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Topic: QB was NOT our Problem
Replies: 34   Last Post: Jan 11, 2018, 4:30 PM by: lextiger551
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QB was NOT our Problem

[2]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 7:38 AM
 

And QB should not be our solution to getting back on the level of Alabama. The turnovers were FORCED turnovers. We simply COULD not or DID not block them and that is a lineman issue. Yes a GREAT QB might negate some of that but KB is an adequate QB provided we have some physicality on our OL.


Re: QB was NOT our Problem

emoji_events [10]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 7:46 AM
 

Slightly disagree. KB "wasn't" the problem per se but he caused the problem.

The issue is his down field throwing was never there. Every team, the second half of the season, played 7 in the box and dared him.

7 on 5 or 6 is obviously a problem. However against Miami, South Carolina and NC State, our talent was higher so we won.

With Bama, our talent didn't make up for the free man. So the oline collapsed. But it was because Bama didn't fear him throwing.


How is the line supposed to protect him when he ran

[3]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 7:54 AM
 

from the pocket almost every down? Saban new KB had this tendency and he exploited it.


Re: How is the line supposed to protect him when he ran


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 11:29 AM
 

Was he running when he got hit and threw the pick?


Re: QB was NOT our Problem

[2]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 7:59 AM
 

You got it. A lot of times it was 8 or 9 men Within 8 yards of the LOS. Theres just no way any o line will hold up all game when you have a team as talented as bama and they are able to scheme like they did. It’s not that KB played that badly but in this particular game, it’s what the defense knew he was incapable of doing that led to them demolishing our o line.


QB was a major problem, but not the only problem*****

[2]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 7:46 AM
 



2021 white level member

Agreed..it was the music***

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 7:50 AM
 



2021 white level member

KB severely limits us in the passing game


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 8:04 AM
 

There's no arguing against that


Based off what facts?***


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 8:20 AM
 



2021 white level member

huh?

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 9:23 AM
 

Passing correct?

He's only better than BC's, UNC's, and GT's QB's in passing TD's this year.

Rushing he's great. Passing he's worse than Syracuse and everyone else. Did you watch the games this year. He's serviceable as a Passer but if we're concerned about Championships and the CFP then he's not going get us there based on this years performance.Can he improve and be a passer next year. He'll have to.

Wakes QB who was hurt in our game threw league best 29 TD's, States Qb threw 17, Syracuse 14 FSU 19.. KB thew 13 and 9 INTS. KB was 10th in TD's and 7th in Yards. Serviceable. And with our Defense was just what we needed to win. He ran threw those teams and thats all we needed. But against the elite teams you gotta be able to do both consistently.

We tried to do our running QB thing and lateral passing thing and BAMA licked their chops and blitz and crowded us all night.

WE had the same line as last year. But a passer at QB that also could run. I think KB can lead us back to the CFP next year in the same manner as he did this year. I really have no doubts. But that might be where it ends if we play a competent defense and there will be a competent defense in the CFP.


I'm glad you brought up GT..

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 9:56 AM
 

Do you expect his passing to be epic?

Why do you expect KB? He ran the plays that were called , went 12-2 , won a acc champ and got into the cfp.

He did well in Miami, vt, scar.

How do you know he isnt a good passer?

1 game vs bama Is your justification? The only team to beat bama was auburn...you telling my Stidman is all world? Auburn was able to run on bama.

You say having Running qb was the problem vs bama? How bout no running game at all? How bout dropped balls? How bout bad pass protection? Bad field poisiton, bad play calling, poor substituionsm?


You are using a small set of circumstances to justify an agenda you have already established. You assume that the offense was chosen to fit kb. How do you know the offense was choSen to suit a bad #### defense?

2021 white level member

Re: I'm glad you brought up GT..


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 10:37 AM
 

OK can't we give the KB thing a rest? On a scale of 1-10 I see him as a 5. That has nothing to do with him as a person, he is a great young man. He is going to be hard pressed to keep his job this spring. So Let the process begin and may the best QB win.

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg


Re: I'm glad you brought up GT..

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 11:06 AM
 

We ran plays that benefited his strengths, and that is passing within 5 yds of the line of scrimmage and designed QB runs. Our defense bailed us out most close games this season. Had the ACC have more elite defense we could have dropped several games this season because of lack of a passing game. The ACC is weak enough that a good run game will get you to 12-0 easily.

2021 student level member

Again..how do you know this? Dib dabo tell you?

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 11:46 AM
 

Elliot? Streeter? Scott?

Kb passed well against scar, miami, luis, and vt...

Had the acc had better d's maybe they call more passing plays. If clemson didn't have a good d maybe kb 8s asked to pass more.

Maybe If asked too, kb throws more balls down field.

The coaches choose the plays for whatever reasons they want. They know, we don't.

What I do know is there are 30 people on the field on every play all running around doing different things, seeing different things. There are a couple dozen more on the sidelines calling the plays , substituting, and managing the game.

Football is never as simple as people make it out to be and no single player ever wins or loses a game.

2021 white level member

Good Lord, what games were you watching? He struggled to

[2]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 12:08 PM
 

pass against any D that had a pulse and a plan...Quit trying to run from the truth


Re: Again..how do you know this? Dib dabo tell you?


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 4:20 PM
 

The coaches called many more passes down the field with Watson, and with Boyd as well even though we had a different guy calling the plays. I don't think they decided to get more conservative in the calls just for the heck of it.

2021 white level member

Re: I'm glad you brought up GT..


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 3:40 PM
 

If the ACC is weak enough that a good run game will get you to 12-0 why did FSU go 6-6 (3-5 ACC)? They have just as much, if not more, talent than us. Also why is it that only 3 teams have gone 12-0 in the ACC since 2000? Also using your argument why isn't GT constantly going 12-0 or 11-1?

2021 student level member

Brad Brownell: more losses than any other coach in school history.


Re: I'm glad you brought up GT..


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 4:00 PM
 

> If the ACC is weak enough that a good run game will
> get you to 12-0 why did FSU go 6-6 (3-5 ACC)? They
> have just as much, if not more, talent than us. Also
> why is it that only 3 teams have gone 12-0 in the ACC
> since 2000? Also using your argument why isn't GT
> constantly going 12-0 or 11-1?

Are you saying KB would have made FSU a 12 win team? Or GT?


Re: I'm glad you brought up GT..


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 4:13 PM
 

FSU yes he very well could have.


Re: I'm glad you brought up GT..

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 11:47 AM
 

-Absolutely I do not expect Deshaun Watson stats from anyone. However we have help at WR and we shouldn’t be cellar dwellers in passing stats (someone in the booth understands this too apparently.)

-I expect exactly what we did this year. We are better than most teams we play on both sides. I expect KB to undefeated next year given our schedule (until the CFP when we’ll likely face a defense.)

-Compare his stats among other QB’s in just our conference then compare our WR talent to those teams. He’s serviceable in the passing game but outstanding in the running game. Serviceable works against those we are superior to but not that handful that we are equal to. (He and Jalen Hurts are very comparable(Hurts had 17 TD’s BTW but against worse competition.)

-I’m using the whole season as a measuring stick. There was an apparent lack of confidence in the passing game. He exceeded my expectations b/c I didn’t think he’d do any downfield passing this year based on the limited bit I’d seen of him previously. Stidham holds the ball and makes bad decisions at times but he is a passer I’lll say that. He’s not runner but the mere fact that he’s a threat to complete balls is what loosened up the defense that game.

-Against BAMA if you haven’t learned yet, you can’t beat them with just a running game. They’re too big to move off gaps, too fast to blow by with a fast RB, and to talented to fool them with misdirection. You have to be balanced. UGA (Fromm) got the ball out on time, hit multiple back shoulder laser throws which opened up the streaks as well, and opened up holes for the RB’s to sneak it with pressure release plays. If you recall BAMA started out with that same intensity/pressure against them but slowly stopped b/c Fromm was hitting his throws. We never hit our throws. (the drop by CAIN was a killer I’ll grant you b/c maybe that relieves some of that pressure but we all knew there wasn’t going to be much of threat in a 500 yard offensive game by Bryant like DW4 would do.(which mind you we won at last second with that much offense.)

BTW, I have no agenda. Just stated obvious observations. I think KB goes undefeated next year during the season. Our schedule should be manageable. But if you’re goal is to win the CFP trophy again you gotta play BAMA more than likely and this time they’ll have an offense. So you’ll need 35 points minimum to win that game. And you’ll need 300 yards and a couple of passing td’s from your QB. Which means tight windows from a passing style offense. We will again be a misdirection/run first style offense under KB. Its just fact. Will not match up well with BAMA again if that’s the case. The style of teams that beat BAMA are spread offenses with above average passers. KB is above average runner, serviceable passer. He’s there to manage the game and not lose it. And that’s what he did and he did his job well. Still think he’ll win a ton of games next year b/c he’s great at what he’s great at and our defense will be good again.

I’ll leave you with this question: What was UGA’s game plan against BAMA? They have the #1 RB situation in the country. Did you feel like they were set on pounding the ball down BAMa’s throat? Or did they show a pass first approach that set up the run as a supplement? They have THE BEST RUNNING game in the country and they didn’t even try to be run first. Kirby knows BAMA and the best avenue to beat them. He elected to put it on the shoulders of Fromm did he not? And it worked until BAMa found an offense and that spark carried over to the defense in all phases. That’s my point. You gotta do both and do both well with the onus on the spread em out passing game. But you gotta have the right personnel at QB to do that. Our coordinators called a pretty balls to the wall gameplan last year with a passing QB. Did they forget how to do that or did personnel dictate the game plan?


Agrred


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 12:24 PM
 

Against BAMA , you can’t beat them with just a running game.

STIDMAN IS NOT ALLWORLD. He was 21-28 for 237 vs bama and won. They had a running game going. I DONT think The threat of the deep ball was the fear. The threat of carryon johnson was.

I will also add , to be bama, you can't have cRappy field position all day, you gotta convert on 3rd downs, you definetly can't lose the TO battle.

THE QB isn't responsible for all that.


Watson had to mass gawdy numbers because he had too. The d certainly wasnt doing him any favors. On 1-1-18 I don't even know how Watson would have done against bama that day. You put HJ in that game and he might get decapitated.


Baker mayfield can turn footballs into wine, he never won anything. Well big 12 titles , but big woop.

2021 white level member

i agree we had no other threat at QB


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 3:31 PM
 

Any of the others we probably do worse than KB. So in that game we were what we were. Field position solidified we weren't going to do anything. But we had bad position early last year too. It was a bad game all round. No one made "the play" that got us rolling on offense.


Re: I'm glad you brought up GT..

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 11:59 AM
 

When KB leads us to the Natty next year they might stop it but still doubtful.


Re: I'm glad you brought up GT..


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 4:30 PM
 

You said he was going to do that this year. Well what happened?


he's not going to take a chance on 3rd and long, he's gonna

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 12:07 PM
 

pull it down and barely make the LOS....I've seen it dozens of times...Why do you think Dabo lit him up in the Sugar? It didn't have anything to do with the OL buddy...that is a FACT


Re: he's not going to take a chance on 3rd and long, he's gonna


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 4:15 PM
 

Is that why we were 11th in the nation in 3rd down conversion percentage??


Re: he's not going to take a chance on 3rd and long, he's gonna


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 4:18 PM
 

Nah we were not the best at 3rd and long you are right. Not all on KB tho but a lot of it is.


The fact that I've seen him play***


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 12:04 PM
 




Re: Based off what facts?***

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 12:20 PM
 

You know it is a shame you can’t see what was plainly obvious. You ask for facts ok here are some.

How about the fact that some odd 75% of his passes thrown were in the 7 yard or less range. Yes that is what was called but why? Because the coaches knew he was inconsistent as heck beyond that. How about the fact our entire offensive scheme was changed to a run first O again you have to ask why? Because the coaches knew KB wouldn’t succeed with the scheme like it was for Boyd and Watson because he simply doesn’t have the passing ability. How about the fact he went for 5 straight games only completing only 2 passes of 15 yards or more and was something like 2 / 26 over 15 yards during those 5 games. How about the fact that most of the long ball incompletions were walk in TDs if they hadn’t been so underthrown that the DB had time to catch up and break up the pass. How about the fact that even on the few long balls he did connect on nearly all we’re underthrown where what should have been a walk in TD instead resulted in the DB making the tackle time the ball was caught. All you have to do to see all this is watch the games. Perfect example off the top of my head is the Coot game. Higgins had his man beat on the left sideline by at least 5 yards or more, had to stop and wait on the ball, was tackled immediately. It was an easy walk-in TD. There are only 1 or 2 all year you can find where it wasn’t underthrown.

I’m not saying any of this to bash on KB, he simply doesn’t have the skill set to be the passing QB we need to beat a Bama type team. We are simply two one dimensional with him at QB and he can’t keep an elite D from stacking the box and daring him to beat them with his arm. Same thing happened to Bama with Hurts the other night. Was that our only problem the other night, nope. I put it on the O coaches and Dabo because outside of the D, the team wasn’t ready to play much like at the Cuse game. In regards to the O line, could thay have blocked better sure they could have but as other have said, much of that was a result of Bama playing 8-9 within a few yards of the LOS and daring KB to beat them with his arm. What so many want to completely ignore is this is 4/5 of the exact same starting OL we had last year when we won except they had another years experience and another year in the S&C program so they should have been better than last year or at least equal to last year. So you simply can’t ignore what the real difference was because we didn’t run on them last year either even with an elite QB who made them respect the pass where they couldn’t put 8-9 near the LOS. We only gained 91 yards rushing last year in the win, so I really don’t know what made us think we would run on them this year.

So here is your last set of facts. No run first team has just lined up and beaten Bama In the last 8-9 years. It has taken an elite passing game to do it. KB will not provide that elite passing game. We can beat every one in the ACC playing the exact same as this year because they can’t stop our run and make us one dimensional. You can also bet you will see every team try to force KB to beat them with his arm next year if he is the starter. When we make the CFP there will be a Bama or a UGA or some other team with enough talent to stack the box and force our QB to back them off with his arm, if he can’t we will have a similar result to this year.

I want more than that, I want to stand a real chance to win every time we make it. For that to be the case, our coaches have to build a team that can take what the D is giving. If what they are giving is the pass because they are selling out to stop the run then I expect our coaches to have a QB ready that can do that particularly when we had the #2 ranked QB in the nation sitting on the bench most of the year instead of investing the time to get him ready.


Re: Based off what facts?***


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 3:51 PM
 

This man gets is

2021 student level member

The Bama offensive line was much better in the second half

[2]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 9:22 AM
 

of the Championship game.

What changed?

nullbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Re: The Bama offensive line was much better in the second half


Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 12:21 PM
 

^^^^^^^ gets it.

Only difference was a QB that made UGA back off the LOS and respect the pass.


Re: QB was NOT our Problem

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 10:58 AM
 

KB never had a chance to keep the d honest because bama d was 3 yds deep in the backfield 1 sec after the snap. We didn’t block well. Etn whiffed on blocks too.

What I don’t understand is why we didn’t make any changes like rolling out or throwing screens.


Because he can't cleanly execute the screen consistently...

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 12:10 PM
 

The passes are generally lat, slow and high...Bama would have eaten them up


"Adequate" generally doesn't ever win a championship.

[1]
Posted: Jan 11, 2018, 11:00 AM
 

Another name for adequate is "Jalen Hurts."


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