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Topic: I'm still not big on executive orders
Replies: 58   Last Post: Jan 21, 2021, 2:15 PM by: Catahoula®
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Replies: 58  

I'm still not big on executive orders

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:06 AM
    Reply

Nor am I a fan of a president rushing into his office as soon as inauguration is over to start signing a bunch. I've felt that way for a while, and I still hope Congress will work to curb the power of EOs for the future.

But here were a few that had to be done to undo some Trumpism, and it's great/hilarious to see some of his work come crashing down:

-An immediate halt on the border wall. I can't wait to watch it torn down piece by piece simply because it's the symbol of Trumpism.

-Tightening ICE's leash.

-Ending the Muslim travel ban.

-Upholding DACA.

-Strengthened federal protection for LGBT rights in federal workplaces. This one really showed what a fraud Trump was as he was extremely pro LGBT rights before he became president. He's a con man.

-The end of the absurd 1776 Commission. Good and hard.


I'm not sure the Ethics Pledge one he enacted for the executive branch will have any teeth, but it's a nice idea. We'll see if they follow it.

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HAD to be done?

[2]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:13 AM
    Reply

The border wall HAD to be stopped? What negative effect on the American people does having a border wall cause? Spare me the, "tax dollars" line though.

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Please forgive me, @IneligibleUser


Besides it's a piece of crap that's already falling apart?***

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:22 AM
    Reply



2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg2011_pickem_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-soccerkrzy.jpg link

Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


This successfully didn't answer the question


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:26 AM
    Reply

Those were private wall sections tho. Quick google search can clear that up for you.

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Please forgive me, @IneligibleUser


Hold up...


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:27 AM
    Reply

Did a "conservative" Trumpie just admit that the government does a better job constructing things than the private sector?

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Government typically has more stringent standards


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:30 AM
    Reply

to mitigate risk. I'm an engineer. Just because they have higher standards, doesn't mean they do a better job. It typically takes significantly longer, and its more expensive, to complete a government run project.

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsonrulez08.jpg link

Please forgive me, @IneligibleUser


My fees on public projects are about twice what they are on

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:52 AM
    Reply

private projects, and I still regret every public project that I take. Twice isn't enough.

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This is a silly "gotcha" and I am sure you know that.


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 11:35 AM
    Reply

Government can do things great. Private enterprise can do things terribly. But no matter how government does it...good...bad...10x what you would have paid in the private sector for the same quality...20x what you would have paid in the private sector for superior quality...we all have to pay for it. If private sector fails, they go away and get replaced by someone better.

link

null


Hey man...

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 2:15 PM
    Reply

Let me poke a little light fun at a bit of ideological "crossing the streams".

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Yep, and its cessation is glorious


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:26 AM
    Reply

It was an absolute ineffective waste of tax money, but more importantly, it's a destruction of the symbol of Trumpism.

This is punching in a touchdown late in the fourth quarter when you're already up by three scores. This is rubbing your nose in your poo.

The wall was cheered, rubbed in everyone's faces, and became the rallying cry of this imbecile movement. It ain't a Berlin Wall or a statue of a dictator, but it's destruction will have a little flavor of that same sweetness.

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So it didn't HAVE to be done


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:31 AM
    Reply

It was just symbolic. There's a difference. I know you know this.

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Please forgive me, @IneligibleUser


Oh, no, that symbolism had to happen


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:50 AM
    Reply

For the good of America and going forward, the disease of Trumpism has to be stamped out.

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It allows less illegal immigrants into the country

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:32 AM
    Reply

THEY are important to our economic scheme. They allow your grass to be cut cheaper, your house to be built cheaper, and many other things to be....DEBT to be cheaper. STOP illegals and you can tack on several percentage points to inflation. Heck, just 3 points triples what we pay to service our debt, which we still can't even afford to service without adding more debt.

And don't expect the minimum wage to go to $15 either. Same result. Few more ticks on inflation. Forget our trade balancing, that's many more ticks. Nope, nope, nope. There is bipartisan support for illegal immigration (why no wall in Trump's first 2 years with a GOP Congress)? It wasn't a topic until after the dems took the House in the midterms. THEN it became a topic because pubs knew funding wouldn't pass. Why no minimum wage increase in Obama's first 2 years with a dem congress? Nope, that wasn't an issue until after the midterms with Obama because dems knew once the pubs took over it too would be a non-issue.

Nope. There is bipartisan support for continued illegal immigration, either institutionalized, or a wink and a nod. Same for the minimum wage. Bipartisan opposition for increasing it. Pubs obviously, but dems don't want to touch that either. It will fizzle in Congress, I promise.

It is flat out economic suicide to stop illegal immigration, importing goods cheaper produced with cheaper foreign labor, and increasing the minimum wage inflating the costs of domestic labor. To the extent any of those three happen, we're screwed. It's all smoke and mirrors.

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You're assuming that resultant GDP will never go up

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:34 AM
    Reply

enough in such a scenario to cover increased debt servicing costs. That's not a given.

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What do you think explains our increase in GDP?


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:35 AM
    Reply

Our constant increase in it? It's unnatural really. Take a look at GDP's of other countries, almost ANY other country. They have peaks, dips, NONE have a 70-year steady and consistent upturn.

When was the last time (pre covid) that our GDP actually dipped? Only time really. The housing crisis. That was all debt driven. Toxic mortgage debt. If you study up on Enron, and then study up on how the mortgage crisis was "fixed", you'd be shocked.

Now, take a look at our debt chart. I would argue our debt spending has steadily played, over the decades, a larger and larger role in the increase of our GDP than we even realize. It explains why Wall Street freaks at the fed even thinking about raising rates. We have market caps on companies that can not be explained on earnings. It would take Tesla 1,000 years to realize their market cap. We literally run on debt. The more of it we run on a a percentage of GDP, the more danger inflation becomes. You can chart this all out to the 1980's really. Debt slowly increases. Minimum wage stagnates. "Free" trade expands, debt increases, illegal immigration increases, interest rates than can be gradually lowered...... it all works together, until it doesn't. And Congress has benefited from this as well. LOTS of votes purchased, and lots of reelections have resulted from increased spending. LOTS of power has been created with lots of revenue. It's a really great scheme, as long as you can manage it.

So no, our GDP runs (to some large percentage now) on debt. So yeah, I see 5% inflation decimating our GDP. I see 5% inflation breaking our government. I see 5% inflation causing an economic collapse. That inflation number has creeped downward steadily for many years. In the 20th century there were no less than 7 different times when inflation in the US jumped enough to topple our economy, as it sits today. The last time was in 1982. 1982 inflation, we collapse. And it's interesting, because if you look since 1982, inflation has been relatively steady (managed), and interest rates have gradually fallen ever since then. They've not once jumped. We are sitting at darn near zero right now. Out of ammo.

Doesn't mean we have an economic collapse though. Japan went through this same progression at one time as well. They never collapsed. But they have steadily declined over many years. Several decades really. Read up on Japan's lost decade. We're in much the same situation right now as Japan in the late 1980's. I see a similar future for the US, if we're lucky. Japan hatched the same scheme in the 1980's that we hatched. The 1980's will be remembered as a pivotal decade in economics in 100 years when history is written.....

This has all been legislated and regulated for decades now. Congress legislates the scheme, and the federal reserve, et. al. regulate it. Ken Lay, chair or Enron, was investigated, charged, and was jailed for doing to Enron's books the exact same thing the federal reserve did in 2009 on a much more massive scale. Lay wrote off losses to shell companies to sweeten up Enron's books, to make it more appealing to investors. He want to jail for doing that, in a company that grew massive on investments. Same for those companies "too big to fail" in 2008. The toxic mortgage debt was written off to shell companies (called Maiden Lane I, II, and even III I think). The elimination of that debt from those companies "too big to fail", allowed investment to return. On the back side, and this still has never been documented, the federal reserve says the Maiden Lane writeoffs (trillions) were repaid. Then poof, problem disappears. Dodd Frank required an audit of the writeoffs to maiden lane, and they were well documented. But the refunding of the writeoffs were not documented. This video is interesting. This guy was a Freshman dem. in Congress at the time. Needless to say he was a one-term guy. He was reelected one additional time later, served one term, and then has subsequently lost every election at the primary level since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXlxBeAvsB8&feature=emb_title

If you really want the nuts and bolts of how the 2008 financial crisis was "fixed", read this. It's all the stuff that was happening that the lady above had no clue about in her testimony.

https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11696.pdf

And yes, I am assuming the GDP would drop, yet again, if/when debt can't be serviced, for whatever reason.

Oh, and of course our tax codes play into this. Why all the emphasis on income tax rates, and not capital gains? Why are capital gains taxed at a lower rate than earned income? Why not just do like California and enact a wealth tax, and tax stock portfolios based on market value just like real estate portfolios? The explanation of "wealth inequality" lies in this scheme and understanding it. It is a natural byproduct of it really. The trick is understanding wealth exists on paper, but when it's exchanged for labor, it's a whole other ballgame. Ahh, and then there's derivatives. That's when it gets real interesting. Tripling down on debt "assets" to build "wealth".

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As the son of a legal immigrant

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 AM
    Reply

Your narrative didn't even make me consider a change of thought.

Funny how for four years, when someone made a decision "because of the economy" it was bad... but now that Sleepy Joe is in, decisions for the economy are good.

For the record, I cut my grass. Id happily pay a bit more for labor if I know it is an American citizen getting that job.

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Please forgive me, @IneligibleUser


Biden didn't open the borders


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:00 AM
    Reply

He stopped the building of the wall, which would do absolutely nothing in stopping illegal immigration.

The wall was always symbolic.

All the other immigration practices are in place.

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Nossir, he's absolutely loosening ICE directives


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:06 AM
    Reply

on who and who not to "enforce" the laws with (read: deport). We are back to the days of the illegality of being in the country without permission only being a wink and a nod crime.

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Please show me


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:10 AM
    Reply

The exact text from the EO that says that.

I pulled this from CBS:

Change Trump's arrest priorities for Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). This executive order will repeal the changes Mr. Trump made in the first week of his presidency in 2017 to make interior immigration enforcement much stricter. Few specifics were listed in the outline of the executive order, but the incoming Biden White House team stated the Department of Homeland Security, in partnership with other agencies, will "set civil immigration enforcement policies that best protect the American people and are in line with our values and priorities."



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It's easy....you go to Trump's EO that this refers to,


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:24 AM
    Reply

and find the "arrest priorities".

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-border-security-immigration-enforcement-improvements/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:umeiw93N5uEJ:https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-border-security-immigration-enforcement-improvements/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


As far as I can tell, the priorities outlined in said EO were to arrest anyone who violated Federal Immigration law (read: entered the country illegally or worse). The only way to "change" these are to weaken them, and presumably it would go back to the priorities which Biden helped preside over with Obama.

(b) detain individuals apprehended on suspicion of violating Federal or State law, including Federal immigration law, pending further proceedings regarding those violations;

(c) expedite determinations of apprehended individuals’ claims of eligibility to remain in the United States;

(d) remove promptly those individuals whose legal claims to remain in the United States have been lawfully rejected, after any appropriate civil or criminal sanctions have been imposed;

(e) cooperate fully with States and local law enforcement in enacting Federal-State partnerships to enforce Federal immigration priorities, as well as State monitoring and detention programs that are consistent with Federal law and do not undermine Federal immigration priorities.

and I think the big one that will certainly change:

Sec. 6. Detention for Illegal Entry. The Secretary shall immediately take all appropriate actions to ensure the detention of aliens apprehended for violations of immigration law pending the outcome of their removal proceedings or their removal from the country to the extent permitted by law. The Secretary shall issue new policy guidance to all Department of Homeland Security personnel regarding the appropriate and consistent use of lawful detention authority under the INA, including the termination of the practice commonly known as “catch and release,” whereby aliens are routinely released in the United States shortly after their apprehension for violations of immigration law.


I think we both know this was worded so loosely because they assumed most wouldn't go back and actually read the sections of Trump's EO that pertained to arrests, and this is a lot more PR-friendly than "we're going to go back to catch and release".

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Well, there you go:


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:30 AM
    Reply

(b) detain individuals apprehended on suspicion of violating Federal or State law, including Federal immigration law, pending further proceedings regarding those violations;

So there you have it.


Sec. 6. Detention for Illegal Entry. The Secretary shall immediately take all appropriate actions to ensure the detention of aliens apprehended for violations of immigration law pending the outcome of their removal proceedings or their removal from the country to the extent permitted by law. The Secretary shall issue new policy guidance to all Department of Homeland Security personnel regarding the appropriate and consistent use of lawful detention authority under the INA, including the termination of the practice commonly known as “catch and release,” whereby aliens are routinely released in the United States shortly after their apprehension for violations of immigration law.

I'm not sure you looked closely enough at this.

I also hope "appropriate and consistent use of lawful detention" means no more kids in cages.

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How do you look at a point I just made, re-make it


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:32 AM
    Reply

and say "You did't look closely enough"?

The parts you highlighted are EXACTLY what I was pointing out was likely to be weakened. If I was confusing, those were from Trump's EO, not Bidens.

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Re: How do you look at a point I just made, re-make it


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:40 AM
    Reply

Sorry, I thought you were posting Biden's EO.

Thus far, Biden's EO is vague (just looked it up), so we don't know what changes will come to enforcement. It will be a wait and I see, I guess. Either way, ICE's leash needs tightening.

Message was edited by: Catahoula®


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Two final points


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:47 AM
    Reply

1) he will, in his own words, change arrest priorities—you can’t strengthen Trump’s arrest priorities because they included EVERYONE here illegally. The only logical way to go is weaker. We will indeed have to see how weak.

2) on one hand a vague EO like this feels useless. On the other hand, I wish they were all this toothless and merely indicated directionality for congress to follow up further on. Torn on this one.

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Re: Two final points

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:49 AM
    Reply

I think we agree here:

1. Yeah, I don't see how he doesn't. I want enforcement of the law, but I also want humanity as well. For me, the biggest thing is stopping the ####### kids in cages. Yeah, I know, Trump didn't start it. But when you catch someone pissing on your front door, you don't want him explaining to you how the neighbor who walked down the street before him did it, too.

2. Yep.

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I hope our current Prez and Congress is like us....

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:56 AM
    Reply

Lots of interesting and (mostly) cordial debate, not much actual work getting done.

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Ah, the good ole days.***


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:09 AM
    Reply



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This debate will settle itself with actions. I am not sure


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 11:47 AM
    Reply

how anyone can argue anything other than, effectively, we will have an illegal immigration tidal wave again...all at the invitation of the current administration. Maybe Tiggity is right and they're going all "We have to do this lest the whole system crumbles, but we can't admit it." I tend to think he's overstating the issue but what do I know.

Anyway, per EO, Biden has stopped deportations for 100 days and stopped the "Stay in Mexico" rule. He is easing the ICE mandate.

Look at the comments in this article:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-55699540


"Migrants and asylum seekers should absolutely not believe those in the region selling the idea that the border will suddenly be fully open to process everyone on day one. It will not."

That's from Susan Rice. It implies clearly not that we will continue to control the border...simply that it takes more than a day to unwrap Trump's silly border control obsession. You know...give them a couple weeks.

If you think the wall was a symbol, then clearly tearing it down is also a symbol.

But hey...if you see the mandate differently so be it. I guess we'll see what happens.

link

null


For lower-paying and/or unskilled labor jobs


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 10:36 AM
    Reply

That can't be leveraged with cheaper imported labor. My comment was an economic one, not racial or whatever. Why no path to citizenship when Obama had a dem congress? I'd wager there won't be one now either. Employers of unskilled illegal laborers have wage AND overhead benefits when someone is here and working illegally. And this is truly a win-win-win situation for both the illegal worker, and the employer, and the lenders. The illegal worker gets to leverage the higher dollar value by sending money home to support his/her family. The employer gets to leverage a lower wage, less overhead, and can underbid a competitor using illegal labor versus someone else.

And you (the borrower) benefit because your house is built cheaper. You get a bigger house. And with lower rates, you can get an even bigger house with a larger loan. And the lender benefits because your loan becomes a bigger asset they can use to then sell to the highest bidder as an asset.

That's just in housing, but the principles apply more broadly.

If you come to the US with the skills, education, and desire to be an actuary, CPA, nuclear engineer, physicist, college professor, whatever, AND WANT TO BECOME A CITIZEN, you have a welcome mat to citizenship rolled out for you. If you're literally starving, in a violent country, and have no prospects to buy medicine for your family, and no education or skills, there is no pathway to citizenship for you, but by all means, if you can get here your labor will be compensated, and you can then send that labor home in inflated dollars to leverage buying more medicine and housing and food for your family than you could ever afford expending the same labor in your home country.

In an hour I will speak with a refugee from Venezuela. I'm very, very, very familiar with this. I know the employers, I know the workers, and I know the families of illegal workers. I see the big picture, and know the individual stories. Illegal immigration isn't a political issue, it's an economic one. Trump knows that. Obama knows that. Congress knows that. That's why in 30-40 years, no matter the politician, no matter the party or who has control, nothing has effectively been done about it. Nothing can be done about it.

And most illegal immigrants have no desire to become American citizens. Their desire is to maximize the money they can send to support their families back home, with plans almost universally, to return home some day to retire better off than they could otherwise have done. If they become citizens, they pay taxes, and that decreases the amount of money they can send home or save. I've met hundreds of illegal immigrants over 2 decades now, and I'm not sure I've found a single one who said they came to the US to become a citizen, and live here forever. I've also found almost none who are not sending money home to support their families (parents, siblings, whatever). You can create a path to citizenship, and most would not take it. I have seen a dozen illegal workers sleeping and living in a single hotel room, eating ramen noodles, carpooling to work, and living off $5 a day literally, and sending every single additional penny ($600-800 a week) home to support their families. Most Americans do not understand the situation they left. Most were happy in their countries, but the poverty drove them to the US. We then provide them an opportunity they would otherwise not have, and literally save the lives of their family members back home. We see them as victims where they see themselves as having an incredible opportunity. There's a real disconnect there.

But at the end of the day they will not take a path to citizenship. It's difficult and expensive for those who do take the legal path now, and those are the people who want to become American citizens. But most illegal workers have no desire for citizenship or planting roots here. A lot of times over decades that's what they do, but the ultimate goal is almost always to support their families back home, and someday save up enough extra to go back home and retire on some land with their families. I've heard this dream and situation literally hundreds of times.

Our housekeeper is here illegally. She makes $35 an hour, more than we would probably pay a service, who would also use illegal labor. She supports her mother, and her father who is in bad health in Mexico. She has a husband who left her, and 3 children. Her children are in school. She has a bank account, and they have healthcare. And she also hopes one day to return home, with educated grown children who can leverage their education to be more successful in Mexico, and to retire after buying more land for her family. And we do all we can to help her to that end. And she helps us. You could give her a path to citizenship and she wouldn't take it. And I totally understand why.

And when you see how illegal immigrants are treated by Trump or by Biden, neither really understands them and each is using them as political pawns. The reality, they know and we don't. They are economic pawns, essential pieces of our economic puzzle, and they're here to earn money and send it home. They benefit, and we benefit. And that's why nothing will be done to make them citizens, and why they won't necessarily be clamoring to become citizens if a pathway is created.

And I pay to have my grass cut. And I pay an American to do that, and pay him very well. And he then hires/subs an illegal worker (his name is Alfonso btw), to cut the grass cheaper and the American guy I hired keeps the profits. I give Alphonso some money every Christmas. American guy I ostensibly hired, I literally never see and haven't spoken to him since I hired him.

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Re: HAD to be done?

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:50 AM
    Reply

rulz,

I, as an American, don't want to build a wall around my country - a country that was built by immigrants from all over the world.

Plus I think it is a scaredlittlepussy thing to do.

PS: I am all for some reasonable, humane restrictions (humanely enforced) on immigration

link

I want a wall and strong immigration policy


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:40 AM
    Reply

so do million of Americans. Once the faucet is turned back on my Biden, well, consequences will happen. Just like people do not want to hear about CAFE standards, climate accords and LGBT rights slammed down their throats every day. They want to hear about regulations being loosened, not tightened, they want their business to come back from COVID, not how we can prop up Wall Street.

4 years is short, 2 is even shorter for the House, you start ram rodding things down peoples throat and then the Economy starts to faulter, even in the slightest, it will swing back just as quickly as it swung your way in November.

2021 orange level member link


Re: HAD to be done?


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:56 AM
    Reply

rulez...I am with you on the border. At least we agree upon something. I am not sure if the wall works, but I like his overall stance on the border. I just always gave him a hard time because he said Mex would pay for it and his cult believed it. I liked his tough stance on the border.

2021 white level member link

That's called a conviction of convenience,

[4]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:32 AM
    Reply

and it "had to be done" because you believe in the underlying causes. They're still unilateral, executive-branch-strengthening-at-the-expense-of-legislative-strength maneuvers and they're still generally wrong.

DACA was unconstitutional when Obama declared it....it was Congress's move to make all day long.

I'm ok with the ICE move, even if I don't like it, because it's under executive control.

"Muslim" (c'mon) travel ban---fair enough.

Border wall---wasn't Trump's to enact, wasn't Biden's to end. Congress.

LGBT - Congress

1776--I don't consider it the scourge of the Earth like some, but it was a pet project--fair enough.

Ethics pledge is window dressing. He'll likely rescind it before leaving office just like Trump and Clinton did.

And Keystone pipeline? Congress---it affects states. Eviction moratorium? Congress....they represent the landlords who are losing the rent...maybe it's a fair move, but not Biden's to unilaterally declare.

I'm curious to see what the 10 are that are rumored to be coming out today. I am hearing talk ramp up, and not from right wing alarmists, that there's some real thought being given towards pushing gun manufacturer liability for crimes committed with firearms. Not saying we'll see it today, but it worries me if it's even being considered.

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Gun manufacture liability makes complete sense

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:44 AM
    Reply

as long as alcohol companies and auto manufacturers can be sued for DUI deaths

2021 purple level member link

Re: Gun manufacture liability makes complete sense

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:01 AM
    Reply

Yeah, I still don't like blaming things for people's actions. Guns especially.

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and blaming McDonalds for fat people. Tax large sodas!***

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:43 AM
    Reply



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Re: That's called a conviction of convenience,


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:57 AM
    Reply

O,

It seems to me that an EO to undo another EO would be a good thing.

If Congress will get out of their gridlock mindset, then they can start to pass legislation to address these issues. There is nothing to say that they cannot pass a law that would override an EO. If they think the President is out of line, let them draw the line more clearly with legislation.

link

Re: That's called a conviction of convenience,


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:58 AM
    Reply

Which goes back to my thoughts on EOs. It should be mostly Congress. What SHOULD happen is Biden overturn the Trump EO overreaches and then Congress steps in. But I doubt that will happen.

To your points:

1. One way or another, the symbol of the wall had to be crushed. I think the Biden admin knows that as well. That was the most symbolic of Trumpism during his admin.

2. On DACA, agreed, but the SCOTUS upheld it, so there's that.

3. It was a Muslim ban.

4. LGBT - Yes, but Trump's attack on their rights had to be undone.

5. It was a dumb pet project, and that's why it had to be swiped. The executive branch shouldn't be looking at education curriculum and declaring it too conservative or liberal for students because they don't like the information.

6. I'm on the fence about the Keystone. Jobs vs. Environmental/Parks impact

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Re: That's called a conviction of convenience,


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:15 AM
    Reply

1. One way or another, the symbol of the wall had to be crushed. I think the Biden admin knows that as well. That was the most symbolic of Trumpism during his admin.

I have heard from the left for weeks that it was a flop effort and a mere 450 miles of wall and if nothing else, symbolizes Trump's failure to deliver on promises. Now it's a beacon of his Presidency that must be destroyed? 99.999% of the country will never see it. It's not a gilded Trump statue atop the Washington Monument, and when and where it's working, it's actually serving a common sense purpose. It's a petty effort to knock it down just because.

2. On DACA, agreed, but the SCOTUS upheld it, so there's that.

Interestingly (I'd call it maddeningly) the SCOTUS did not uphold DACA. They ruled against the Trump admin's efforts to end DACA. I believe they punted on the actual challenges to the legality of DACA. Which goes back to Congress could and should have done something about it when the Pubs had Exec and Legislative, but had no inclination to.

3. It was a Muslim ban.

It was a ban on countries who didn't perform effective security screening. Muslim was a secondary characteristic. Not all countries were Muslim, nor were all Muslim countries included, as they would have been if it were a Muslim ban. That's just so much PR.

4. LGBT - Yes, but Trump's attack on their rights had to be undone.

If the abuses were that glaring, a Democrat-held Congress should have easily passed similar, instead of making it an EO that can just as easily be undone down the road. If you feel something is fundamental, it shouldn't swing by the whims of a President.

5. It was a dumb pet project, and that's why it had to be swiped. The executive branch shouldn't be looking at education curriculum and declaring it too conservative or liberal for students because they don't like the information.

I think you just agreed with me.

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Re: That's called a conviction of convenience,


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:21 AM
    Reply

1. You're not hearing from "the left" on this. You're hearing from me. My opinion on it has always been that it shouldn't happen, and that it's destruction once Trump left would be beautiful. Petty AF, yes. Necessary. Because building it was petty to begin with.

2. Okay, true. I do think it should be Congress's call. But until they tackle it, the right move is to take the humane route, not the "let's do something cruel and force their hand" route.

3. We'll have to disagree. I still think Trump was making an anti-Muslim point.

4. Agreed. So undo what Trump did and let Congress fix it. Unless we're talking jobs that would fall under the executive wheelhouse.

5. Yep, I did.

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So if it's all the "undoings" that are ok,


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:29 AM
    Reply

where does it stop? Because many of Trump's EO's were to "undo" what Obama did, and the same with Obama as it concerned Bush, etc, etc, etc.

Do we just go back to the last iteration of the law actually made by Congress and baseline it? If not, we're just playing ideological pattycake with all this "undo" crap.

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Hard to say


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:31 AM
    Reply

It would be nice for Congress to step in an say "enough".

But I'm not going to be upset when Trump's most ridiculous and harmful ones are wiped out.

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Ok, so we are back to


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:37 AM
    Reply

“I dislike the concept of outside-of-normal-exec-branch-purview EO’s unless I really really agree with them”. Conviction of convenience. It’s not an insult to you, it just highlights why this practice is unlikely to ever end.

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Nope, not what I said.


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:41 AM
    Reply

I said I favor overturning very harmful ones and ceding the power back to Congress. It can't be, "Well, let's now stop them after the damage is done!" Undo the damage first. I believe all the ones I highlighted in my OP were a cessation of previous EOs.

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Ok, and just to clarify the obvious,


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:53 AM
    Reply

At any given time on most issues, there’s a large portion of the country that will look for their guy to EO the “harmful” EO that your guy enacted to overturn the EO that you thought was harmful. Round and round and it only stops when Congress grows a pair.

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Regarding the border wall

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:38 AM
    Reply

The wall is barely bigger than it was 4 years ago; most of the "building" was updating the existing fencing--not even a "wall." The actual executive order looks really sensible though:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/proclamation-termination-of-emergency-with-respect-to-southern-border-of-united-states-and-redirection-of-funds-diverted-to-border-wall-construction/

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If you see everything as liberal and conservative teams, then You Are What's Wrong With America #YAWWWA


biden said never deport anyone unless a felony

[2]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:39 AM
    Reply

border is open all you got to do is get in

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yup, thus the bigass Guatemalan and Honduran caravans

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:41 AM
    Reply

already heading up.

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Biden already angering our allies

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 AM
    Reply

On day one! Worst president in history. How in the world are you able to #### off the unpissoffable on day one?


https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1352068747385851910

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Please forgive me, @IneligibleUser


LOL***


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:52 AM
    Reply



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If you see everything as liberal and conservative teams, then You Are What's Wrong With America #YAWWWA


17 on the first day is not bad***


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:45 AM
    Reply



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Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


Re: 17 on the first day is not bad***

[1]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:59 AM
    Reply

How many of the 17 did anything other than undo Trump's EOs ??

link

IDK, I just know the total number***


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:03 AM
    Reply



2021 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-willmo.jpg link




Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


I hope he keeps the EO for super flushing toilets and torential shower heads

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 8:57 AM
    Reply

We all hate having to flush a dozen times.

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Re: I hope he keeps the EO for super flushing toilets and torential shower heads


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:21 AM
    Reply

I suspect we are going to need fossil fuels for at least several more decades. Why would we blow off a project that will bring oil from our always friendly neighbor Canada? My son who voted for Biden and Hillary provided some of the legal representation to the pipeline company in their battles with the Standing Rock Indian Reservation. The pipeline interestingly would NOT even have run on the Standing Rock Reservation. There is a lot of misinformation about Keystone. This was nothing more than a sop to the Green crowd who would probably prefer we all die off or at a minimum live in caves heated and lighted by low smoke emitting dead twigs.

If Biden allows the lawyers to have open season on gun manufacturers, ammo manufacturers then this will certainly increase massive gun and ammo sales as is already going on. This is nothing more than a foolish backdoor attempt at gun control. It will fail. There are too many guns and ammo already in use with a very long life expectancy for such a move to do anything but enrich the lawyers and drive up the cost of these items.

I agree with a previous poster that if we're gonna go down this path, then it only makes sense to go after alcohol and autos which are involved in thousands upon thousands of deaths and injuries of innocent people each year. Hey, it's not too late for me even at my age to go law school. Show me the money!!

2021 orange level member link

I agree, those two things are legacy changers.


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:58 AM
    Reply

Could be more universally beloved than W extending daylight savings time.

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg link


Just a buy in of political chips to play poker with Congress***


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 9:21 AM
    Reply



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Re: I'm still not big on executive orders


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 11:54 AM
    Reply

Remember that Odumbo set the presidential record for having EOs overturned by the SCOTUS. No surprise there. Embarrassing incompetence, with a silver tongue that was able to fool 80 million Americans!

military_donation.jpg link

G'day, mate.***


Posted: Jan 21, 2021, 2:13 PM
    Reply



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Replies: 58  

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