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Topic: Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players
Replies: 33   Last Post: Mar 29, 2019, 3:29 PM by: Judge Keller®
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Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players

[2]
Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:13 AM
 

this is his 11th player to transfer out in his tenure. I realize an occasional player may transfer here or there, but to average over 1 per year I would think is above normal. Some of these were going to be bench players, but most left early in their career so who knows how they would have developed into junior and senior years. Also, it is vital to hold onto some of these because it is important for continuity and getting production off the bench.

Players to leave:
1. Cory Stanton- after freshman year
2. TJ Sapp- after sophomore year
3. Devin Coleman- after redshirt sophomore year
4. Bernard Sullivan- after sophomore year
5. Adonis Filer- after sophomore year
6. Austin Ajukwa- after junior year
7. Patrick Rooks- after redshirt freshman year
8. Ty Hudson- after redshirt sophomore year
9. Scott Spencer-after sophomore year
10. Anthony Oliver- after redshirt freshman year
11. Javan White- graduate transfer

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Re: Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:21 AM
 

If he yells at players in practice like he constantly does in games I can understand why some might leave.

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How does that compare to other comparable programs?


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:37 AM
 

We have certainly benefited from players transferring to Clemson to play for Brad. Can't fault player or coach for transferring when kids signed up to play for OP then wanted to go somewhere else when a new coach was hired. Mass transfers seems like the norm in college basketball now.

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none of these were op recruits


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:48 AM
 

all of these players were recruited and signed by BB. There were no mass transfers out when he was hired. The players listed transferred steadily throughout his tenure

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Ok, yes I understand the way I wrote my response


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:00 AM
 

is a little confusing. My point was, it's natural for kids to transfer out when a new coach comes in. But over the last 10 years the college basketball landscape has changed a lot (so has football for that matter) when it comes to transfers. Seems like every program is experiencing this, but I don't know if the data supports that or not.

So the question is, how does this compare with other comparable programs?

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got it, and im not sure, I just thought 1 every season


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:11 AM
 

seemed a bit much. I would think, based on no data just my gut, that 1 every other year or 2 would be more closer to todays normal.

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Not exactly a


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:40 AM
 

who's who of recent all-american types.

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We’ll never know.***


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:43 AM
 



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Really? I assumed by transfer


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:46 AM
 

the OP meant that these players transferred to another school and played basketball.

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ever heard of bench production


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:55 AM
 

see original post and post below. It is vital to maintain a good bench with guys that may not be starter quality but can give good minutes. Would you rather sub in a junior or senior with experience or a freshman/sophomore with little to no experience.

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Re: ever heard of bench production


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 10:01 AM
 

Yes I have heard of bench production. It's important to have.

But, when the writing is on the w that you are never going to start, it's a good idea to transfer.

Anthony Oliver got PASSED by Newman and Tyson prior to the season. That is why he transferred.

Javan White wasn't going to start next year. That is why he transferred.

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again, they may not be starters, but its important to


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:49 AM
 

maintain a good bench where you can sub in a year 3 or 4 guy for a few minutes rather than a freshman or sophomore. Our bench was very lacking this year.

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Valid point. My point is that

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:58 AM
 

perhaps some of them realized they were over their heads in the ACC...or perhaps some of them were encouraged to look around if they wanted more minutes. I don't know....but that is a possibility.

And yes, if true, that may speak to recruiting issues.

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I can see that, but we have to find a way to motivate


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:09 AM
 

players to stay and be excited about their role in the team. Kind of like Dabo, he seems he tries to find a way to make everyone feel important in their role. Emphasize their opportunity here. I would think you could stress to players they would get more impact for their future here against acc competition and playing less minutes than going to a small school and although playing more they are playing against less competition.

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Re: Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:42 AM
 

ncaa stats show that over 40% of players transfer at least once in their career.. and the numbers are increasing each year. it is not a problem only for brownell/clemson, it is across the ncaa.

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I understand this but I bet most schools


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:01 AM
 

comparable to us dont experience an avg of 1 per year. I may be wrong because I didnt look up other schools, but on the surface 1 per year from the same school seems a bit high. I would think maybe 1 every other year or 2 would be more on par.

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^^^this^^^***


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 11:37 AM
 



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Re: Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:55 AM
 

jgtiger said:

this is his 11th player to transfer out in his tenure. I realize an occasional player may transfer here or there, but to average over 1 per year I would think is above normal. Some of these were going to be bench players, but most left early in their career so who knows how they would have developed into junior and senior years. Also, it is vital to hold onto some of these because it is important for continuity and getting production off the bench.

Players to leave:
1. Cory Stanton- after freshman year
2. TJ Sapp- after sophomore year
3. Devin Coleman- after redshirt sophomore year
4. Bernard Sullivan- after sophomore year
5. Adonis Filer- after sophomore year
6. Austin Ajukwa- after junior year
7. Patrick Rooks- after redshirt freshman year
8. Ty Hudson- after redshirt sophomore year
9. Scott Spencer-after sophomore year
10. Anthony Oliver- after redshirt freshman year
11. Javan White- graduate transfer



Reach much? In case you haven’t noticed transferring has become an epidemic in college b-ball

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Re: Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 8:55 AM
 

jgtiger said:

this is his 11th player to transfer out in his tenure. I realize an occasional player may transfer here or there, but to average over 1 per year I would think is above normal. Some of these were going to be bench players, but most left early in their career so who knows how they would have developed into junior and senior years. Also, it is vital to hold onto some of these because it is important for continuity and getting production off the bench.

Players to leave:
1. Cory Stanton- after freshman year
2. TJ Sapp- after sophomore year
3. Devin Coleman- after redshirt sophomore year
4. Bernard Sullivan- after sophomore year
5. Adonis Filer- after sophomore year
6. Austin Ajukwa- after junior year
7. Patrick Rooks- after redshirt freshman year
8. Ty Hudson- after redshirt sophomore year
9. Scott Spencer-after sophomore year
10. Anthony Oliver- after redshirt freshman year
11. Javan White- graduate transfer



Reach much? In case you haven’t noticed transferring has become an epidemic in college b-ball

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Time for a coaching change


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:10 AM
 

The mass exodus should tell Radakovich the state of the basketball program.

How bad must it be that players are jumping ship?????!!!!!

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that wasnt my point and its no mass exodus


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:15 AM
 

its only a player here and a player there, but its a steady pattern. I just thought the number seemed high and could point to our lack of consistent bench play. Not sure what the answer is, was mainly just pointing out what I thought was a higher than normal transfer rate.

link

I get exactly what you’re saying.


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:38 AM
 

To me it’s a concern. I know what the transfer numbers say, but why not be different? Dabo Swinney is on record of saying that he doesn’t run kids off, and it’s “till graduation we do part”. He doesn’t run guys off, and holds his coaches accountable for bad scholarship offers. How can you ever create a positive and winning culture if you’ve got a revolving door of transfers coming in and out the program?

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Re: Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:39 AM
 

Do y’all know that 00% of his recruited players has degrees?

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Re: Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:40 AM
 

Dang! That should be 100%

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I do not think KJ ever graduated


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:51 AM
 

still thats an impressive stat. Im assuming this only includes who stayed and did not transfer.

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Re: Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:46 AM
 

Didn’t Rod Hall graduate?

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He's not a good talent evaluator or developer. White was 3

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:54 AM
 

years removed from high school when Brownell signed him, Should have had some idea of the type of player he was by then.

With so few scholarships for basketball, it becomes much more important to use them efficiently to evaluate, recruit and develop talent. The fans would enjoy more high school players that develop over their 3, 4, or 5 years here.

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Re: Brownell seems to have a hard time holding onto players


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 9:59 AM
 

If players are transferring because of playing time, is it the coaches fault? In most of these transfer instances it's because of playing time.

I guess your making the argument that coach Brownell is out-recruiting their position. Since you have done so much research on when people transferred, could you also do research on what their #'s were at the school they transferred to? The only good player out of that whole bunch was Devin Coleman. I was sad to see him go.

Also your point about him yelling at players is ridiculous. Snowflake.

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870 something players transfered LAST year


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 10:15 AM
 

That's one thing you can't put on BB.

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Oversigning in football is a common occurrence.


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 10:19 AM
 

Dabo has never used that approach.

You don't have to follow the sheep over the cliff.

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W T F ?


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 10:46 AM
 

Where was Dabo involved in 870 Basketball transfers ?

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All turned into All Americans and Lotto picks in the draft.***


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 10:44 AM
 



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Re: All turned into All Americans and Lotto picks in the draft.***

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 11:09 AM
 

What's funny is that this whole thread about people transferring is meant to trash Brownell, but it actually shows that he is improving his recruiting.

If any of these players transferred and ended up being studs wherever they went, you would have a point. But guess what??? Not a single one of them have.

Anthony Oliver: Tyson and Newman passed him

Javan White: Baehre passed him

Ajukwa: Blossomgame and Grantham passed him

Patrick Rooks: Avery Holmes and Gabe Devoe passed him

Bernard Sullivan: Jaron Blossomgame passed him

Cory Stanton: Not much needs to be said.

Ty Hudson: Shelton Mitchell/Marquise Reed

Scott Spencer: He just wasn't good.

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They will criticize him regardless.


Posted: Mar 29, 2019, 3:29 PM
 

If a player we signed out of high school doesn't develop as they think he should, Brad is a bad evaluator of talent and/or doesn't develop players well.

If a player we signed out of high school transfers elsewhere, Brad is losing too many transfers.

If we obtain a player via transfer, we are relying too heavily on transfers and not enough on high school recruits.

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Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


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