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Topic: Michael Jordan question?
Replies: 46   Last Post: Jun 19, 2019, 11:07 AM by: cufan®
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Replies: 46  

Michael Jordan question?


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:14 PM
 

He played in the NBA 15 seasons.

He only got to the Finals 6 times.

What about those other 9 seasons?

Just asking.

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Re: Michael Jordan question?


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:20 PM
 

No supporting cast. No Pipen, No Kerr, No Rodman, No Grant, and etc. When he was drafted, the Bulls were pretty lean on talent.

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Thanks, so he did not win by himself***


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:20 PM
 

.

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Re: Thanks, so he did not win by himself***

[3]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:28 PM
 

Nobody ever has.

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Wilt is the only one you could argue***


Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 8:09 AM
 



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I agree about Kerr, every great player needs someone to punch in the face

[2]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:31 PM
 

I joke, but Kerr was far from an impact player. Unless it was his face. Again, a joke.

Might as well say 'no Paxton'. Kerr was a great roll player, but he was not a difference maker. Toni Kukoc was the 4th superstar on the 2nd 3-peat.

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Re: I agree about Kerr, every great player needs someone to punch in the face

[1]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 5:50 PM
 

There were many on those championship teams better and more impactful than Kerr but I can't count the times when things were blah, blah and he would hit a 3 pointer that spurred a run. Considering he still has the highest 3 point percentage made in the NBA for anyone with more than 250 three point shots, that's not too bad.

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He was also a great role player


Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 8:11 AM
 

;)

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Re: Michael Jordan question?

[2]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:27 PM
 

He went to the Bulls as the 2nd pick in the draft, so the Bulls were awful and the Pistons were great. Bulls took time to build. Then he played for a junk Wizards team past his prime.

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I think he was the third pick in the draft.

[1]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 5:42 PM
 

I was a super fan of his growing up and he’s still my favorite player to thi day.

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Re: I think he was the third pick in the draft.

[1]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 7:50 PM
 

1984 NBA Draft
1. Akeem Olajuwon - Houston Rockets
2. Sam Bowie - Portland Trail Blazers
3. Michael Jordan - Chicago Bulls

QB's in 2017 NFL Draft
1. Mitchell Trubisky - Chicago Bears
2. Patrick Mahomes - Kansas City Chiefs
3. Deshaun Watson - Houston Texans

Hmmm....

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I saw a stat line the other day that was interesting...


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:29 PM
 

Four years ago the Warriors beat a Lebron led Cleveland team for a championship.

However, LBJ was super impressive in the series, averaging:

35.8 PPG
13.3 REB
8.8 AST
1.3 STL
39.8 FG%
45.7 MIN
Led BOTH teams in PTS, AST, REB (1st time ever)

Yet his team lost, and he is considered a choker and a failure.

Would Michael Jordan have made a difference in the series?

In Michael Jordan's 6 Finals appearances...he averaged:

33.6 PPG
6 REB
6 AST
1.8 STL
48.1 FG%
43 MIN

Obviously, 33 points a game is not enough to win. POINT: He had just as much help.

I am not sure how the competition stacked up. I think Kevin Durant is probably better than John Stockton.

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6x finals MVP speaks for itself


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:39 PM
 

LeBron, for as great of a player he is, will never be the closer MJ was. Their is just no comparison.

Thank you WGN! I got to watch the greatest player of all-time throughout my childhood.

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Your right...he does not have the killer instinct...


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:46 PM
 

If the game is tied...he takes the hero shot all day every day, because there is nothing to lose.

If his team is behind...he probably passes it off.

LBJ is not the same level of scorer MJ was.

LBJ is different. He has traits of all the greats rolled into one. He is still amazing.

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Re: 6x finals MVP speaks for itself


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 7:51 PM
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/did-lebron-james-it-michael-jordan-make-more-insane-clutch-shots-912104%3famp=1

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Re: I saw a stat line the other day that was interesting...


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:40 PM
 

Do you think if Wade and Bosh had been in Cleveland with James (like Miami), they could or would have won?

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Re: I saw a stat line the other day that was interesting...


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:43 PM
 

And Ray Allen..

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Ray Allen is needed...LBJ is not a 3 point specialist.***


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:47 PM
 

.

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With that collection of talent, YES.***


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:46 PM
 

.

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Michael never lost a finals. If he got there,

[1]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 5:46 PM
 

he would have willed his team to victory. A perfect example is that finals game that he had the flu. He could barely stand up at the end of the game but he had a great game and a w.

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Re: I saw a stat line the other day that was interesting...

[1]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 7:40 PM
 

Not just about stats

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Re: I saw a stat line the other day that was interesting...


Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 7:25 AM
 

Stats do not prove who is better. If Jordan played in this league today he would average close to 40 per game no question. He would be unstoppable with the defense they play.

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Of his 15 seasons in the NBA, 13 were with the Bulls...

[2]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:33 PM
 

and unless I'm mistaken, the Bulls made the playoffs each of those 13 years (losing in the first round, the conference semi-finals or the conference finals).

His last two year in the league with the Wizards, the team did not make the playoffs.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Of his 15 seasons in the NBA, 13 were with the Bulls...


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:39 PM
 

How many coaches /GMs did Jordan ever have fired because he was not getting his way.

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That part I do not like...


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:44 PM
 

But times are different now. Players have control. Not the owners.

You see this happening all over in every sport now.

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Just wondering why his teams lost all those times.

[1]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 4:42 PM
 

9 different seasons is a lot of times.

The way we talk about him, you would think he never lost.

Now his Finals record being 6 of 6 is amazing.

How much of that was surrounding talent and opposition?

He was great, and is probably the GOAT, but MJ and LBJ are not even the same type of player.

MJ is much more like Kobe in comparison.

LBJ is something we have never seen before. He is different. He is lots of great players combined.

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The bulls were a terrible team when he first

[2]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 6:04 PM
 

got drafted. He got beat up physically by the pistons bad boy teams a couple of years before overcoming them and getting to the finals. Back then, Detroit would triple team him and try to make anyone else on the bulls make a basket. I really believe that had he not retired the first time that he could have won 8 titles in a row and had they not dismantled the team in 98 then he could have won 9 but that’s a lot of if’s and buts. lol

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Re: Just wondering why his teams lost all those times.

[1]
Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 9:56 PM
 

Are you really wondering why Michael Jordan lost to teams like the Larry Bird Celtics or the Bad Boy Pistons when he didn't have a single player on his team who was an All Star during those years?

The man played in the much, much, much harder conference, and the very first year that he had a teammate reach All Star status, he won the championship. From that point on it was over, and the only thing that prevented an 8-peat was the fact that he retired twice.

Sure, if MJ was playing trash like the Indiana Pacers with Oladipo last year or going up against a Celtics team without Kyrie or Hayward in the conference Finals, he probably would have made the Finals earlier in his career. For anyone who wants to throw out a pithy comment about Kevin Durant being better than John Stockton, I'd suggest you go back and look at the level of competition in the Eastern Conference during MJ's career versus the supposedly amazing Finals run that LBJ had where he always had the better team in a weak East (with possible exception of last year when there were no great teams in the East and the Cs made the ECF without two All Stars even playing).

I know one thing is for sure...Michael Jordan even at age 40 with the Wizards never looked like a human turnstile on defense like Lebron has looked the past several seasons, and if you want to talk about level of competition in the Finals, please let me know how the 2011 Finals turned out since I assume the Heat won with a vastly superior roster led by LBJ. Imagine Michael Jordan getting called out and punked by a role player like little Jason Terry in the NBA Finals. Imagine Jet Terry and JJ freaking Barea taking turns dancing on the GOAT in the NBA Finals. You can't because it's unimaginable.

I really wish we could have seen MJ play in a league with no handchecking. He'd average 45 a game if you couldn't touch him. Unlike LBJ, he was a great FT shooter and didn't shy away from contact late in games because he doubted his free throw shot.

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+1 for “pithy”


Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 10:28 PM
 

I agree MJ was probably better.

But LBJ has been pretty great and is definitely top 5 all time, if not #2 when it’s all said and done.

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Re: +1 for “pithy”


Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 10:40 PM
 

LBJ is certainly top five and could very well be #2 as you say. I will say though that watching him play defense not just this year but the last several years has made it pretty insulting in some ways to compare him to MJ. Jordan was a beast on both ends of the floor and made defense a priority, even when he was 40 with the Wizards (and nobody considers that to be the "real" MJ). Even in his final year with the Bulls at age 35, Jordan was first team all-defense and #6 in individual defensive ranking across the entire NBA. Night and day from the dogging it that we have seen from Lebron on the defensive end. Keep in mind that Jordan still led the league in scoring that year as well...with handchecking allowed.

I'll say it again...you don't choke in the NBA Finals when you have a hand picked superteam that you assembled around you, especially when role players like Jet Terry have the audacity to tell the press that you can't guard them or do anything to stop them from winning. At least you don't do that if you want to come after the GOAT title. No complaining about KD hitting threes in your face like he did the last two NBA Finals repeatedly...this was Dallas with an older Dirk and a bunch of misfit role players.

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Re: Of his 15 seasons in the NBA, 13 were with the Bulls...


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 5:46 PM
 

MJ also never lost a playoff series to a lower seeded team. How about Lebron??

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Are ya'll forgetting Horace Grant?


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 5:28 PM
 

NM

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Re: Michael Jordan question?


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 5:33 PM
 

Bill Russell won 11 titles. Top that

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50-60 years ago. Kind of difficult to compare that era to


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 5:50 PM
 

the 1990s or 2010s.

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Re: Michael Jordan question?


Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 11:43 PM
 

Let's leave out the part about there only being 8 teams in the league. Seems relevant.

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Re: Michael Jordan question?

[2]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 5:40 PM
 

All I can say is the Bulls were so much more exciting to watch with Jordan, Pippen, and Grant than any team I've seen lately. Maybe for me, it had something to do with Clemson's Horace Grant being a part of such a team. Tbh, I've never seen a player as electrifying on the court as MJ.

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"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Re: Michael Jordan question?

[2]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 6:17 PM
 

I know that I have never watched nor have been more into the NBA than when the Bulls were playing for their championships. I'm sure it was MJ, Grant and others, and just to see what in the world Rodman would do next. They were talented and fun to watch (on and off the court).

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Remember the team entrance?

[2]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019, 10:46 PM
 

It was the best in basketball. Intro is at about 1:20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB5sThQEj1s

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"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Re: Michael Jordan question?

[1]
Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 8:19 AM
 

I don't think we should forget that Jordan and the Bulls had one of the best and most innovative coaches of the era. IMO, Phil Jackson was the glue that held the team together and brought out the best in each player.

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Re: Michael Jordan question?

[1]
Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 10:34 AM
 

Hey I barely watch the NBA, but I'll throw my opinion in anyway. From a pure athleticism standpoint, nobody can touch LeBron. He's built like an NFL DE, is incredibly sudden, and can jump out of the gym. When it comes to the mental aspect of the game and just pure will, the only guy that comes close to Jordan is Kobe. Ultimately, I think Jordan is the better player. While he certainly wasn't short-changed on physical attributes, he wasn't Lebron's size and still dominated. What cannot be ignored though is the fact that Jordan played under Phil Jackson who ran an actual offense while LeBron has spent most of his career propping up sub-par coaches who's primary offensive strategy has been to give LeBron the ball and hope something happens.

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Good points!!!***


Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 10:32 PM
 

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Re: Michael Jordan question?


Posted: Jun 19, 2019, 10:49 AM
 

LBJ props up coaches because he arranges for them to be hired/fired. Pat Riley is the only guy with enough clout to tell him to GTFO when he tried to pull rank in Miami. Phil is obv one of the all time great coaches, but much of the criticism for LBJ's coaches can be levied at LBJ himself for how he manipulates organizations.

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I prefer alumni v non - alumni: who da true fan topic during down time***


Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 10:57 AM
 



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Re: Michael Jordan question?

[1]
Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 3:24 PM
 

No question that Michael Jordan is the most hyped and most popular player of all time in the NBA. He came along right after Dr.J, Bird and Magic had solidified the brand and also at precisely the same time that cable TV went all in for televising the league. He was the beneficiary of being in the right place at exactly the right time for Nike, Wheaties, McDonalds, Coke, Gatorade and Chevrolet, which only added to his wealth, fame and popularity. Jordan was great, no question about it, but the coach who led the Bulls to 6 titles names Kareem as the best of all time. Interestingly, Kareem, when asked a couple of years ago if MJ or Lebron was the GOAT, replied that Oscar Robertson was better than either of them. For my money Kareem, Wilt and Russell were the best, as they played at a time when the emphasis was on inside scoring, although Kareem lasted until the 3 point era was firmly established. The centers they played against are almost all in the HOF, and about half are in the top 50 players of all time. It was a different game obviously, but then Jordan won his titles in an expansion diluted NBA in the 1990's. As Kareem has so eloquently argued, it's really impossible to compare eras in any sport, especially those who played before TV was ubiquitous. However, there is no question about the all time greatest athletic talent in the NBA. In the 1990's, the league put in place defensive rules to help Bird, Magic, Dr. J and Jordan score, while a generation earlier they changed the offensive rules to keep Wilt from scoring too much.

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Good points!!!***


Posted: Jun 18, 2019, 10:31 PM
 

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I have one for you. Are you a "LeBron is the greatest"


Posted: Jun 19, 2019, 9:09 AM
 

proponent? The "greatest player argument cannot be made off trips to the finals, or even number of championships. If it was, then Bill Russell is unquestionably the Greatest.

It is an eternal, unwinnable argument, but I will take Jordans 6 for 6 in finals, and his ability as a relatively small player to completely take over a game, and to take, and usually make, the last important shot when it really counted as my tenets for calling him the Greatest.

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Re: Michael Jordan question?


Posted: Jun 19, 2019, 11:07 AM
 

both are GREAT players but I'll take Jordan any time - heart of a champion

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