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Topic: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays
Replies: 32   Last Post: Sep 11, 2018, 7:16 PM by: HillRockTiger
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Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays

[3]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 9:26 AM
 

Would you run instead of what we did Saturday? I’ve coached school and travel ball for over 20 years and my teams have won over 82% of the games. Only say that for those stating “when have you ever coached?”

Tell all my kids and parents “coaches don’t win games but we can lose the game”. Players make the plays to win, we (as coaches) never make a SINGLE play. It’s all the kids, but we can put them in the wrong place and tell them the wrong playcall. That’s how we can lose the game but never win one.

I’ve read here (myself included) about the play calling. That’s fair, especially considering the talent on the roster, the ranking of the team and the pay of the coaches. Having said this, what plays would you have liked called?

I’m being serious, because I love to talk real strategy with others.

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I’ll bite. But I admit I’m not the best X’s and O’s Guy.

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 9:34 AM
 

I think and I could be wrong that what happens is we get up and then get conservative. This has won a lot of games for us. In fact I can’t remember a game that we’ve lost in the last 3 years that was because we got up and let someone back in it. Syracuse and Pitt you could tell was off from the start. Alabama we obviously never ran up the score. But I think in games we can we get another td. But it would be fair to say a fumble or an interception and now you’ve given them a win. I would like just a few more downfield passes. Like kb to amari or tl to Higgins sat night. We have a great running back corps but I also think when you have wrs like we do if we weren’t exactly 50/50 but maybe 60/40 we might get it done. Otherwise I think it’s more execution than playcalling imo. But many others think differently. Again I don’t think we need some huge change but a few more downfield looks would be fun and hopefully productive.


Message was edited by: lovingit®


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Re: I’ll bite. But I admit I’m not the best X’s and O’s Guy.

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 9:56 AM
 

That’s good stuff, and I think the same way about taking a few more shots down field. It does a couple of things:
A- we’ve got stud WR’s that we can keep rolling on the field, no other team has that kind of talented DB depth
B - taking shots makes the DC and the defensive players “THINK” about the possibility of the deep ball. Now they’re thinking and on their heels which means they’re not playing as fast. Thinking vs Reacting
C - we’ve got taller receivers than most DB’s we’ll face, use our advantage

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And I suspect even if it’s not a catch we’d get a few pi go our way***


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:29 AM
 

null


Message was edited by: lovingit®


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Bill Connelly said it well on his podcast Sunday


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 11:32 AM
 

It was something to the tune of: "The same thing scares me about Clemson that scared me about Clemson last year. They get a lead and they don't bother going for the knockout punch. They are more than happy to let the fight go a decision. But sometimes the other team gets hot late and you can really pay for that. They almost did last night."

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Re: I’ll bite. But I admit I’m not the best X’s and O’s Guy.


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 5:28 PM
 

I want to see us run more power and play action off power like the TD against VT in the ACC CG. Deshaun got to be lethal at that and I think it could open up downfield passing for Kelly. Also the QB power option was great in 2016 and should be a staple of the offense IMO.

Also, fwiw if you like X's and Os you should read this film review, it's pretty technical but really well done...he breaks down every play by formation and what happened https://clemsonpaws.com/1st-quarter-film-part-1-texas-am-18/

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only 82% ?

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 9:36 AM
 

you wouldn't survive tnet

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Re: only 82% ?


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 9:58 AM
 

This is very true

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays

[4]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 9:52 AM
 

after the obvious lack of creative play calling against Bama last year with a month off to come up with some wrinkles, I became concerned with whether or not our young OCs were experienced enough to coach our wealth of talent. After TAMU, I'm almost convinced they arent capable. I'm not a coach, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just trying to figure out what some of you folks out there think. It seems we are stuck running the same plays over and over. The half back pass was the only thing I saw new or different. all any good defensive coordinator needs to do is watch our last 3 games and they have the playbook. If we played Arkansas, all they would have to do is ask the Chad what he would do and defend it. Something has to change before we play Bud Foster's group. In fact, if we dont come up with a way to make our offense click we may not get to play Va Tech or anyone else in the post season. Just my thoughts. I realize it's early but I had hoped our OCs would have learned from last years semifinal debacle. I think both are really good coaches just inexperienced.lastly, Im worried that we wont need to come up with anything different to win the rest of the way and we will become content on winning by being more talented. When we encounter teams of equal talent we will need plan b or plan c and we wont have them. It's very Tommy Bowden-like. Hopefully I'm wrong!!! GO TIGERS!!!

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:06 AM
 

What you just said is going on in my daughters high school volleyball team. We went undefeated in conference play last year and cruised to the state championship game... where we met up with the defending state champs who were all friggin tall. I’m 6’1” and had to look up to half of them.

Anyway, they beat us because of their quick sets to their middle. We hadn’t seen it all year and the coachs never adjusted.

We saw them at a summer camp and they’re running the same thing. We have the potential to meet them again at state so you would think we would practice against it a little. Unfortunately, my daughter tells me they haven’t. Fool me once shame on you....

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 9:53 AM
 

I'd be willing to bet you're not going to get the type of responses you're looking for LOL

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“travel ball”? What does AAU basketball- weekend baseball


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 9:59 AM
 

have to do with anything?

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:02 AM
 

I want to see Lawrence under center with a blocking TE and a RB in offset I behind him. Make them stay in and max protect to give Lawrence some time. Run a 3 man pattern and let him sling it. I don't think we should ever run 5 man patterns when he's in.

1) He's a freshman, he not going to run through 4 progressions to hit his 5th option.
2) Our interior O-line is getting ate up. He's not going to have time to make his progressions with only 5 blocking.

When he's under center (or pistol) it opens up tosses and counters that you can't run when he's in shotgun. He shouldn't be running a read option 3 times during a drive. Give ETN the dang ball and let him make plays in space. The really hope Elliot has an epiphany and realizes he has to call the game differently than when Tajh and Kelly were behind center.

Someone smarter than me, let me know where my thinking is wrong here.

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:21 AM
 

In the small sample size from Lawrence, he is as advertised. Awesome arm and seems to have it between his ears. I’ve heard him in interviews state that he ran basically the same offense in high school so he has a grasp of what we’re trying to do.
He just needs more experience and let the game slow down for him...which again, comes with more PT.

With his arm and the weapons around him, ETN included, this offense could purrr

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:07 AM
 

I think we are in a tough place because of our O- line. The lack of running plays and downfield passing is due to the fact that our OL is very weak. Our coaches must know this and that is why we get the quick screens and qb reads. We simply cannot open the #2 hole and run through it like an Alabama or Wisconsin. Look at Syracuse, NC State, and Pitt the last few years, where all we need was 1 yd to ice the game. We had 3rd and 1 against Pitt and could not get 1 yard in two plays.

This also effects the QB situation. If the line could give TL an extra second, he could pick people apart; but we do not have that luxury. Then KB throws so slow that one of those long screen passes is eventually going for 6 the other way, that's why he throws low. He's trying to protect the ball when it seems like it's in the air for 30 seconds getting there.

Our coaches are trying to compensate for our lack of OL dominance with the playcalling but they aren't as creative as Chad. Opposing teams are on to us and usually more experienced. I can almost see Saban smiling when he drew us last year. DW was a good mix of TL and KB, so he got out of bad situations while also being accurate.

I would like see more of a perimeter running attack but really commit to it, not just leave the back on an island. Just as downfield passing opens up the run, I believe outside running helps open up the middle for running.

We are going to have to get the TE involved on quick slants/ outs to get us some first downs. First downs dramatically wear down the defense and our 3 and outs will keep opponents in the game. Just a few first downs last sat even without scoring and we win by two scores at least. Look how our defense gets shredded after a few first downs. Imagine if our offense could maintain a drive.

Really, based on our personnel, I think alot of what offensive plays people want to see cannot happen. We can get the TEs more involved though, and just getting a few first downs would open up our offensive game.

P.S. also get a $$$$ punter. Ulcer evaded if we had a 40 yd punt at the end of the game.

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:23 AM
 

Im going to get roasted for this, but when Caldwell retires, we need to go after the best OLINE coach in college football. IMHO everything starts up front.

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:25 AM
 

Could not agree more, very well said

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:35 AM
 

That was not meant for Caldwell, it was for earlier post.
My bad!

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:14 AM
 

Run plays -

* 2-back look - wing or power-I to counter full box with an extra blocker

* 22 personnel w/2 TEs to get another blocker

* run power at the strong side and come back with counter to the cut-back weak side.

Pass plays -

* Most anything using the TE - out, Z-up, rub, behind WR screen, seam fly, slant, cross.

* slot sluggo (not sure if we tried it or not)

The thing I find strange is that with a single-high safety, multiple deep routes run in concert should be productive and shake someone loose. How many times did we have more than one go-route and/or deep slant against one-high? Dunno.

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:30 AM
 

Stated in a previous post that I didn’t even remember seeing the TE’s. Whether we want to admit it, almost all great teams had a good pass catching TE.

90’s Cowboys - Jay Novacek
Patriots - Gronkowski
Bama - guy we made look all world
Clemson - Leggett

Just the ones off the top of my head

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:18 AM
 

I think this is a good question, I've never coached football and I'm sure I don't know all the terminology but hopefully I can get my point across. Given teams are taking away the middle of the field and our offensive line hasn't been great I'd like to see plays that get our playmakers outside. A few that come to mind:

Jet sweep - bring amari or renfrow in motion and let them get it outside quick. Use our big receivers to block.

Toss sweep - get the ball in Etiennes hand and let him make some people miss.

Quick out route/curl - this can be done with any of our receivers. Do it with tee a few times to open open the big play downfield or with renfrow to get some quick yards.

A creative play I'd like to see is put TL and KB in there. TL at qb and he gives it to KB in a sweep type play. Send the receivers down field. It's designed to be a run play because the safeties and corners have to cover the receivers but if they leave the receiver then kb can pull up and pass it.
I really like our current quarterback rotation so I'm not advocating to turn KB into a running back, I just think it'd be an interesting wrinkle that could definitely throw defenses off if we need a big play. Maybe use it on a big third down after the other team calls a time out.

I'm usually a fan of using the screen in moderation but KB doesn't seem to be able to run it very well. It's seems like with deshaun and tl the ball is out there before the defender can react, but when kb runs it the corner is hitting our receiver as he's catching the ball.


Message was edited by: CU12- made it easier to read


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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:20 AM
 

I'd personally like to see Elliott quit trying to make every running back be the same thing...and every QB. It reminds me of Chad Morris with Deshaun and Cole. Each guy has a different skill set. he needs to learn to coach and plan to fit their strengths. We talk about having O-Line issues...well, Travis Etienne might be able to do more if you'd quit trying to force him to run the A-Gap all the time and let him do what he did last year to the outside with a lead blocker. Not every back has the body size nor strength to constant run up the A-Gap effectively. Travis's ability to shake guys off has happened more often than not on a play to the outside of the line, not up the middle/A-gap. It's like watching them trying to make Spiller run like Davis and trying to make Davis be Spiller.

Same thing with the QB's...each has a specific skill set. Kelly has some throwing inaccuracy issues at times, as well as deep ball (though that is improving a little), but his main weapon is in the run aspect he can bring to the table....Trevor has great throwing, but doesn't have Kelly's wheels. You'd be better off utilizing the RB's for the runs with Trevor in, and let his arm be what makes the defense stay back to open both the running and passing games. Don't try turning him into being some running dual threat that he isn't, the RB's can carry the load...he's elusive, he can extend plays, but he's not what KB and DW4 were in the run game, wasn't in HS either. Kelly in, you can mix in QB runs more, making them have to play on their heels, but he as well needs to at least be able to hit some passes, especially up the middle for 8-10 yards...that will keep the LB's in place for his running game to stay open.

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I’m not seeing the wr separation lately that we’ve ........


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:23 AM
 

had in the past. Not a play but an observation.

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays

[2]
Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 10:36 AM
 

I'd like to see a few more touchdown plays called, maybe a few more first down plays too. Other than that I'm happy.

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 3:14 PM
 

Just go all Oklahoma on every team we play.

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To answer your question 21-CU


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 7:16 PM
 

** More QB power. QB Sweeps.
**More tempo - see Syracuse LY. It kills the pass rush; but you have to accomplish next point.
**More game planning and emphasis on successful 1st down plays that can get you ahead of the chains. B/C you can't run tempo if you aren't getting 1st downs.
** I hear criticism of our OL ** could be. . IDK...again, tempo and success on early downs really wears out the pass rush. Which eventually does gives your QB time to pass it deep.
**More deep shots. . . no less than 12 per game(3 per qtr). Defenses will have to prepare for you and was a huge staple of the Art Briles Baylor offenses. B/C of that and some good seam passing(vertical routes down seam success) Baylor regularly was one of the top rushing teams in the country too. No Safety in the box!
**Cut out the bubble screen business for Pete's sake!
**Speed option.
**Mid-line option(KB).
**I was begging for them to roll the QB's out the pocket. Now the defense for that is to start sending a spy go get the QB. Do that with the talent we have at WR and you will lose more than you win. If the QB gets the ball out quick. It also opens up shovel passes and throw backs!

Not the one to complain - I do think we have become somewhat predictable on offense!

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 11:21 AM
 

I think the Tigers should install a contraire type offense like the Single Wing.



The Unbalanced Single-Wing of Fritz Crisler at Michigan, Bernie Bierman at Minnesota, Charley Caldwell at Princeton and George Munger at Penn. Its best-known present-day practitioner is Dr. Ken Keuffel.

www.coachwyatt.com/singlewing.html

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 11:24 AM
 

When you have inferior talent is when you have to try that crap.

Stay focused ??

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 2:37 PM
 

21CU said:

When you have inferior talent is when you have to try that crap.

Stay focused ??




Just trying to help the TIGER offense out!

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 7:02 PM
 

Single wing is crap? Wrong, grasshopper.

I was a HB on a full-house T-formation my junior year of HS, then we changed to single wing and I was the S/S TE. When we went to single wing, we killed the opponents. Granted, the single wing is more limited in how many things can be done, but the things that are done are extremely difficult for a defense to deal with. The drawback to running a single wing today is that high/low blocks, leg whips and crack-back blocks are penalized. I couldn't have played without those in the repertoire. Much of today's spread attack is single wing based, but the true single wing primarily uses only one side of the field, so the spread option is more versatile - OTOH, running a counter or reverse on a single wing offense is a thing of beauty that often gains huge yardage because the flow normally goes the other way and the D gets caught in the tendency.

But crap? no, it's not - it's a beautiful offense when run correctly with some speed and talent and good play calling.

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What about a few old school plays?


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 4:34 PM
 

Like play action rather than the newer RPO. Or having both Feaster and ETN with 2 TEs in at the same time. That could cause some match up problems for LBs trying to keep up with them. Maybe some bootlegs? I see NFL teams still using the bootlegs and it seems to work nicely to pick up 5+ yards.

Not sure the old school stuff would work, but what I'd like to see is more mid range chunk plays. Consistently get 5+ yards per down, keep the clock running, and wear the opposing D down. When our D gets a 3 n' out, then repeat. Get 4 to 10 yards per play and just keep rolling.

To me, it seems like the calls are either runs up the middle, sideline passes, or deep balls. I want the medium game to shine so the team can get in rhythm.

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Re: What about a few old school plays?


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 6:45 PM
 


Like play action rather than the newer RPO. Or having both Feaster and ETN with 2 TEs in at the same time. That could cause some match up problems for LBs trying to keep up with them. Maybe some bootlegs? I see NFL teams still using the bootlegs and it seems to work nicely to pick up 5+ yards.

Not sure the old school stuff would work, but what I'd like to see is more mid range chunk plays. Consistently get 5+ yards per down, keep the clock running, and wear the opposing D down. When our D gets a 3 n' out, then repeat. Get 4 to 10 yards per play and just keep rolling.

To me, it seems like the calls are either runs up the middle, sideline passes, or deep balls. I want the medium game to shine so the team can get in rhythm.




My God, the Tigers have @ tight ends!


GWTtiger must like that.

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Re: Love talking X’s & O’s With People So What Plays


Posted: Sep 11, 2018, 5:40 PM
 

21cu - I actually like the strategy that our coaches use. I explained this on Saturday I think, but I liken it to playing chess. We get a strong position, and then attempt to get to the end game while forcing the opponent to make desperate attempts to get even. More often than not, that strategy works well IMO. I actually enjoy watching when they go conservative and run clock, etc. It is at that point that I sit back and enjoy the show. Yes - TAM made miracle plays that made one question that strategy, but I for one hope that our coaches do not stray from their approach. You'll hear our players and coaches that winning by 1 is a win. I am in their camp on that. Doing this also allows our coaches to get the 2's, 3's, and 4's in the game, which makes me happy to see all those guys play. Even a great player like XT managed to extend a drive for TAM, but that learning experience will go with XT for his entire career I bet.

So for me - if you want to coach better, then just watch our coaches and follow their examples.

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