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Fan [33]
TigerPulse: 97%
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For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 8:29 AM
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And this is a legitimate question. I feel like there are a lot of Dabo naysayers on this board who generally would disagree with whatever our HC decides no matter which way he goes. Is there someone out there that you feel like would be worth taking a shot on who could match the kind of production we’ve had since he’s taken over? Someone who could dominate our conference, give us more than 2 titles in the next 10 years, and seem to be genuinely invested in the PEOPLE playing for him. I don’t know Dabo any better than I know Donald Trump, but Dabo does seem to earnestly want to have successful people leave his program, either through obtaining a degree or moving on to play at the next level. There are a couple of other coaches I think are good coaches, but honestly I don’t know that anyone is going to come in and give us the same results without everyone losing their mind in a rebuild.
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110%er [3928]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 9:08 AM
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I don't see it that way. I see the "naysayers" as holding Dabo accountable unlike the majority of the board who go by the "in Dabo we trust" mantra. He's not infallible and should be called to question when he makes decisions that seem to come out of nowhere and no other top program coach would make.
Dabo has been an incredible asset to the university and has done an amazing job, but past success does not preclude him from criticism for some of his outside the norm decisions. I love the man and what he stands for and wouldn't trade him for any other coach out there. Still doesn't mean he can't be questioned.
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110%er [4078]
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That's the thing, though.
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Jan 17, 2025, 9:22 AM
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Saying you're "holding Dabo accountable," is a really, really generous way of reframing what is, essentially, just a gaggle of anonymous users venting their grievances on a public message board.
And this reframing is rooted in an over-identification with today's "accountability culture," where everyone with a laptop is suddenly a watchdog.
Dabo Swinney doesn't owe anyone but the AD and BOT an explanation for why or how he does what he does.
So, it's not that we who possess the self-awareness to understand that we know less about coaching football than Dabo does, don't accept that there are folks out there who don't possess the same self-awareness.
And that these folks will always focus on what's broken or needs improvement.
No, it's that we wonder why these same folks believe their constant grousing is making some sort of material difference in the way Dabo does things.
I go to the games and yell for the team. But I have no illusion that my contribution has anything to do with the outcome.
It's no different here.
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Tiger Titan [48541]
TigerPulse: 77%
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So you're saying that people shouldn't complain
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Jan 17, 2025, 10:12 AM
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since they don't know as much as Dabo, and because voicing those complaints on a message board doesn't change anything.
By the same token, why do you think your endorsements of him should be shared on a message board? They don't change anything either.
Therefore, we should just eliminate message boards, shouldn't we? We should all close our accounts. You go first.
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110%er [4078]
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Those are your words.
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Jan 17, 2025, 10:20 AM
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What I'm saying is for all your incessant harping, the sun still rises in the east and sets in the west, and Dabo Swinney remains the head coach calling the shots.
Same is true for my endorsements of him.
I think maybe you're a little too worked up lately, Judge.
Jamaica beckons.
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Tiger Titan [48541]
TigerPulse: 77%
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You don't seem to be giving people here nearly enough credit.
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Jan 17, 2025, 12:28 PM
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Do you actually believe that people post criticisms of Dabo because they believe it will cause a change in how Dabo does things?
People share their opinions here because they enjoy the discussion and conversation. They like hearing what others think too. There is no delusion that the coaching staff comes here for ideas.
I also think we all realize that Dabo is an expert in his field. It doesn't mean that he is infallible, or that we must agree with him on everything. Yet weirdly, some of you act like he can't be questioned, yet I see plenty of posts from you "homers" criticizing other experts in their field such as politicians, doctors, lawyers, and a wide range of sports reporters and analysts. Evidently, you think it's fine to blast them for being morons, idiots, etc., but Dabo is not to be questioned.
Perhaps that's something you should spend some time thinking about, because it's very strange.
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110%er [4078]
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Glad you can admit they're not looking to you for answers.
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Jan 17, 2025, 3:00 PM
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And that you realize Dabo is an expert in his field.
These are revelatory admissions.
Screenshotting for future reference.
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Head Coach [921]
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Paw Master [16757]
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CU Guru [1521]
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Game Changer [1679]
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Re: That's the thing, though.
Jan 17, 2025, 12:09 PM
[ in reply to That's the thing, though. ] |
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Agree completely. Besides, who is going to hold Dabo accountable?
BOT: Ummm, Dabo, we disagree with this hire.
And this would presumably be BEFORE the offer and any chance to succeed or fail.
I can see Dabo *discussing* a hire with Neff, and listening to his take, but I can’t see Neff overriding him on the decision. Just won’t happen.
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Tiger Titan [48541]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Dabo has been given carte blanche to do whatever he wants.
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Jan 17, 2025, 12:30 PM
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Otherwise, reasonable people involved would have told him that he should not and cannot promote an analyst with zero relevant experience to be the defensive coordinator.
The fact that he was allowed to do it, with unwavering support from most fans (because "In Dabo we trust" and all that) is very concerning. It's a large part of why we are in this mess, and why giving one person unilateral decision-making in these situations is usually a recipe for disaster.
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Orange Beast [6508]
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Re: Dabo has been given carte blanche to do whatever he wants.
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Jan 17, 2025, 3:06 PM
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There you go again Judge spouting out your nonsense about Dabo. Dabo is not listening to you and neither is any one else on this board. I picked up on your contempt for Dabo a long time ago. Keep on trolling 😂
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CU Guru [1521]
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Head Coach [921]
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Re: That's the thing, though.
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Jan 18, 2025, 2:52 PM
[ in reply to That's the thing, though. ] |
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Well said. Posting on Tigernet, rather we want to admit it or not, causes absolutely zero change. However, let's not pretend that being a vocal fan base is also void of any power whatsoever. Angry and disappointed fanbases have led to many a coaching changes across all sports. Dabos success is without contestation. 2 Nattys buy you a lot of leeway. Let us also not pretend that Clemson in the last 5 years is the same as we were in the years we were competing for Nattys, we have lost a step. Im not a college football coach, nor do I claim to be an expert, but it doesnt take a wise man to see we are currently not an elite program. Winning the conference title in the weakest Power 4 league is the minimum standard. Losing in the first playoff game in an otherwise uncompetitve game is a great metric for where we currently stand. Those of us critical of the direction of the program have been arguing for many of the changes Dabo has been slow to implement. This off-season is the FIRST where we have truly embraced the avenues available that others have been so readily participating. Let's be honest, Dabo is not on the hot seat, we arent going to fire a coach who just went to the playoffs and won the conference. However, for all of Dabos strengths as a coach he isnt infallible. Success has brought complacency bordering on arrogance. This offseason is the first where I truly believe Dabo has realized that his long trusted methods needing to be altered. I think most of us critical were just plain pissed it took this long for him to realize it.
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Orange Phenom [14997]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: For all the Dabo naysayers ] |
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Wow! Well said sir and I'm a Dabo man to the bone. No pun intended guys. Lol
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Fan [33]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 17, 2025, 9:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: For all the Dabo naysayers ] |
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100%. I agree that no one is infallible and that questioning him is to be expected. I lurked on this board for a LONG time before I finally decided to post, and there are plenty on here who just flat out want Dabo to not be Dabo. Do I agree with every decision he makes? Nope. But I think the man has earned the trust of his fan base, and his track record does grant him some leniency towards making unorthodox decisions. Even if everyone supported WG 100% and wanted to keep him, I still believe Dabo would have moved on based on performance. When has he not? But I also think he tried to give people a legitimate shot.
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Tiger Titan [48541]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Commissioner [1262]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: For all the Dabo naysayers ] |
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I’m pretty sure we’re not the one holding Dabo accountable. He seems to have great people around him. Time and time again he speaks on how he meets with other to speak on things. He clearly owns that he doesn’t have it all figured and that he’s far from perfect. That is evident through the state of the football program.
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Tiger Titan [48541]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Yes, and then he turns around and goes off on fans who question him
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Jan 17, 2025, 12:31 PM
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and claims that he has never failed at anything.
LOL.
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CU Guru [1521]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: For all the Dabo naysayers ] |
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If the naysayers were criticizing the actual problems, I'd be more inclined to give them leeway.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 2:39 PM
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What in your opinion are the actual problems?
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 3:18 PM
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The fundamental problem is we don't have elite talent.
The reasons we don't have elite talent are varied, but basically, Clemson is a relatively small school, in a small town, in a relatively small state. It's simply harder to be elite at Clemson than it is to be elite at places like Alabama, Georgia, Ohio St, etc.
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Head Coach [921]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 3:34 PM
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I posted in response to this below. Long story short...yes we arent Oh St or Texas or Notre Dame, but the lack of elite recruits/roster is tied into all things related to the direction of the program. The changes needed seem to be taking place this offseason. From coaching changes, to portal/roster usage, and a general shift in philosophy. This however took WAY TOO LONG to implement. We are just now embracing the methods our competition has been happily implementing for years. It is why so many of us "nay-sayers" were frustrated. The methods of our 2 Nattys under Dabo were yesterday's news and obsolete for today's college football. I'm happy to see where these recent improvements take us.
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CU Guru [1521]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 3:37 PM
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Those methods don't mean we are going to be elite. We still have to compete against other schools that have a lot more resources than we do to get elite talent.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 3:57 PM
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So we're doomed to never compete for Nattys again? If that's the case how do we afford to pay one of the highest cumulative coaching salaries in college football?
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 4:20 PM
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Nope. I didn't day that. You didn't comprehend my post. That's because you're thinking emotionally and not logically.
I'd didn't say we can't be elite again. I said it's harder to do at Clemson than at other places. You twisted around what I said, which is dishonest on your part.
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Head Coach [921]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 7:57 PM
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I understand your point. My argument isn't that Clemson doesn't have disadvantages..we do. We aren't a large university with a large alumni base. Our media market is small. Our conference is a boat anchor slowing us down. However, these are in my opinion not the reasons for Clemson's slide to a tier below elite. Simply put, we were slow to adapt and change. This offseason the changes have come to fruition that many of us have clamored for. If e aren't recruiting elite talent, let's fill the gaps with the portal (the Purdue DE is an example). If we arent coaching and developing properly let's not fix the problem internally (Riley and Luke). These are deficienceies that were driven by an outdated philosophy that no longer works. Happily, Dabo seems to have realized this and corrected course...it just took a couple of unnecessarily long years to match the methods of our competition.
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Head Coach [921]
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All-In [10876]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 17, 2025, 9:29 AM
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And this is a legitimate question. I feel like there are a lot of Dabo naysayers on this board who generally would disagree with whatever our HC decides no matter which way he goes. Is there someone out there that you feel like would be worth taking a shot on who could match the kind of production we’ve had since he’s taken over? Someone who could dominate our conference, give us more than 2 titles in the next 10 years, and seem to be genuinely invested in the PEOPLE playing for him. I don’t know Dabo any better than I know Donald Trump, but Dabo does seem to earnestly want to have successful people leave his program, either through obtaining a degree or moving on to play at the next level. There are a couple of other coaches I think are good coaches, but honestly I don’t know that anyone is going to come in and give us the same results without everyone losing their mind in a rebuild.
three points
If you have to state the question is legit, it is not legit
People who have joined in the last two weeks don't ask legit questions
Only a coot troll would sign up for t-net then immediate jump into the deep end
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Fan [33]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 17, 2025, 9:36 AM
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1. Said it was legit so people wouldn’t think i was just being sarcastic.
2. In the post, said I’ve been reading in here for years, just finally decided to speak up in the community.
3. Wouldn’t leak on a coot if their pants were on fire. I tailgate in orange every Saturday, friend.
Pretty good job going 3/3 on being wrong there.
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All-In [10876]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 17, 2025, 9:56 AM
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1. Said it was legit so people wouldn’t think i was just being sarcastic.
2. In the post, said I’ve been reading in here for years, just finally decided to speak up in the community.
3. Wouldn’t leak on a coot if their pants were on fire. I tailgate in orange every Saturday, friend.
Pretty good job going 3/3 on being wrong there.
Congrats to you for proving all three to be true!
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Fan [33]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 10:03 AM
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Ah yes, my post in support of Dabo must indeed prove I’m a coot. You got me! 🤷🏻♂️
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All-In [10257]
TigerPulse: 58%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 9:46 AM
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Here is a suggestion. The naysayers could actually do some work and make a list of the records of the so called "top" 25 coaches for the past 10 years or so and see where Dabo ranks. Dabo is a Hall of Fame coach and there is no coach out there who can lead our program any better than he is. It is hard to win year after year and until people understand and appreciate winning, there will always be uneducated fans who think a team is unsuccessful if they do not go undefeated.
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All-In [10876]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 9:57 AM
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Here is a suggestion. The naysayers could actually do some work and make a list of the records of the so called "top" 25 coaches for the past 10 years or so and see where Dabo ranks. Dabo is a Hall of Fame coach and there is no coach out there who can lead our program any better than he is. It is hard to win year after year and until people understand and appreciate winning, there will always be uneducated fans who think a team is unsuccessful if they do not go undefeated.
do the same thing for the last five years...
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Tiger Titan [48541]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Two things can be true at the same time.
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Jan 17, 2025, 10:01 AM
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Truth #1: Dabo has been great for our program, has been transformational, and is the best head coach for our program.
Truth #2: Given his stature and what he is paid, he deserves to be held accountable for his decisions. This includes the mistakes he has made, some of which have been big.
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Fan [33]
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Re: Two things can be true at the same time.
Jan 17, 2025, 10:05 AM
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In what way is he not held accountable?
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110%er [4078]
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He's held accountable.
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Jan 17, 2025, 10:37 AM
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It's just that this crowd gets a little poopy when they're reminded he's not accountable to them.
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Playmaker [354]
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Re: Two things can be true at the same time.
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Jan 17, 2025, 10:37 AM
[ in reply to Two things can be true at the same time. ] |
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Held Accountable by whom? You? The people on this board? Give me a break. Let the AD and the BOT hold him accountable. As far as opinions, everyone should be able to express theirs. This is a good place to vent, and get feedback. But the constant DDS, and naysaying by some on here, and JK you are a very good example, well, it gets old after a while.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100960]
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Name them rather than generalizing and if you'll hold your incessant opinion...
Jan 17, 2025, 11:40 AM
[ in reply to Two things can be true at the same time. ] |
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that you're never going to change your mind we can have a discussion.
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Head Coach [958]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 10:16 AM
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Here we go… Never ever question lord Dabo who is the almighty and knows more about football than any other human being on the planet.
My goodness
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Fan [33]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 17, 2025, 10:25 AM
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Not really saying that. My question is what do you think he should have done differently or who do you think could do it better? Based on BS and WG, looks like you get 3 seasons to figure it out, or you get moved on. I don’t necessarily agree with all of the hires, particularly the former players with little to no coaching experience, but at the same time, it looks like some form of QC exists.
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110%er [4078]
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You've got a troll's pulse so I hesitate to engage.
Jan 17, 2025, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: For all the Dabo naysayers ] |
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But your use of hyperbole in seeking to undermine the OP deserves a certain amount of scorn.
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Head Coach [958]
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Re: You've got a troll's pulse so I hesitate to engage.
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Jan 17, 2025, 11:37 AM
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Man you can say whatever you want but please quit with the pulse thing. Like I see you point that out all the time and honestly… nobody cares.
My pulse is that bc I say what I actually think instead of just blindly following the leader. Could my pulse be 100%? Sure it could… I could post how perfect Dabo is all day long and it would be 100% but I’d be lying about what I really think.
The only people that care about pulse or likes are children who need an ego boost to make themselves feel more important than they are.
I get it bro… you love Dabo and he can do no wrong. That’s fine you’re entitled to that. But don’t come at everyone else who has a different opinion.
Btw… Dabo just validated that he made mistakes with his recent moves. He’s now using the portal for actual contributors. He just fired a bad decision that he made. Nobody is perfect. Not me not you and not Dabo.
Don’t misunderstand… I fully agree he should have a statue built the second he hangs it up and we should give him the highest of honors in every area possible.
But you can’t live or bargain on past accomplishments. Yes he has 2 titles and yes he’s a great coach but he’s not above reproach. When people voice their opinions… it’s just that… an opinion. It doesn’t mean we hate Dabo it just means we see what we see.
You see it your way I see it my way and so on. That’s the whole point of a message board. When I feel like he makes a mistake I’m going to voice my opinion and that’s my right as it is yours to defend him.
But paying so much attention to a pulse I mean bro who cares? If that’s how your judging people then what does that say about you?
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110%er [4078]
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I judge a restaurant by its rating.
Jan 18, 2025, 2:21 PM
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What this says about me is that I have common sense.
A restaurant with an 82% customer rating? Wouldn't frequent.
A TNETTER with an 82% pulse? Wouldn't look to for serious dialogue. Only Judge Keller carries enough weight to do that. (And even he's fading fast.)
But TU for a decent poast.
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Head Coach [921]
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Re: I judge a restaurant by its rating.
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Jan 18, 2025, 3:55 PM
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...but every time I've posted a critique of Dabo it seems to get a thumbs down? Does that means it's not worthy of reading or void of any rational thought? Perhaps it just means that on Tnet the easy way to achieve a high pulse is simply to post a subject pleasing to the lowest common denominator of fan. Empty of critical thinking or analysis.
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CU Guru [1521]
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Re: I judge a restaurant by its rating.
Jan 18, 2025, 4:23 PM
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The critique s don't address the actual problem.
For example, if Wes Goodwin was not the defensive coordinator, thus team still would not have been elite. Is it possible the defense might have been better? Sure. Would they be elite? No.
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Head Coach [921]
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Re: I judge a restaurant by its rating.
Jan 18, 2025, 8:00 PM
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Who ultimately shoulders the blame for a lack of recruiting and depth at DE? Roster management failures? Inability to backfill anyone other than a 4th string QB? The portal isn't a cure all, that's not my point. We stuck to a system and philosophy that was outdated for too long. As a result we got passed by. This problem seems to in the process of being corrected. However, it was a self-imposed sanction for no other reason than pride.
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CU Guru [1521]
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Re: I judge a restaurant by its rating.
Jan 19, 2025, 3:10 PM
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Who is ultimately to blame? It's Clemson being a smaller school, and South Carolina being a smaller state.
We didn't get stuck. The problem is is I said in another post, we don't have as many tools in our toolbox as other schools. When the rest of the country catches up to what we're doing, it's not as easy for us to do something else as it is for other schools.
As I said in a previous post, a few of the things that gave us and a leg up in previous years was being one of the first teams to use social media recruiting, using an offense that was different from what a lot of the other big teams were using, and the way that Dabo set up program with the whole Family atmosphere and being a player coach.
In that time we had an actual advantage. Now, even if we start using the portal or using NIL money, the other schools are doing that already. So it's not gonna be like we have an actual advantage over other schools like we did before. All it means is we're just doing the same thing that the other schools are.
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
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Joined: 1995
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That's the aim of the pumper cult.
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Jan 18, 2025, 7:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: I judge a restaurant by its rating. ] |
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TD anything remotely objective to squash or intimidate any critical thinking, straight from the Mao Zedong ideology.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: You've got a troll's pulse so I hesitate to engage.
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Jan 18, 2025, 3:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: You've got a troll's pulse so I hesitate to engage. ] |
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The fact that this reply got 2 thumbs down just reinforces your point about the tigernet "pulse." Your post was professional, factual, and polite. So what did 2 people do because your post was critical of Dabo? They gave you a thumbs down. That in and of itself goes to show how meaningless the thumbs up/down really is.
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Game Changer [1641]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 11:24 AM
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What some fans are unwilling to admit is that "it's easier to get to the top than to stay at the top." We all loved the National Championship years. Who in their right mind wouldn't. But so did the Alabama fans. And so did the Georgia fans. And so did the Florida State fans. And so did the Ohio State fans. And so did the Michigan fans. But where are they now? You're never going to stay on top. I'm not sure there is a scientific explanation. I suspect it's that it's hard to stay hungry when your belly is full. But whatever the case, the key to continued success is staying close; not falling all the way to the bottom. It can be done. See Florida State! Clemson has stayed close. And our guys are working their way back up the mountain as we speak. They're doing so under the very able leadership of Dabo Swinney. The issue is whether our "glass is half empty or half full." Half empty guys struggle to find joy in life. If everything isn't perfect, they're determined to b*@#h and moan. And that's their prerogative. But it accomplishes nothing of value. Dabo removed any doubt when he told us he does not look at social media, and he doesn't accept the criticism of those from whom he would not ask advice. So if you need to vent; go ahead. But don't kid yourself into thinking you're holding anyone accountable. That's a grand delusion! Go Tigers!
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 4:05 PM
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First, Ohio St is playing for another national title on Monday. Secondly, sustaining excellence IS far more difficult than achieving it once. The problem however is that our failure to sustain this excellence is of our own doing. Clemson failed to adapt, our competion has been using all available resources to compete. Until this offseason Clemson has been operating under its own self-imposed sanctions. Failing to play by the same rules as everyone else has placed us at a competitive disadvantage. These are designs that until recently were the guiding program philosophy of Dabo.
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Team Captain [481]
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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1
Jan 17, 2025, 2:12 PM
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Someone needs to hold dabo accountable. He is making $11.5m which is elite money…and hasn’t come close to producing elite results in the last 5 years. Just facts
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CU Medallion [19824]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 14199
Joined: 2009
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Fill 'er up.
Jan 17, 2025, 3:06 PM
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It has to be frustrating that pumping gas doesn't pay near that well. We all have to live with our choices, though.
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Fan [33]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 17, 2025, 3:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: For all the Dabo naysayers ] |
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Again, what is he not be held to account for? We’ve had one season with less than 10 wins in how long? Yea, dude is getting PAID. But who are you swapping him for to pay less money and give you better results? I want the natty days back as bad as anyone, but idk who gets us back there quicker nor what methods they would use.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 3:35 PM
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So we should just be content that were not South Carolina bad, but we also aren't Oh St elite? 10 wins in a crappy conference is the new standard?
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: For all the Dabo naysayers ] |
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Posting on a message board isn't holding Dabo accountable.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 18, 2025, 3:36 PM
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Correct...but neither is blind obedience helpful.
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Paw Master [16531]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2015
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If he eventually does the things I say that he needs to, am I still a naysayer?***
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Jan 17, 2025, 3:32 PM
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1995
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Yes. I saved a bunch of people some time.***
Jan 18, 2025, 2:31 PM
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Commissioner [1280]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 3:48 PM
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Most of us “naysayers” were on here venting frustration about bad hires, lack of portal usage, and lack of NIL use in recruiting. I am thrilled with the changes and about face Dabo has taken on all of those fronts he has made the last few months.
For some reason the pumpers can’t get through their sunshine glasses that we all want the same thing, a winning football program. We don’t hate dabo, most of us don’t want him gone, we just wanted him to adapt and get rid of some dead weight like Wes. He’s done that now, and I’m confident these changes will put us back on the right track toward being able to go toe to toe with elite teams again and win the majority of those matchups. The fact that Dabo made these changes show that even he recognized “staying the course” wasn’t working, which is what so many pumpers on this board wanted us to do, dig their heels in and pretend it’s still 2018
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Head Coach [958]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 17, 2025, 5:39 PM
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Standing ovation for you Bravesfan!
Articulated beautifully
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1995
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Exactly this.
1
Jan 18, 2025, 2:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: For all the Dabo naysayers ] |
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It’s never been about “defending Dabo” or the program—it’s about certain pumpers hating to admit they were wrong. Instead of acknowledging that valid criticism can lead to progress, they double down and take it personally like pointing out flaws makes you less of a fan.
Most of us “naysayers” want the same thing as everyone else: a winning program. We weren’t venting frustration because we hated Dabo; we cared and wanted to see changes to help the team compete at the highest level again. The fact that Dabo made these adjustments shows he recognized that “staying the course” wasn’t working and this is something pumpers refused to accept for years.
Nobody’s claiming a victory lap here; we’re just pointing out that the criticism wasn’t blind negativity—it was calling for what needed to happen. It’s okay to admit things weren’t perfect and celebrate the changes happening now. That’s what real fans do.
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Exactly this.
Jan 18, 2025, 3:10 PM
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This is just ridiculous. The problem us, your criticism wasn't valid. You're just rage posting thinking that the problem is easy to fix. It's not. The underlying problem is that the program simply doesn't have elite talent. Until that issue is fixed, nothing else will bring about the results you want.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: Exactly this.
Jan 18, 2025, 3:28 PM
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Lack of elite talent...isnt there are direct correlation between the direction of the program and the lack of elite recruits? Isn't failure to address coaching deficiencies related to this? Is there not a problem with addressing roster shortcomings through the portal a problem as well? My point...this all goes back to the general philosophy of the program (Dabo). This off-season seams to be the first in the last 5 where we've actually looked inward, evaluated, and changed what wasn't working. The methods that won us 2 Nattys are yesterday's news and obsolete but todays standards. Why many of us were so frustrated was that in 'staying the course' was never going to work. I'm happy to see the changes and adaptions this off-season. They were long overdue.
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 14528
Joined: 1995
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Re: Exactly this.
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Jan 18, 2025, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Exactly this. ] |
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How so? What’s ridiculous is you claiming that using the portal, NIL, and hiring legitimate experienced coordinators and coaches isn’t easy.
How did 99% percent of all other programs figure it out if it was so hard?
Anyway, I do want to end this way. I see your point but it’s ok to disagree. What we can agree on is that excitement over recent changes, fair?
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Exactly this.
Jan 18, 2025, 3:40 PM
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99% of other programs aren't fairing any better than us, with them using NIL, portal, and experienced coaches. The problem is, and always has been, elite talent, and none of these methods fix that problem as easily as you think they do.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: Exactly this.
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Jan 18, 2025, 3:44 PM
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Why are we not longer able to recruit elite talent? When we were winning/competing for Natty talent was not an issue. What has changed then? Why is elite talent no longer attracted to Clemson?
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 14528
Joined: 1995
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You're asking the right questions.***
Jan 18, 2025, 4:13 PM
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Exactly this.
Jan 18, 2025, 4:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Exactly this. ] |
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Several things. When Dabo first started winning, running Chad Morris is offense, that was more unique. The elite teams back then were playing mire run oriented, smash mouth football, such as Alabama and LSU, and you had Florida and Ohio St. running the "Tim Tebow" offense under Urban Meyer. The better skill players wanted to come to Clemson, because they would be utilized in a different way. No, all those schools have gone to more passing based offenses, so Clemson no longer has that advantage.
Additionally, when Dabo was first hired, Clemson was one of the first schools to use social media heavily in recruiting. Now, everybody is doing it. Those are a couple of factor right offhand.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: Exactly this.
Jan 18, 2025, 8:03 PM
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...so we failed to adapt? Stuck with a formula that was innovative upon introduction but has since become stale and stagnant. That's sounds like a coaching and philosophy manifesting issues in the entire program.
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Exactly this.
Jan 19, 2025, 2:56 PM
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No, we didn't fail to adapt. You can only adapt to the point that your abilities will allow.
The underlying issue is, Clemson is a relatively small school, in a small town, in a relatively small state. It's simply harder for us to be elite that it is for other top schools. That doesn't mean we can't be elite. It's just means it harder to do here, and will be less frequently here, compared to Alabama, Georgia, Ohio St, etc. We simply don't have as many tools in the tool box as those other schools. It's harder for us to adapt to changing environments than it is for other top schools.
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 14528
Joined: 1995
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I think we're actually saying the same thing here.
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Jan 18, 2025, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Exactly this. ] |
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My opinion is that roster mismanagement is the real reason for the step back, and I guess we agree on that—you’re just calling it a lack of talent. Whether it’s misevaluation, poor recruiting, lack of NIL usage, inexperienced coaches, or some combination of all these factors, it boils down to the same core issue.
The good news is, it seems like steps are finally being taken to address these problems. Hopefully, that puts us back on track sooner rather than later.
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: I think we're actually saying the same thing here.
Jan 18, 2025, 4:34 PM
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We're not saying the same thing. The roster isn't being mismanaged. I'm saying the reason the talent is missing is because the elite players don't want to come to Clemson like they did in the past. You are wearing orange-colored classing and pretending we are doing something wrong, instead of facing the reality that it's simply harder to convince elite players to come to Clemson that it is one of the bigger schools.
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 14528
Joined: 1995
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Re: I think we're actually saying the same thing here.
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Jan 18, 2025, 7:59 PM
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You’re saying the talent is missing because elite players aren’t choosing Clemson like they did before. I’m saying the same thing but pointing out that we need to dig deeper into why that’s happening. Talent doesn’t just randomly stop coming—it’s influenced by factors like recruiting strategies, NIL usage, and coaching.
It’s not about wearing orange-colored glasses or pretending everything is fine. It’s about acknowledging that some decisions (or lack of them) in recent years might have contributed to this shift. If you’re saying it’s harder to compete with bigger schools now, doesn’t that suggest we need to adapt and find ways to level the playing field, like improving how we use the portal or NIL?
Blaming “elite players not wanting to come here” sounds more like giving up than addressing the root cause. The changes we’ve seen recently suggest that even Dabo recognizes some of these issues, which is a good thing.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: I think we're actually saying the same thing here.
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Jan 18, 2025, 10:05 PM
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Well said. Wanted to reply myself but after reading your response who said it all.
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: I think we're actually saying the same thing here.
Jan 19, 2025, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: I think we're actually saying the same thing here. ] |
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The things you are "digging deeper" for are not going to magically fix the problem. One of your big things has been firing Wes Goodwin. Wes Goodwin is not the reason elite players aren't coming to Clemson.
The portal isn't the be all end all solution. If elite players aren't coming here as recruits, it's more likely than not they won't come via the portal either.
NIL certainly does have an effect on recruiting elite players. It can certainly help to spend more money on recruits. However, we are still going to be behind the curve in NIL money relative to the other top programs. Again, it's no guarantee this will solve the issue.
Regard your first point, it's also equally important to ask why elite player DID come to Clemson in the previous decade. You're ignoring the issue that the environment is different back then than it is now, and we may have simply had advantages then that we don't have now.
"Blaming 'elite players not wanting to come here' sounds more like giving up than addressing the root cause."
This is the problem, you're thinking emotionally, and not logically. It doesn't matter what it "sounds like." The point I'm making is that you have to address the issues, but you have to address the ACTUAL issues. You aren't addressing the actual issues. You are trying to pretend the answer is easy. You are trying to pretend that all we have to do is fire Wes Goodwin, it get more portal players. It's a lot more complicated that that. That is not giving up. It's acknowledging that the problem is more difficult to fix.
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CU Guru [1521]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Exactly this.
Jan 18, 2025, 3:13 PM
[ in reply to Exactly this. ] |
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We already do have a winning program.
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Head Coach [921]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Ring of Honor [22555]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
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Joined: 2018
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
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Jan 18, 2025, 3:49 PM
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On an anonymous message board people should be able to respectfully say whatever they want under the bounds TNet has established and everyone else should stop trying to convince them otherwise.
Hint: this is all for entertainment purposes only and not to be taken too seriously, one way or the other.
And certainly the charge should not be led by someone who has barely been here a minute and doesn’t contribute.
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Fan [33]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: For all the Dabo naysayers
Jan 19, 2025, 7:21 AM
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Good grief 😒 So my opinion only matters when i get enough thumbs up? Why disagree with what a lot of these people say then? They have thousands. Take a spin and stop being the TU police.
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