from early followers of Christ being referred to as "in Christ", commonly stated as "Christ ins", ultimately the word we have today, Christian. There is nothing in the teaching of Christ that would motivate one of his followers, or someone who is genuinely in Christ to commit these actions with any sense of Christian justification.

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Are you claiming bible doesn’t call for violence anywhere?


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:51 AM
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You need to read it some more.

You know, eye for an eye. Or Leviticus 20:13. Plus many many others

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Re: Are you claiming bible doesn’t call for violence anywhere?

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 9:08 AM
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Show me where the teachings of Jesus Christ call for violence? He is the basis, inspiration, motivation, example, and reality for all Christians to model. Any deviation from this is not Christian. Jesus calls us to a life of perfection, an aspiration that we can not attain without his grace. Paramount to this pursuit is worshiping God and loving our neighbor as ourselves. There is no exception made for the mistreatment of our fellow man, none that can be associated with Christianity, including the systematic murder of unborn babies.

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Got it. Didn't realize focus was only on New Testament

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 10:51 AM
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There were still plenty of slaves in New Testament that Jesus was okay with. Lots of name calling in the New Testament too. And the whole concept of he-l-l in general isn't very nice. But otherwise, far less violent than the Old Testament.

Which also makes you wonder, why are so many 'Christians' so mean and un-Christlike in their actions.

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I don't need to show you


Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 7:41 AM
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History has done that thousands of time. Thousands. The atrocities committed in the name of Christianity have literally impacted the entire world. They nearly wiped out the New World and subjugated the entirety of Africa, among other things. Politicians and "Good Christians" were using the Bible as recently as the 1960's to justify segregation, Jim Crow laws, institutional racism, and murder. Failure to recognize religion's influence in those atrocities is either willful ignorance or outright denial.

You can't say "don't blame Christianity for the actions of those who merely call themselves Christian" and then turn right around and apply the exact opposite criteria to other religions. It would be more accurate to say "Don't blame Jesus Christ for the actions of Christianity". Jesus himself was perfection. But the institutions established in His name are flawed, because they are human institutions.

I'm not saying Christianity or Christians are evil or bad. The religion has obviously also been a source of incredible goodness and progress in the world. I'm saying they're no more or less perfect than other religions, and their history certainly isn't spotless.

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No.....The Motivation to do is wrong is driven by Evil

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:39 AM
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combined with man's God-given free will. Man has wrongly used religion as a justification since day 1 for acts of evil.

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Re: No.....The Motivation to do is wrong is driven by Evil

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:50 AM
    Reply

I agree. Some people do not believe there is so called Evil but it is there.

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Re: "As of late"


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 9:11 AM
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Christianity has been the prime motivating factor behind such recent atrocities as segregation, lynching, and Native forced schooling, all of which happened within the lifetimes of several people on this board. It does not have a shining spotless record, even recently. I don't think I even need to mention the atrocities committed in prior centuries, especially in the Dark Ages when *Islam* was the most tolerant, knowledgeable, and flourishing religion in the world.

The lessons taught in the Bible are assuredly worthy lessons to live by, but they are no more or less valid than the lessons taught by the books of every major religion. The problem arises when humans interpret those books to their own ends.


Here’s a story:

Once upon a time there were two people. One decided to follow the teachings of Christ the other decided to follow the teachings of Mohammed.

They both were diligent and strived to follow the teachings to the letter.

The one who followed the word of Christ lived a life of ups and downs but mostly lived a life of peace. The one who followed Mohammed lived a life of ups and downs and went to jail.

The end.

PS-do your homework before you respond. Make yourself a list of their teachings that would be considered criminal today and be prepared.

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Re: "As of late"


Posted: Nov 20, 2020, 7:33 AM
    Reply

That's not a story, it's a fairy tale. A stupid one, at that.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[2]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:39 AM
    Reply

I don’t look at being a Christian as a crutch to be good, nice and treat people fairly. To me, being a Christian (religious in some people’s words) means that I’ve put my complete trust in God. Putting your trust in God alone will bring you salvation, eternal life in heaven. Our bank account, home, vehicles, club memberships will not save our souls. However, when we trust in God, He will provide for our every NEED, not our every want and He has proven it over and over to my family. Yes, I’ve always had a good job, comfortable home, reliable vehicles that I feel He gave me the ability to have.Also, when I trust in God, the old desires that I used to have of doing wrong, evil, not being nice to people are gone. Part of His giving us what we need is that desire to live right and try to walk in His ways. And no, I’m no where near perfect. I’m still a sinner but saved by Gods grace alone. Hope this doesn’t sound like a sermon, just sharing With you what I believe. Thanks.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:38 AM
    Reply

Well said and thanks.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 2:05 PM
    Reply

CA,

There are also plenty of non-religious guides for living an ethical life. These are not supernatural considerations.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:03 AM
    Reply

I never get into this type of conversation as it never comes to a end. When things go great, ie: a sick child gets well, a horrible disease goes into remission, we win a National Championship, then God had a hand in it. When things go exactly opposite, no mention is made of a greater power.

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monter le cheval de fer
A coot will usually blink when hit in the head with a ball-peen hammer


Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[2]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:14 AM
    Reply

On contrary when bad things happen some tend to blame God, some tend to grow closer to the belief of a God in bad situations.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[2]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:15 AM
    Reply

Sorry about the FB bored invasion. It’s 5 a.m and no coffee yet.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 2:07 PM
    Reply

Touch,

I don't think I have ever seen someone curse god for a tornado or for losing a ballgame.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 6:29 PM
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Touch,

I don't think I have ever seen someone curse god for a tornado or for losing a ballgame.


If that tornado had ripped away loved ones, tore through homes and devastated ones livelihood they would. You think individuals that don’t normally pray, pray to God for others safety in the wake of a natural disaster? As far as football... if it is that terrible that your team lost a game that you have to get a deity involved, you might want to read more of the Bible to find out priorities.

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Without getting too detailed: yes***


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 5:43 AM
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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[2]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 6:08 AM
    Reply

"ROME" didn't believe in one "GOD", they believed in one "POWER", a power that dominated the world.
The" LEFT WING LIBERALS" could could care less about "YOUR" Christanity. They are ,IMO ,even more hungry for "POWER" than the Roman's were. And they could care less what the consequences are?
It is not a bad thing to want to teach your children the teaching of the "BIBLE", but how can you realistically expect that when our "EDUCATION SYSTEM" doesn't want to teach them about our "HISTORY" because it might "OFFEND" some people.
But hey, this is a "SPORTS" board so ask yourself this question.
How can you talk about principles ,and belief's when a culture that has been around for hundreds of years wants the moniker "REDSKINS "removed from a team name because it's not "POLITICALLY CORRECT "and "OFFENDS" those same people who want to take away your "FREEDOM TO WORSHIP" while allowing a "STRIP CLUB" to operate on SUNDAY?

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 6:27 AM
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Power vs. Principles. Which side always seems to be the first to compromise their principles to gain power? Good point.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 6:38 AM
    Reply

Thank you.Much appreciated.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 2:25 PM
    Reply

Thoughtful (and Leftie)

I am sensing that y'all think that liberals are the first to compromise principles for power, but I don't want to assume.

Please be aware that liberals think that conservatives are more likely to do this.

So here's a side question: Why do both sides feel that their is the most principled ? How can we talk about it so that both sides might view the other in a bit better light ?

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 9:21 AM
    Reply

I hope you didn't learn that capitalization method in English 101. or 102. or at Clemson at all.

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I agree that the world would be a better place to live.***

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:02 AM
    Reply



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I didn't realize Jesus played football.

[4]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:11 AM
    Reply

Otherwise this could have been posted in the P&R forum

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He was pretty darn good too

[1]
Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:26 AM
    Reply

played so many positions it was mind-boggling. Half the time the coaches didn't know if he was in the game or on the bench

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monter le cheval de fer
A coot will usually blink when hit in the head with a ball-peen hammer


Re: I didn't realize Jesus played football.


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:29 AM
    Reply

Touchdown Jesus?

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 8:29 AM
    Reply

"Be excellent to each other."

The most non-heinous of all golden rules.

Pretty much every religion in the world has something like this in its tenets, even Wyld Stallyns-ism.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 10:30 AM
    Reply

I will suggest this:

In my previous research capacity, I often applied critical discourse analysis and content analysis to various written and graphical text (often applied to policy related issues). You would be surprised how often folks would take the same content and reach very, very different results.

For a quick Crtl C/P from google:

Critical discourse analysis is a methodology that enables a vigorous assessment of what is meant when language is used to describe and explain. There is a proliferation of terms within critical discourse analysis which is reflective of the various influences in the development of the methodology.

Content analysis is the study of documents and communication artifacts, which might be texts of various formats, pictures, audio or video. Social scientists use content analysis to examine patterns in communication in a replicable and systematic manner.

Intercoder reliability is the widely used term for the extent to which independent coders evaluate a characteristic of a message or artifact and reach the same conclusion.

My work, which was mass-market targeted (ie kept simple, not actual legal code) was that with a semi-trained person, I would be EXTREMELY happy if they agreed 70% of the time.

People intake information radically differently. To the point that if you take the bible, I would EXPECT a million different denominations to sprout because a lot of folks read slightly different things from the same text. Toss in differences in just language translation, and, bowhowdy it gets different quick.

That being said, I am a Christian but I put a lot more emphasis on the ethical teaching rather than the spiritual. Thus, I do not take miracles/divine intervention into my belief system even-though I take other aspects. Others would do the opposite and that is fine by me.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 2:03 PM
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Touch,

There is plenty of good philosophical and moral material in the Bible. But there is also plenty of bad (& contradictory). So my first question is how does one choose which principles to follow ?

Secondly, almost all of the best philosophical and moral material is derived from other secular sources, many of which predate the Bible.

And most importantly, my exposure to christians indicates that many of them use their belief in a higher power to abdicate their own responsibilities here on Earth. I see that as hampering the world becoming a better place rather than helping it.

I have also seen a frightening tendency for some christians to relinquish their ability to rationally analyze real world problems because they have been indoctrinated into the concept of just accepting ideas without supporting evidence.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 6:40 PM
    Reply


Touch,

There is plenty of good philosophical and moral material in the Bible. But there is also plenty of bad (& contradictory). So my first question is how does one choose which principles to follow ?

Secondly, almost all of the best philosophical and moral material is derived from other secular sources, many of which predate the Bible.

And most importantly, my exposure to christians indicates that many of them use their belief in a higher power to abdicate their own responsibilities here on Earth. I see that as hampering the world becoming a better place rather than helping it.

I have also seen a frightening tendency for some christians to relinquish their ability to rationally analyze real world problems because they have been indoctrinated into the concept of just accepting ideas without supporting evidence.


We could start with the 10 commandments for one. We do an abundance of all of these things the 10 commandment tell us not to. Hence, we suck morally in general as humans. And this is where the problem lies, I wasn’t being condescending or shaming individuals for not believing, but your key words such as “indoctrinated”. Some...yes, have been indoctrinated, but not many Christians think that the earth is still flat or dinosaurs didn’t exist. We know those things now by having evidence and the ability to rationalize things. In fact it is the opposite. I see more non Christians who believe in things like this.

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Re: Since everyone else is, I will too! Just curious...


Posted: Nov 19, 2020, 6:40 PM
    Reply


Touch,

There is plenty of good philosophical and moral material in the Bible. But there is also plenty of bad (& contradictory). So my first question is how does one choose which principles to follow ?

Secondly, almost all of the best philosophical and moral material is derived from other secular sources, many of which predate the Bible.

And most importantly, my exposure to christians indicates that many of them use their belief in a higher power to abdicate their own responsibilities here on Earth. I see that as hampering the world becoming a better place rather than helping it.

I have also seen a frightening tendency for some christians to relinquish their ability to rationally analyze real world problems because they have been indoctrinated into the concept of just accepting ideas without supporting evidence.


We could start with the 10 commandments for one. We do an abundance of all of these things the 10 commandment tell us not to. Hence, we suck morally in general as humans. And this is where the problem lies, I wasn’t being condescending or shaming individuals for not believing, but your key words such as “indoctrinated”. Some...yes, have been indoctrinated, but not many Christians think that the earth is still flat or dinosaurs didn’t exist. We know those things now by having evidence and the ability to rationalize things. In fact it is the opposite. I see more non Christians who believe in things like this.

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