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Topic: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a
Replies: 34   Last Post: Nov 13, 2020, 12:14 PM by: Woburn Tiger
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per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a

emoji_events [14]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 6:40 AM
 

change. Posted on FGF so take it FWIW, but this guy uses specific numbers and doesn't sound like a moron. It's obviously in response to the never-ending threads about buying out Muschamp and throwing whatever amount of money is necessary to land a top name coach...

Here are the financials, we have a HUGE problem.

USC (the University) lost $165 million this year. The athletic department revenue is $70 million, $15 million comes from the Gamecock Club. Athletic department expenses are $103 million which means the athletic department will lose over $32 million this year. Athletic department salaries are $54 million of which $4.4 million per year goes to Muschamp, who has a buyout of $13.2 million. Athletic facilities improvement debt is $160 million, and the debt service on that is $12.5 million per year. The most recent facilities expansion may not even be in that number. The state of SC cannot bail us out due to the nuclear plant debacle. There is over $3k of per capita state debt versus about half of that for NC or Georgia.

Muschamp is creating 3 big issues : 1) The football performance is hurting the revenue side of things; 2) His buyout would be a big hit on the expense side; and 3) USC needs to do an across-the-board salary cut and probably lay off some staff, but Muschamp's salary would be bad optics in the middle of that. Ray would probably like to point to the success of the Lady Gamecocks, but they lose money. Meanwhile the Clemson athletic department is spending about $132 million a year, and even with Dabo's salary appears to break even. I may be wrong, anyone with numbers on Clemson please post them.

So the bottom line is, Caslen has to make some tough decisions for the entire university system because of money. Tanner has made a mess financially. We can't afford to keep Muschamp because of the revenue, but we cannot afford to get rid of him either because of the buyout. So Caslen probably does a pay cut across-the-board and Muschamp participates. Then when the buyout has decreased some more, he gets rid of Muschamp. Maybe an assistant gets canned to create some hope. The question is, does Tanner get kicked upstairs soon in order to give hope to the fanbase and try to improve the revenue side of things. So maybe all this conversation about a new football coach should be about a new AD. Tanner is probably hiding in a bunker because there are two things he does not want to talk about-Muschamp and money. I expect any statement he gives to be double-speak since he will be stalling for time under orders from Caslen.

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Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 7:10 AM
 

Actually sounds plausible.

As if hiring Muschamp wasn’t stepping in it enough. When they thought it couldn’t get worse.... ‘Knock Knock! Who’s There? COVID!’

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Probably the most realistic of FGF posts in quite some time

emoji_events [10]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 7:14 AM
 

Tanner has really become an albatross around their collective chicken necks. Ignoring the money issues, if USuC fires Muschamp with Tanner leading the search they are more than likely headed for another coaching debacle. I tend to think even those chicken brains in Columbia understand this now...

IMO Caslen and the BOT can't just fire Muschamp in knee jerk reaction to the fans displeasure. The finances, buyouts, and having to get Tanner out of the AD position prior to conducting a new coaching search will require planning and time. If USuC has already made the decision to part ways with Muschamp, it will probably be done over the next two fiscal years.

The harbinger of Muschamp's eventual demise will be when Tanner gets fired or moved out his position. Once that has been achieved with a new AD in place there will be buzzards flying over Muschamp's office.

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Hilariously no...they absolutely don't !!!

[2]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 8:44 AM
 

uof6c fans have always maintained an extraordinary lack of self-awareness. They are under the inaccurate and misguided belief that the football HC job at CootU is among the best in college football. They think they can just throw a bunch of money around (money they DO NOT have) and get pretty much any coch they want which is absolutely not the case. There is very good reason why they ended-up with CussChamp last time. It was because every other coach Tanner wanted who was worth a flip either turned them down or withdrew from consideration, and that's because uof6c is a perennial bottom feeder and a coaching graveyard. The vast majority of uof6c fans are either too ignorant and deluded, or have their heads stuck too far up their own a$$es to see it or admit it.

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Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 8:05 AM
 

The insider doesn’t mention whether Tanner has a buyout or what he is currently being paid. Those items would be interesting to know.


Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 8:23 AM
 

1 Million a year and got an extension that keeps him to 2024 last year.

https://www.live5news.com/2019/05/01/south-carolina-ad-tanner-receives-year-contract-extension/

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Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 10:08 PM
 

Interesting. The AD makes $1 mil, The guy who works for him makes $4 mil. I mean, I know it is that way at all schools likely, but I never really thought about it before. How many other jobs do you mak a LOT more than your boss?

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IMHO, pushing Tanner up to AD has set their football program

[4]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 8:53 AM
 

back maybe 20 years, and they are now in year 8, I think. A while back I googled the bios of several AD's at big-time programs. Tanner stuck out like a sore thumb; literally hanging up a pair of cleats to slide into a suit and try to manage a multi-million dollar enterprise. He had zero experience... not at all qualified to be a "modern day AD".

College athletics can be a cutthroat business. The agents that represent coaches nowadays are ruthless, crafty, and experienced negotiators. Tannner was like a big fat tuna swimming in a tank full of sharks. That's why he was unprepared to pull the trigger on a hire when Spurrier bailed midseason. He had a big head start... coaching moves are typically at the end of the year. But he got outmaneuvered and saw his top choices go elsewhere e.g. Smart, Herman, whoever... and ended up with Muschamp. And then later he got played into a big raise, contract extension & buyout.

I get that he has legend status down there. His ability to coach baseball is not in dispute. But there's a big difference between deciding which inning to pull the starter and, again... managing a multi-million dollar enterprise. You need to work your way up, be an understudy, learn from the old pros, sit in on negotiations, and all that. I mean, you wouldn't even hire Dabo to be CFO of your corporation. It's a totally different skill set...

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Re: IMHO, pushing Tanner up to AD has set their football program

[1]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 11:19 AM
 

I would say that Dabo might have a better chance than Tanner as an AD.... but as an Asst. AD or Associate AD first based on commercial realestate - as that is just as $ focused. The numbers have to work as well as the results. I think there is a reason why TDP and Dabo got it off. I think Dabo has a better skillset potential but what is his cap. But then again being an average AD or a HOF coach tradeoff is not something I would take.

Tanner was a BAD choice. He likely would be fine at a low-end D1 or D2/3 school... but the P5 is as you said, cutthroat. Selling the Coots to top-tier talent just isn't going to work for most coaches. Thus Muscoot. I don't think Tanner can sell the school to other coaches well.


Re: IMHO, pushing Tanner up to AD has set their football program


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 11:19 AM
 

But Dabo could sell Clemson to other coaches. That is the difference.


Maybe. But check out the AD's at comparable schools. You'll see


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 12:23 PM
 

degrees in Finance, MBA's, etc, and a career climbing the ladder. Maybe you start out as an Associate/Assistant at a smaller school. You move up over the years, maybe decades... gaining experience before you're handed the reins of a Top 20 (financially) Div 1A school. Take a glance at D-Rad's resume: https://clemsontigers.com/staff/dan-radakovich/


edit: the pertinent part... EXPERIENCE... is near the bottom.

Message was edited by: dark side of the moo®


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Re: Maybe. But check out the AD's at comparable schools. You'll see


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 12:48 PM
 

Keep in mind Dab's MBA. Also Ray Tanner has a Masters in Public Administration - which is the MBA of the public sector. The real difference between the two is about "Risk" MBA will be risk vs reward and PA will be risk avoidance -same scheme otherwise. My background is consumer behavior, public infrastructure, and public policy so I know both sides well. I bet Tanner would be playing to avoid risk (lol at the Coots). TDP was a bit of an academic too.

I agree, there is a ladder to climb. Than being said, look what was daid about TDP

https://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2010/11/30/1847498/terry-don-phillips-must-be-removed-as-clemsons-athletic-director


But the bottom line here at CU still comes back to football. TDP said when he picked Dabo for this job that he will sink or swim with Coach Swinney. Well, Dabo just sank. Terry Don Phillips must not be allowed to name the next coach at Clemson, and his lack of direction in all sports proves his judgement is faulty. A new AD must be named this winter and given time to evaluate and create a plan to get Clemson where it should be.

Terry Don Phillips must go now.


So who knows


I'll take experience every time. I picked a few schools at random

[1]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 1:30 PM
 

just now to reaffirm what I saw when I did this previously. Their AD bios show:

Southern Cal: Prior experience at Air Force, Idaho, San Diego State, Cincinnati, Colorado.

Georgia: He's only been at Fla & UGA... but his career shows a steady progression beginning in the 80s. And like most of the others, has won awards, been recognized by his peers, served on NCAA committees & advisory boards, etc. Experience in long-range planning, contracts, capital projects, budgeting... 40 years worth.

Ohio State: 32 years of experience as an AD... E Michigan, Iowa St, Arizona St. Again, a lifetime working his way up to eventually land at a bigtime destination school.

Ray Tanner? Nothing. Nada. Zip, zilch, zero. I still say it was a massive blunder.

edit: you mentioned TDP, after coaching he started at the bottom as an AD and worked his way up... 20 years at Baptist College, SW Louisiana, Arkansas, Okla State... before Clemson.

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Re: I'll take experience every time. I picked a few schools at random

[2]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 6:01 PM
 

Coots having a major blunder? Sounds like the norm.

Experience results can vary... sometimes you import prior problems as much as any success. I say to always chase talent. Talent can develop over time and that becomes quality experience but experience without talent is useless.

I think the coots have more problems than just Tanner. Back about 2-3 year ago, the AD at the University I worked at let me know during a basketball game that they were impressed with all new facilities etc that the Coots were building. The AD just got back from Cootlumbia and was just in awe in what they were doing - and being both an Alum of another SC school and knowing I was a Clemson alum kinda had to try and scare me. But to get back to the issue: This AD had no idea how the Coots were making it work. Their words were "if they could get even 10% of the money being spent, {this AD} could win a dozen championships". Now looking at the debt issues of the coots, COVID or not, it looks like the Coots were trying the Maryland method of just throwing money and debt and hoping for something, anything. Hire a middling coach and toss even more money there.

Getting back to Tanner, I think he isn't a very good AD but he is just holding the coot norm. It is easy to place the failures on Tanner but really, the failure with the coots are much deeper than the chair of the AD. A few years ago, Tanner, from other ADs was at least somewhat respected- at least from my source. However, time always shows truth. The coots are reverting to the norm of this historical success. Tanner or just about any other average to slightly better than average AD would not do much better than a slightly above average .500 or less football team. Considering that - is Tanner a failure? Do the coots think it is normal for them to be 9+ wins a season? They chased and spent money like an elite program with a substandard program/culture. No wonder they are hurting.


Agreed. LOL. Yes my friend, lets' stop splitting hairs on

[1]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 6:15 PM
 

the possible sources of their failures, and just wallow in their misery as Tiger comrades. Cheers!

FutureDoc

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Re: Agreed. LOL. Yes my friend, lets' stop splitting hairs on

[1]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 6:18 PM
 

LOL, splitting hairs is a great fun! Next beer is on me!


Re: I'll take experience every time. I picked a few schools at random


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 10:11 PM
 

Actually, didnt Tanner serve as an assistant AD or some similiar capacity at NC State? Seems like I heard a chicken talk about that one day. Fat is none of them even defend the guy anymore.

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Re: I'll take experience every time. I picked a few schools at random


Posted: Nov 13, 2020, 12:13 PM
 

Correct. He had some additional duties as an assistant AD at NC State and they've acknowledge his lack of administrative experience when they hired him.

https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-baseball/article18156899.html

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Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a

[2]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 10:34 AM
 

I never understood the decision to make Tanner AD.

When the AD was just the guy that went around to local booster clubs and shook hands, it made sense to offer the job to a popular former coach.

Now that the job is to be the CEO of a hundred million dollar business, it takes more than popularity.

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Maybe they can rent out that recording studio for

[2]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 10:45 AM
 

aspiring rap artists in Richland County to raise some extra money.

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There's something in these hills.


Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a

[2]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 10:53 AM
 

Didn’t the athletic department, and everyone in the football program including Dabo, take a voluntary 10% cut to their contracts earlier this year?

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Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 11:20 AM
 

Yes

https://www.tigernet.com/update/More-details-on-Clemson-athletics-pay-cuts-36086


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Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 11:08 AM
 

Seems like this would be a good time to suck, from a revenue perspective, since nobody can come to the games anyway.


Important # left out of htis calculus...

[1]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 11:13 AM
 

The residuals from Live PD could probably fund the buyout

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This is what I expected the whole time


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 11:15 AM
 

Their athletic department wasn’t exactly financially healthy before Covid hit.

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what's cute is the little tidbit that even the greatest WBB

[1]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 12:35 PM
 

program IN THE WORLD, loses money.

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Re: what's cute is the little tidbit that even the greatest WBB


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 10:12 PM
 

UConn loses money?

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Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 12:43 PM
 

I saw earlier that their Athletic Department will be down $54M in revenue and $34M deficit this year. Also if they fire Muschamp and the entire staff they owe $14.4 to Muschamp and another $15M to the rest of the staff.


Re: per SCAR "insiders"... they are not in a position to make a


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 7:03 PM
 

I read where the renegotiated Muscantcoach’s buyout (last year maybe?) and now it is “only” $13M

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Looks like it's time to put the Chocolate Chicken on Ebay.***

[2]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 12:48 PM
 



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Hope that chicken statue doesn't get repossessed!***

[1]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 1:36 PM
 



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Cant afford to fire him is brought up in all these

[2]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 1:41 PM
 

Discussion...it never holds true.

If saban said he wanted to coach for SCar, they would fire nyshcamp immediately and pay saban whatever he wanted. .. deal with debt later.


Buyouts are just 1 of the many factors they consider.

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Re: Cant afford to fire him is brought up in all these


Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 2:22 PM
 

I agree. I dont know their donor situation but I would assume most of these changes are funded by the movers and shakers that have more money then they know what to do with.


Sure... up until this year... 2020 is different. They shoulda

[1]
Posted: Nov 12, 2020, 7:47 PM
 

bit the bullet and canned him last year after 4-8, and pre-COVID. Finances are way too tight now, and as the SCAR poster said, the optics would be horrible. People out of work & struggling, businesses going under, or depending on another stimulus package to survive a while longer. Cuts across the board university wide. And even their fatcat alumni are probably more cautious. I talked to a former co-worker just a couple nights ago whose dad is fabulously wealthy. His dad got the jitters about COVID & the election and moved a lot of his assets into a cash position until the dust settles. Not a good time to hit him up for a bigger contribution...

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It's Beautiful


Posted: Nov 13, 2020, 1:19 AM
 

they are stuck with Muscoot until the buyout declines, and or until his contract has 4 years left, and he wants an extension for recruiting faith.........


they will be forced to hire a young coach who costs less. Hopefully they bungle that too

null


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