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Legend [16733]
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Can we boost our basketball program through architecture?
Feb 10, 2013, 11:19 AM
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We obviously don't have a rich basketball tradition that coincides with an historic coliseum like Duke and Cameron Indoor Stadium. IF we build a new basketball coliseum I wonder if we can use its design to boost its image. I'm not simply talking about having all the bells and whistles inside. I'm talking about an exterior deign that is a departure from most building on campus. I'd classify our architecture on campus as being very conservative. I'm not sure if the athletes we need in our bball program are lured to conservative. They certainly are not lured by our tradition. In football we get the athletes because we do have that tradition even though Death Valley is relatively conservative in design.
I know non traditional is not widely accepted at clemson but we need something to break the cycle of (except for a few streaks here and there) being very average and many years being below average. IF you go this route of a very non traditional design I think you need to really push the envelope and make it extremely radical.
We have smart guys on the BOT. We have an excellent architecture school. Heck even Barker is an architect (I'm not sure if he ever worked in the field or not). Doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results is the vision of a near sighted leader. This is what we have done with our bball program. We have tried to upgrade Littlejohn when we should have bulldozed it. Instead we gave it a facelift while other schools were building new facilities. Here s a list of ACC schools with coliseums less than 10 years old:
NC State
Miami
UNC
Maryland
UVA
Wake Forest
GT (even though it it not technically a new arena the only thing from the old building is the roof)
From the old ACC only FSU, duke and clemson are missing from this list. Duke s excused because of their tradition, so that leaves 2 football schools who have not stepped up to the plate and built new arenas.
Selecting Bobby Robinson as our AD set the path of subpar facilities and teams in most sports for many years. I think we are just now recovering from the Robinson years. (Why was he hire in the first place?). If I remember correcty he was in the press stating we could not build the WEZ and did he not have the know how to raise the money to do it. Bobby was very conservative had little vision in my opinion. I think Dan Rad is made from a different mold and challenges status quo and will build a new coliseum.
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Hall of Famer [22388]
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Our feathered friends in Columbia have a new facility
Feb 10, 2013, 11:27 AM
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but it doesn't seem to be helping. Not sure that is the solution.
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Legend [18133]
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True. Kinda blows my gangsta theory, too.
Feb 10, 2013, 11:55 AM
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Kinda. 
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Legend [16058]
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Legend [16733]
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Legend [17308]
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UNC's dean dome opened in 1986.***
Feb 10, 2013, 11:29 AM
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Expert [1102]
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Wake's Joel Coliseum opened in 1989***
Feb 10, 2013, 11:31 AM
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Legend [16733]
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Re: Wake's Joel Coliseum opened in 1989***
Feb 10, 2013, 12:04 PM
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Yes I think I missed a few of the actual dates. Time flies when you get old. Lol
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Expert [1102]
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Clemson doesn't have money to build a new coliseum now
Feb 10, 2013, 11:32 AM
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Esp when the renovations to Littlejohn are pretty recent.
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Legend [16058]
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I'm pretty sure our renovations to Littlejohn cost around...
Feb 10, 2013, 12:05 PM
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$40 Million. Do you know how much money we've thrown football's way the last 10-12 years since Littlejohn was renovated? Probably 5-10 times that. The new museum/oculus/indoor practice facility alone is going to cost $40 million.
I have no problem throwing money at football but basketball needs at least a little attention. We are not on par with our conference.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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the rad might be the guy to sell your vision...
Feb 10, 2013, 11:33 AM
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tdp addressed the aesthetic in this 2011 presentation.
On the importance of the design and aesthetic qualities of the current project: “It was really important that when you visit the facilities and drive by the facilities that they tie together aesthetically, and that we not just have a hodgepodge of functional buildings that look different. We're going to have a consistent look in our facilities from building to building, whether it be in the bricking or the awnings or the overall design. That was extremely important has we began putting all this together.”
http://www.orangeandwhite.com/news/2011/jan/17/terry-don-phillips-facilities-youre-not-going-out/
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Legend [16733]
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Re: the rad might be the guy to sell your vision...
Feb 10, 2013, 12:02 PM
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How do you find these things? Lol
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CU Medallion [67844]
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Re: Can we boost our basketball program through architecture?
Feb 10, 2013, 11:35 AM
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I think UNC's is older than 10 but still state of the art. Wakes may be older too. Your point is a good one.
Personally I dont think a new arena helps us much. And if it would why did we waste millions on a remodel just a few years ago. kind of like the indoor track / football facility that suddenly wasnt suitable for that so we had to build a new indoor facility.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: Can we boost our basketball program through architecture?
Feb 10, 2013, 11:50 AM
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The roof in Littlejohn was discovered needing replacement after the facelift began or maybe it caught on fire during the renovation I don't remember which one it was. But the roof accounted for several million dollars I think and was an unplanned expense.
Message was edited by: Tiger Contractor®
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CU Medallion [67844]
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Re: Can we boost our basketball program through architecture?
Feb 10, 2013, 11:57 AM
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I dont recall a fire. I think that was at the UVa indoor fb facility. YOu are right about the unplanned roof thing. Still leads me to the same conclusion. we did a half a'ed job on the remodel and didnt care enough to check the roof before. we just stick duct tape on something and proclaim it fixed. This bait and switch philosophy bother me.
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CU Medallion [52375]
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Yes, there was a fire...saw it from my office window
Feb 10, 2013, 12:05 PM
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It was not an all-engulfing fire, but it did damage.
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Scout Team [182]
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Re: Can we boost our basketball program through architecture?
Feb 10, 2013, 11:55 AM
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Certainly no sports arena expert. But exterior of LJ is absolutely ugly. Doesn't Clemson have an architecture dept?
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CU Medallion [58415]
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This begs the bigger questions - what is the expectation for
Feb 10, 2013, 11:59 AM
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our basketball program and can Clemson really ever get there?
I think our goal should be to win the ACC Championship, and knowing that we won't do that every year, at least compete for it on a regular basis. That should be the goal and the expectation.
The problem with that is that an alarming number of the Clemson faithful seem to think that is an impossible goal thus an unreasonable expectation.
For those of us who believe it is possible to compete in the ACC, I think a new, modern arena and facilities is a necessary step. Having a new arena itself in no way guarantees that we reach our goals, but I don't believe we can without it.
If the naysayers are correct, and we are a football-only school that simply can't compete in basketball and never, ever will, then we should decide now to spend as little on basketball as possible, stop the silly talk about a new arena, and declare to never spend another dime on Littlejohn, just let it stand exactly as is until it crumbles to the ground. In fact, if we have set the bar that low and think that little of our basketball program, then just end it now.
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CU Medallion [52375]
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Exactly
Feb 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
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If you are going to have a program, then invest in it enough to ensure that it has success. And it's not going to be resolved with just the building--that means invest more in the coaching staff and any other relevant expenses.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: This begs the bigger questions - what is the expectation for
Feb 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to This begs the bigger questions - what is the expectation for ] |
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Well said. Why field a team if you don't have the expectations of winning a championship? Whatever we are doing now just ain't getting it done and a course correction is needed.
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Orange Blooded [3351]
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You left Clemson off the list
Feb 10, 2013, 12:06 PM
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Littlejohn reopened in 2003 after a $31 million renovation. I really hope the university has recouped that investment if the trustees are now talking about doing something else.
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Legend [16058]
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You do realize our only major investment in basketball...
Feb 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
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was $31 million a decade ago? It sounds like a lot at face value, but when you consider we've invested around $200-300 million in football facilities since then, it pales in comparison.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: You do realize our only major investment in basketball...
Feb 10, 2013, 12:20 PM
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We have sent under $50 million on Littlejohn including the regional building costs.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: You left Clemson off the list
Feb 10, 2013, 12:16 PM
[ in reply to You left Clemson off the list ] |
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The list is of new arenas not remodeled ones.
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