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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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"Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:13 PM
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I have seen it written in many different places and too many times on Tigernet to even count that Clemson has been in a program decline for the last 3 seasons.
That is absolutely untrue.
Please spare me the history lesson or the game recaps because I'm aware of what's been happening, and I'm aware of all of the talking points that people are using.
"Even the wins were ugly in '21 and '22."
"Clemson is 4-4."
"It's so obvious the talent isn't there anymore."
There is one major thing that fans, reporters and people in general are getting wrong when evaluating the program.
Clemson's offense and Clemson's defense are both aspects of the program.
Clemson's offense has gone to absolute garbage in terms of playmaking ability, fundamentals, turnovers and many other things.
On the other hand, Clemson's defense continues to carry the torch and until this season has been able to keep the program in the national picture. Yes in 2021 and 2022, Clemson was still in the national picture even if it didn't end up in the playoffs.
The talent is still there on defense and not just with the older players who are heading out the door. Parker, Woods and Barnes are talented players who will be leading the defense for a few years moving forward and there are more talented players on the way to help them.
Why hasn't Clemson's defense been able to keep the program in the national picture this season?
Because the offense has given up an unprecedented number of points while the OFFENSE is on the field.
In 2021 and 2022, Clemson's offense was boring but it let the defense have a chance most of the time. A great exception was last season's Notre Dame game.
In Clemson's 4 losses this season there have been 9 turnovers.
In those 4 losses Clemson's defense has given up 28, 17, 17 and 17 points in regulation. Even further some of those points, while scored with the defense on the field, were set up by turnovers by Clemson's offense.
If you blindly ask most fans, they would expect their team to go 3-1 at worst in those 4 games based on the points allowed statistic.
Clemson's defense does have faults and they are not perfect, but they are certainly not part of some downward spiral for the program.
Moving forward, please correctly phrase it as an offensive decline for the Clemson Tigers.
That decline must be fixed if the team wants to get back on track, but in the meantime please give the defense the respect that they are doing their best to earn each and every week!
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National Champion [7157]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Lost to Duke. Haven't played in Death Valley since forever.
Nov 1, 2023, 1:16 PM
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every game is a Noon game.
the only night games are vs terrible programs
very likely to go 4-5 unless the 2nd string team gets to play significant time
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Lost to Duke. Haven't played in Death Valley since forever.
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:25 PM
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I don't disagree with any of that, and while I feel the Duke loss was more of a joint poor effort, nothing else you referenced is the fault of the defense.
Our boring, inefficient offense is to blame.
Also, I am completely on board with your Shipley takes and have been since last season.
I feel horrible that he is hurt and I don't think his absence makes the team better because 2 is better than 1, I am interested to see if our OL can give Mafah a chance to get a rhythm on Saturday.
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All-In [10515]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Lost to Duke. Haven't played in Death Valley since forever.
Nov 1, 2023, 1:41 PM
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Give me boring offense all day if turnovers are limited to one per game, and for that once-per-game turnover not being one that allows the other team to score or to end up in our red zone.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Lost to Duke. Haven't played in Death Valley since forever.
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:51 PM
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In retrospect, we didn't know what we had until it got worse.
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Orange Blooded [2196]
TigerPulse: 81%
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Re: Lost to Duke. Haven't played in Death Valley since forever.
Nov 2, 2023, 12:52 AM
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You didn't know we were elite???
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Lost to Duke. Haven't played in Death Valley since forever.
Nov 2, 2023, 11:15 AM
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That was referencing the boring offense that everybody hated in the '21 and '22 seasons.
We all thought those offenses were as bad as it could get until this season.
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Orange Beast [6287]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Lost to Duke. Haven't played in Death Valley since forever.
Nov 2, 2023, 2:05 PM
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Okay okay. If we haven't declined then everyone else has gotten better. It's semantics.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Lost to Duke. Haven't played in Death Valley since forever.
Nov 2, 2023, 2:24 PM
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You missed the point of the post or you just read the title.
The point is that Clemson's offense has fallen to pieces and it is giving the defense a bad name.
Clemson's defense through 8 games seems as talented and is producing on par with the top defenses from Clemson from 2012-2021.
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National Champion [7157]
TigerPulse: 95%
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there is no decline in college football
Nov 1, 2023, 1:18 PM
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1 and 2
are huge gap better than
3 and 4
and if you're not top4, it's a wash. eeach team equally sucks.
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Freshman [-92]
TigerPulse: 34%
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Re: there is no decline in college football
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:03 PM
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So you think that being #5 in the nation with a 10-2 record is entirely equal to being a 0-12 unranked laughingstock?
Put the bottle down, bro.
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Tiger Titan [47698]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Is that you, Mrs. Goodwin?***
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:19 PM
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Clemson Icon [24892]
TigerPulse: 94%
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LOL
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:24 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is that you, Mrs. Goodwin?***
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:26 PM
[ in reply to Is that you, Mrs. Goodwin?*** ] |
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Care to refute any of it?
Wes took his lumps last season as he replaced the best DC in Clemson history, but he appears to be keeping the defensive product to the standard that Clemson fans would hope for.
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Tiger Titan [47698]
TigerPulse: 77%
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I don't understand why the distinction matters to you.
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:39 PM
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I think it's clear that our offense is a bigger problem than our defense right now.
To me, the bottom line is that you win as a team and lose as a team.
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Clemson Icon [24892]
TigerPulse: 94%
54
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Joined: 2002
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LOL
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:40 PM
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All-In [10515]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: LOL
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:43 PM
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You smoked him, but he won’t learn any lessons from it.
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Legend [7093]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: LOL
Nov 1, 2023, 1:59 PM
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"LOL" is not smoking anybody.
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Clemson Icon [24892]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Joined: 2002
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LOL
Nov 1, 2023, 2:04 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I don't understand why the distinction matters to you.
Nov 1, 2023, 1:56 PM
[ in reply to I don't understand why the distinction matters to you. ] |
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"You win as a team and lose as a team" is more appropriate in sports like basketball and soccer where all players are connected to scoring and stopping the opponent from scoring.
Yes the overall record goes to the team, but football is more aligned with baseball or softball pitchers.
If the pitcher is terrible, then it doesn't do any good to score 10 runs and give up 11.
The oddest thing right now with Clemson football is that it is the scoring side of team who is giving up points to the opposition.
I wonder if your buddy Brad would call it a team loss if his point guard made a handful of shots in his own basket in a 4 point loss. That's essentially what our offensive players are taking turns doing at the moment.
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Tiger Titan [47698]
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Yes, Brad would call it a team loss.
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:04 PM
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Because that's what it is.
Not sure why you brought up Brownell since basketball has nothing to do with this discussion.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Yes, Brad would call it a team loss.
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:32 PM
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I brought up Brownell because I referenced basketball as a "win as a team, lose as a team" sport.
Then I used a hypothetical Clemson basketball reference in a Clemson sports discussion to highlight how ridiculous of an action a basketball player would have to take to equal what Clemson's offense has done to Clemson's defense this season.
If Brad keep playing the hypothetical point guard mentioned above after he misses multiple layups in a game this year, I will come back on and mention Dabo during basketball season to compare it to how Shipley still gets the ball at the goal line.
Then we will be all square on the cross-referencing of coaches out of season.
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All-Pro [779]
TigerPulse: 95%
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I'll take a shot. We made two very average QB's (Miami, NC state) look like
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is that you, Mrs. Goodwin?*** ] |
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MVP's. linebackers constantly out of position. lack of aggressiveness (we are winning LOS sheerly by talent) in those 3-4 sets. vs FSU when wiggin's goes out, put his backup on an island with no safety help and was promptly scored on. I would be willing to give him one more year if he goes to the booth...he either can't see/comprehend what's happening or has no good eyes in the booth.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I'll take a shot. We made two very average QB's (Miami, NC state) look like
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:43 PM
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Exactly how did we make those QBs look like MVPs?
Miami game: After 2 overtimes Miami totaled 360 yards offense, only 150 passing and threw an interception. The defense gave up 17 points in regulation. 10 of those points came in the 4th quarter because our defense was exhausted because Miami had the ball for almost 38 minutes of regulation.
NC State game: NC State finished the game with 200 yards of offense. 70 were on 1 play where the QB threw an 8 yard pass and we missed a tackle. NC State also has a 50 yard run. On the other 43 plays we gave up 80 yards. Total points given up by the defense, 17.
Where are these MVP-like performances you are referencing?
You say the defense is winning on sheer talent. That's part of my point. The Clemson defense has not fallen off in terms of performance or talent from the previous standard.
I'm sure you remember Venables defenses never missed tackles, got out of position or gave up points but I can assure you it happened.
Goodwin has improved since year one in areas where he struggled at times in 2022 and I like what the defense has done so far this season. He also has the #1 LB in the country committed to come to Clemson.
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Oculus Spirit [40688]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2015
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Good one Ms Brownell!
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to Is that you, Mrs. Goodwin?*** ] |
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Way to redirect and use humor instead of any logic to disagree with what he said. Whether or not I agree he took the time and had a well thought out post. And you did not. Not uncommon.
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CU Medallion [19084]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2009
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A difference between Brad and Dabo when things go south?
Nov 2, 2023, 12:57 AM
[ in reply to Is that you, Mrs. Goodwin?*** ] |
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Brad calls out a player, while Dabo calls out a Tyler.
Wes is killing it, Troll, and you know it.
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Gridiron Giant [16038]
TigerPulse: 98%
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I mean, we lost to NCST and Pitt in 2021 and played a ton of close
Nov 1, 2023, 1:31 PM
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games that could have gone either way. The old saying "we were just a few plays away" can go both ways. We were a few plays away from being 6-6 in 2021.
I don't think there is a huge difference in this team vs last year vs 2021. But it's a pretty clear decline from 2015-2020.
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Gridiron Giant [16038]
TigerPulse: 98%
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OK. I guess your saying it's an offensive decline. I agree with that.
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:34 PM
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Defense has for sure been good enough to win every game.
In fact, I can't believe our defense hasn't given up considering all of the turnovers and lack of scoring by the offense. it has to be frustrating .
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All-In [10515]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Joined: 2021
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Our 2023 offense is the worst since Dabo became HC
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:47 PM
[ in reply to I mean, we lost to NCST and Pitt in 2021 and played a ton of close ] |
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Our offense this year is the worst since Dabo became our HC.
Even in the 2010 season, our offense showed some functionality, and didn’t turn the ball over so much.
Also, our 2010 schedule was far more challenging than this year’s schedule.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Our 2023 offense is the worst since Dabo became HC
Nov 1, 2023, 11:45 AM
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In reality the only difference between this offense and 2010 has been the turnovers.
Ironically, that offense also surrounded a highly thought of QB who for one reason or another all of a sudden lacked poise and feel for the game.
At least Cade is young and has maybe a small chance to settle down as a veteran vs Parker being on the way out the door as a veteran.
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Oculus Spirit [41854]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:46 PM
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Outstanding points. I always enjoy your posts.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:57 PM
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Thank you!
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Paw Master [17275]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Will you at least admit the offense has been in decline...that would be a start***
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:48 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Will you at least admit the offense has been in decline...that would be a start***
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:01 PM
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I think I did.
The line about the offense being garbage was not limited to this season.
I will say that we have thrown gasoline on that fire this year however with the atomic turnovers vs just being boring and lacking playmakers as we did the couple of season before.
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Paw Master [17275]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Yes, I would imagine this is rock bottom for our offense***
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:26 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Yes, I would imagine this is rock bottom for our offense***
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:44 PM
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I sure hope it is!
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Paw Master [17275]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Joined: 2003
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You and me both***
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Nov 1, 2023, 5:12 PM
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110%er [3625]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:49 PM
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Its not a false narrative. You can see it on tbe field. It was obvious.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 1, 2023, 2:11 PM
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You can look at Clemson's defense so far this season and say that it is not talented, hasn't performed well and doesn't measure up to the defensive product average from 2012-2021?
I use those years because that is when Venables was the DC.
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Orange Blooded [4083]
TigerPulse: 100%
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So you say our offense is 4-4 and defense is 8-0?
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Nov 1, 2023, 1:55 PM
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While I certainly agree - and have stated several times- that our problems are almost entirely offensive We are still 4-4 midseason. And that is a decline from recent years
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: So you say our offense is 4-4 and defense is 8-0?
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:08 PM
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I didn't assign 8-0 to our defense.
I said our defense is very much worthy of praise and should not be included in talks of there being a major drop-off in the program.
Clemson's defense this season to this point has been very much in line with, if not better than, it's previous conference championship and playoff defenses.
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CU Medallion [19084]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: So you say our offense is 4-4 and defense is 8-0?
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Nov 2, 2023, 1:05 AM
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A problem with the reality you are sharing is it doesn't fit the NIL, portal, friends and family, experiment, stubborn Dabo narrative that is 'so obvious' to many and trolled out by others. How could one whole half of a team be top 10 and delivering, and only the other half be down because of all the above? It's almost like you have to look somewhere else than the 'obvious' to identify our issues there.
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Freshman [-92]
TigerPulse: 34%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:01 PM
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"'Clemson's 3 year decline' is a false narrative."
It's not a "narrative." It's an objective fact. Three years ago Clemson was a perennial national title contender. This year Clemson is an unranked joke struggling for bowl eligibility.
THAT IS A DECLINE
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Clemson Icon [24892]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Tell 'em 2-6 coot. No one knows losing better than you.
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:04 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative. ] |
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Last year Clemson finished with 11 wins, an ACC title and was only kept out of the playoff by a turnover fest vs scar that strangely resembles this season's effort.
This season is a decline in record. That part is objective.
Last season Clemson was a title contender until game 12.
I'll take that every year.
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Freshman [-92]
TigerPulse: 34%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 1, 2023, 2:35 PM
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"Last season Clemson was a title contender until game 12."
Most of us preferred Clemson being a title contender until game 15. That's why Dabo is getting paid a tenth of a billion dollars.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:45 PM
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I can't continue this discussion with you if you think $11 million is a tenth of a billion.
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Freshman [-92]
TigerPulse: 34%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 1, 2023, 3:57 PM
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Dabo Swinney's total current contract value is $115 million. That is more than a tenth of a billion dollars.
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Clemson Sports Icon [58794]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Paw Warrior [4601]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
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Nov 1, 2023, 2:33 PM
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2 turnovers per game is not even a high number. We have had more and gotten better results in the past. Blaming turnovers is not even close to the problem. We lack playmakers and explosiveness at the skill positions and our OL provides no consistency in any blocking schemes. Also our QB plays like a high schooler with no ability to make reads and perform basic footwork. But yeah the defense is pretty good for 35mins or so. Unfortunately we are asking them to play 40+. We have gotten worse every week since the last presidential election.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 1, 2023, 2:47 PM
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I am not saying turnovers are the only offensive problem.
I am saying the catastrophic turnovers are giving the defense a bad name because it is affecting the overall points allowed statistic.
I called offense garbage and said it has fallen off in more ways than I can count.
Not defending the offense at all with my post.
I'm sticking up for the defense and for Clemson football as a whole because only the offense has been as bad as everyone is saying the team is.
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Tiger Spirit [10001]
TigerPulse: 57%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 1, 2023, 2:35 PM
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I didn't spend the time to read all of your post but if the goal is to make the Playoffs, we are most certainly in year 3 of a decline. It all depends on the objective.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 1, 2023, 2:51 PM
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The goal is to give the defense credit for continuing to play at a high level through the last 3 seasons when the offense has done so much to let them down.
You should try reading.
To be clear based on the bar you are setting, I would say Clemson's defense has played playoff caliber football through 8 games this season.
They also played maybe a tic below program standard last season, but they still played well enough to have put an average Clemson offense in the playoff.
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Letterman [153]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 1, 2023, 4:05 PM
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We brought in Joe Ngata and Frank Ladson in 2019 and in that moment our WR recruitment has gone to hell ever since.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 2, 2023, 11:20 AM
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On a high school field those guys looked to be every bit at the level of the guys they were meant to replace.
Injuries were a major reason their path didn't go that way, but I am sure there is a lot more to it than that.
Unfortunately as fans all we can do is guess as to what the other reasons were for their lack of "5-starness" because none of us know for sure.
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Clemson Sports Icon [55798]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
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Nov 1, 2023, 5:27 PM
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I somewhat agree with you. Great points. But I've got food for thought for you. I peck so slow, so it may take me a while. But I'd truly appreciate your take.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 2, 2023, 11:21 AM
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Still pecking?
Just kidding.
I've love to get your thoughts.
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Asst Coach [816]
TigerPulse: 100%
23
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 1, 2023, 11:16 PM
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I like this post. Some stuff in here I could argue but I like the clarification of the narrative and will prob use this more myself.
You got me curious and I want to go look it up now, I assume our turnover margin this year is much worse than last couple, due to how many turnovers our offense has had - and to your point, they’ve often been soul crushing and many times cost immediate points.
Are our defensive turnovers/takeways also down? Seems like they are. But that’s purely based off my memory which isn’t much better than our offense right now.
Not at all taking shots at the points you made in your post. Just curious if you were aware.
Good post. Go Tigers!!
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
1
Nov 2, 2023, 11:26 AM
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I scrolled through some of the numbers yesterday when I was checking to make sure I wasn't an idiot for thinking the defense was playing well.
We have forced 12 turnovers this season which puts us roughly middle of the pack in terms of takeaways.
We have fumbled 16 times and lost 10 if I remember correctly and we have thrown 5 interceptions.
The fumbles lost is second to last in the country behind only Nebraska I believe.
-3 in turnover margin.
Obviously Clemson has had seasons with more turnovers than this year.
The two major differences compared to 2016 for example are that we currently don't have the playmakers to come back out and put up points to negate the turnover and this season has seen an absurd number of turnovers that directly take points off the board or put points on the board for the other team or BOTH.
It's the points lost from turnovers that is the awful statistic this season.
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CU Medallion [19084]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 13919
Joined: 2009
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Pretty spot on there. When a poster gets on the Wes bashing train
Nov 2, 2023, 12:47 AM
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it kinda discounts most else they have to offer.
I mean, we lost a game Saturday where outside of 2 big plays, we gave up just 80 yards of offense to the opponent. 80 freaking yards. How many possessions did we have with that and what did we do with them? A ton of nothing other than handing them 7. I've really been shocked at how inept our offense is this season, especially considering the talent level that we've recruited there these past years and the healthier group overall than seasons past.
If there's one thing that stands out this season, it's lack of on field leadership on that side of the ball. Sure there may be confidence and cool, but I don't see the leadership there. Actually, the last time we really saw leadership there was Ship's freshman season when he got healthy mid-season and literally carried us to a 6-0 finish. Outside of being angry at times and acting fiery on the sidelines, I don't see it on the field like I did earlier. CK might have everyone's respect, but I don't see him willing those around him to pick it up, or any other offering that to him really. That's been part of our secret sauce on both sides of the ball during our big run but it's definitely been missing on the O side, and it's really glaring today.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
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Re: Pretty spot on there. When a poster gets on the Wes bashing train
Nov 2, 2023, 1:54 PM
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I completely agree with your last paragraph.
Our offensive talent is currently greater than the sum of its parts because something is missing.
Confidence, swagger, fundamentals, leadership or something else?
Who knows and maybe it's a combo of several of those things.
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110%er [3625]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 2, 2023, 7:39 AM
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Its absolutely true and its withoutvquestion if youbwatched the games. The product in the field, especially offensively has been worse for 3 years. There is no reason to even be in denial. This season isnt even shocking after what we saw the two previous years. We wont be great next year either. We are two years away.
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110%er [3960]
TigerPulse: 80%
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If you have cardiac issues but no other medical problems
Nov 2, 2023, 11:24 AM
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your still in poor health.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
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Re: If you have cardiac issues but no other medical problems
Nov 2, 2023, 1:58 PM
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If your heart is strong (Clemson defense) but your brain (Clemson offense) is malfunctioning and keeps forcing your hand to touch the hot stove, then you are going to live for a long time but be miserable in the process.
Unfortunately the recent trend has been for the brain to make the hand stay on the stove even while getting burnt. It's not life threatening but it's got the whole body in the hospital.
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MVP [517]
TigerPulse: 97%
19
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 2, 2023, 11:36 AM
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6 straight playoff appearances where we were clearly a top 4 team
3 straight years not sniffing the playoffs.
We had pretty good teams in 2021 and 2022 that largely benefited from easy schedules. Even this year’s team at 4-4 isn’t terrible see +3.5 against a good ND team.
We have gone from elite to pretty good. Both periods were at least 3 years.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 2, 2023, 2:03 PM
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I know it was a bad, unacceptable loss, but Clemson was a 1 point loss in the last regular season game from being in the playoffs last season.
I'm pretty sure that was sniffing it.
Again, unacceptable loss, but staying in the playoff hunt until the final week is not the horrible season that everybody would love to believe it was. To my point though, that season was largely carried by the defense even in its worst year in the last 7 or 8 seasons.
This year the defense has returned to expectations so far, but the offense is somehow worse.
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Redshirt [96]
TigerPulse: 69%
10
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Re: "Clemson's 3 year decline" is a false narrative.
Nov 2, 2023, 2:33 PM
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I have seen it written in many different places and too many times on Tigernet to even count that Clemson has been in a program decline for the last 3 seasons.
That is absolutely untrue.
Please spare me the history lesson or the game recaps because I'm aware of what's been happening, and I'm aware of all of the talking points that people are using.
"Even the wins were ugly in '21 and '22."
"Clemson is 4-4."
"It's so obvious the talent isn't there anymore."
There is one major thing that fans, reporters and people in general are getting wrong when evaluating the program.
Clemson's offense and Clemson's defense are both aspects of the program.
Clemson's offense has gone to absolute garbage in terms of playmaking ability, fundamentals, turnovers and many other things.
On the other hand, Clemson's defense continues to carry the torch and until this season has been able to keep the program in the national picture. Yes in 2021 and 2022, Clemson was still in the national picture even if it didn't end up in the playoffs.
The talent is still there on defense and not just with the older players who are heading out the door. Parker, Woods and Barnes are talented players who will be leading the defense for a few years moving forward and there are more talented players on the way to help them.
Why hasn't Clemson's defense been able to keep the program in the national picture this season?
Because the offense has given up an unprecedented number of points while the OFFENSE is on the field.
In 2021 and 2022, Clemson's offense was boring but it let the defense have a chance most of the time. A great exception was last season's Notre Dame game.
In Clemson's 4 losses this season there have been 9 turnovers.
In those 4 losses Clemson's defense has given up 28, 17, 17 and 17 points in regulation. Even further some of those points, while scored with the defense on the field, were set up by turnovers by Clemson's offense.
If you blindly ask most fans, they would expect their team to go 3-1 at worst in those 4 games based on the points allowed statistic.
Clemson's defense does have faults and they are not perfect, but they are certainly not part of some downward spiral for the program.
Moving forward, please correctly phrase it as an offensive decline for the Clemson Tigers.
That decline must be fixed if the team wants to get back on track, but in the meantime please give the defense the respect that they are doing their best to earn each and every week!
Remember... we're only a couple of plays from being undefeated
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