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Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Replies: 38
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Standout [235]
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Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 9:55 AM
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I read that Clemson, SMU, and Miami can all go undefeated in conference play, and one will not
make the championship game. If that happens we better get back to divisional play fast. That would
be a typical ACC clown show.
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All-Pro [703]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:14 AM
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In your scenario, SMU would be left out as it would be the lowest ranked of the three.
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National Champion [7523]
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^^^This. No way SMU leaps us. But yes, its a stupid format b/c someone
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:19 AM
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could definitely get hosed.
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National Champion [7405]
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Re: ^^^This. No way SMU leaps us. But yes, its a stupid format b/c someone
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Oct 7, 2024, 1:55 PM
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ACC tie breaker for 3 way tie will fall down to the 5th tie breaker....
https://theacc.com/documents/2023/5/17/ACC_FOOTBALL_TIEBREAKER_POLICY.pdf
5. Combined win-percentage of conference opponents.
SMU/Miami could very well jump us. If so, Clemson will just have an easier path to the playoff if that happens.
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Rival Killer [2960]
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Re: ^^^This. No way SMU leaps us. But yes, its a stupid format b/c someone
Oct 7, 2024, 11:37 PM
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Right. We will not even have to play in a championship game.
SMU is going to look to try to blow everyone out. I have to think someone gets them and Miami.
Hopefully we can avoid any traps.
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Ring of Honor [22492]
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You are right, but any undefeated team getting left out of a CONFERENCE champ
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game? ] |
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game is proof that the system is just as stupid as before.
Last year, the committee proved that a group of human beings can't be trusted to make obvious decisions. FSU getting left out proved that they were all winging it. I think previous iterations did a good job, but that last group was a clown show. They actually elevated a prediction of how an injury would affect a team over conference championships AND record AND strength of schedule. That is obviously idiotic and it broke the legacy of the playoff.
So the the only way to screw up a 12 team playoff, is to have conferences so overly packed with teams, and then schedule it in a way that would allow a multiple undefeated teams to miss the conference championship game. It shouldn't be this hard.
It feels like they are intentionally setting up these stupid situations to have people want a certain future change. The 4-team playoff had worked perfectly. So they sabotage it was a retarded decision. Now they probably want to get rid of conferences for a future super league so they do this obviously stupid crap to make conference-championships a problem too.
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Campus Hero [13563]
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This basically happened to the Big XII in 2008
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:54 PM
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despite having divisions and all 3 teams having played each other. Sure it's not the exact same situation since all 3 of them actually played, but they ended up with 3 teams tied at 7-1 that all went 1-1 against the other teams and had to use a crappy tiebreaker that gave the spot to the highest ranked team in the BCS rankings.
Overall, I think the fan experience is better with the current format of not having divisions. Ideally we would still have 6 smaller conferences like we had back in the good old days, but we all know that's not happening. Given the current situation, I'd prefer this format even with the very, very small chance of 3 teams finishing tied without playing than having massive divisions where nobody ever plays teams from the other side.
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CU Medallion [19461]
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Yes, current format of no divisions is superior***
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:57 PM
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Ring of Honor [22492]
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Its totally different because they all lost 1. Thats just a tie. Normal.
Oct 7, 2024, 10:53 PM
[ in reply to This basically happened to the Big XII in 2008 ] |
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We are talking about an undefeated team. An unbeaten team should never lose a tiebreaker for a conference championship.
Having a tie is fine. Having tiebreakers is as old as sports. But being undefeated in your conference and not getting a chance to win it is insane and easily avoidable.
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Game Changer [1634]
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Re: This basically happened to the Big XII in 2008
Oct 8, 2024, 8:05 AM
[ in reply to This basically happened to the Big XII in 2008 ] |
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Funny Idea, guys. No need for divisions and no need for more than one tie-breaker because you play everybody.
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All-TigerNet [5935]
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Re: This basically happened to the Big XII in 2008
Oct 8, 2024, 8:08 AM
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You'd still need more than 1 tiebreaker in a 9-team, 8 game schedule. If Clemson beats FSU, FSU beats UNC, and UNC beats Clemson, and they all win the rest of their games, you are back to a 3-team tie with 1 loss each and no head-to-head tiebreak solution.
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Ring of Honor [22492]
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1-loss ties are not the issue. It's UNDEFEATED teams not getting a shot.***
Oct 8, 2024, 8:01 PM
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All-TigerNet [5935]
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Re: 1-loss ties are not the issue. It's UNDEFEATED teams not getting a shot.***
Oct 8, 2024, 10:43 PM
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1-loss teams still need a tiebreaker in the scenario suggested above. I didn’t suggest it.
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Scout Team [84]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game? ] |
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Is higher ranking the tie breaker? I thought I read something different. After head to head and conference winning percentage that would all be the same, I thought I saw where it would be winning percentage of conference opponents . Hopefully I read it wrong
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Standout [235]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:46 AM
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You read correctly, I believe when I read the piece it said SMU would get in for some reason. But it is very possible they all three can tie. Then would the 11-1 team left out sneak into the playoffs?
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Rival Killer [2960]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
Oct 7, 2024, 11:42 PM
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How in the world can you predict at this point in the season which team will have played the harder ACC schedule? The season is not even half way over.
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Asst Coach [855]
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Rival Killer [2759]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game? ] |
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If all 3 remained undefeated it will go by win percentages of conference teams they beat. Right now Clemson is on the outside looking in. It would be SMU and Miami in the conference championship. Which would hurt because winner gets a bye week in the playoffs.
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Athletic Dir [1147]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
Oct 7, 2024, 10:34 AM
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NOT!
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Tiger Cub [16]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:39 AM
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Simple solution, we should have a 12 team ACC playoff. Maybe one or two rounds at the highest ranked team's stadium and then 2 or 3 rounds at a neutral site.
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All-Pro [710]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:41 AM
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While possible, I don't think it's feasible that all 3 will go 8-0 in the ACC. SMU hasn't looked unbeatable, neither has Miami. We'll see as the season unfolds, that's why we play the games on the field instead of on paper.
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Orange Blooded [2461]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:44 AM
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I am not sure the rankings actually matter? Unless I am reading it wrong
https://theacc.com/documents/2023/5/17/ACC_FOOTBALL_TIEBREAKER_POLICY.pdf
Three (or More) Team Tie
Three team (or more) tiebreaker procedure will first be used to identify one Championship Game
representative. Once that team is determined, the tiebreaker procedures restart for the remaining tied
teams.
1. Combined head-to-head win-percentage among the tied teams if all tied teams are common
opponents.
2. If all the tied teams are not common opponents, the tied team that defeated each of the other tied
teams.
i. If all the tied teams are not common opponents, no tied team defeated each of the other
tied teams, but a tied team lost to each of the other tied teams, such team shall be
eliminated and removed from the tie.
3. Win-percentage versus all common opponents.
4. Win-percentage versus common opponents based upon their order of finish (overall conference
win-percentage, with ties broken) and proceeding through other common opponents based upon
their order of finish.
5. Combined win-percentage of conference opponents.
6. The tied team with the highest ranking by the Team Rating Score metric provided by SportSource
Analytics following the conclusion of regular season games.
7. The representative shall be chosen by a draw as administered by the Commissioner or
Commissioner’s designee.
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Dynasty Maker [3261]
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"5. Combined win-percentage of conference opponents."
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:49 AM
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This is the tiebreaker it would come down to in the scenario of all 3 teams being undefeated. Its impossible to predict at this point who would be the two teams in in that scenario. However, it's very likely that the team left out of the ACC Championship game in that scenario would get a spot in the Playoff by being in the top 11. It's also possible that all 3 teams could make the playoff in that scenario.
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Orange Blooded [2461]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game? ] |
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Fore reference
SMU has 7 common opponents with Miami & Clemson
Florida St
Louisville
Stanford
Duke
Pitt
Virginia
California
Clemson has 7 common opponents with Miami & SMU
Stanford
Florida St
Wake Forest
Virginia
Louisville
Virginia Tech
Pitt
Miami has 6 common opponents with Clemson & SMU
Virginia Tech
California
Louisville
Florida St
Duke
Wake Forest
I haven't worked it out in my head but this would likely come into play with #4. I
THINK this would give the edge to SMU and Clemson over Miami
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Orange Beast [6470]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:08 PM
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Why would #4 matter if everyone is undefeated in conference play?
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Orange Blooded [2461]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:14 PM
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Perhaps its the wording being a little weird but I took it as the order of finish of our opponents and then their common opponents.
I have to believe that in a 3 way tie all undefeated, they wouldn't have written the rules in such a manner that the first 5 tie breakers are all not applicable.
I could be completely wrong
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Scout Team [84]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:32 PM
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The first 4 or 5 tiebreakers would come in to play if there was a 3 way tie with each team having the same number of losses.
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Scout Team [84]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game? ] |
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The first 4 or 5 tiebreakers would come in to play if there was a 3 way tie with each team having the same number of losses. With one or more losses
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Orange Blooded [2461]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:36 PM
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That could be it as well.
I also don't believe all 3 of us will be sitting here in late Nov with 0 conference losses. I think VT, Pitt or Duke will hand someone a loss (hopefully not us). So this is really just an academic exercise IMHO
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Orange Beast [6470]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:40 PM
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Well sure. They apply to ties whatever that is. Its just some of them are moot if its a zero loss tie situation.
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Asst Coach [855]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 10:48 AM
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I see this could eventually lead to an interesting scenario where a team may not even play in their conference championship but win the Natty.
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Rival Killer [2862]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:37 PM
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Bama did that in 2017. this is why the 4 team playoff didn't work. Up to that point the CFP committee stressed the importance of winning your conference. Then allowed Bama to sneak in the playoff picture over OSU. I completely lost any confidence that the CFP committee would do the right thing after that. Then a very overrated undefeated FSU was passed up by jumping both Texas and Bama up 4 spots.
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Dynasty Maker [3358]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 12:52 PM
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If we get all the way down to criteria #7 then we’re screwed for sure. I also don’t like that they are using a team ranking from some “independent” firm. Why not just use the AP or the CFP committee rankings?
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Starter [250]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
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Oct 7, 2024, 1:49 PM
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I'd be shocked if that happens. I thin kall three teams have a decent chance of at least one loss. The ACC doesn't have a bunch of juggernauts, but there are bunch of competent teams in league play this season.
Miami has been living on a razors edge with their suspect defense and the ACC officiating bailing them out. I tend to think they'll drop an ACC game or two. They are at Louisville in their next game and then host FSU. Maybe FSU figures something out on offense with Glenn and that becomes a dog fight. Then they have Duke, @ GT, and @ Cuse. I think there's at least one loss in there.
SMU has @ Stanford, @ Duke, Pitt, BC, @ UVA, and Cal. Not a gauntlet, but a bunch of solid teams. They'll lose at least one of those game just by the law of averages.
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All-TigerNet [5757]
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espn playoff predictor results ...
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Oct 7, 2024, 1:50 PM
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first round game in Death Valley vs Ole Miss
given the wins out and no ACCCG appearance
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Head Coach [924]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
Oct 7, 2024, 11:30 PM
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Assuming 17 teams and 8 conference games:
Mathematically it is possible to have 3 undefeated teams even if you divide into a divisions of 9 and 7.
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All-TigerNet [5935]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
Oct 8, 2024, 8:15 AM
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9+7 = 16
It would depend on the schedule. If you only play the teams in your division, with no cross-division games, then no it's not mathematically possible to have 3 undefeated teams.
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Ultimate Tiger [38498]
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Write It Down, Keep The Receipt, SMU and/or Miami Will Pick Up Another Loss
Oct 8, 2024, 8:08 AM
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in Conf Play
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Commissioner [1250]
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Re: Clemson 11-1 and no ACC championship Game?
Oct 8, 2024, 8:04 PM
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3 ACC teams should then make the CFP! Just my Humble opinion. Go Tigers
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Replies: 38
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