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Topic: No, Kirk Herbstreit, Willie is not a "great coach"
Replies: 25   Last Post: Nov 5, 2019, 4:43 PM by: T_I_P
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Replies: 25  

No, Kirk Herbstreit, Willie is not a "great coach"

[1]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:11 AM
 

He is an uninspiring coach and that was the "bad fit" you of which you speak. If Willie were, indeed, a "great coach," he'd have the backing of the whole 'nole nation.

Dabo had the full support of Terry Don, the trustees and the university president because they could see the potential for greatness in him. Willie? Clearly not. He's a small fish and belongs in a small pond.

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Herbie doesn't want to kick a man when he's down

[3]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:16 AM
 

I think he was being decent unlike a ###### bag like Finebum

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He could have politely said it's unfortunate, but


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:22 AM
 

Willie was simply in over his head. Calling him a great coach is like eulogizing some complete cad and extolling his great virtues.

Willie is a mediocre coach at best. Anyone who claims he's "great" loses credibility. Now, if Kirk had said he's a great guy, I would agree. Clearly a very fine person. As a coach? I've seen way more competence at the high school level.

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I agree I mean it would be pretty wreckless for Kirk to say


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 10:18 AM
 

" Long overdue that guy couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag with two holes in it."

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Re: I agree I mean it would be pretty wreckless for Kirk to say


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 2:24 PM
 

It also had to be wet.

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Re: No, Kirk Herbstreit, Willie is not a "great coach"

[2]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:19 AM
 

Actually a lot of folks were unhappy with the Dabo experiment from 2008-2010. 2009 calmed the fears a bit but 2010 had some rumbling.

While some where sharpening their pitchforks with Dabo, the pitchforks were already out against Willy from day 1. FSU folks just do not remember that late 2017 was a bit of dud for the coaching market besides frost to Nebraska. Kinda hard to do anything when the fanbase is already out for blood.

Again, the mistake wasn't FSU picking Taggert, but rather Taggert accepting FSU.


Good coach, sure... great is a stretch.

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Re: No, Kirk Herbstreit, Willie is not a "great coach"

[1]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:21 AM
 

You think Taggart shouldn't have accepted the job? I bet he's glad he did - $18M is not a bad cushion to fall on when things don't work out!

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Re: No, Kirk Herbstreit, Willie is not a "great coach"

[1]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 9:47 AM
 

From a financial aspect, it wasn't a bad gig... from a coaching legacy standpoint... yikes.

Taggart needs to wait a little bit, join Nicky's remedial school for fired coaches (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TepQfqURyY)

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Dabo had the full support of the AD,


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:31 AM
 

Trustees and President. Didn't matter early on if the fan base was mixed on Dabo. Everyone in a position to make decisions regarding Dabo knew they had a potentially great leader. They were right and they stuck with him.

Willie couldn't inspire that confidence in his AD, Trustees, or President. They realized he is not a great coach. Too bad for all concerned that it was a terrible hire.

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Re: No, Kirk Herbstreit, Willie is not a "great coach"


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:30 AM
 

Wow! Hiding behind a computer screen typing sure does make some people feel it’s ok to be a jerk!
You know I don’t know Willie Taggart.
I am glad some people like Kirk Herbstreit still have some class and manors.

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It makes me a jerk for saying Herbstreit


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:38 AM
 

loses credibility for calling Taggart a great coach? Wow. So you really think Kirk believes Willie is a great coach? And you think so too?

Sorry for hurting your sensibilities, but that is BS. Willie is simply not a great coach. Probably a great guy, but a very mediocre coach.

But you keep calling people jerks for pointing out an obvious coat of sugar on a bitter pill of truth.

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We don't really know how good a coach....


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:59 AM
 

Willie Taggart is based on his time at FSU. He coached what? 16 games? LOL.

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The thing is, he's never been the head coach


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 9:15 AM
 

for very long anywhere he's gone. FSU hiring a guy with so little resume is a head scratcher.

And since someone will immediately point out Dabo's lack of resume, Dabo was here for several years and had impressed with his leadership. He also served as interim and gave a sample of the kind of head coach he'd be. He had the support of the hierarchy. The rest is history.

FSU set themselves back with that hire. The good news for them is they can rebound quickly with the hire of a great leader. They need a huge personality who generates a lot of confidence in the program. A great CEO who presents an inspiring face for the program and who builds a great staff. FSU will be back sooner than later if they make a great hire.

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We don't really know how good a coach....


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 8:59 AM
 

Willie Taggart is based on his time at FSU. He coached what? 16 games? LOL.

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Dabo didn't go 9-12

[2]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 9:59 AM
 

He inherited some talent but not like the talent tagger did.

Dabos worst season was his second which he went 6-7. He went 10-4 the next year .

His only draw back was losing to scar but when you win 10+ games a year, you can over look that last regular season game.



If dabo had done 5-7 his third year..who knows what would have happen. His 1st contract didn't have a mega buyout.
I can definitely tell you tnet didn't have his back those first few years.


As for taggert...I agree. his records at Oregon and fsu clearly indicate he isn't ready to run a big time team.

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Re: Dabo didn't go 9-12

[2]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 10:13 AM
 

He took a cratering Oregon team (4 wins the previous season) and won 7 games. Not a bad 1 year turn around. Took 2-10 USF to a 10-2 in 4 years.

The difference in Dabo and Taggert was that Dabo kept the kids motivated and Taggert's kids quit. You could see them quitting.

Taggert inherited a lot more program rot than Dabo did and had talented but unmotivated players. Say what you will about Tommy, but he built a solid foundation, but could not raise the roof. In FSU's case, the roof was collapsing due to a bad foundation. FSU were not Taggerts kids (Jimbo class players) unlike Dabo who was basically already recruiting his own high moral character kids.

I expect Taggert to pop back up and be a fairly successful long-term midlevel coach. I see him as being very similar to a Cutcliffe-style coach. But conditions at FSU were way worse than anyone thought.

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Taggart's reputation was built on going 10-2


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 10:30 AM
 

at USF. 7-5 at Oregon is really not impressive.

As for the job he did at USF, it's the AAC. From there he goes to the abysmal PAC12 and manages a winning season. Yawn.

BTW, 0-1 bowl record. Small sample size, but it does say something about results against good competition.

I like the suggestion that he would do well to learn from someone like Saban. Don't think Saban would help with the bland personality though.


Message was edited by: David78®


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that's how it happens

[1]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 10:48 AM
 

You get a good record and you bolt for the 1st job you can nab.

History is full of Butch Davises and Al Goldens.

Taggart really made out in this deal. He'll be making money off FSU for awhile.

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Re: that's how it happens


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 11:27 AM
 

and Tommy Bowden

Keep in mind, the 2017 coaching options were thin and the few good coaches were basically already claimed. (Mullen to UF, Frost to Neb). Taggert might have been the best of what was left but I don't think they could have gotten anything better... I still think he could have done more with more time but I understand the firing after watching the Miami game. No fire, no progress.

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I agree Tommy was a similar hire after his


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 12:27 PM
 

undefeated season at Tulane. Tommy was a good bit better than Willie, though.

As for FSU got the best available at the time: they could have had their pick of a whole lot of excellent coordinators at the very least.

I guess the bottom line is you really don't know who you've hired until you see the product on the field. A great coordinator may make a great head coach, but it has to be proven. A head coach who did well in one system isn't a guarantee for your system.

I'm just surprised that a program as great as FSU has been couldn't get it more right than they did. Was their success all due to Bobby Bowden? Was his retirement the same as letting the air out of FSU's tires? Is the administration there that incompetent that they couldn't find a leader good enough to keep them relevant?

I have to disagree that they had to settle for Taggart because all the good options had been taken. That was a poor hire. They could have and should have done better. They better get it right this time. Another mistake will be disaster.

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Re: Dabo didn't go 9-12


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 12:45 PM
 

I believe Taggart was (and is) a decent coach. Great? Not sure but time will tell.

But I do believe that FSU was and still is a dumpster fire. I am not sure we can judge him based on FSU's record.

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Re: Dabo didn't go 9-12

[1]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 2:22 PM
 

It probably helped that Dabo was already a coach on the Clemson staff and all the players knew him and seemed to like him. I remember Spiller saying he'd come back for his senior season if Dabo was hired as the full time head coach.

Taggert didn't have that same advantage, and his players had to hear the displeasure from the fans right from the start which couldn't have helped with him earning the respect of his team. I'm not saying things would've gone perfectly for him had he gotten the full support of the AD and fans from the start along with a little patience, but he really didn't get the support he needed right from the start.

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Re: No, Kirk Herbstreit, Willie is not a "great coach"


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 12:33 PM
 

Agree with your first statement, but not the 2nd. There were LOTS of Dabo haters, especially on this board. I remember it clearly.

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WTH put buttermilk in DHood's sugar pops?

[1]
Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 2:12 PM
 

Wholly hail...talk about grumpy!

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¯\_(?)_/¯


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 2:31 PM
 

first, FSU was a dumpster fire just getting started when they lured Taggart. It didn't get any better. Seems as though the turmoil that contributed to Jimbo leaving was still going on, otherwise why would they not spend on the program expanding facilities, but be willing to pay $18mil buyout?

second, why get upset over Herbstriet calling him a great coach? Taggart was in over his head with what looked like no support from the administration. To compare his situation with Dabo doesn't help prove he's not a great coach.

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Depends how you define "great"


Posted: Nov 5, 2019, 4:43 PM
 

there are tens of thousands of football coaches in the country and if you are one of the 64 few who get a power 5 head coaching job, I would argue that is "great" by default

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