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Topic: Is Clemson the FSU of the 90’s-mid 2000’s?
Replies: 18   Last Post: Jun 9, 2019, 12:14 PM by: Harley®
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Is Clemson the FSU of the 90’s-mid 2000’s?


Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 3:21 PM
 

So many similarities between the way the programs have risen and why they rose...the most obvious being the Christian aspect of the coaching staff and recruiting. Mama’s love their boys to be in a Christian environment...and Clemson is on top of this, just like Bobby Bowden was back in the day. Clemson is the IT school right now...just like FSU was back in the day. I hope to goodness that we hang on as long as they did.

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Re: Is Clemson the FSU of the 90’s-mid 2000’s?

[2]
Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 3:51 PM
 

Similiar except with Clemson, you get more class, soon to be more championship and not a renegade program like the #####-Holes.

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Re: Is Clemson the FSU of the 90’s-mid 2000’s?

[1]
Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 4:32 PM
 

You must be joking. FSU of the 90s in no way resembled what is going on here from a character standpoint.

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Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 4:39 PM
 



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Is Uof5C now the same as Uof5C in the 1960's,70's,80's,90's,


Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 4:42 PM
 

and 00's? A drug infested, crime laden, crack house for loser wannabees? I'd say so.

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Re: Is Clemson the FSU of the 90’s-mid 2000’s?


Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 4:43 PM
 

I went to CU in the 90’s and developed a nice, healthy resentment for FSU. They were good, so I am really enjoying them suck under Silly Willie, while we have our run!

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Clemson is Clemson

[1]
Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 4:51 PM
 

...and that's not disrespecting what FSU did.

But your comparing apples and oranges.

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Re: Is Clemson the FSU of the 90’s-mid 2000’s?

[2]
Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 4:58 PM
 

I tend to think of Clemson's current success as something special, set apart from every other program. There will always be some similarities to present programs and programs in the past but Dabo and staff have put an overall stamp on this program that I would consider original. Think "new and improved" that we constantly hear about re a product.

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Their run was incredible because it lasted 14 years with no down years at all

[2]
Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 5:33 PM
 

However, they only won 2 titles and they had quite a lot of disciplinary issues which were spurred on by Bowdens "awww shucks" attitude towards it.

I don't know if our run will go uninterrupted for 10 more years, but if it does we will absolutely surpass their 2 titles.

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Re: Their run was incredible because it lasted 14 years with no down years at all


Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 7:34 PM
 

No. Because these kids are getting their degrees! As important - they are learning the value of having to be graded on "everything"! Which in the work force(real world) is where promotions and such come from if you respond well to it of course!

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Re: Their run was incredible because it lasted 14 years with no down years at all


Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 9:28 PM
 

F$U had good timing too. The state of Florida's population grew in the 1980s and in-state talent was abundant. NCAA problems followed Charlie Pell to UF and both Miami and F$U benefited. When F$U moved to the ACC in 1992, the wheels were already coming off Clemson FB (a topic often covered on this forum). Add to that F$U's "win at all cost" attitude, its no surprise they had a good long run. However, they got some issues now.

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You might say that winning a CFP is harder because...


Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 10:40 PM
 

...there's more subjective picking of who play who for a natty and if you are in the good graces like Bama there's a benefit...not to mention you have to beat two quality opponents to win it whereas any team can have a good day and their opponent a bad day. Less coincidence of winning over two quality teams.

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Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 9:30 PM
 



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My take (a bit long)

[2]
Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 10:08 PM
 

I suppose it's fair to say there is at least some similarity in the way the Clemson is dominating the ACC and the national landscape compared to the way FSU was dominating both throughout the 90s until 2000. I would even agree that it's fair to say that both programs had a head coach that was known to be an outspoken Christian. For me, however, that is where the similarities end.

First, consider the fact that both Dabo and Bowden were outspoken Christians. IMO, Dabo has done a better job of having an entire coaching staff that preaches the same Christian message compared to Bowden. I'm not trying to take anything away from some of Bowden's assistant coaches in regards to their own personal faith (i.e., Mark Richt), but from my memory it didn't seem to be as prevalent throughout the staff outside of Bowden, Richt and perhaps one or two others. Please correct me if my memory is incorrect about this.

Second, Dabo and staff have done a much better job of recruiting high character young men that fit the Clemson mold both on and off the field. That's not to say that FSU didn't have their own share of high character guys or that Clemson hasn't had at least a few bad apples under Dabo, but overall, I don't think there's any reasonable person that would argue that Clemson hasn't done a better job than FSU under Bowden at recruiting young men of high moral character and class. I fully recognize my bias, but as far as I'm concerned for as great as Bobby Bowden was, he's no Dabo Swinney.

Third, the family atmosphere of Clemson is second to none. It's not only something that can be felt by Clemson players, students, faculty and alumni, but it is so pervasive that it is typically the first thing that recruits mention about the school when they are being recruited. FSU simply didn't have that same dynamic.


In terms of on-field success, there are similarities, but I would make a couple distinctions. Clemson's peak would be the past four years where we played for 3 national championships, one semifinal game, and won two national championships. For FSU, their peak would have to be from 98-00 when they played for three straight national championships and won one. You could add in the '97 season as well to make it an identical four year comparison. In those four aforementioned years, Clemson finished 2nd, 1st, 4th, and 1st in the AP poll. In comparison, FSU finished 3rd, 3rd, 1st and 5th in the AP poll in their four year run. In those stretches, Clemson won 4 ACC titles and lost 4 games compared to FSU's 4 ACC titles and 5 losses.

Those stretches are extremely similar, but Clemson is clearly slightly better in terms of finishes and record, not to mention that it is much more difficult in the playoff era than in the BCS era given that there are two playoff games against top tier opponents instead of only one game.

For the entire period of FSU's dominance, they managed to finish in the top 5 for 14 straight years from '87-'00. With all due respect to Bama's recent dominance, that is IMO the most dominant 14 year run in history. They also managed to win the ACC every year from the time they joined to the end of that run in 2000. They also won 2 national championships in that time ('93,'99). For as great as Clemson has been under Dabo (especially since the offense took off since the 2011 season and the defense in 2012), it still be a couple more years before an objective person can say that Clemson's dominance exceed that of FSU for the decade. When Clemson wins 2 out of the next 3 national championships, I think it would be a fair assessment to put Clemson's run in the 2010's ahead of FSU's run in the 1990's. Even though we may not end up with a top 5 finish every year of the decade, I would much rather have 4 national titles than 2. I firmly believe that it's only a matter of time before that happens.

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Re: My take (a bit long)

[2]
Posted: Jun 8, 2019, 10:39 PM
 

Well put. I love where we are headed. But if we are strictly looking at football success, the long term dominance FSU displayed is hard to dispute. You mentioned playing for several titles in a row, and to take it one step further, if they had not played the 98 Championship against UT with a backup QB it is likely a much different story against the Vols. Chris Weinke was a stud College QB. That period from like 94 to 2000 was one of the most dominant in history imo, and ratified air if you looked at some of their out of conference wins. So, a valid question, and I like our character better, but in my estimation it is unfair to sell FSU'S accomplishments during that period short. Go Tigers.

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Re: Is Clemson the FSU of the 90’s-mid 2000’s?

[2]
Posted: Jun 9, 2019, 10:17 AM
 

Sorry, but Bobby Bowden was a good man...who in no way seemed to practice what he preached in regards to football. I actually think Tommy diverged more than a bit from his dad in that; credit where credit is due, Tommy seemed to actually mean it.

Anybody who describes FSU under Bowden as a "good Christian environment" is...well, misremembering history. A lot. There has been a toxic culture of utter permissiveness there in Tally for a good long while; the football team at one point even had a defense attorney on speed dial who got players sprung whenever the Tally cops were forced to run them in, which was often.

That long-standing culture of "anything goes" in regards to football players actually brought Jimbo Fisher into direct conflict with FSU president James Thrasher, who to his own credit has been fighting the good fight trying to rebuild that toxic culture, because that program was one of the most out of control in America...and still has (literally) the single lowest grad rate in D1 football.

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^this ^


Posted: Jun 9, 2019, 10:59 AM
 

Bobby Bowden was win at all cost. I remember him playing the all American during Bowden bowl I right after he was arrested for shoplifting. They barely won and the player waa was the difference maker. The Sebastian Janikowski was allowed to kick in that year's national championship game despite some incident. Bowden was quoted before as saying "it's the national championship game, of course he's playing "

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Yes, from the perspective that FSU had no ACC competition during that period***


Posted: Jun 9, 2019, 11:40 AM
 



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I won't say anything negative about FSU.


Posted: Jun 9, 2019, 12:14 PM
 

The Noles were top 5 for many years but Clemson playing on the biggest stage in the final game 3 times in 4 years is unprecedented.

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